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Do Avs Still Trade Rantanen if They Know He Ends up in Dallas

They basically have no picks for -25 and -26 drafts and Landeskog returning will tighten up the cap

They have to address that 2C issue but how will they..

This. And as MacK pointed out last night, they couldn't get past Dallas with the Stars missing their #1D & Robertson...

Not in a good position to improve with external additions nor expect much internal growth. Short of a very favorable summer trade fleecing, this year's team may well be as good as they will be for the foreseeable future. Very good team that will need a lot of things to fall perfectly in their favor to advance.
 
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Lost in the shuffle here… I haven’t looked into this but I suspect Carolina was pissed that Rantanen didn’t want to stay. I have to wonder if them trading him to Dallas was kind of a f*** you to Colorado.
I think Dallas may have given the best offer.

I know this is the Avs thread but if I am Carolina I'd be pissed as well.

Draft picks are not helping this year. Stankoven may progress but he is no Rantanen.
 
I think Dallas may have given the best offer.

I know this is the Avs thread but if I am Carolina I'd be pissed as well.

Draft picks are not helping this year. Stankoven may progress but he is no Rantanen.
They could just try to sign Marner out of UFA
 
I think Dallas may have given the best offer.

I know this is the Avs thread but if I am Carolina I'd be pissed as well.

Draft picks are not helping this year. Stankoven may progress but he is no Rantanen.

The Canes attempted to flip the 1st round picks at the deadline, but it took too long for Rantanen to work out a contract with Dallas, so the deals never happened.

Regardless, the Canes will continue to take their shots. They were (apparently) the second choice of Eichel, Tkachuk, Meier, etc. They’ve already made it clear if Marner hits FA, they’ll throw money at him. They have roughly 30 million in cap space this offseason. If there’s a star player available, they’re going to make a play for them.
 
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The Canes attempted to flip the 1st round picks at the deadline, but it took too long for Rantanen to work out a contract with Dallas, so the deals never happened.

Regardless, the Canes will continue to take their shots. They were (apparently) the second choice of Eichel, Tkachuk, Meier, etc. They’ve already made it clear if Marner hits FA, they’ll throw money at him. They have roughly 30 million in cap space this offseason. If there’s a star player available, they’re going to make a play for them.
I'm going to be real. While discussing a contract with Dallas and all the reports. I'd be calling teams and saying this is what we have. What is available for these assets.

Pretend you and me it is a lousy excuse. I think Carolina was too cheap. I fully believe they were one of the teams offering a 2nd for Brock Boeser.
 
I'm going to be real. While discussing a contract with Dallas and all the reports. I'd be calling teams and saying this is what we have. What is available for these assets.

Pretend you and me it is a lousy excuse. I think Carolina was too cheap. I fully believe they were one of the teams offering a 2nd for Brock Boeser.

The story I saw was that they had a deal set up for Boeser, but it required one of the 1sts they would have gotten from Dallas. And that deal was agreed upon verbally, but by the time the Rantanen deal was finished and Tulsky returned to Allvin with the deal, Allvin had changed his mind.
 
I'm going to be real. While discussing a contract with Dallas and all the reports. I'd be calling teams and saying this is what we have. What is available for these assets.

Pretend you and me it is a lousy excuse. I think Carolina was too cheap. I fully believe they were one of the teams offering a 2nd for Brock Boeser.
Until the Rantanen deal was done they didn't have enough draft capital to put together an offer for Vancouver. No doubt they wanted him and inquired but the Rantanen extension with Dallas took too long so by the time it was done they couldn't make it work with Vancouver. Maybe they did offer a 2nd but they couldn't offer better until they had sewn things up with Dallas
 
The story I saw was that they had a deal set up for Boeser, but it required one of the 1sts they would have gotten from Dallas. And that deal was agreed upon verbally, but by the time the Rantanen deal was finished and Tulsky returned to Allvin with the deal, Allvin had changed his mind.

Until the Rantanen deal was done they didn't have enough draft capital to put together an offer for Vancouver. No doubt they wanted him and inquired but the Rantanen extension with Dallas took too long so by the time it was done they couldn't make it work with Vancouver. Maybe they did offer a 2nd but they couldn't offer better until they had sewn things up with Dallas

Unfortunately none of us are in the room where it happens.

One side shares some another shares some.

The point stands Carolina fumbled as well.
 
Lost in the shuffle here… I haven’t looked into this but I suspect Carolina was pissed that Rantanen didn’t want to stay. I have to wonder if them trading him to Dallas was kind of a f*** you to Colorado.
Oilers definitely weren't willing to pay Savoie+2 1sts for Rantanen. The fact we know they're onto Rantanen means the Oilers will be going big fish hunting. So I'm guessing they prefer to take their chances on Marner if he walks.
 
To my understanding, Rantanen provided a list of 4 teams he would be OK with signing a long term deal with: Dallas, Florida, Edmonton and Toronto. Of those teams, Dallas offered the best deal in return. I don't think it's anything deeper than that.

If I recall, Toronto may have beat close but Marner told them "no." Which pretty much nixed any option they had to make that sort of trade.
 
Cmac watching the third period:

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Some of you Avs fans have insane standards, Rantanen was over ppg in his last 2 playoffs and even went gpg with 7 goals in 7 games. Maybe the team struggled on the PP because they missed his skillset?

To put it in perspective the Leafs core 4 which are a good comparable because Rantanen is clearly better than 2 of them (Nylander/Tavares) and slightly worse than the other 2 at least in the season have gone over ppg 9/40 series and gpg 0/40 series (and they have the same opportunity to do it with all their first round losses, so it being done in only one round isn't an excuse).

Basically Rantanen has put up a performance worthy of 12-13 mill in the last two playoffs alone, forget about the cup win and other playoffs.

Another Avs fan mentioned his game 7 stats as if 2 goals and an assist in 3 game 7s is supposed to be bad. I think winning every decade has skewed your expectations so high that it's no longer based on the reality of the league which is why your GM nickle and dimed a top 10 season player and arguably top 5 playoff performer trying to save 1 to 1.5 mill. As if the difference between an Avs cup and not is some dusty 4th liner signed for 1-1.5 mill and not the core of Mac/Mak/Kush/Rants performing.
The big problem was that he was only able to produce with Mack. When separated and put in another line to drive his own he was never able to. That was the biggest issue for us. Paying him what he asked 14M$ don't know what the last offer (probably 12,5M$?) to play in the same line with Mack was counter productive and it was already noticeable with our depth.

Running a 2nd line of Mittelstadt, Parise and Lehkonen wasn't a recipe of success and would probably had the same exact issue about being a one line team again. Our GM gambled and lost because let's face it alot of experts and fans had Avs winning the cup or going in the finals because they saw that lineup being deep. Every pieces that we hoped was going to be a key for us didn't pan out. The Nelson, Necas (Canes warned about him in the playoffs tho), Coyle, goalie tandem and defense depth. On paper that was probably the deepest team we've had since 2022. I think we're putting too much of emphasis on Rantanen being the key here on why Avs lost when it's much more than that. Does having Rantanen make us beat the Stars? I don't know we've had him in the last 3 meetings and still didn't beat them.

I agree with alot of posters that not signing Kadri was our biggest mistake because we kept trading away our best assets and picks to keep failing on fixing that #2C. If we've signed Kadri we would probably still have Byram and our 1st to be spent on depth. At the end I think Rantanen would still be an Avs. I never thought that Kadri would be the domino that is bringing us down.
 
The salary cap for 2025-26 will rise to $95.5 million. In 2026-27, it is projected to increase to $104 million and in 2027-28, it will again go up to $113.5 million. So to all those saying the Avs are screwed cap wise is not accurate. One season, its tight, then theyre fine again.

Not paying Mikko $12 was dumb if that was on the table. Can they turn around and give that same number to Marner? Sure, but 25-26 they are very tight cap wise and get relief in a big way in 26-27 before Cale is due to be paid. Honestly at this point after losing Mikko, I guess ill root for Marner to come over now.

They'd have to move some combination of Necas, Coyle, Colton, Wood, Girard, and Manson out to fit him in. Its possible, but would essentially be punting away next season playing with very high end players and AHLers.


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The big problem was that he was only able to produce with Mack. When separated and put in another line to drive his own he was never able to. That was the biggest issue for us. Paying him what he asked 14M$ don't know what the last offer (probably 12,5M$?) to play in the same line with Mack was counter productive and it was already noticeable with our depth.

Running a 2nd line of Mittelstadt, Parise and Lehkonen wasn't a recipe of success and would probably had the same exact issue about being a one line team again. Our GM gambled and lost because let's face it alot of experts and fans had Avs winning the cup or going in the finals because they saw that lineup being deep. Every pieces that we hoped was going to be a key for us didn't pan out. The Nelson, Necas (Canes warned about him in the playoffs tho), Coyle, goalie tandem and defense depth. On paper that was probably the deepest team we've had since 2022. I think we're putting too much of emphasis on Rantanen being the key here on why Avs lost when it's much more than that. Does having Rantanen make us beat the Stars? I don't know we've had him in the last 3 meetings and still didn't beat them.

I agree with alot of posters that not signing Kadri was our biggest mistake because we kept trading away our best assets and picks to keep failing on getting that #2C. If we've signed Kadri we would probably still have Byram and our 1st to be spent on depth. At the end I think Rantanen would still be an Avs. I never thought that Kadri would be the domino that is bringing us down.
Wild to bring it backto Kadri but probably accurate. $7 seems like nothing now.
 
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The big problem was that he was only able to produce with Mack. When separated and put in another line to drive his own he was never able to. That was the biggest issue for us. Paying him what he asked 14M$ don't know what the last offer (probably 12,5M$?) to play in the same line with Mack was counter productive and it was already noticeable with our depth.

Running a 2nd line of Mittelstadt, Parise and Lehkonen wasn't a recipe of success and would probably had the same exact issue about being a one line team again. Our GM gambled and lost because let's face it alot of experts and fans had Avs winning the cup or going in the finals because they saw that lineup being deep. Every pieces that we hoped was going to be a key for us didn't pan out. The Nelson, Necas (Canes warned about him in the playoffs tho), Coyle, goalie tandem and defense depth. On paper that was probably the deepest team we've had since 2022. I think we're putting too much of emphasis on Rantanen being the key here on why Avs lost when it's much more than that. Does having Rantanen make us beat the Stars? I don't know we've had him in the last 3 meetings and still didn't beat them.

I agree with alot of posters that not signing Kadri was our biggest mistake because we kept trading away our best assets and picks to keep failing on getting that #2C. If we've signed Kadri we would probably still have Byram and our 1st to be spent on depth. At the end I think Rantanen would still be an Avs. I never thought that Kadri would be the domino that is bringing us down.
The problem I have is that you already won a cup, this formula works. I'm sure 14 would be his starting point and you guys would probably counter with 10, if he signed with Dallas for 12, I don't see why he wouldn't sign in a place he loved for 12-13. Anyways, a formula that works and paying 1-2 million "extra" has to be better than an unknown formula.

But you already won with the core of Rants/Mack/Mak/Kush, yeah Kadri is gone and Landeskog probably won't be the same (Toews is still good), but by messing with the formula not only do you NOT guarantee success (Necas and Nelson are fine, but again even before the playoffs they weren't guaranteed to succeed), you could piss off some of the core in the room who loved Rants.

All teams that win make mistakes, lose good pieces, but trading away an in prime arguably top 5 playoff performer for basically 2 unproven guys (Necas and the money to get Nelson) is insane and it goes back to having too much success. In poker they call it winner's tilt, when you're winning you start doing stupid stuff because you're already so far ahead and up.

Rantanen was traded over 1-2 mill haggling
Rantanen was traded for an unproven piece (ended up basically being two unproven pieces)
Rantanen was easily a top 10 playoff performer (arguably top 5) even before these playoffs

And all of it came back to haunt them in the worst way possible. I brought up Toronto too because the passenger thing doesn't hold weight when you see the struggles 4 fantastic players can have together (surely 1-2 of them could passenger their way into fantastic stats, it hasn't happened in 9 years so far), so even in the worst case being a successful passenger is still infinitely more valuable (as proven by the cup) than the unknown of:

1.Maybe NOT being a successful passenger (Necas is a great player, but proved just being good isn't enough)
2.Maybe NOT being a passenger at all (like Rants proved)
3.Losing the room/a top 5 playoff player in his prime over basically 1-2 million dollars
 
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Unfortunately none of us are in the room where it happens.

One side shares some another shares some.

The point stands Carolina fumbled as well.
For sure. Carolina didn't manage the clock on this well and it ended costing them the ability to make more moves. Boeser would have been a great add but you can't trade assets that you don't have. Maybe they can go after him in free agency if they want him though. It is what it is.
 
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Oilers definitely weren't willing to pay Savoie+2 1sts for Rantanen. The fact we know they're onto Rantanen means the Oilers will be going big fish hunting. So I'm guessing they prefer to take their chances on Marner if he walks.
I don't think the oilers were really an option. How could they make a $12m addition work (maybe more) without losing some serious significant pieces? Edmonton doesn't have the cap space this upcoming year to make this kind of move work.
 
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every teams fan base would love do over trades.

Like the oilers and the Griffen Reinhart trade. Once oiler fans realized that no oiler scout had actually done an indepth report on him since the his oil king days? We knew we were f***ed. What is the oiles do not do that trade and draft Thomas Chabot?
 
The problem I have is that you already won a cup, this formula works. I'm sure 14 would be his starting point and you guys would probably counter with 10, if he signed with Dallas for 12, I don't see why he wouldn't sign in a place he loved for 12-13. Anyways, a formula that works and paying 1-2 million "extra" has to be better than an unknown formula.

But you already won with the core of Rants/Mack/Mak/Kush, yeah Kadri is gone and Landeskog probably won't be the same (Toews is still good), but by messing with the formula not only do you NOT guarantee success (Necas and Nelson are fine, but again even before the playoffs they weren't guaranteed to succeed), you could piss off some of the core in the room who loved Rants.

All teams that win make mistakes, lose good pieces, but trading away an in prime arguably top 5 playoff performer for basically 2 unproven guys (Necas and the money to get Nelson) is insane and it goes back to having too much success. In poker they call it winner's tilt, when you're winning you start doing stupid stuff because you're already so far ahead and up.

Rantanen was traded over 1-2 mill haggling
Rantanen was traded for an unproven piece (ended up basically being two unproven pieces)
Rantanen was easily a top 10 playoff performer (arguably top 5) even before these playoffs

And all of it came back to haunt them in the worst way possible. I brought up Toronto too because the passenger thing doesn't hold weight when you see the struggles 4 fantastic players can have together (surely 1-2 of them could passenger their way into fantastic stats, it hasn't happened in 9 years so far), so even in the worst case being a successful passenger is still infinitely more valuable (as proven by the cup) than the unknown of:

1.Maybe NOT being a successful passenger (Necas is a great player, but proved just being good isn't enough)
2.Maybe NOT being a passenger at all (like Rants proved)
3.Losing the room/a top 5 playoff player in his prime over basically 1-2 million dollars
If we kept the same formula and kept Kadri it makes you wonder how the team would've been after that 2022 cup win. Of course we had the Nichushkin incident and Landeskog LTIR but still I think with Kadri it should've been enough to at least beat Seattle. The problem isn't the fact that we didn't keep Rantanen it's the fact that we never managed to get a proper #2C. When Avs won the cup it wasn't because of Rantanen's production but the depth that produced. We had Burakovsky producing in the cup final, Compher doing good things against Edmonton, Byram who was damn steady in the cup final and Kadri being so clutch. Helm, Cogliano and Sturm also being a perfect 4th line. Sadly we couldn't replicate that. The first two mentionned cost more than 5M$. So it's hard to compare the formula that worked to the teams we've had the following years because it was just a perfect team IMO with everyone on the core being paid around 5M$ and 9M$ . As I said I think people put too much emphasis on Rantanen and not the team as whole. But I still agree with you trading away Rantanen for 2 unproven pieces is too much of a gamble and CMac badly lost in that but who could've predicted that Carolina would then trade him to Dallas.

When we lost to Dallas years before this one we didn't have enough depth we relied too much on Mack and Rantanen. You shut down that line you basically shut down the Avs. This year I think depth was better or should I say Landeskog coming back helped that 2nd line. And I think the Avs was the better team in most of those games but couldn't hold a freaking lead to save their life. I hate going the "ifs" road but here it is : If only the Avs could've held their lead in game 2 and 3 we probably don't even talk about Rantanen.
 
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Original trade had to be tough even with MR playing in the Eastern Conference. To have him end up (apparently long term) on a divisional rival is a real crotch punch.

With hindsight do the Avs just pay up for MR?
If they didn't want an opportunity for him to go to Dallas, they could have just not traded him.

If both Carolina and Colorado made the finals, they'd be playing him anyway.

I'm sure they wish they had a different strategy, but I doubt they would have not traded him altogether.
 
The big problem was that he was only able to produce with Mack. When separated and put in another line to drive his own he was never able to.

How is this true though? If you look at his stats without MacK you'll see he has 52 points in 46 games between 2016-2025.

I can't view the comprehensive game list since most of them are behind the paywall so I'm not of the exact time frame most of those games were played.

btw if someone gets confused about the overall stat here being 76p/79gp that's because it includes Carolina and Dallas stats too so you have to subtract those to get to the Avs number.

 

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