2009 Born for the 2025 OHL DRAFT

I know this isn't a U18 thread, but didn't feel it was necessary to make a totally new thread for it.

Anybody know some of the top guys for the U18 draft that's probably this Wednesday?
 
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What hasn't been spelled out is if 20 teams have passed on you 14 times each, you are not ready to play. Teams have to look for kids who are poised for the greatest improvement. In that department, it's tough to beat a kid whose dad was a pro and the kid grew up watching how much work went into getting there and staying there.
I have watched a lot of drafts over the years and seen some interesting picks and "non-picks", but the gentleman that mentioned the point above is right, if they passed on you 14 times, then they definitely think you need to grow as a player and develop further, or you are not good enough to play at that level at all.

The only point I would make beyond this, is we are doing our kids a disservice by either drafting them, if they are not good enough, or moreover for the ones that deserve to be there but need to develop, we need to give them an explanation, a breakdown of what they need to work on. Leaving them in limbo with "he's just not there", or "I am not sure why he wasn't drafted before the AA kid" is pure rubbish.

This responsibility lies on the agent or advisor to ask the teams and scouts, which is what I strived for as an advisor for years. There is nothing worse than giving a kid false hope he will make it to the big leagues, year after year, watching the draft and his name not popping up on the screen. On the other hand, if we feel the kid needs to grow, develop mentally or work on skating etc., we should be telling the kids just that. It will give them incentive to work harder and maybe turn into a player one day.

Hockey is a great game and we owe it to next generation to make them better people and better hockey players. I know Canada could use this, we are not as dominate as we used to be, and need the knowledge all of you bring to the table, to get these kids to the top.

Final thought, we need to protect hockey in Canada and develop our own, a NTDP program like the US has is a great idea, and we should be sending our best there every year to develop. The NCAA rules have changed the landscape of the draft process and the OHL is a business first, development league second.

God Bless, Old Timer out!
 
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Final thought, we need to protect hockey in Canada and develop our own, a NTDP program like the US has is a great idea, and we should be sending our best there every year to develop. The NCAA rules have changed the landscape of the draft process and the OHL is a business first, development league second.

God Bless, Old Timer out!
No.

The only reason the US still uses the NTDP is because the rest of their junior system is so poor at developing higher picks. The NTDP is there to throw resources at 20 players because they can't be bothered to develop the other 200 plus. The NTDP will continue to pump out high picks but doubt they will be able to say the same for the USHL as a whole. The CHL will be fine without having to resort to an all star team.
 
No.

The only reason the US still uses the NTDP is because the rest of their junior system is so poor at developing higher picks. The NTDP is there to throw resources at 20 players because they can't be bothered to develop the other 200 plus. The NTDP will continue to pump out high picks but doubt they will be able to say the same for the USHL as a whole. The CHL will be fine without having to resort to an all star team.
Some good points in here. What are your thoughts on putting restrictions on the amount of imports allowed into the OHL Draft, like the USHL has? The amount of players drafted this year is crazy, but some really good talent and good for the league.
 
US players are not imports.

The OHL operates in the US. These players come from areas that the OHL draws from.
He was using the USHL's language. Canadians are imports in the USHL. Essentially he was asking if the CHL would ever limit the amount of Americans in the league.

My question is why? Surely pushing out some 3rd and 4th liners so that the level of play goes up for everyone is better that trying be super nationalistic about development right?
 
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The USHL doesn't operate in Canada. I get that the USHL restricts this, but it's a different model. How are you going to restrict the number of kids from Michigan or Pennsylvania when you run teams out of there?
 
I know this isn't a U18 thread, but didn't feel it was necessary to make a totally new thread for it.

Anybody know some of the top guys for the U18 draft that's probably this Wednesday?
Going strictly on stats from Elite Prospects......
(Keep in mind that there are plenty of players in U18 who are scoring close to a PPG or more so without seeing these guys play it's hard to rely only on stats to rank them. Many are undersized which is likely why they went undrafted but not sure that the heights/weights are up to date. IMO, players that played some games at a higher level will likely be targeted in the U18 draft)

HEO U18 league

Case Hennessy (RD) 5'11" 181lbs 33pts in 30g plus 3 games in EOJHL and CCHL Case Hennessy - Stats, Contract, Salary & More
Brandon Rockwell (C) 5'7" 150 lbs 36pts in 28g plus 18 games in EOJHL and CCHL Brandon Rockwell - Stats, Contract, Salary & More
Tristan Witmer (LW) 6'1" 194lbs 35 pts in 27g plus 7 games in EOJHL and CCHL Tristan Witmer - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

OMHA U18 league
Luke Saramak (F) 44 pts in 34g plus 2 games in GOJHL Luke Saramak - Stats, Contract, Salary & More
Jack McDonald (LW) 5'9" 172lbs 40 pts in 34g Jack McDonald - Stats, Contract, Salary & More
Jaxson Harismowich (F) 38 pts in 33g https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/887873/jaxson-harismowich
Marcus Carter (LW) 5'11" 146lbs 37 pts in 33g https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/897751/marcus-carter
Seth Clark (F) 36 pts in 30g plus 2 games in PJCHL https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/1126450/seth-clark
Max Skinner (LW) 35 pts in 30g https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/916548/max-skinner
Cohen Galbraith (F) 5'8" 132lbs 35 pts in 34g plus 2 games in PJCHL https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/888133/coen-galbraith
Kayden Brand (F) 5'9" 141lbs 35 pts in 29g https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/628091/kayden-brand
Porter Fabbri (F) 35 pts in 34g plus 1 game in GOJHL https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/888192/porter-fabbri
Evan Gaudry (LW) 34 pts in 34g plus 6 games in GOJHL and OJHL https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/897473/evan-gaudry
Ethan Proctor (LW) 5'9" 146lbs 33 pts in 28g https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/750989/ethan-proctor
 
He was using the USHL's language. Canadians are imports in the USHL. Essentially he was asking if the CHL would ever limit the amount of Americans in the league.

My question is why? Surely pushing out some 3rd and 4th liners so that the level of play goes up for everyone is better that trying be super nationalistic about development right?
Yes I agree, the league does get better with the US top players. With the teams that went heavy on US talent, what happens if a good portion of them don't report?
 
Yes I agree, the league does get better with the US top players. With the teams that went heavy on US talent, what happens if a good portion of them don't report?
Well that depends. Are the good portion that don't report guys that were take past round 5 or so? Also don't report by when? If teams gets most of the Americans they take in rounds 1-4 by the time they are 18, then it's fine. They all aren't going to show up at 16 right away. Some will come at 17. Some at 18. Anything you get after rounds 4 or 5 is always an extra.
 
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I counted 78 US players drafted (was a quick count, might be +/- 2)
Last year 33 US players drafted
Year before 41 US players drafted
 
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I’m with you, I think the narrative is overplayed year after year but the reality is there is always more than one that looks extremely questionable and that keeps the argument alive every draft.

There is definitely more than one situation this year that looks bad and that’s all parents need to be frustrated. For example -there was a AA kid that wasn’t even a PPG in AA taken, there was a kid from North York with 0 points this year taken. These situations are hard to justify to kids that have excelled but didn’t get selected for whatever reason.
probably hard to stomach after the time, effort and cash investment people put in there child
 
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Some kids are drafted in the very late rounds just as a favour . They wouldn't get a cup of coffee in Jr B. I member one goalie in camp that struggled in Jr C afterwards. He at least got to say he was in camp.

100 percent, but its not over half of the draft, or even 30 percent of the draft, as the one father seemed to insinuate. its the last round or two when the dads kid has been passed over 13 times. both that dads kid and the kid that was drafted as a favour will 99.9 percent end up in the same spot ,but that doesnt mean the 13 pics because are not justified.
 
probably hard to stomach after the time, effort and cash investment people put in there child

100 percent, i wish they could take a break and breath and stop paying 20k a year when they are barely a aaa player, but more parents and dads dont have the mental capacity to say that their kid isnt as good as they think they are.
 
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100 percent, i wish they could take a break and breath and stop paying 20k a year when they are barely a aaa player, but more parents and dads dont have the mental capacity to say that their kid isnt as good as they think they are.
I respect a lot of your takes, frankly I agree with most of them. You have shown you are well connected and have a ton of knowledge and history in the game but this post and your bluntness towards parents thinking "little johnny" is better than he actually may be is BS man.

Your post above is insinuating only bubble AAA kids got passed over in lieu of the favour picks and that parents should stop wasting their money and essentially realize their kid sucks. Jacob Scarpelli, Reid Ashton, Zach Forwell, Logan Young, Giacomo Del Priore, etc. are all kids over a PPG and near the top of the scoring leaders in their respective leagues, all passed over. I’m not a parent, I have coached this age group and I know some of these kids have their own issues but don’t act like these kids don’t belong in AAA and a lot of kids with bigger issues were taken in different rounds that have bigger issues than them. Some of these parents, just like every year, have a right to be upset.
 
I respect a lot of your takes, frankly I agree with most of them. You have shown you are well connected and have a ton of knowledge and history in the game but this post and your bluntness towards parents thinking "little johnny" is better than he actually may be is BS man.

Your post above is insinuating only bubble AAA kids got passed over in lieu of the favour picks and that parents should stop wasting their money and essentially realize their kid sucks. Jacob Scarpelli, Reid Ashton, Zach Forwell, Logan Young, Giacomo Del Priore, etc. are all kids over a PPG and near the top of the scoring leaders in their respective leagues, all passed over. I’m not a parent, I have coached this age group and I know some of these kids have their own issues but don’t act like these kids don’t belong in AAA and a lot of kids with bigger issues were taken in different rounds that have bigger issues than them. Some of these parents, just like every year, have a right to be upset.

so then let me ask you, they where not passed over once, they were passed over 15 times.

every year there are players like that that get listed and posters say 'they are so good', well, im sorry but dating back 10-15 years, none of these players ever do anything in either the OHL or NCAA.

who was the last kid that became something in the ohl that was meaningful? 4 years ago with mangone? other then him? we may miss one player per year that ends up being a very good player, and thats a high estimate.

so all those players above, will they prove us wrong? or perhaps are there flaws in their game that parents and others cannot see that made them to be not drafted. i can name off some of them as they were in my area, why they did not make my list and i did not see them to be draft picks, but im not sure thats fair to the kid and honestly, im not sure that it matters, there will be another claiming bias or whatever. instead of seeing those flaws, its easer to complain, its sadly the mantra of parents these days. never my kids fault, even if it is( and fault is harsh, playing aaa at that level alone is one hell of an accomplsihment)

should some of those kids been drafted, sure i guess, would they have been ohl palyers in a year, very low percentage or they would not have been passed over as many times as they were.


your also falling down the same trap that parents do. being a 5'7 scorer in u16 doesnt mean lot to me in 4 years if you dont have any growth left to your game. if you look like your as good as your going to get, then im not hitching my wagon to you, id rather be wrong. projectable skills are the only thing your looking for after the first 5'6 rounds, and if your small and not growing with just good aaa skill, doesnt matter what your numbers are, you wont be high on the list.

like i said, lets see these kids prove me wrong and become ohl players, but based on every other year, its not going to happen.
 
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so then let me ask you, they where not passed over once, they were passed over 15 times.

every year there are players like that that get listed and posters say 'they are so good', well, im sorry but dating back 10-15 years, none of these players ever do anything in either the OHL or NCAA.

who was the last kid that became something in the ohl that was meaningful? 4 years ago with mangone? other then him? we may miss one player per year that ends up being a very good player, and thats a high estimate.

so all those players above, will they prove us wrong? or perhaps are there flaws in their game that parents and others cannot see that made them to be not drafted. i can name off some of them as they were in my area, why they did not make my list and i did not see them to be draft picks, but im not sure thats fair to the kid and honestly, im not sure that it matters, there will be another claiming bias or whatever. instead of seeing those flaws, its easer to complain, its sadly the mantra of parents these days. never my kids fault, even if it is( and fault is harsh, playing aaa at that level alone is one hell of an accomplsihment)

should some of those kids been drafted, sure i guess, would they have been ohl palyers in a year, very low percentage or they would not have been passed over as many times as they were.
To be clear, I am agreeing that I don’t think all of those kids should have necessarily been drafted, and there are many more examples im sure. Some have size issues, some have behavior issues, etc.

I just wanted to point out I don’t think it’s fair to say the kids not selected should stop wasting their money on AAA as they don’t even belong to be there when the reality is some of these kids lead their top 15 teams in scoring and were passed over for whatever reason when someone from their team was picked because their dad is friends with somebody or they’re 6’2 and may be good one day.

There are 1000s of unrealistic and crazy parents out there, we could have a beer one day and share stories of the same families we’ve come across I’m sure, but I wouldn’t paint all of them with the same brush, that’s all.
 
100 percent, i wish they could take a break and breath and stop paying 20k a year when they are barely a aaa player, but more parents and dads dont have the mental capacity to say that their kid isnt as good as they think they are.

Yup. The amount of money spent on AAA hockey is bananas. And this starts at like age 8 now! Crazy.
 
so then let me ask you, they where not passed over once, they were passed over 15 times.

every year there are players like that that get listed and posters say 'they are so good', well, im sorry but dating back 10-15 years, none of these players ever do anything in either the OHL or NCAA.

who was the last kid that became something in the ohl that was meaningful? 4 years ago with mangone? other then him? we may miss one player per year that ends up being a very good player, and thats a high estimate.

so all those players above, will they prove us wrong? or perhaps are there flaws in their game that parents and others cannot see that made them to be not drafted. i can name off some of them as they were in my area, why they did not make my list and i did not see them to be draft picks, but im not sure thats fair to the kid and honestly, im not sure that it matters, there will be another claiming bias or whatever. instead of seeing those flaws, its easer to complain, its sadly the mantra of parents these days. never my kids fault, even if it is( and fault is harsh, playing aaa at that level alone is one hell of an accomplsihment)

should some of those kids been drafted, sure i guess, would they have been ohl palyers in a year, very low percentage or they would not have been passed over as many times as they were.


your also falling down the same trap that parents do. being a 5'7 scorer in u16 doesnt mean lot to me in 4 years if you dont have any growth left to your game. if you look like your as good as your going to get, then im not hitching my wagon to you, id rather be wrong. projectable skills are the only thing your looking for after the first 5'6 rounds, and if your small and not growing with just good aaa skill, doesnt matter what your numbers are, you wont be high on the list.

like i said, lets see these kids prove me wrong and become ohl players, but based on every other year, its not going to happen.
I think the answer is to reduce the draft to ten rounds. The rounds between 11 and 15 are meaningless. All of those players would fall into the U-18 draft the following year anyway. How many of those guys drafted 11 through 15 play Jr?

It is also an advantage to not get drafted late and have your rights held long term. It is better to go have another great year, grow your game and then be picked as a more mature player.

Even the NHL got rid of the useless late rounds and lowered it to seven rounds. They recognized that 10+ rounds was meaningless and a waste of time. It was better for the players to have more mobility as well.

Reducing the draft to ten rounds also makes those picks more valuable. You cannot muck around with them and toss them at favours.

Are there players that end up playing a significant role if they are picked after the 10th round? Sure. But those players are likely late bloomers in some manner and that shows in their U-18 season so they end up drafted through that draft. Maybe even make the U-18 draft 5 rounds instead of 3 to account for the extra players available. It might even make that first round of the U-18 draft a heck of a lot more meaningful and would help the teams that finish lower in the standings have a larger pool of late bloomers to pick and use right away.
 
100 percent, but its not over half of the draft, or even 30 percent of the draft, as the one father seemed to insinuate. its the last round or two when the dads kid has been passed over 13 times. both that dads kid and the kid that was drafted as a favour will 99.9 percent end up in the same spot ,but that doesnt mean the 13 pics because are not justified.
This is afact. Rangers drafted the grandson of the man who first bought the team from New York and made it a community asset. I don't think he even came to the rookie camp. Teams would be foolish to waste any other picks on players that haven't got a prayer of ever making the team. The percentage is low enough as it is.
 
To be clear, I am agreeing that I don’t think all of those kids should have necessarily been drafted, and there are many more examples im sure. Some have size issues, some have behavior issues, etc.

I just wanted to point out I don’t think it’s fair to say the kids not selected should stop wasting their money on AAA as they don’t even belong to be there when the reality is some of these kids lead their top 15 teams in scoring and were passed over for whatever reason when someone from their team was picked because their dad is friends with somebody or they’re 6’2 and may be good one day.

There are 1000s of unrealistic and crazy parents out there, we could have a beer one day and share stories of the same families we’ve come across I’m sure, but I wouldn’t paint all of them with the same brush, that’s all.
our points our the same. There a difference between good aaa player and viable OHL draft pick.

The dad on here that complains that the only reason his kid was not drafted was due to all the favours is who I’m talking h too. There are no true OHL prospects thst were passed over. No chance teams passed on them that many times if they were true prospects. It’s easier to complain vs saying my kid is not a true prospect
 
I think the answer is to reduce the draft to ten rounds. The rounds between 11 and 15 are meaningless. All of those players would fall into the U-18 draft the following year anyway. How many of those guys drafted 11 through 15 play Jr?

It is also an advantage to not get drafted late and have your rights held long term. It is better to go have another great year, grow your game and then be picked as a more mature player.

Even the NHL got rid of the useless late rounds and lowered it to seven rounds. They recognized that 10+ rounds was meaningless and a waste of time. It was better for the players to have more mobility as well.

Reducing the draft to ten rounds also makes those picks more valuable. You cannot muck around with them and toss them at favours.

Are there players that end up playing a significant role if they are picked after the 10th round? Sure. But those players are likely late bloomers in some manner and that shows in their U-18 season so they end up drafted through that draft. Maybe even make the U-18 draft 5 rounds instead of 3 to account for the extra players available. It might even make that first round of the U-18 draft a heck of a lot more meaningful and would help the teams that finish lower in the standings have a larger pool of late bloomers to pick and use right away.

I agree with only 10 rounds for OHL priority draft as long as U18 draft is increased to 5 rounds. There is no cap or revenue sharing in the OHL, there has to be a way to limit free agents signing with Kitchener, London, …
 
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I respect a lot of your takes, frankly I agree with most of them. You have shown you are well connected and have a ton of knowledge and history in the game but this post and your bluntness towards parents thinking "little johnny" is better than he actually may be is BS man.

Your post above is insinuating only bubble AAA kids got passed over in lieu of the favour picks and that parents should stop wasting their money and essentially realize their kid sucks. Jacob Scarpelli, Reid Ashton, Zach Forwell, Logan Young, Giacomo Del Priore, etc. are all kids over a PPG and near the top of the scoring leaders in their respective leagues, all passed over. I’m not a parent, I have coached this age group and I know some of these kids have their own issues but don’t act like these kids don’t belong in AAA and a lot of kids with bigger issues were taken in different rounds that have bigger issues than them. Some of these parents, just like every year, have a right to be upset.
I have to agree with few points on both ends of the argument, but in the end, if you guys are "accepting" that there is corruption in the process, then your argument goes out the window and people will start to question the credibility of the whole process. It doesn't matter how many rounds you increase or decrease the draft, there will always be a few rounds where well to do families and agents will pay, favors will be done and Ex-NHLer's kids will be given the benefit of the doubt, under the guise of "upside potential" vs some kids that maybe deserve a chance to GROW into a hockey player.
Is the answer coming up with a statistical approach with an independent panel? Therefore you can show that Nikitia Ilechenko, who has 3 points in 23 games, deserves an opportunity to grow into a player vs other kids or Aiden Biachnini who has 6 pts in 33 games, is a better skater, has higher IQ and ice time efficiency rating than the kids mentioned above. If you argument has data to back it up, then people wont be as pessimistic.
I love the game to much to watch it be diluted by money or nepotism.
 

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