2006 WJC bid submission

[YellHockey*]

I hope a non NHL city like Saskatoon or London/Kitchener gets it. I know Vancouver is a nice city and is gearing up for the 2010 games but I'd rather see junior towns rewarded.

So you want to see junior towns rewarded?

How could you doubt Winnipeg in the first place? So they don't have a junior club. They have proven that they can support the WJCs with no problem at all. There are no other big name teams in town to take the dollars out of the fans' pockets. The same can be said for Hamilton.

But you want to see a non-junior town in Winnipeg, or Hamilton, rewarded?

Which is it?

 

[Pond Hockey]

The deadline was today. You are not going to find many confirmation news links this evening. Not even Hockey Canada has published who has submitted bids yet.

The bid deadline was not the 6th, but the 5th (the day before I started this thread).
http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/news/2003/nr092.html

 

[PEli*]

So you want to see junior towns rewarded?



But you want to see a non-junior town in Winnipeg, or Hamilton, rewarded?

Which is it?

It's this.

If I see an NHL city get the WJCs, I'm going to puke in my soup.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

The WJCs belong in junior cities. Not NHL cities.

If said NHL city has a junior team, it is a junior city as well. In a case like Vancouver, the majority of their fans are those who cannot afford to see NHL hockey in person. Why should those fans be punished because there is an NHL team next door?

Why would Winnipeg or Hamilton be good choices?

Ottawa deserves the tournament more then any other bidder. The best CHL attendance. The best pair of venues. Success at holding the Memorial Cup.

1. Did you see the tournament in Winnipeg in 1999? They supported the tournament better than anybody else at the time. The only tournament to draw better was Halifax in 2003...and only because the secondary building in Sydney was bigger than Winnipeg's secondary arenas in Selkirk and Portage La Prairie...Brandon's rink is reasonable size, but wasn't used for all games outside Winnipeg. Bottom line, Winnipeg ran a spectacular tournament.

2. I agree on that Ottawa supports its junior team well and hosted a great Memorial Cup....but the best pair of venues? I'd take GM Place and Pacific Coliseum over the Corel Centre and the Ottawa Civic Centre any day of the week.

 

[YellHockey*]

1. Did you see the tournament in Winnipeg in 1999? They supported the tournament better than anybody else at the time. The only tournament to draw better was Halifax in 2003...and only because the secondary building in Sydney was bigger than Winnipeg's secondary arenas in Selkirk and Portage La Prairie...Brandon's rink is reasonable size, but wasn't used for all games outside Winnipeg. Bottom line, Winnipeg ran a spectacular tournament.

You're taking my post out of context. I was asking why he thought Winnipeg or Hamilton would be good markets when he wanted a junior city to host the event.

2. I agree on that Ottawa supports its junior team well and hosted a great Memorial Cup....but the best pair of venues? I'd take GM Place and Pacific Coliseum over the Corel Centre and the Ottawa Civic Centre any day of the week.

The Corel Centre is a better venue then GM Place because it is bigger with more suites. The Civic Centre and Pacific Coliseum are washes because they aren't going to be hosting the big events. They are both big enough for what they'll be used for. What is the full capacity of Pacific Coliseum and why do they only have a 7000 seat capacity for Giants games?

 

[PEli*]

Why should those fans be punished because there is an NHL team next door?

They aren't being punished. They've got alternatives and then some. Junior cities are the places that make this tournament. They're the ones giving homes to players and providing affordable entertainment for anybody that wants to watch great hockey.

Point is, junior cities eat, sleep and breathe junior hockey. It would be a shame to see the 2006 WJC held in GM Place or the Corel Centre while the diehards in Kitchener/London, Saskatoon or even long, long, longshot Halifax watch on TV.

Should the Olympics be held in Saskatoon? Should the World Cup of hockey be held in Halifax? Should the World Hockey Championship be held in London/Kitchener?

 

[BCCHL inactive]

The Civic Centre and Pacific Coliseum are washes because they aren't going to be hosting the big events. They are both big enough for what they'll be used for. What is the full capacity of Pacific Coliseum and why do they only have a 7000 seat capacity for Giants games?

Because 16,000 seats is too big for junior hockey. The only reason the Hitmen don't cover up the Saddledome's top deck is because they share the building with the Flames....mind you, the Hitmen do make use of that top deck on more than the odd occasion.

If Vancouver would get the 2006 World U20 Championship, I would hope that Pacific Coliseum is the main venue (with the top deck in use), while a city like Victoria, who are going to have a brand new 7,500-seat arena, would be used as the secondary venue. GM Place would get the Bronze and Gold Medal Games.

They aren't being punished. They've got alternatives and then some. Junior cities are the places that make this tournament. They're the ones giving homes to players and providing affordable entertainment for anybody that wants to watch great hockey.

And the NHL cities with junior teams don't do that? Players for the Vancouver Giants are given homes by the people in Vancouver, the Giants do provide affordable entertainment for anybody who wants to watch great hockey.

The smaller locations that used to "make" this tournament don't anymore. Just like the rest of high calibre hockey, it is run by money. London/Kitchener won't draw near the cash that Vancouver, Ottawa or Edmonton would.

The people attending Giants games are, for the most part, those who cannot afford to shell out the cash to go watch an NHL game. So yes, by excluding them from a chance to host a junior hockey spectacle is punishing the dedicated junior fans in NHL cities.

Personally, I'm surprised that Calgary isn't bidding. They have great support for the Hitmen. They rarely get a crowd below 6,000 and they do push 10,000-11,000 on more than a rare occasion. Hell, for their teddy bear night last month, they drew over 14,000....Not bad for an NHL city who doesn't care about junior hockey eh?

 

[Slats432]

What was the relationship between the Oiler ownership and the WHL team?

Peter Pocklington was totally uncooperative and looked at them as competition and did everything he could to help them fail.

 

[PEli*]

And the NHL cities with junior teams don't do that? Players for the Vancouver Giants are given homes by the people in Vancouver, the Giants do provide affordable entertainment for anybody who wants to watch great hockey.

The smaller locations that used to "make" this tournament don't anymore. Just like the rest of high calibre hockey, it is run by money. London/Kitchener won't draw near the cash that Vancouver, Ottawa or Edmonton would.

The people attending Giants games are, for the most part, those who cannot afford to shell out the cash to go watch an NHL game. So yes, by excluding them from a chance to host a junior hockey spectacle is punishing the dedicated junior fans in NHL cities.

Personally, I'm surprised that Calgary isn't bidding. They have great support for the Hitmen. They rarely get a crowd below 6,000 and they do push 10,000-11,000 on more than a rare occasion. Hell, for their teddy bear night last month, they drew over 14,000....Not bad for
an NHL city who doesn't care about junior hockey eh?

You know what? You're completely right. So right that I thought I'd ask a question...

Why in Zeus' butthole has the WJC been held in Montreal (way back in '78), Hamilton, Saskatoon, Red Deer, Winnipeg and Halifax? Why not go to Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa? Only one of those places had an NHL team when the WJCs came to town. Halifax and Winnipeg set records and Halifax did it without a GM Place or a Corel Centre.

So how do cities like Halifax and Winnipeg keep getting the tournament when places like Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal, Toronto, etc. have the big "money factor"? Have these cities never bid on the WJCs before?

I'm not blowing Halifax's horn. I don't expect the WJCs to come to Halifax like everybody else seems to know that their city is going to get the tourney. I just think it's stupid to put a tournament devoted to promoting junior hockey in a market dominated by pro sports. Giving the WJCs to an NHL city is like giving the Olympics to Boise, Idaho.

I respect Vancouver for having a junior team and I respect other large cities for doing so. They're still not junior cities. They're NHL cities and the competition for the fans' dollars is there at all times. A large city is an expensive city with alternatives to even the cheapest hockey provided.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

You know what? You're completely right. So right that I thought I'd ask a question...

Why in Zeus' butthole has the WJC been held in Montreal (way back in '78), Hamilton, Saskatoon, Red Deer, Winnipeg and Halifax? Why not go to Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa? Only one of those places had an NHL team when the WJCs came to town. Halifax and Winnipeg set records and Halifax did it without a GM Place or a Corel Centre.

So how do cities like Halifax and Winnipeg keep getting the tournament when places like Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal, Toronto, etc. have the big "money factor"? Have these cities never bid on the WJCs before?

I'm not blowing Halifax's horn. I don't expect the WJCs to come to Halifax like everybody else seems to know that their city is going to get the tourney. I just think it's stupid to put a tournament devoted to promoting junior hockey in a market dominated by pro sports. Giving the WJCs to an NHL city is like giving the Olympics to Boise, Idaho.

I respect Vancouver for having a junior team and I respect other large cities for doing so. They're still not junior cities. They're NHL cities and the competition for the fans' dollars is there at all times. A large city is an expensive city with alternatives to even the cheapest hockey provided.

Here is the history of the World U20 Championship in Canada...

1978 - Montréal, QUE
1986 - Hamilton, ONT
1991 - Saskatoon, SSK
1995 - Red Deer, AB
1999 - Winnipeg, MB
2003 - Halifax, NS

As you can see, the only tournament to be hosted in Canada, in a building smaller than 10,000 seats is Red Deer...and the odd game was played in Edmonton. That being said, this tournament only became a real money-maker after the Red Deer tournament.

Winnipeg and Halifax did set records, but records are made to be broken. Put this tournament in Ottawa, Edmonton or Vancouver and it will flourish and set more records.

Also, the Ottawa 67's are the best supported team in the CHL. They have the Ottawa Senators (NHL) in town and the Gatineau Olympiques (QMJHL) right across the river.....and 10,000+ still attend games on a regular basis. How can you justify saying that Ottawa isn't a junior hockey city?

I will admit that Vancouver isn't quite there yet with the Giants....but they've only had their team for three years. Give them this tournament and the popularity of major junior hockey will grow like nothing else in Vancouver. And don't forget that there are 4 BCHL (Jr.A) teams in the Lower Mainland....junior hockey does exist in the Greater Vancouver area, and it is supported rather well.

There may be 18,000+ in Vancouver who can afford NHL hockey on a regular basis, but there are many, many more who cannot afford it. Those are the people who will sellout the 2006 World U20 Championships, and cheer as loud as they can for Team Canada, shall they be awarded the tournament.

 

[PEli*]

I understand your points and agree with many. Still, if Winnipeg was such a success, why wasn't an NHL city awarded the WJCs over Halifax the last time around?

A key point to this is what you have stated previously. Money. If it is about money, and I don't believe it is at this point, NHL cities should have had it in 1999 and 2003. There should have been no question about that.

If you put this tournament in a big city once. Just once. It will never leave. Once a record is set in Vancouver/Toronto/Edmonton, why would the IIHF ever settle for a Halifax or Saskatoon again? Why make $500,000 when you could double or triple it?

This then takes these events from the "real" junior cities. Yes, Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, etc. are just as legit as other junior cities but if you were a resident of Halifax, London, Kitchener or Saskatoon, you'd feel completely different. Mind you, if I were a Vancouver resident, I'd likely be on your side.

I hope you see what I'm saying. In no way am I trying to rip the fans of Vancouver or any other Canadian CMA. I just think that once this tourney goes to a large city in Canada, the odds of it coming back to a smaller but equally deserving city will decrease a lot.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

I understand your points and agree with many. Still, if Winnipeg was such a success, why wasn't an NHL city awarded the WJCs over Halifax the last time around?

Because the Halifax bid was obviously the best going for the 2003 tournament. The simple fact of having an NHL team doesn't automatically mean your committee can run the best tournament.

London/Kitchener won't break any records...Saskatoon is a possibility if Regina gets some games too, but that isn't likely...Ottawa, Edmonton and Vancouver, providing they have good bids, are sure bets to set attendance records and take in a record profit.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

This then takes these events from the "real" junior cities. Yes, Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, etc. are just as legit as other junior cities but if you were a resident of Halifax, London, Kitchener or Saskatoon, you'd feel completely different. Mind you, if I were a Vancouver resident, I'd likely be on your side.

For the record, I am a resident of Prince George, BC. A city of 80,000 people whose best hockey without having to travel 9 hours south (Vancouver), East (Edmonton) or Southeast (Calgary) is the WHL.

The days of smaller Canadian junior cities hosting this event are unfortunately not there anymore (not that they were really there to begin with). As this tournament continues to rake in money, it is going to cost more money to host the tournament. Whether a city with an NHL team wins the 2006 tournament or not, pretty soon the smaller cities like London, Kitchener, Prince George, etc, won't be able to afford to consider a bid.

The only cities that should be considered are those with buildings of 10,000+ seats for the main arena, and at least 5,000 for the secondary arena.

If an NHL city's bid is the best, that's where the tournament should go. Bottom line.

 

[PEli*]

Because the Halifax bid was obviously the best going for the 2003 tournament. The simple fact of having an NHL team doesn't automatically mean your committee can run the best tournament.

Awesome. Now it's coming together. What sets Vancouver apart from Saskatoon or London/Kitchener then? Other than GM Place and the Pacific Coliseum.

Of course having an NHL team doesn't automatically mean your committee can run the best tournament. It seems as though a lot of people in this thread feel that having a couple of huge arenas does mean your committee can run a successful tournament.

Ottawa, Edmonton and Vancouver, providing they have good bids, are sure bets to set attendance records and take in a record profit.

Which solidifies my point of taking the tournament from the small fish. So the big boys take in record profits and set attendance records and the Saskatoons, Londons, Kitcheners and Halifaxes never see the tournament again until they can either run a flawless tourney or set another record.

Talk about ripping the heart out of two thirds of the country. It'd be a shame to see junior hockey go the way of professional hockey.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Awesome. Now it's coming together. What sets Vancouver apart from Saskatoon or London/Kitchener then? Other than GM Place and the Pacific Coliseum.

I haven't seen the bids, and neither have you.

However, having the huge arena advantage is a major part of the bid. Why would Hockey Canada choose a city that cannot make an improvement over Halifax's show in 2003?

It seems as though a lot of people in this thread feel that having a couple of huge arenas does mean your committee can run a successful tournament.

And they're right. For Canadians, all that needs to be had is seats, and tickets will sell. Do you honestly think a couple of 6,000 seat arenas can put on a better show than a 15,000 seater and an 18,000 seater?

Which solidifies my point of taking the tournament from the small fish.
So the big boys take in record profits and set attendance records and the Saskatoons, Londons, Kitcheners and Halifaxes never see the tournament again until they can either run a flawless tourney or set another record.

Again, unless no other bid can do it, why give the tournament to a city that cannot put on a better show than the previous city?

 

[PEli*]

I haven't seen the bids, and neither have you.

However, having the huge arena advantage is a major part of the bid. Why would Hockey Canada choose a city that cannot make an improvement over Halifax's show in 2003?

I don't know. Don't you think that of Calgary, Ottawa, Quebec and Winnipeg, the benefits of extra seating would have outweighed the possible flaws of a tourney not run as well as Halifax? Halifax pulled off the tournament without a hitch. Ottawa, Calgary, Quebec and Winnipeg were all serious bidders in 2003.

Halifax's bid was put together very well but all of the locations listed could double Halifax's attendance and in some cases, more than double. Wouldn't you think that one of those cities could run a three week tournament as well as a city of less than 400,000?

And they're right. For Canadians, all that needs to be had is seats, and tickets will sell. Do you honestly think a couple of 6,000 seat arenas can put on a better show than a 15,000 seater and an 18,000 seater?

I guess we'll have to wait and see. For now, we'll just have to remember past tournaments in Boston where the tournament took a backseat to the city's alternatives like NHL hockey, college hockey, basketball, etc. I think the IIHF's major fear of a large city is the distraction that fans will face.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

I guess we'll have to wait and see. For now, we'll just have to remember past tournaments in Boston where the tournament took a backseat to the city's alternatives like NHL hockey, college hockey, basketball, etc. I think the IIHF's major fear of a large city is the distraction that fans will face.

Don't compare a large American city to a large Canadian city for this tournament. Being a Canadian junior hockey fan, you should know that this tournament wouldn't be 3rd page news in the sports page, while it headlines the front pages in Canada.

The IIHF doesn't fear a large city. Here are all city populations of past World U20 Championships...Of course, these are all current, but my point will be made. Cities over 250,000 in population are in bold. ( http://www.citypopulation.de/cities.html )

1977 - Bystrica - 83,056 ...Zvolen - 43,789
1978 - Montréal - 3,426,350
1979 - Karlstad - 80,934
1980 - Helsinki - 559,716
1981 - Fussen - N/A
1982 - Minnesota (not sure which city)
1983 - Leningrad- 4,669,400
1984 - Norrkoping - 123,303 ...Nykoping - 49,310
1985 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Turku - 174,618
1986 - Hamilton - 662,401
1987 - Piestany - 30,606
1988 - Moscow - 10,101,500
1989 - Anchorage - 268,983
1990 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Turku - 174,618
1991 - Saskatoon - 225,927
1992 - Fussen - N/A ...Kaufbeuren - N/A
1993 - Gavle - 91,276
1994 - Ostrava - 314,102
1995 - Red Deer - 67,707
1996 - Boston - 589,281
1997 - Geneva - 177,535 ...Morges - 13,824
1998 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Hameenlinna - 46,734
1999 - Winnipeg - 671,274
2000 - Skelleftea - 71,813 ...Umea - 106,525
2001 - Moscow - 10,101,500 ...Podolsk - 181,500
2002 - Pardubice - 89,725
2003 - Halifax - 359,183 ...Sydney - 109,330
2004 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Hameenlinna - 46,734
2005 - Grand Forks - 48,546

 

[Pond Hockey]

If Vancouver would get the 2006 World U20 Championship, I would hope that Pacific Coliseum is the main venue (with the top deck in use), while a city like Victoria, who are going to have a brand new 7,500-seat arena, would be used as the secondary venue. GM Place would get the Bronze and Gold Medal Games.

Good idea (more convenient for the Canucks and the NHL schedulers), but methinks that TSN would find that to be a pain in the butt.

 

[PEli*]

Don't compare a large American city to a large Canadian city for this tournament. Being a Canadian junior hockey fan, you should know that this tournament wouldn't be 3rd page news in the sports page, while it headlines the front pages in Canada.

The IIHF doesn't fear a large city. Here are all city populations of past World U20 Championships...Of course, these are all current, but my point will be made. Cities over 250,000 in population are in bold. ( http://www.citypopulation.de/cities.html )

1977 - Bystrica - 83,056 ...Zvolen - 43,789
1978 - Montréal - 3,426,350
1979 - Karlstad - 80,934
1980 - Helsinki - 559,716
1981 - Fussen - N/A
1982 - Minnesota (not sure which city)
1983 - Leningrad- 4,669,400
1984 - Norrkoping - 123,303 ...Nykoping - 49,310
1985 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Turku - 174,618
1986 - Hamilton - 662,401
1987 - Piestany - 30,606
1988 - Moscow - 10,101,500
1989 - Anchorage - 268,983
1990 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Turku - 174,618
1991 - Saskatoon - 225,927
1992 - Fussen - N/A ...Kaufbeuren - N/A
1993 - Gavle - 91,276
1994 - Ostrava - 314,102
1995 - Red Deer - 67,707
1996 - Boston - 589,281
1997 - Geneva - 177,535 ...Morges - 13,824
1998 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Hameenlinna - 46,734
1999 - Winnipeg - 671,274
2000 - Skelleftea - 71,813 ...Umea - 106,525
2001 - Moscow - 10,101,500 ...Podolsk - 181,500
2002 - Pardubice - 89,725
2003 - Halifax - 359,183 ...Sydney - 109,330
2004 - Helsinki - 559,716 ...Hameenlinna - 46,734
2005 - Grand Forks - 48,546

Well, considering the only thing we care about are records...

Do we know which of those big cities set records? Moscow looked pretty pathetic and if I remember correctly, Geneva wasn't looking to hot either.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Good idea (more convenient for the Canucks and the NHL schedulers), but methinks that TSN would find that to be a pain in the butt.

Why? They would be in one rink until the final day.

Well, considering the only thing we care about are records...

Do we know which of those big cities set records? Moscow looked pretty pathetic and if I remember correctly, Geneva wasn't looking to hot either.

Don't try to change the subject. My response was to your claim that the IIHF fears large cities, when they obviously do not.

The IIHF knows that tournaments outside Canada are not going to break the records that we set every time we host the tournament.

Bottom line, having an NHL team should not be a black mark on a city bidding for this tournament. If Vancouver, Ottawa or Edmonton can put on a better show than London/Kitchener, then by all means, give the tournament to Vancouver, Ottawa or Edmonton.

 

[goteam]

Saskatoon is a possibility if Regina gets some games too, but that isn't likely...

Regina has been guaranteed 10 games-----and has already nearly sold out the pre-tournament packages.

 

[Tricolore#20]

Pat Laforge of the Oilers said that the short list for the host city will be made today. It will consist of between 3-5 candidates. He sounds extremely confident that the Oilers will win the bid, because Rexall Place and the Agricom are within walking distance. He contends that other candidates, such as Ottawa have facilities too far apart, relative to the Edmonton rinks. In addition, he says that Kevin Lowe's commitment to Hockey Canada, as well as the Oilers' support of the World Championship squad every year, should help their bid.

Edmonton has an outstanding record of hosting major international tournaments, and it is this reputation that is being sold to Hockey Canada.

 

[Slats432]

Pat Laforge of the Oilers said that the short list for the host city will be made today. It will consist of between 3-5 candidates. He sounds extremely confident that the Oilers will win the bid, because Rexall Place and the Agricom are within walking distance. He contends that other candidates, such as Ottawa have facilities too far apart, relative to the Edmonton rinks. In addition, he says that Kevin Lowe's commitment to Hockey Canada, as well as the Oilers' support of the World Championship squad every year, should help their bid.

Edmonton has an outstanding record of hosting major international tournaments, and it is this reputation that is being sold to Hockey Canada.

Please oh Please.

 

[YellHockey*]

Pat Laforge of the Oilers said that the short list for the host city will be made today. It will consist of between 3-5 candidates. He sounds extremely confident that the Oilers will win the bid, because Rexall Place and the Agricom are within walking distance. He contends that other candidates, such as Ottawa have facilities too far apart, relative to the Edmonton rinks. In addition, he says that Kevin Lowe's commitment to Hockey Canada, as well as the Oilers' support of the World Championship squad every year, should help their bid.

Has the tournament ever been held at venues within walking distance of each other? Wouldn't that make parking a nightmare?

Of course he's going to sound confident. What else is he going to say?
"It's a crapshoot and there's no real reason to pick Edmonton over any of the other bids.

So you can't walk to the Corel Centre from the Civic Centre and vice versa. Big deal. It's a 20 minute drive.

As for the Oilers' support of the WC squad why should Ottawa be punished because their NHL team makes the playoffs every year?

 

[PEli*]

Don't try to change the subject. My response was to your claim that the IIHF fears large cities, when they obviously do not.

The IIHF knows that tournaments outside Canada are not going to break the records that we set every time we host the tournament.

Bottom line, having an NHL team should not be a black mark on a city bidding for this tournament. If Vancouver, Ottawa or Edmonton can put on a better show than London/Kitchener, then by all means, give the tournament to Vancouver, Ottawa or Edmonton.

This is going nowhere.

Change the subject? I'm pretty sure that if you sift through the previous posts, you'll find that setting records was one of the subjects. See for yourself. Any info on those big cities though? With regards to setting records, I mean.

If Vancouver, Edmonton or Ottawa can provide a great tournament, fine. That's great for the Canadian Hockey Association, the IIHF and the fans in the lucky city to get the tournament. I've already stated my point about five or six times and it's getting nowhere.

Right on though. Good luck to the bidders. I'll be pulling for the little guys all the way.