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OT: 2013-2014 NFL Thread II? (Giants suck; Jets play Monday)

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SBOB is right, they don't value the linebacker position because it's not part of their scheme. Williams is a fine will/cover linebacker and Kiwanuka can play the strongside. This isn't the 80's Giants. This Giants defense is all about the edge rush from the dlineman. For years they've had 3 guys that could go get 10 sacks (Strahan, Osi, Tuck, JPP). The dline makes the Giants defense tick. Unfortunately Tuck is aging, Osi is gone, JPP doesn't look 100%, and Moore, who was a good value pick, is still just a rookie.

Reese knows what he's doing. He's been able to avoid drafting olineman in recent years because they've been such a consistent unit. What you're seeing is what happens when age hits both lines at the same time. He saw it coming and drafted Pugh and Moore.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
It's clear the Giants don't value the LB position. And in their system, I'm not sure they're wrong.
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But the D was its best when Pierce was in the middle & hasn't been near as good since his prime.

The NASCAR D was so good because we forced 3rd down passing situations where we could unleash the rush.
 
silverfish said:
Gonna do some research here just for myself, but figured I'd share the results I find.

Giants drafts since 2009:

'09: Nicks, Clint Sintim (LB), Will Beatty (T), Barden, Beckam, Andre Brown, Rhett Bomar (QB), DeAndre Wright (CB), Stoney Woodson (CB).

A good draft, for the most part. Four of the 7 players drafted have become big parts of the Giants. Two receivers, a OLineman (despite Beatty's struggles) and Andre Brown. Beckam wasn't too terrible either.

'10: JPP, Linval Joseph, Phillip Dillard (LB), Mitch Petrus (G), Adrian Tracy (LB), Matt Dodge (LOL)

After JPP and Joseph - oh my God, terrible. Interestingly enough, Tracy was drafted as a LBer. And I'll say this about Matt Dodge, that dude could kick like a mule but was so ****ing inconsistent. I'm happy Weatherford made it work with the G-men.

'11: Prince, Marvin Austin, Jernigan, James Brewer (T), Greg Jones (LB), Tyler Sash, Jaiquan Williams (LB), Da'Rel Scott (RB)

Outside of Prince and Jernigan....... Williams has yet to develop into much.

'12: Wilson, Randle, Hosley, Adrien Robinson, Brandon Mosley (T), Matt McCants (T), Marcus Kuhn (DT)

Seeing a trend yet?

'13: Pugh (trend breaker), John Hankins, Damontre Moore, Ryan Nassib, Cooper Taylor, Eric Herman, Michael Cox

Outside of Pugh, it's obvious that Reese and the Giants FO do not put a huge emphasis on drafting LBers or O-Line in the top rounds of the draft. I mean, they didn't even pick a linebacker at all in the draft this year! Seemingly, when it comes to drafting OL and LB they shoot for the projects in the later rounds, when it may be time to make a more sure thing in the top round.

I don't think it's too early to analyze some of these drafts. The '12 and '13 drafts can definitely take more time before we start looking back on them and analyzing. Who knows what will happen. I mean, if D. Wilson for some reason never pans out as an NFL running back (knock on wood), that '12 draft is a joke besides Randle.

In my (not so expert) opinion, it's time to switch focus. Go for the OL and LB in high rounds, and go for high risk/high reward types for dynamic positions later in the draft.

I'll maintain that the Giants do have way more holes than OL and LB needs, but drafting at those two positions is a start in the right direction to turn it around.

Draft Clowney, trade JPP for a top linebacker (is that possible? is that even worth it?), run train with a tandem of Clowney, Kiwanuka, and Moore. I love the guys in the middle of the D-line.

This is going off on a tangent now, so I'll just stop.

The point of this post was to show though, that when Giants fans say the FO needs to change their way of thinking, it's in similar terms to these. I think I speak for most, if not all, Giants fans when I say we are quite satisfied with two super bowl wins since 2008 :)

tl;dr - DRAFT MORE LBers and OL IN THE FIRST TWO ROUNDS OF THE DRAFT!
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The trend is Reese does well in round 1(still hate Pugh pick) gets solid players in round 2 & then adds basically NOTHING to the team after round 2.

Take another look at 09

We had 2 #2's & 2 #3's.

We basically got Beatty out of those four picks & 3 backups.

That's terrible IMO.

And while we have Brown now he was cut too.

Reese is average at best.
 
silverfish said:
Draft Clowney, trade JPP for a top linebacker (is that possible? is that even worth it?), run train with a tandem of Clowney, Kiwanuka, and Moore. I love the guys in the middle of the D-line.
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Trade JPP? No. You keep him. You run with JPP, Clowney, and Moore if you get the chance. Kiwi needs to go. They need to try and trade both him and Nicks. Get a 7th for Kiwi and get a 4th or so for Nicks.
 
Jonathan. said:
Trade JPP? No. You keep him. You run with JPP, Clowney, and Moore if you get the chance. Kiwi needs to go. They need to try and trade both him and Nicks. Get a 7th for Kiwi and get a 4th or so for Nicks.
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A 4th for Nicks? Huh? Why not re-sign him? They save money every year on their TE's, use that on another wideout.

Trade Kiwi, I agree. Trade Tuck as well. Trade Webster. Trade Rogers and Cullen as well.

Nicks is a must keep.
 
NYR Viper said:
A 4th for Nicks? Huh? Why not re-sign him? They save money every year on their TE's, use that on another wideout.

Trade Kiwi, I agree. Trade Tuck as well. Trade Webster. Trade Rogers and Cullen as well.

Nicks is a must keep.
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Can't afford to re-sign Nicks and JPP. Have to make a choice there, man. I choose JPP because we already have Cruz and Randle. Would you rather get a 3rd or 4th for him or let him walk for nothing?
 
Jonathan. said:
Can't afford to re-sign Nicks and JPP. Have to make a choice there, man. I choose JPP because we already have Cruz and Randle. Would you rather get a 3rd or 4th for him or let him walk for nothing?
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Neither. I would clear space elsewhere like, you know, Boothe? Rolle? I keep the younger, better player.
 
NYR Viper said:
Neither. I would clear space elsewhere like, you know, Boothe? Rolle? I keep the younger, better player.
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I can see letting Nicks go because don't think his better days are ahead of him and I'm not sure he's ever going to be healthy again.

Considering the surgery that JPP is coming back from I can't write him off yet.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
I can see letting Nicks go because don't think his better days are ahead of him and I'm not sure he's ever going to be healthy again.

Considering the surgery that JPP is coming back from I can't write him off yet.
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I just don't see getting rid of either. Tell Eli to take a paycut or else he will lose his #1/2 WR. It's that simple.
 
NYR Viper said:
Neither. I would clear space elsewhere like, you know, Boothe? Rolle? I keep the younger, better player.
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But we can't/shouldn't even keep him if we get rid of guys like Rolle. You'd just have way too much money tied up into Eli, Cruz, Nicks, and JPP. Just doesn't work when Nicks is replaceable by Randle.

I hate watching 1st round picks leave, too, but it happens all the time with every team. I just don't see how we can fit him with the cap.
 
Jonathan. said:
Yep. Plus, Randle has not been shown to be injury prone at all. Unlike Nicks.
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Nicks is a monster, he should be kept.

SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
He'll have his #1/2 receiver with Cruz and Randle.
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Randle is not as talented as Nicks. Not a good decision to let him go.

Jonathan. said:
But we can't/shouldn't even keep him if we get rid of guys like Rolle. You'd just have way too much money tied up into Eli, Cruz, Nicks, and JPP. Just doesn't work when Nicks is replaceable by Randle.

I hate watching 1st round picks leave, too, but it happens all the time with every team. I just don't see how we can fit him with the cap.
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Tell Eli to take a paycut after this season in which he has thrown 12 INT's already through 5 games.
 
http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/10/7/4812524/giants-vs-eagles-snap-counts-pff-grades

PFF grades are out for the Giants game.

Surprising -- Boothe doing so well. I didn't notice him so it makes sense.

Not surprising -- Eli and Diehl were both putrid and graded putrid. Why the **** do we continue to play a shot vet in Diehl when we need to be seeing how our young OL players do?

Will Hill played well and graded well. Nice to have him back. Stay off the ganja, son. Johnathan Hankins had a great game, too. But, you know, he's under 30 so TC will have him glued to the bench again.
 
NYR Viper said:
Nicks is a monster, he should be kept.



Randle is not as talented as Nicks. Not a good decision to let him go.



Tell Eli to take a paycut after this season in which he has thrown 12 INT's already through 5 games.
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We have zero leverage to force Eli to take a paycut. And while Nicks is great, it's only when he's healthy. I just can't see the Giants paying big money for an injury prone receiver.
 
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