Pre-Game Talk: 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread Part 2

[NYR Viper]

http://www.hockeyfights.com/leaders/teams/1/reg2013

The Blackhawks had 16 fights last season, or tied for the third fewest in the NHL. If this team fails it won't be because of a lack of fighters.

There are different ways to win in this league. The Rangers will not be as skilled as the Hawks.

I hate staged fights, but I'd like for our players to stand up for one another if someone gets Carcillo'ed. That has more to do with a team mindset than fighting ability.

This is all I ask for.

That's why you have Dorsett and hopefully Asham.

I am hoping Asham is no where near this team, and I like players who will stand up for their teammates.

as much as I love fighting in hockey, I'd rather have guys who can play the game well like D.Moore and Pouliot than traffic cones like a McGrattan or a Rupp. NYR are still a very hit-happy team and will still be really hard to play against, even if they don't fight like 10 times a game. If they stand up for eachother and don't take cheapshots from another team lightly, I'll be more than pleased.

And yes I know it'd be lovely to have guys who can play + fight, but those guys are incredibly hard to find, and tend to be very expensive. The one guy that fits that mold I'd have liked this offseason was Kyle Clifford. Other than that, we better start drafting our own.

I would never ask for a traffic cone, all I am asking for is another middle weight guy who can actually play the game.

 

[eco's bones]

I've always seen Girardi as an OK #2 who needs a good partner.

I was then compelled to analyze just how much he has been carried by McD/Staal over the past three seasons. The results were quite surprising. Though I guess it is in line with Girardi being one of the worst breakout defencemen in the league.

Let's just say I'm in the "If Girardi demands more than $4M/year, trade him" camp.

Defensemen who can play the minutes Girardi plays are pretty rare these days. To play the minutes-to play physical and to make very few trips to the penalty box--to play with assorted hurts but miss very few games. To be always out on the ice against the best players in the league. That's dependability. Coaches love dependability. He is our best right side guy and good right side guys are harder to find than good left side guys. Girardi might not be quite on the level of McDonagh or Staal but he is still very very good.

As for the notion that he plays worse with Del Zotto--that's not just on Girardi--that's on Del Zotto too. The better defense partner you play with the better results you should have. McDonagh and Staal by the way both love playing with Dan.

Statistics don't always tell the whole story. Sometimes I think people already have their conclusions and just need to find and arrange the evidence in the best way that supports their argument.

 

[NYR Viper]

Girardi better be back. There will be teams lined up for his services. He moves well, is solid positionally, plays a ton of minutes and is a shut down physical defenseman who just turned 30. Keep him, he is a leader in that room.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Viper for what it's worth I agree with you on everything except Asham. Don't hate him as a spare. Pretty easy for the Hawks to rely on skill with their top 6 anchored by Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp etc. It's been beaten to death though and it is what is.

I think everyone can agree that a John Scott type should be nowhere near this team. A (cheap) Prust, a Kyle Clifford, hell even a Dubinsky would do wonders, in my opinion.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

I am hoping Asham is no where near this team, and I like players who will stand up for their teammates.

He was fine last year. Actually was better than fine for a 4th liner. Don't understand the uneccessary hate for him.

I would never ask for a traffic cone, all I am asking for is another middle weight guy who can actually play the game.

Who do you propose that is a realistic option?

 

[NYR Viper]

He was fine last year. Actually was better than fine for a 4th liner. Don't understand the uneccessary hate for him.

Who do you propose that is a realistic option?

It's not unnecessary hate, the guy can't keep up.

I don't venture to guess who is available via trade right now but I'm sure there must be someone.

Cal Clutterbuck was available in the off-season. So was Kyle Clifford reportedly.

If the team can not develop their own of these types of players then they have to go out and get them. This has been an issue for a while. It's why they targeted Prust and Dorsett and Avery. They can't seem to develop their own guys who can play the game and add an edge and a spark to the team by dropping the gloves.

 

[NYR Viper]

Viper for what it's worth I agree with you on everything except Asham. Don't hate him as a spare. Pretty easy for the Hawks to rely on skill with their top 6 anchored by Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp etc. It's been beaten to death though and it is what is.

I think everyone can agree that a John Scott type should be nowhere near this team. A (cheap) Prust, a Kyle Clifford, hell even a Dubinsky would do wonders, in my opinion.

I agree it has been beaten to death. I just look around and it boggles my mind that many teams seem to have players who can play the game and stand up for their teammates at the same time except for the Rangers. That's why Dubinsky was loved for so long. The Rangers have not been able to develop even an adequate power forward in years.

 

[nyr2k2]

I love Cal Clutterbuck (sucks he went to the Island) but he actually has only fought twice in the past two seasons.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Girardi better be back. There will be teams lined up for his services. He moves well, is solid positionally, plays a ton of minutes and is a shut down physical defenseman who just turned 30. Keep him, he is a leader in that room.

I like Girardi, but I have a feeling somebody is going to pay him stupid money and I hope its not the Rangers.

 

[NYR Viper]

I love Cal Clutterbuck (sucks he went to the Island) but he actually has only fought twice in the past two seasons.

Wow, I must have been thinking of him earlier in his career. I know he is similar to Callahan in his style of play.

I know I have beaten this topic to death and many people don't agree with it even needing to be discussed, but I just know with the division they play in and the teams they will be facing A LOT this year, Dorsett will not be enough. I fear dressing Bickel just for his "toughness" because the guy is not a NHL caliber d-man.

I should also note that it irks the **** out of to look at the Habs and see Prust, Moen, Gorges, Tinordi, Parros after all of their years of being so small and skilled.

 

[NYR Viper]

I like Girardi, but I have a feeling somebody is going to pay him stupid money and I hope its not the Rangers.

I'm hoping it doesn't get to that point. 4-5 years @ 4-5 million/season and be done with it. Well worth it. Give him 5 years and then when his contract is up, so is McDonagh's. It opens up a lot of cap space if necessary to keep Mac and Girardi will be in his upper 30's

 

[16 To Stanley*]

It's not unnecessary hate, the guy can't keep up.

I don't venture to guess who is available via trade right now but I'm sure there must be someone.

Cal Clutterbuck was available in the off-season. So was Kyle Clifford reportedly.

If the team can not develop their own of these types of players then they have to go out and get them. This has been an issue for a while. It's why they targeted Prust and Dorsett and Avery. They can't seem to develop their own guys who can play the game and add an edge and a spark to the team by dropping the gloves.

Clutterbuck is more of a Callahan type with less skill. Dom Moore is an edgy player. So are you talking about fighters now or edgy players?

Kyle Clifford is going to take overpayment.

I really don'tt hink you watched Asham last season.....he was good. He's a fourth line player. Effective on the boards and has a good shot. Completely disagree with your assessment of him. I absolutely despised the Asham contract when he was signed, but his play last year made me warm up to him.

His injury was one of the big reasons our fourth line ended up being a disaster for most of the season.

 

[wolfgaze]

When is the next preseason game?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'm hoping it doesn't get to that point. 4-5 years @ 4-5 million/season and be done with it. Well worth it. Give him 5 years and then when his contract is up, so is McDonagh's. It opens up a lot of cap space if necessary to keep Mac and Girardi will be in his upper 30's

Uhhuh, sounds nice.

What happens when some other team dishes out an offer of 6 years/$5.5M per?

 

[NYR Viper]

Clutterbuck is more of a Callahan type with less skill. Dom Moore is an edgy player. So are you talking about fighters now or edgy players?

Kyle Clifford is going to take overpayment.

I really don'tt hink you watched Asham last season.....he was good. He's a fourth line player. Effective on the boards and has a good shot. Completely disagree with your assessment of him. I absolutely despised the Asham contract when he was signed, but his play last year made me warm up to him.

His injury was one of the big reasons our fourth line ended up being a disaster for most of the season.

He is beyond slow. I watched him. This team is going to be based on speed, it's incredibly evident when they sign guys like Moore and Pouliot and want Kreider to thrive.

Haley is the more effective energy player at this point in their careers.

 

[NYR Viper]

Uhhuh, sounds nice.

What happens when some other team dishes out an offer of 6 years/$5.5M per?

Sign him before he hits UFA and if he doesn't accept then don't give him that money. I wouldn't go beyond 5 years for Girardi because of his style of play.

If he won't re-sign, trade him. Don't let him walk for nothing. Awful asset management.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

He is beyond slow. I watched him. This team is going to be based on speed, it's incredibly evident when they sign guys like Moore and Pouliot and want Kreider to thrive.

Haley is the more effective energy player at this point in their careers.

This team is going to be based on speed, but he isn't walking in mud. He skates fine enough, actually better than i expected him to.


You're talking about playing Bickel for toughness. Talk about slow.

I'm not going to agree with you on this. I think Asham is an effective fourth line player. I thought he was one of the better bottom 6 guys last season, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Sign him before he hits UFA and if he doesn't accept then don't give him that money. I wouldn't go beyond 5 years for Girardi because of his style of play.

If he won't re-sign, trade him. Don't let him walk for nothing. Awful asset management.

This might be the only time Dan Girardi tastes free agency in his life -- certainly the only time in his prime.

Its very difficult to negotiate away the ability to test the market. Im hoping your scenario comes true, but I doubt it does.

 

[NYR Viper]

This might be the only time Dan Girardi tastes free agency in his life -- certainly the only time in his prime.

Its very difficult to negotiate away the ability to test the market. Im hoping your scenario comes true, but I doubt it does.

Maybe not, but if they had seriously negotiated with him this past off-season, I am guessing they could have gotten something done. If he walks for nothing I am going to be pissed. Same with Callahan.

 

[NYR Viper]

This team is going to be based on speed, but he isn't walking in mud. He skates fine enough, actually better than i expected him to.


You're talking about playing Bickel for toughness. Talk about slow.

I'm not going to agree with you on this. I think Asham is an effective fourth line player. I thought he was one of the better bottom 6 guys last season, especially in the playoffs.

I said I DON'T want to play Bickel for his toughness because he is awful.

Asham goes the same speed as Rupp, and Rupp was too slow last year.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Maybe not, but if they had seriously negotiated with him this past off-season, I am guessing they could have gotten something done. If he walks for nothing I am going to be pissed. Same with Callahan.

This regime under Sather doesnt have the balls or the forecasting ability to trade those 2 before they potentially hit the open market for an overpayment.

My guess? Both stay, but at a hefty price.

 

[NYR Viper]

This regime under Sather doesnt have the balls or the forecasting ability to trade those 2 before they potentially hit the open market for an overpayment.

My guess? Both stay, but at a hefty price.

That's another thing I am afraid of.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

That's another thing I am afraid of.

I think we all are. When you break it down, Richards hopeful buyout will free up the funds necessary to retain our core, but at what price?

At what price do you say no to two guys who have been a part of this team since day 1? Two guys who epitomize what it means to be a Ranger?

I'd hesitate to give either guy more than 5M, but we all know both will cost more.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think we all are. When you break it down, Richards hopeful buyout will free up the funds necessary to retain our core, but at what price?

At what price do you say no to two guys who have been a part of this team since day 1? Two guys who epitomize what it means to be a Ranger?

I'd hesitate to give either guy more than 5M, but we all know both will cost more.

I agree. I just want to make sure they don't lose them for nothing...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think we all are. When you break it down, Richards hopeful buyout will free up the funds necessary to retain our core, but at what price?

At what price do you say no to two guys who have been a part of this team since day 1? Two guys who epitomize what it means to be a Ranger?

I'd hesitate to give either guy more than 5M, but we all know both will cost more.

In a sick, twisted way, the easiest thing to have happen would be for the '13-14 Rangers to fall on their collective faces -- making it plainly obvious that this core isn't the answer going forward.

Girardi and Callahan are very good players. But are they key core components of a championship? At a combined price of around $11-12M yearly? Im not so sure.