2009 Born for the 2025 OHL Draft

DraftGuyyy

Registered User
Nov 12, 2024
11
16
Now I could be wrong but wasn't it Buffalo for a few years just watched video and employed no scouts?

Looks like it


'The idea of “video scouting” can make Sabres fans cringe. Cost-cutting owner B. Thomas Golisano and former GM Darcy Regier focused on an increase in video scouting in the mid-2000s. The Sabres’ first-round picks in 2005 and 2006 (Marek Zagrapan and Dennis Persson) never played an NHL game. The top two picks in 2007 (T.J. Brennan and Drew Schiestel) combined for 51 games.'

Its interesting. Looks like the motivation was entirely cost cutting and not quality based, and the results for the most part showed that.

Maybe Jordan does it better then the Sabres, well see.
 

Jordan Malette

Registered User
Mar 26, 2018
28
22
I'm not going to go down the road again, as I don't really care that much and its getting a bit tiring. My fault for opening Pandora's box with the poster who stirred it up, I should have known better.

If your happy with the list performance then that's all that matters, that and the boss that you have. I would think that having the top pick in the draft so low (and others like Fitzgerald who scored 2 goals a game for the last 2 months it seemed) would be a red flag and something to sit back and ask 'where did I go wrong'. I found that trend in your list throughout, more credit to smaller skilled guys where bigger players who at times performed statistically just as well, were lower, despite the OHL seemingly wanting those players more is seems. My kid is one of those small kids that for whatever reason was highly rated despite some of his peers who are getting OHL minutes and are bigger, my kid is in U18, which is probably right. I found the other list did a strong job of balancing it better, just my opinion as a consumer.

But again, that's simply my opinion, if you are happy, keep going at it. I would say as others have said, I don't imagine there would be alot of demand for scouts who don't scout per say, but that's something you have to judge, not me.
I agree, the conversation has certainly run it's course. Your opinions are all valid and it's all stuff I've pondered on quite a bit, and I'll leave things at that.

Happy to talk 2009 born players and keep this thread clean of this riff raff moving forward.
 

dirty12

Registered User
Mar 6, 2015
10,278
4,519
Point of clarification, I do not believe he is the owner of the site, I have to believe he is a volunteer scout of some sort, generally I don't believe scouts are paid on those kind of sites, now I could be wrong.

Secondly, I'm biting and replying even thou I'm fairly certain you are posting in a way to troll a bit, which I thought was against the rules on here, but I'm not an expert in that in any means.

So again, I'm an engineer whose background is in efficiency and productivity, making the best product and most profit for the least cost. I've done it for years to the point that I'm basically retired in my early 50s. Not a flex, just is what it is. I think your idea on the video may have merit because it knocks down cost considerably, which I'm sure is a major factor in Jordan's decision not to go to games, not that its more efficient.

The issue becomes the product and is it good enough to sustain that. I was a customer last year and their business model is good, it tries to get parents early and then continuously rank age groups to continue to get subscriptions. Its rather effective depending on the parents level of insecurity and need for information. You may get them for 3/4 years. I struggled with the quality of the lists, which varied significantly from what happened on draft day. That's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, as Jordan could be smarter then the entire OHL scouting community, the struggle is that with an early look at his list, its simply not true. I go back to my son, who Jordan had ranked very high. He was a late pick and while I appreciate Jordan's optimism in him, I don't see the OHL in his future next year, he is simply too far away. One of my sons teammates from last year was also rated highly (I was rather surprised given his position, relatively small size and low production), but was not drafted. Kids that Jordan had rated after him are already in the OHL and doing well. In 4 years perhaps he will on an overall average do better, but its not a great start. That's why I asked him about his 2007 draft and if he's done a critical analysis on previous rankings.

So as a guy who loves process and making things better, my first question if I was the business owner, would be how can we improve. Is it that Jordan simply needs more time to learn and grow, probably if its only his second year doing it. But if Jordan tells me that he doesn't go to games and OHL teams do (and scouts do), and I look at the list that doesn't look like its holding up already, then in my mind his process needs to change. Perhaps there would be an initial hit to profitability, but if going to games adds more quality to the list, then perhaps its worth it over the long term. Secondly, having him out with a jacket on and being seen buy potential customers may end up driving more business anyways, so going out may end up paying for itself in that aspect.

End of the day no one really cares I don't think, I just wonder if some tweak's to the process may make the list better, and in a round about way may help Jordan move up the hockey world. To another posters point, I don't imagine that there is a high demand in the NHL for video analysts in scouting, at least not with what he does, there's tons of guys who do in person scouting and that seems to be the apitite for NHL teams, probably due to accuracy. Most video of them from what I see are more mathematical and more driven by the ability to build modeling. Instat, which we had access to last year via our U16 team, has even made them a bit less needed.

Accuracy might depend on what you want from the content. Are you looking for a best guess where you kid will be selected; or as that guy proclaims he has attempted, identify the BPA.
 

DraftGuyyy

Registered User
Nov 12, 2024
11
16
Accuracy might depend on what you want from the content. Are you looking for a best guess where you kid will be selected; or as that guy proclaims he has attempted, identify the BPA.

He had my son rated in the top 3 rounds, he went late, 11th. I knew he was going later, probably where he went, based on his skill set.

As a consumer, i wanted a product that would give me an idea of the best players heading into the draft. I don't expect perfection nor do i think that's fair, but not to have the universally decided top player in a top 10 is a red flag. Its a redder flag given how the first 15 to 02 games of everyone's season has played out.
 

DraftGuyyy

Registered User
Nov 12, 2024
11
16
I agree, the conversation has certainly run it's course. Your opinions are all valid and it's all stuff I've pondered on quite a bit, and I'll leave things at that.

Happy to talk 2009 born players and keep this thread clean of this riff raff moving forward.
Its ok to say 'I was wrong', people will actually cut you a ton of credit for saying it. Some youth struggle with saying it thou, not sure why.

I don't know if you can only ask for 1 type of feedback when you ask for feedback, that seems a bit odd to me. Feedback is feedback.

Its interesting, I came on here after seeing all the other interactions where you struggled with posters with an open mind and looking for an interesting dialog, but after our interactions i can somewhat see what their frustrations were as well.
 
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dirty12

Registered User
Mar 6, 2015
10,278
4,519
Its ok to say 'I was wrong', people will actually cut you a ton of credit for saying it. Some youth struggle with saying it thou, not sure why.

I don't know if you can only ask for 1 type of feedback when you ask for feedback, that seems a bit odd to me. Feedback is feedback.

Its interesting, I came on here after seeing all the other interactions where you struggled with posters with an open mind and looking for an interesting dialog, but after our interactions i can somewhat see what their frustrations were as well.

It’s also ok to say rank what you believe is the BPA if you like. Just know everyone else is going to games to chat up GMs, scouts, and agents to find out the order in which players will be selected.
 
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Jordan Malette

Registered User
Mar 26, 2018
28
22
Its ok to say 'I was wrong', people will actually cut you a ton of credit for saying it. Some youth struggle with saying it thou, not sure why.

I don't know if you can only ask for 1 type of feedback when you ask for feedback, that seems a bit odd to me. Feedback is feedback.

Its interesting, I came on here after seeing all the other interactions where you struggled with posters with an open mind and looking for an interesting dialog, but after our interactions i can somewhat see what their frustrations were as well.
I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong when the time comes. It's no secret I stuck my neck out on the line over a few players at the top of the '08 class, but I am just giving myself time before declaring any opinion as winners or losers.

I just wrote a semi-big article discussing some of the players I got wrong for the 2007s, what I undervalued with them and missed, and I'll do the same with the 2008s when enough time has passed.

Edit: point of clarity, while I still believe in these players and some 2007s who fit this criteria are doing well, I can undoubtedly admit I was over-bullish for one reason or another on the players who went undrafted / went way lower than I had them as evidently I am not the smartest person in the room on 15 or so different players. A handful may turn out, but yes, with most of these major outliers, there was something I probably overvalued.

It's the top of the class where I think more time is warranted. I had a pretty good idea of how things were going to unfold, and my deviation was not a surprise to me. Whether I'm right or wrong, we'll see, but that's where it's more of a waiting game.
 
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