2012 CHL Import Draft

[Czechexpert]

I've also heard that his development hasn't really been on par with his performances couple years back. As you clearly have seen him play, do you feel that he's still a potential 1st rounder or much lower than that?

right now he is late round pick at best IMO

 

[YARR123]

I'm under the impression that he still has a ton of potential, but needs to leave Slovakia for a better development route. He put up PPG in the U20 league while being a15-16 year old, so he's still definitely a top 10-15 prospect in the 2014 draft. When he comes to the CHL next season we will see if he has what it takes to be a good NHL player.

To be fair if he were considered a top prospect he should be scoring at a bigger pace than that imo. The slovak U20 league is way weaker than for example finnish and swedish u20 leagues, and for comparison Alexander Barkov played the whole season in SM-liiga this past season as 3rd line C while being only a month older than Koys. And being a PPG in the slovak u20 league doesn't mean you can go and produce in the CHL right away.

 

[Bjorn Le]

right now he is late round pick at best IMO

You're "reports" don't line up with what everyone else is saying about him, even if he's not the potential first overall pick people thought he might be.

Little obvious that you're biased against him.

 

[zorz]

You're "reports" don't line up with what everyone else is saying about him, even if he's not the potential first overall pick people thought he might be.

Little obvious that you're biased against him.

I don't think so. It's more likely that people thiking otherwise never saw him or are just fans. Hype has great power at HFb.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

You're "reports" don't line up with what everyone else is saying about him, even if he's not the potential first overall pick people thought he might be.

Little obvious that you're biased against him.

Czech Expert has very good knowledge of Junior players in Europe, far far above anything you know. I generally find his insight helpful and far more useful than generic praises we see from many other posters here.

These reports are largely from North American outlets who will in all honestly not have seen much of Koys. We had that one article 2 years ago citing him to be the Slovakian Crosby. All reports from people who watch him play however, are not as optimistic.

Of course, only on HFboards can an Ontario based person whose never seen Koys play, or any of the Junior leagues/competitions he participates in, be valued over a poster who i would spectulate gets paid to watch these events/league.

I usually find the argument "But i've seen him more" to be a redundant one, but in this case, it is absolutely apt.

 

[cagney]

I saw Koys play and I too think he's vastly overrated amongst most here on HF. He's a good player but that whole "Slovakian Crosby" was really way off the mark. I'd be surprised if he ends up an NHL first round pick, though he could be a good junior player at the CHL level and for the Slovak national team in the next few years if he continues to improve.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Czech Expert has very good knowledge of Junior players in Europe, far far above anything you know. I generally find his insight helpful and far more useful than generic praises we see from many other posters here.

These reports are largely from North American outlets who will in all honestly not have seen much of Koys. We had that one article 2 years ago citing him to be the Slovakian Crosby. All reports from people who watch him play however, are not as optimistic.

Of course, only on HFboards can an Ontario based person whose never seen Koys play, or any of the Junior leagues/competitions he participates in, be valued over a poster who i would spectulate gets paid to watch these events/league.

I usually find the argument "But i've seen him more" to be a redundant one, but in this case, it is absolutely apt.

Oh please, stop putting words in my mouth. You're pretty predictable, you do it usually when you reply to people. No where did I say I watched him, nor was I commenting on him, I said that Czech's reports of a "late round pick at best" is the only place you'll hear that from. He's still too far away for anyone to say that about any player playing at a high level.

Those reports are not from North American outlets, almost everything on Koys is from European sources, and I've never heard anyone say "he's a late round pick at best".

And for people saying he was hyped on HFBoards, that simply isn't true. There hasn't been any real discussion on him for a couple years, and no one was calling him a "Crosby", they just said he was well ahead of his age. You can't be overrated when no one is talking about you.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Oh please, stop putting words in my mouth. You're pretty predictable, you do it usually when you reply to people. No where did I say I watched him, nor was I commenting on him, I said that Czech's reports of a "late round pick at best" is the only place you'll hear that from. He's still too far away for anyone to say that about any player playing at a high level.

And what sources indicate that Koys is a likely high end pick? A few articles and rankings from a North American angle, produced by those who very likely have seen almost nothing of Koys or his league?

Your criticizing somebody for a view when your entire opinion is based on outdated and uneducated material from a year or two ago.

And for people saying he was hyped on HFBoards, that simply isn't true. There hasn't been any real discussion on him for a couple years, and no one was calling him a "Crosby", they just said he was well ahead of his age. You can't be overrated when no one is talking about you.

He was definitely dubbed the Slovakian Crosby by a few. How many 13, 14 or 15 yr old Slovakian prospects can you name? Koy has been known on these boards for a few years. To pretend otherwise is ignorant.

Lastly, you suggested that Czech Expert is biased versus Koys. How did one come to this delusional idea?

This argument and discussion is laughable, as it is palpable you have absolutely no knowledge of the player in question or European Junior hockey as an entity. So it becomes rich questioning a much more informed view based on hearsay.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

I doubt many people, except "czechexpert" (albeit I'll be the first to claim he has shown bias in the past) can make a proper judgement of Koyš while he played for Slovakia. Next year, in the QMJHL, and hopefully during the WJC20/18 (but I think Slovakia is still D1A), North Americans can get a good read for his game and can chart his performance in the CHL against others.

It is waaaay too early to write off a 2014 eligible kid, especially one who has some disgusting statistics in the past.

 

[Bjorn Le]

And what sources indicate that Koys is a likely high end pick? A few articles and rankings from a North American angle, produced by those who very likely have seen almost nothing of Koys or his league?

Your criticizing somebody for a view when your entire opinion is based on outdated and uneducated material from a year or two ago.




He was definitely dubbed the Slovakian Crosby by a few. How many 13, 14 or 15 yr old Slovakian prospects can you name? Koy has been known on these boards for a few years. To pretend otherwise is ignorant.

Lastly, you suggested that Czech Expert is biased versus Koys. How did one come to this delusional idea?

This argument and discussion is laughable, as it is palpable you have absolutely no knowledge of the player in question or European Junior hockey as an entity. So it becomes rich questioning a much more informed view based on hearsay.

And what sources indicate he's not? A poster on a message boards isn't a source. You can't prove credentials on the internet.

I'm critisizing his viewpoint because like G2P said he's writing off a kid who's 2 years from being drafted, who was and still is highly thought of.

Just because a player is known years before their draft doesn't mean they're thought to be the next Crosby. It's often the young Euro players that people hear of because they're playing at levels North American kids can't reach (Because of rules).

How can you say he's not biased? You don't know or not, but when he's posting a pretty out there comment about a player so far from his draft, you can't help but think that. And to say Koys probably won't get drafted is a pretty out there comment. 3rd liners from the CHL get drafted, and Koys almost surely is better than them.

Your arguement is laughable, you're trying to justify an absurd claim and you're acting like I'm saying he's going to go high, which I never said. I said that it's an absurd thing, and there might be bias, which is enitrely plausible. Seems like Czechs never have nice things to say about Slovak prospects and vice-versa.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

And what sources indicate he's not? A poster on a message boards isn't a source. You can't prove credentials on the internet.

I'm critisizing his viewpoint because like G2P said he's writing off a kid who's 2 years from being drafted, who was and still is highly thought of.

Just because a player is known years before their draft doesn't mean they're thought to be the next Crosby. It's often the young Euro players that people hear of because they're playing at levels North American kids can't reach (Because of rules).

How can you say he's not biased? You don't know or not, but when he's posting a pretty out there comment about a player so far from his draft, you can't help but think that. And to say Koys probably won't get drafted is a pretty out there comment. 3rd liners from the CHL get drafted, and Koys almost surely is better than them.

Your arguement is laughable, you're trying to justify an absurd claim and you're acting like I'm saying he's going to go high, which I never said. I said that it's an absurd thing, and there might be bias, which is enitrely plausible. Seems like Czechs never have nice things to say about Slovak prospects and vice-versa.

To add, the Sidney Crosby label isn't too far off... They're using Crosby as an adjective to describe his junior dominance à la Crosby; people are getting way up in arms and defensive because they are assuming they are saying he is going to be as good as Crosby. It's actually poor-critical thinking on their part.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

And what sources indicate he's not? A poster on a message boards isn't a source. You can't prove credentials on the internet.

So the reposte to a query is that query back? Brilliant. Again, what sources do you have that Koys is an exceptional prospect, or anything out of the ordinary? There is no doubt Koys is one of the best players in his age group within Slovakia, but ideas and dreams of him being a high 1st round pick aren't entirely likely.

I'm critisizing his viewpoint because like G2P said he's writing off a kid who's 2 years from being drafted, who was and still is highly thought of.

So people aren't allowed to do critical analysis of a player? He's formed an opinion of a player. Something you haven't done. Using rhetoric nonsense like "Oh but how can we know, he is 2 aways from being drafted" is basically a cop out. Czech Expert could be wrong, but at least he has done some critical analysis and decided to form a coherent opinion. You're playing devils advocate for the sake it.

Just because a player is known years before their draft doesn't mean they're thought to be the next Crosby. It's often the young Euro players that people hear of because they're playing at levels North American kids can't reach (Because of rules).

Koys was cited as being a Slovakian Crosby. As in, a prospect dominating at the level within his domestic competition that Crosby did with his.

Young European players get heard of because they play at levels North American plays cannot reach? The majority of European prospects do not play means hockey before 18. Those that do are usually very good players, but it's not as if they are known anymore than the North American equivalent. Barkov, Forsberg, Lindholm etc aren't more well known than the corresponding elite age group talents in North America.

JHow can you say he's not biased? You don't know or not, but when he's posting a pretty out there comment about a player so far from his draft, you can't help but think that. And to say Koys probably won't get drafted is a pretty out there comment. 3rd liners from the CHL get drafted, and Koys almost surely is better than them.

Why would you automatically assume a negative comment has to be biased, or based upon an agenda? Do you not believe people possess the ability to be critical objectively?

He said Koys would be a late pick. Very few Slovakians get drafted. I'd venture to say it's possible no Slovakian based prospects are drafted this year. It's hardly ridiculous to say Koys might end up being a late pick.

Your arguement is laughable, you're trying to justify an absurd claim and you're acting like I'm saying he's going to go high, which I never said. I said that it's an absurd thing, and there might be bias, which is enitrely plausible. Seems like Czechs never have nice things to say about Slovak prospects and vice-versa.

Everytime you get involved in a debate, you basically attempt to use the exact criticisms towards your original post and utilize them to try and criticise "us". It's always "I never said".

I've read many of Czech experts posts and he has liked some Slovakian prospects and disliked overs. He is also very objective when discussing Czech prospects. Of course it is more glamarous to suggest otherwise, but if you bothered to read his posts around the forum, you'd understand there isn't any underlying nationalistic agenda.

 

[Bjorn Le]

So the reposte to a query is that query back? Brilliant. Again, what sources do you have that Koys is an exceptional prospect, or anything out of the ordinary? There is no doubt Koys is one of the best players in his age group within Slovakia, but ideas and dreams of him being a high 1st round pick aren't entirely likely.



So people aren't allowed to do critical analysis of a player? He's formed an opinion of a player. Something you haven't done. Using rhetoric nonsense like "Oh but how can we know, he is 2 aways from being drafted" is basically a cop out. Czech Expert could be wrong, but at least he has done some critical analysis and decided to form a coherent opinion. You're playing devils advocate for the sake it.



Koys was cited as being a Slovakian Crosby. As in, a prospect dominating at the level within his domestic competition that Crosby did with his.

Young European players get heard of because they play at levels North American plays cannot reach? The majority of European prospects do not play means hockey before 18. Those that do are usually very good players, but it's not as if they are known anymore than the North American equivalent. Barkov, Forsberg, Lindholm etc aren't more well known than the corresponding elite age group talents in North America.



Why would you automatically assume a negative comment has to be biased, or based upon an agenda? Do you not believe people possess the ability to be critical objectively?

He said Koys would be a late pick. Very few Slovakians get drafted. I'd venture to say it's possible no Slovakian based prospects are drafted this year. It's hardly ridiculous to say Koys might end up being a late pick.



Everytime you get involved in a debate, you basically attempt to use the exact criticisms towards your original post and utilize them to try and criticise "us". It's always "I never said".

I've read many of Czech experts posts and he has liked some Slovakian prospects and disliked overs. He is also very objective when discussing Czech prospects. Of course it is more glamarous to suggest otherwise, but if you bothered to read his posts around the forum, you'd understand there isn't any underlying nationalistic agenda.

It's not an excuse, people on these boards (Including you) like to say that someone else said something they didn't to try to support your arguement. You don't even deny it, you just dance around it and do it again.

He said Koys is a late round pick at best, which implies at normal, or at worst, he's not a draft pick.

He's not giving critical analysis, he's saying he's overrated than saying he's not an NHL prospect. I don't see any analysis of his play besides "I've seen him play and he sucks".

If he's going to bash a player who's two years away from his draft and say he's not a quality player, he better have a reason to back it up. As it stands, he doesn't have a reason.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

So people aren't allowed to do critical analysis of a player? He's formed an opinion of a player. Something you haven't done. Using rhetoric nonsense like "Oh but how can we know, he is 2 aways from being drafted" is basically a cop out. Czech Expert could be wrong, but at least he has done some critical analysis and decided to form a coherent opinion. You're playing devils advocate for the sake it.

I'm not? Czechexpert is usually a cynic, you can't say he isn't. Beyond that using absolutes about a player 2 years from being drafted is pretty... Opinionated. You cannot use absolutes when projecting anything. At all. So I don't see how you have an argument.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

It's not an excuse, people on these boards (Including you) like to say that someone else said something they didn't to try to support your arguement. You don't even deny it, you just dance around it and do it again.

Beautiful irony

He said Koys is a late round pick at best, which implies at normal, or at worst, he's not a draft pick.

It implies that he thinks Koy's is a potential late round pick.

He's not giving critical analysis, he's saying he's overrated than saying he's not an NHL prospect. I don't see any analysis of his play besides "I've seen him play and he sucks".

I've seen this particular poster give critical analysis when prompted. He's very knowledgeable on prospects from this particular region ; probably the most informative on these boards. He didn't give much information in this instance. You are entilted to value his opinion in any distinction you wish.

Thus, wouldn't it have been more informative and productive to reply to his post asking for reasons instead arguing for the sake it and trying to look clever. You have no real knowledge of said prospect so instead of coming across as obnoxious, why don't you actually ask?

If he's going to bash a player who's two years away from his draft and say he's not a quality player, he better have a reason to back it up. As it stands, he doesn't have a reason.

He gave his opinion. If you've decided this is "bashing", then you must waste extensive time in real life on debates about many many things.

I imagine he does have a reason by the way ; he has likely seen the player. An odd concept i know.

 

[zorz]

I'm not? Czechexpert is usually a cynic, you can't say he isn't. Beyond that using absolutes about a player 2 years from being drafted is pretty... Opinionated. You cannot use absolutes when projecting anything. At all. So I don't see how you have an argument.

did u notice that he said late round pick at best "right now"? how is that an absolute?

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

I'm not? Czechexpert is usually a cynic, you can't say he isn't. Beyond that using absolutes about a player 2 years from being drafted is pretty... Opinionated. You cannot use absolutes when projecting anything. At all. So I don't see how you have an argument.

He's usually very pragmatic. Such an approach is going to be much more successful in analysing talent.

The bolded pretty much sums everything up. It's his opinion, which he has formed from watching him. What did you expect? A post mapping every possible outcome of the subject's possibilities? He has formed an opinion which he believes ; which has absolutely nothing doing with being absolute.

All you're basically doing is here seeing an opinion and saying "How do you know, you can't predict the future".

 

[Bjorn Le]

Beautiful irony



It implies that he thinks Koy's is a potential late round pick.




I've seen this particular poster give critical analysis when prompted. He's very knowledgeable on prospects from this particular region ; probably the most informative on these boards. He didn't give much information in this instance. You are entilted to value his opinion in any distinction you wish.

Thus, wouldn't it have been more informative and productive to reply to his post asking for reasons instead arguing for the sake it and trying to look clever. You have no real knowledge of said prospect so instead of coming across as obnoxious, why don't you actually ask?



He gave his opinion. If you've decided this is "bashing", then you must waste extensive time in real life on debates about many many things.

I imagine he does have a reason by the way ; he has likely seen the player. An odd concept i know.

No, saying "at best" means at the best of times. So anytime that isn't the best of times, he doesn't think that.

It is bashing because all he said was he was extremely overrated (I don't know why, no one here is claiming something outlandish about him) and he "at best" a late round pick, no reason given. If someone had a well formulated arguement, that's critizism, but saying he sucks with no reason given is bashing.

You can "imagine" a lot of things, doesn't make them real.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

I don't want this getting locked so **** and take this to a PM and stay on topic.

You can't predict how Koys will turn out because things will change.

Now any other major 95's that might come over ? Goalies maybe ?

 

[Czechexpert]

What a debate I caused with a few hard but true(IMO) words...
I´m not biased against him at all, I simply say what I see and think. Everyone else have different opinion on him? Is that the reason I should change opinion on Koys?

I agree that he could be good junior player but will he be impact player next season there? I don´t think so. Actually I think that he is not ready for CHL especially league like WHL. However good junior player doesn´t mean NHL prospect(Tomas Knotek for example).

I´m not cynic, I only call things real names. Could I be wrong regarding Koys? Of course. Can he make big progress and develop into NHL prospect like Tatar? Yes, of course. Actually I would be pleased. I don´t write him off but right now he doesn´t look like more than late pick. If I say late pick at best than I say that I would consider picking him in late rounds. Right now, wouldn´t be the first prospect I changed opinion(both ways) during the process.

I have never said nice things about Slovak prospects? I was the first person who spoken favourably about Martin Marincin and Martin Gernat before others ever heard their names(especially Gernat´s name).

Koys is small(he is not 6´0 at all, he is like 5´9 in reality), soft, not great skater. Has good but not exceptional skills and hockey sense. Useless without the puck and a bit of perimeter player.

A few years ago I was criticized by many here when I said that Tony Rajala is highly overrated player at board and that he probably won´t be player(soft, small, perimeter player, useless without puck). Maybe it´s still too early but it looks like I was right.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Koys hype reminds of Frk hype or Vincour hype. Both guys were going to be top 5 guys and failed to deliver once they got over I can see Koys ending up the same way

 

[smitty10]

Koys hype reminds of Frk hype or Vincour hype. Both guys were going to be top 5 guys and failed to deliver once they got over I can see Koys ending up the same way

Frk didn't fail to deliver at all. He had concussion and as a result conditioning issues this season, but he is a very, very good player and a late first/early second round pick even though he had those problems.

Tomas Vincour may not be the player people thought he might be when he was taken 1st overall in the CHL draft, but he has an NHL future and will likely be a Radek Dvorak type of player who will be in the NHL for the next 10-15 years at least.

If Koys can play as well as these guys he will be a good player.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

Frk just got unlucky, he was great when he played.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The point is Frk is not going to go in the top 5 he might not even go in the 1st round same with Vincour.

 

[smitty10]

The point is Frk is not going to go in the top 5 he might not even go in the 1st round same with Vincour.

Draft position doesn't really matter in the long run. Look at Marek Tvrdon; the Red Wings picked him in the 4th round and he probably should have gone late first, early second, but he lost most of the previous season to injury. That's what's happening with Frk.

Koys likely won't be a top 15 pick, but even as a late first/ second round pick has a decent shot at being a productive NHLer and he's still almost certain to go #1 in the import draft.