Pre-Game Talk: 2013-2014 Rangers pre-season discussion

[darko]

Every one seems to be worried about scoring goals. While I'll admit the Rangers offense isn't great, the team at ES is fine. Their special teams is what worries me. For the first time in years, I don't think the PK is anything more than average. And the PP? Well...we'll wait and see. If they can just get it to at least 15th, I'd be satisfied, but being at under 20 again would be unacceptable. Can't win in the playoffs with weak special teams.

That's with Callahan and Hagelin out. When they come back our PK will be fine.

 

[Raspewtin]

You're simply in denial if you don't think the Devils will be in the mix for a playoff spot.
.

I guess I'm in denial then . Literally see no chance in hell they make it. They took whatever goal scorers they could find and threw em all together. No chemistry, everyone they signed comes with a big red flag (Clowe-health, Ryder-not good for anything else, etc.) Elias just keeps getting older, Zajac inexplicably sucks now, Henrique isn't anything more than a 50 point player IMO, Loktionov looks good-ish. Literally EVERYTHING has to go right for them to even snag a low seed. Schneider has to hold up the whole season, their forwards all have to score consistently and not get injured, Adam Larsson really has to step up, amongst other things. I just don't have this faith in them that everyone else does.

 

[bubba5]

I guess I'm in denial then . Literally see no chance in hell they make it. They took whatever goal scorers they could find and threw em all together. No chemistry, everyone they signed comes with a big red flag (Clowe-health, Ryder-not good for anything else, etc.) Elias just keeps getting older, Zajac inexplicably sucks now, Henrique isn't anything more than a 50 point player IMO, Loktionov looks good-ish. Literally EVERYTHING has to go right for them to even snag a low seed. Schneider has to hold up the whole season, their forwards all have to score consistently and not get injured, Adam Larsson really has to step up, amongst other things. I just don't have this faith in them that everyone else does.

Funny, that how I feel about the Rangers. I get the feeling that there was a reason why Torts wanted them to be overly defensive and it was because this team is not very offensively gifted. And now AV is trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

 

[LORDE]

Every one seems to be worried about scoring goals. While I'll admit the Rangers offense isn't great, the team at ES is fine. Their special teams is what worries me. For the first time in years, I don't think the PK is anything more than average. And the PP? Well...we'll wait and see. If they can just get it to at least 15th, I'd be satisfied, but being at under 20 again would be unacceptable. Can't win in the playoffs with weak special teams.

Count me in for this category.

I think the PK will be alright... especially if we have a healthy D that includes Staal back to normal. We have some decent two-way guys who can kill penalties.

I just am not scared of anyone on this offense. Nash at times... but that's about it. I hope Stepan keeps progressing but even then... we are basically a one line threat.

WE ALL KNOW HOW THE PP WILL LET US DOWN... So there's no solace there.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Funny, that how I feel about the Rangers. I get the feeling that there was a reason why Torts wanted them to be overly defensive and it was because this team is not very offensively gifted. And now AV is trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

The Rangers have quite a lot of the same issues. Just because its older players vs. younger players doesn't matter. Its about results.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

The top-3 from each division clinch, and then the wildcards go to the next best two teams. So, if the standings look like this, for example:

1. Pittsburgh
2. NYR
3. Philadelphia
4. Columbus (56 points)
5. NY Islanders (54 points)

1. Boston
2. Detroit
3. Ottawa
4. Toronto (58 points)
5. Montreal (57 points)

Toronto and Montreal would make the playoffs while Columbus and NYI miss out.

You seriously think Columbus finishes behind Philly? And with only 56 points?? hahaha

I'd put Columbus ahead of us, even.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The Rangers have quite a lot of the same issues. Just because its older players vs. younger players doesn't matter. Its about results.

There's also a strong history of making moves in a vacuum. The Gaborik trade was made for a Torts lead team. Then they fired Torts. Now they hired another coach who may or may not be well-suited to this team. There also seemed to be a pretty thin coach search and they seemingly picked the best name out there.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

You seriously think Columbus finishes behind Philly? And with only 56 points?? hahaha

I'd put Columbus ahead of us, even.

It was just an example...

 

[True Blue]

There's also a strong history of making moves in a vacuum. The Gaborik trade was made for a Torts lead team. Then they fired Torts. Now they hired another coach who may or may not be well-suited to this team. There also seemed to be a pretty thin coach search and they seemingly picked the best name out there.

I don't know, Singin'. I have a lot of concerns for this year. And AV is one of them. Not sure that his style is conducive the team. I have frightful feelings of the NYRCC returning and accountability leaving.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't know, Singin'. I have a lot of concerns for this year. And AV is one of them. Not sure that his style is conducive the team. I have frightful feelings of the NYRCC returning and accountability leaving.

I believe SBOB's point was that this is a legitimate concern, and one that was not really explored during NYR's typical knee-jerk decision making process under Sather.

 

[JohnC]

It was just an example...

Well your example made it seem that this team can be anything but terrible. Don't let it happen again.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I don't know, Singin'. I have a lot of concerns for this year. And AV is one of them. Not sure that his style is conducive the team. I have frightful feelings of the NYRCC returning and accountability leaving.

Oh, I agree.

I believe SBOB's point was that this is a legitimate concern, and one that was not really explored during NYR's typical knee-jerk decision making process under Sather.

That was indeed my point.

 

[Rangers ftw]

You seriously think Columbus finishes behind Philly? And with only 56 points?? hahaha

I'd put Columbus ahead of us, even.

LOL.

 

[True Blue]

I believe SBOB's point was that this is a legitimate concern, and one that was not really explored during NYR's typical knee-jerk decision making process under Sather.

Agreed. My writing did not accent that point. I share the same concern. The team, as was constructed, was playoff tested and built to win. Albeit, could not compete with Boston. I think that the utter change from Torts to AV is going to backfire. And yes, Sather did not think it all the way through.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Agreed. My writing did not accent that point. I share the same concern. The team, as was constructed, was playoff tested and built to win. Albeit, could not compete with Boston. I think that the utter change from Torts to AV is going to backfire. And yes, Sather did not think it all the way through.

I had a lot questions this summer when the coaching search was happening:

1) I just get the feeling that the Torts firing dwas something the powers that be were planning on.

2) Once he was fired, there didn't seem to be an urgency to get the coaching search resolved.

3) The did some sort of seemingly mandatory kicking of Mark Messier's tires.

4) Interviewed AV but made it seem there were other candidates they were going to talk to.

5) Then, seemed to make a somewhat impulsive move the hire him when Dallas was reported to be interested.

6) This decision was made after an exhaustive search of what, two candidates in person?

So between getting caught flat-footed by having to fire Torts and what seems to be a slap-dash coaching search in which the decision might have been made out of fear of not having a chair when the music stops, combined with Sather's inability to make moves in a vacuum, you have to have concerns with the coach. And the preseason didn't do much to assuage those concerns.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I don't know, Singin'. I have a lot of concerns for this year. And AV is one of them. Not sure that his style is conducive the team. I have frightful feelings of the NYRCC returning and accountability leaving.

I'm with you. Holding out hope. Players like Callahan, Staal, McD, and Lundqvist have to hold that room together.

By far the idea that makes me laugh most is management deriding Torts for not "realizing the game has changed" and making the team "unwatchable". Both may be fair points against Torts, but if Rangers management wants to see an example of not recognizing a changing game they should look in the mirror. "Unwatchable" is what I would consider the losing hockey present during most of Sather's tenure. Pot meet kettle.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'm with you. Holding out hope. Players like Callahan, Staal, McD, and Lundqvist have to hold that room together.

By far the idea that makes me laugh most is management deriding Torts for not "realizing the game has changed" and making the team "unwatchable". Both may be fair points against Torts, but if Rangers management wants to see an example of not recognizing a changing game they should look in the mirror. "Unwatchable" is what I would consider the losing hockey present during most of Sather's tenure. Pot meet kettle.

Unwatchable hockey describes the preseason pretty well.

Where we saw a team that continues to have offensive issues with an added bonus of more defensive breakdowns.

I feel for Vigneault, I really do. The man has a mandate to get this team to play a way they are ill-suited for.

 

[True Blue]

By far the idea that makes me laugh most is management deriding Torts for not "realizing the game has changed" and making the team "unwatchable". Both may be fair points against Torts, but if Rangers management wants to see an example of not recognizing a changing game they should look in the mirror. "Unwatchable" is what I would consider the losing hockey present during most of Sather's tenure. Pot meet kettle.

The same people derided Devils for being too boring too watch. As they won Cups. Torts had a style that was not a feel good approach. I believe that some players chafed and wanted to feel better about themselves. Add in that Sather still lives on his Edmonton days when any line could score at will, and you have what you had. Torts was a breath of fresh air. FINALLY, there was accountability in the room. FINALLY, the team was no longer afraid to get its nose dirty. FINALLY, the players were standing up for each other. FINALLY, the players were all playing for each other.

And now, the team needs to feel better about themselves. And the team needs to be more creative offensively. Hope that I am wrong, but I see bad, bad things. And the preseason made no believer out of me.

 

[JimmyG89]

The preseason was played without HALF of the top 6. Stepan, Cally, and Hags are big players for this team. What I saw is a 3rd line show itself (Brassard, Zuke, and Pouliot) with chemistry and skill. Miller showed he can play as well. To start the season with this:

Richards-Stepan-Nash
Pouliot-Brass-Zuke
Boyle-Miller-Fast
Pyatt-Moore-Dorsett

and when healthy, and I think Miller sticks, and have this:

Richards-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Brassard-Cally
Pouliot-Miller-Zuke
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett

I am not nearly as worried about the team. Defense is great as well. My concern is how long the system will take to be put in place and the players can go out an play in it instead of thinking about where to go and where to be. So far, I do see the puck possession. There have been breakdowns in preseason, but that is where you learn from mistake, especially the young guys.

 

[Levitate]

I had a lot questions this summer when the coaching search was happening:

1) I just get the feeling that the Torts firing dwas something the powers that be were planning on.

2) Once he was fired, there didn't seem to be an urgency to get the coaching search resolved.

3) The did some sort of seemingly mandatory kicking of Mark Messier's tires.

4) Interviewed AV but made it seem there were other candidates they were going to talk to.

5) Then, seemed to make a somewhat impulsive move the hire him when Dallas was reported to be interested.

6) This decision was made after an exhaustive search of what, two candidates in person?

So between getting caught flat-footed by having to fire Torts and what seems to be a slap-dash coaching search in which the decision might have been made out of fear of not having a chair when the music stops, combined with Sather's inability to make moves in a vacuum, you have to have concerns with the coach. And the preseason didn't do much to assuage those concerns.

This is a massive amount of conjecture and personal opinion without a shred of evidence for any of it that ends with it all being presented as fact and the conclusion that "you have to be concerned"

 

[The Sweetness]

Has Boyle showed any of the speed he showed two years ago? He is so much more effective when he can actually skate.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I had a lot questions this summer when the coaching search was happening:

1) I just get the feeling that the Torts firing dwas something the powers that be were planning on.

2) Once he was fired, there didn't seem to be an urgency to get the coaching search resolved.

3) The did some sort of seemingly mandatory kicking of Mark Messier's tires.

4) Interviewed AV but made it seem there were other candidates they were going to talk to.

5) Then, seemed to make a somewhat impulsive move the hire him when Dallas was reported to be interested.

6) This decision was made after an exhaustive search of what, two candidates in person?

So between getting caught flat-footed by having to fire Torts and what seems to be a slap-dash coaching search in which the decision might have been made out of fear of not having a chair when the music stops, combined with Sather's inability to make moves in a vacuum, you have to have concerns with the coach. And the preseason didn't do much to assuage those concerns.

This is a massive amount of conjecture and personal opinion without a shred of evidence for any of it that ends with it all being presented as fact and the conclusion that "you have to be concerned"

Of course it's my opinion. Where did I ever suggest otherwise?

 

[Levitate]

Your phrasing in the final paragraph

Also it's just some outright ridiculous speculating

 

[nrf83]

The same people derided Devils for being too boring too watch. As they won Cups. Torts had a style that was not a feel good approach. I believe that some players chafed and wanted to feel better about themselves. Add in that Sather still lives on his Edmonton days when any line could score at will, and you have what you had. Torts was a breath of fresh air. FINALLY, there was accountability in the room. FINALLY, the team was no longer afraid to get its nose dirty. FINALLY, the players were standing up for each other. FINALLY, the players were all playing for each other.

And now, the team needs to feel better about themselves. And the team needs to be more creative offensively. Hope that I am wrong, but I see bad, bad things. And the preseason made no believer out of me.

oh wow; this is classic NYR HF ********; We're not even into the season yet and already Torts is a saint that was martyred; Slats is a senile old fool stuck in Edmonton; AV is letting the inmates run the asylum; WTF if you're basing your thoughts on that stupid ill defined road trip that Dolan pushed on AV's team relax and take a step back. Nobody gave a shiot about these games, esp the vets. Because the trip was so long and arduous he was forced to bring twice the amount of players he needed or wanted; he could not implement any system, much less what he hopes to accomplish. Nobody wanted to get injured and fortunately no one was. AV put out a mismatched teams and they got beat. The only thing this trip accomplished was he got to see his players in action first hand. I don't know what everyone expected to see, but it was pretty obvious to me that the majority of the players were going through the motions. I'm not too excited about this opening season road trip as it brings enormous pressure to at least go .500

I feel better when they're back at MSG and get into the rhythm of the season.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Of course it's my opinion. Where did I ever suggest otherwise?

Its a new and fun way of arguing here. Take others' seemingly solid opinions based on the most likely scenarios -- then attack that viewpoint as not 100% fact based -- despite the fact that nobody on this board knows exactly what happened.

Might as well shut down the board right now if this informed surmising is argued against.