Prospect Info: 2013-2014 Rangers Prospects Thread *Part III* (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 4/8)

[Raspewtin]

Adam Tambellini scored last night for Calgary.

Mackenzie Skapski won again. He stopped 34 of 35 shots. Ten straight wins for him, on an otherwise unremarkable team. Outstanding. Kootenay only has one other NHL-drafted player, Tim Bozon, a third round pick by the Habs. Skapski is really carrying that team.

Don't forget Sam Reinhart who's played exceptional hockey lately.

Still really impressive, 10 straight wins.

 

[Ola]

The X-factor with McIlrath is of course that he could give us something "else" than what you normally look at. That something else would of course be in the physical department.

Another thing, a kid normally develops along some kind of line at least and you can pretty often pretty early see where someone is heading. The ones that really makes it just keeps heading up in a steady curve from day 1 and never stops, and there is almost no room whatsoever for lack of perfection. I mean, even the real sunshine story's often falls short or if they make it, becomes pretty avg. NHLers.

But, you can learn the NHL game by playing in the NHL, so to speak. And a kid that has some natrual talent isn't necessary without potential in this regard. And McI is special in this regard. Take Calle Andersson for example, he will play extremely well and make it before he is 23-24 or he won't. There is no inbetween. He will never get 4 years in the NHL to learn the trade.

The best example of this is of course Zdeno Chara. Chara has never -- and I mean never -- been even a decent hockey player out side the NHL. Very avg in the WHL. He was a joke when he first got to play on the island. He was not very solid at all when he was 25. And over the years, there are quite many examples of this type of development in the NHL too.

McIlrath got a good wingspan, he is a decent natrual skater, his hands don't suck etc. I mean, in the WHL he was not a stay at home D at all, much more of a 2-way D.

Many D's hit their prime around their 30's. McI got a lot of time left to do the right things and slowly improve.

With that said, I wouldn't say that I am comfortable that he will become a good pick or even help us. Seems like it can go eithery way.

 

[NYR Viper]

Eh, while those weren't certainly weren't indicative of anything positive I wouldn't put too much stock into them as they were goal-based and therefore privy to variance issues. Unfortunately that's all that has been available for the AHL thus far.

Re: McIlrath - he won't be playing in the AHL for 4-5 more years, especially considering that his waiver exemption will expire before that!

But continuing the discussion from the locked thread, I agree with what -31- said there - that while McIlrath may turn into an NHL player it was a bad pick no matter what. There just isn't enough upside. Considering the level of talent that was available - that is a bad pick no matter how you slice it, even without hindsight.

McIlrath's top end potential is basically Derian Hatcher, and while Derian Hatcher was a fearsome top-pairing defenceman pre-lockout, the game has changed since then and that type of defenceman is no longer anything but a third pairing guy on a good team. No matter how much we want it, McIlrath doesn't have the skill to become a Pronger, Weber, or even a Tyler Myers.

I mean we complain about Girardi's lack of skill with the puck - and he is significantly more talented than McIlrath.

No matter how fondly Ranger fans remember the days of a Jeff Beukeboom on the top pairing - those days are gone.

Totally disagree. I'll take a mean, tough top-4 RD any day of the week. Guys that play like him are actually harder to find than people are realizing.

He had considerable upside in his draft year. Big guys take longer to develop. If he were drafted by a team with more holes on defense, he would have been playing in the NHL already.

 

[offdacrossbar]

even im bored of this discussion anymore. its never ending.

GOAL SCORER
tarasenko was touted as a potential dynamic goal scorer. he is. hes proven it. hes also on the youngest player on the russian olympic roster.

18 goals 16 assists 34 total inc 5 ppg and +12 in 54 games played this season. FACT

OFFENSIVE DMAN
cam fowler was touted as a pmd who can rush the puck, control the play offensively and be a pp guy. he is. hes proven it. hes also on the team usa olympic roster.


6 goals 25 assists 31 total +11 in 60 games played this season FACT

dylan mcilrath hasnt played in the nhl yet. he has no stats. he hasnt helped us one bit. hes NOT on the team usa olympic roster.

thats the skinny right there. thats reality as of right now. end of story.

half can say those guys still suck. half can say mcilrath will be better and was the better smarter pick. its never ending.

we just dont know. all i know is this.

we NEED GOAL SCORERS AND A SOLID PMD on this team bad and both those guys would be helping us RIGHT NOW TODAY.

i would not have chosen mcilrath at #10 in 2010.

ill leave it at that.

 

[nyr2k2]

More of this, in here now? Come on, guys, I can't put THIS thread on ignore. Please don't make me abandon the prospects thread.

 

[Raspewtin]

More of this, in here now? Come on, guys, I can't put THIS thread on ignore. Please don't make me abandon the prospects thread.

Honestly, I've given up on defending him. It isn't worth it. The board has collectively decided he's a bust, let them believe it.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Honestly, I've given up on defending him. It isn't worth it. The board has collectively decided he's a bust, let them believe it.

It's not so much that he's a bust as there were far better options.

 

[Bardof425*]

Honestly, I've given up on defending him. It isn't worth it. The board has collectively decided he's a bust, let them believe it.

But he's not. He is the type of player that takes longer to reach his potential. He was the safe pick considering the team's needs. We had MDZ and he was in high regard at the time so Fowler seemed redundant and Vlad could have stayed in Russia and still may go back before finishing his hall of fame career with the Blues. Today, it seems like McI was the wrong choice but hindsight is 20/20 and the future is unknown. So, I would say it's a little early to be passing judgement although to date it appears we could have received more value with that pick. I hope for those who are so sure of themselves that in three years, Fowler doesn't go back to playing like he did last year and Vlad doesn't go back to mother Russia.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Maybe not the best choice but I'm happy as long as it turns out to be a good choice. It's just that some people feel strongly that he will not become even a bottom 6 D man in the NHL. Obviously if that happened then it was a bad pick...one of the worst the franchise has made.

So long as this pick still has the potential to become one of the worst the franchise has ever made it will be brought up.

When he was drafted I was enraged by what we missed out. After watching him and studying his game I became convinced he would definitely develop in about 5 years and be a top 4 RD for us for a very long time. It has been almost 4 years since he was drafted. The END of next year will be 5 years. After the end of next season I expect him to be a top 4 RD going forward.

I need to start watching more games this year. I picked up multiple hobbies this year while dropping cable/DVR and due to a lack of recording ability I have barely watched hockey. 50 bucks a month just to record games? (b/t getting MSG and DVR) yea go ******* yourself cable I'm going out and having a life instead. Maybe...MAYBE I'll splurge for the last month+ PO's and get MSG and/or DVR. Hell the Rangers aren't even on MSG once the PO's start half the time and they don't even bother doing Rangers in 60 if NBC shows the game so what's the point? Stream. Jesus what am I babbling about?

 

[Raspewtin]

It's not so much that he's a bust as there were far better options.

Well, duh there were.

Why ***** about it anymore? We get it. Tarasenko is a superstar and Fowler is Scott Niedermayer II. There's no more points to make.

 

[Raspewtin]

But he's not. He is the type of player that takes longer to reach his potential. He was the safe pick considering the team's needs. We had MDZ and he was in high regard at the time so Fowler seemed redundant and Vlad could have stayed in Russia and still may go back before finishing his hall of fame career with the Blues. Today, it seems like McI was the wrong choice but hindsight is 20/20 and the future is unknown. So, I would say it's a little early to be passing judgement although to date it appears we could have received more value with that pick. I hope for those who are so sure of themselves that in three years, Fowler doesn't go back to playing like he did last year and Vlad doesn't go back to mother Russia.

Oh, please. Stop it with your logic. We're talking about McIlrath here. Only comparisons to Jessiman are allowed.

He's a 6' 5" d-man, big players take longer to develop, defensemen take long to develop.

 

[Greg02]

No matter how you feel about McIlrath, shouldn't the discussion be in the Hartford thread anyway?

 

[Beacon]

Mackenzie Skapski won again. He stopped 34 of 35 shots. Ten straight wins for him, on an otherwise unremarkable team. Outstanding. Kootenay only has one other NHL-drafted player, Tim Bozon, a third round pick by the Habs. Skapski is really carrying that team.

Hopefully that will end the on and off discussion about the need to use the first or the second round pick on a goalie.

We have much greater needs right now.

 

[Beacon]

No matter how you feel about McIlrath, shouldn't the discussion be in the Hartford thread anyway?

Yeah, let's ruin that thread also. Not like we haven't had this discussion there several dozen times with the same arguments on all sides.

 

[eco's bones]

even im bored of this discussion anymore. its never ending.

GOAL SCORER
tarasenko was touted as a potential dynamic goal scorer. he is. hes proven it. hes also on the youngest player on the russian olympic roster.

18 goals 16 assists 34 total inc 5 ppg and +12 in 54 games played this season. FACT

OFFENSIVE DMAN
cam fowler was touted as a pmd who can rush the puck, control the play offensively and be a pp guy. he is. hes proven it. hes also on the team usa olympic roster.


6 goals 25 assists 31 total +11 in 60 games played this season FACT

dylan mcilrath hasnt played in the nhl yet. he has no stats. he hasnt helped us one bit. hes NOT on the team usa olympic roster.

thats the skinny right there. thats reality as of right now. end of story.

half can say those guys still suck. half can say mcilrath will be better and was the better smarter pick. its never ending.

we just dont know. all i know is this.

we NEED GOAL SCORERS AND A SOLID PMD on this team bad and both those guys would be helping us RIGHT NOW TODAY.

i would not have chosen mcilrath at #10 in 2010.

ill leave it at that.

Not hard to be a + player on a team that has the best record in the league. That does not make Fowler a good defensive player--for instance--Del Zotto--a player you've never really like and a player that I haven't cared for in a while was a +20 in the 2011-12 season when the Rangers came up one point shy of the President's trophy. That's a fact too.

Fowler would not have made the Rangers out of his draft year like he did with the Ducks. IMO he would have probably done two more seasons in the OHL. He may have even spent time in Hartford. What's more playing for Tortorella he would not have had the green light on all the time--he would have had to prove he could defend and not play soft all the time. What's more he wouldn't have had Getzlaf or Perry and he wouldn't have had much pwp practice time when Torts's Rangers hardly ever practiced it. It would have been a completely different experience for him if he'd been drafted by the Rangers.

To go a bit further--you're right McIlrath will probably never play for the American Olympic team for more obvious reasons that you didn't mention. So ****ing what?--anyway. I'm with RB when it comes to the Olympics. I'd rather the Rangers players stay home.

 

[Trxjw]

Sheesh. I wish I had complained this much when the Rangers passed on Carlson to take Del Zotto.

It's all a bunch of d*** measuring at this point. The majority of the bashers just want to say they were right and the Rangers were wrong. A portion of the rest just need an excuse to rip the team for something. The reality is none of this will even matter for several years because we just don't know what will happen.

People are really hung up on this idea that the Rangers drafted for need, but the Rangers could have very well thought that McIlrath had the most upside of any player on the board at that time. We won't know if they were right for a few more years. However, I'd say that with Girardi and Stralman's futures in question, and the Rangers potentially facing the loss of one of their grittiest forwards, it's nice to know that there is a mean SOB waiting in the wings.

 

[Jim Ramsay]

There probably were better options to draft at that spot in the draft.....The same thing could be said about pretty much every single draft selection outside of the top 5.

The real shame is that this guy doesn't stand a chance with people around here. People would rather be right about him being drafted too high than have him succeed.


I can't believe this still gets talked about as many times as it does, People around here need to move on from this already...

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The antonym of success is failure.

Case I: If the 1st round pick the Rangers used to pick McIlrath was made with the intention of drafting a boom or bust project with a lot of upside and McIlrath meets or exceeds those expectations, the pick was a success. If he doesn't, then the pick was a failure.

Case II: If the 1st round pick the Rangers used to pick McIlrath was made with the intention of drafting a mid pairing, tough, shutdown defenseman and McIlrath meets those those expectations, the pick was a success. If he doesn't, the pick was a failure.

The problem right now is that Case II appears to be the best case scenario given his current development, and 1st round picks shouldn't be used for the intent laid forth in Case II. Furthermore, two current NHL players that were alluded to in the McIlrath comparison were Zdeno Chara, who was drafted 3/56 in 1996, and Shea Weber, who was drafted 2/49 in 2003, are perfect examples of why teams shouldn't pick a huge project with the 10th overall pick.

Without assigning any pejorative statements to the Mcilrath pick, Merriam-Webster seems to indicate that if Case I was the intent, then the pick was a failure, and if Case II was the intent, then the pick was not a failure. Instead Case II, the more likely scenario, was a poor use of a very important asset, the 10th overall pick in the draft.

What is so hard to understand about this?

 

[Kreider Luvs Goalies]

It kills me knowing that we could have had Fowler who was NHL ready from when he was drafted. I really hope Mcilrath makes the team next year and proves he was worthy of where he was drafted. If he doesn't make the team are we going to make up more excuses claiming he needs more years in Hartford as we have for the past years?

On a side note how has Kristo been playing? He seems to be doing really good considering he's tied for the team lead in points. Is there any chance we see him as a call up this season?

 

[NYR Viper]

It kills me knowing that we could have had Fowler who was NHL ready from when he was drafted. I really hope Mcilrath makes the team next year and proves he was worthy of where he was drafted. If he doesn't make the team are we going to make up more excuses claiming he needs more years in Hartford as we have for the past years?

On a side note how has Kristo been playing? He seems to be doing really good considering he's tied for the team lead in points. Is there any chance we see him as a call up this season?

This is a complete joke. Saying a player needs more time to develop is an excuse now? People are so spoiled seeing 18 and 19 year olds in the NHL. MOST PLAYERS AREN'T READY AT THAT AGE.

Del Zotto made the NHL at 19. Woohoo.

 

[TheRightWay]

Question for all of you: When Dan Girardi broke into the NHL a few months away from being 23, how many of you had him pegged as someone who would eventually be an NHL All-Star and would play first pairing minutes on #1 seeded and Eastern Conference Finals participating team?

Because, unless you did, please kindly shut up about your close-minded assertions of Dylan McIlrath's or any other player's supposed limitations and ceilings. He's 21 and is in his first full professional season. We're not going to know for a while how that pick turned out. Same with most defensemen picked in 2010. Maybe he becomes the next Chara. Maybe he becomes the next Dale Purinton. I don't know and I'm not going to pretend to know. You shouldn't either, because you don't no matter how much you get off by playing armchair scouting director.

 

[Beacon]

It's all a bunch of d*** measuring at this point. The majority of the bashers just want to say they were right and the Rangers were wrong.

The funny thing is that NONE of them watched Tarasenko, Fowler or MCI prior to the draft. They based it purely on a few reports from THN and other mock drafts. They look at the stats, the height/weight and some statements about speed and hockey sense, then they pretend like they have an opinion more valid than professional scouts.

The even funnier part is that NONE of them are actually watching MCI in Hartford right now. There's a complete disconnect on MCI between those who watch Hartford and those who don't.

 

[Beacon]

The real shame is that this guy doesn't stand a chance with people around here. People would rather be right about him being drafted too high than have him succeed.

That's because these people have no idea about the draft. They think that anyone who's a top-10 pick must be a star. They repeat this again and again.

Never mind that there hasn't been a star drafted at #10 since Teemu Selane in 1988, with Bobby Holik and Antropov as the next best players. Meanwhile, a whole bunch of #10s didn't manage to even crack the NHL on any kind of a regular basis.

But yeah, even though none of the #10 picks over the last 25 years turned into stars, anything less than superstardom by MCI will be seen as failure...

 

[eco's bones]

It kills me knowing that we could have had Fowler who was NHL ready from when he was drafted. I really hope Mcilrath makes the team next year and proves he was worthy of where he was drafted. If he doesn't make the team are we going to make up more excuses claiming he needs more years in Hartford as we have for the past years?

On a side note how has Kristo been playing? He seems to be doing really good considering he's tied for the team lead in points. Is there any chance we see him as a call up this season?

Fowler was not going to walk into a defense job with the Rangers as an 18 year old. Just wasn't going to happen. The Ducks were weak on the blueline that year. That was his opening. Torts would not have put up with his defense issues or his soft play. He would have gone straight back to the OHL. Being 'NHL ready' in the way you use this description is just semantics. Torts expects his d-men to do certain things--until Fowler started doing them he wasn't going to be on the big club.

Question for all of you: When Dan Girardi broke into the NHL a few months away from being 23, how many of you had him pegged as someone who would eventually be an NHL All-Star and would play first pairing minutes on #1 seeded and Eastern Conference Finals participating team?

Because, unless you did, please kindly shut up about your close-minded assertions of Dylan McIlrath's or any other player's supposed limitations and ceilings. He's 21 and is in his first full professional season. We're not going to know for a while how that pick turned out. Same with most defensemen picked in 2010. Maybe he becomes the next Chara. Maybe he becomes the next Dale Purinton. I don't know and I'm not going to pretend to know. You shouldn't either, because you don't no matter how much you get off by playing armchair scouting director.

McIlrath is a lot better skater than Purinton. He's also tougher.

 

[Beacon]

Zdeno Chara, who was drafted 3/56 in 1996

Chara barely played hockey before he was 18. He started at 15 or so and played in some crappy leagues. Nobody knew anything about him. He sent the Islanders a tape of himself skating around the rink and when Milbury saw a 6'9 defenseman who can skate like that, he almost creamed himself.

Most other GMs either didn't get this tape passed on to them because nobody wanted to bother them with some nobody or failed to watch it for the same reason. When Chara was drafted, a collective "Who?!" was asked by everyone.

1st round picks shouldn't be used for the intent laid forth in Case II.

You do realize that outside of the top half a dozen, most first rounders either fail to make the NHL (Beach, Bourret) or become 4th liners or 7Ds (Boyle, Erixon)?