20-21 Season Tank Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

[SamInVan]

Imo Holtby gives us the better chance to lose, and get a higher puck though. Still play Demko, but get Holtby in there an even amount.

As we have seen in the past 2 months we are losing regardless of the goalie so may as well give Demko the starts to get experience working as a #1.

 

[rypper]

Don't forget Holtby. A lot of people for some reason think Seattle will take him but I don't see it. I could easily see them going with someone like Fleury or Lehner as their starter, and won't want a $4.3M backup.

5.7m back up.

 

[Fatass]

As we have seen in the past 2 months we are losing regardless of the goalie so may as well give Demko the starts to get experience working as a #1.

As long as we continue to stay in a top five pick spot fir sure that’s okay. But if a we see “bubble Demko” start stealing games, and we are climbing the standing, then get HOLtby in there. Some good looking D in the top five if this draft.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

It has reached the point I'd almost say give up our first, regardless of the position, if it meant a guaranteed full clean slate from Benning down to Green and everyone in between. If it wasn't obvious already, this team is going absolutely nowhere with Benning at the helm except straight into the iceberg.

 

[4Twenty]

Don't forget Holtby. A lot of people for some reason think Seattle will take him but I don't see it. I could easily see them going with someone like Fleury or Lehner as their starter, and won't want a $4.3M backup.

Demko might be able to be re-signed cheaper than he should given what his counting stats look like this year. But I would almost rather add a bit more and try to get him locked up to a 4-year term. If you can go to $3 or $3.5M per on a 4-year term that could prove to be very valuable towards the back end of that deal.

See I don't really get this, the top guys are worth 8 year deals, the goalie worth 4 years, but they're mediocre again? But then just magically flip the following years?

I think if you believe in those guys you build around them now. I definitely see a way to building a playoff team next season and an improving contender beyond.

Sign:
Pettersson 5 years $8.5m, call it the Aho effect
Hughes 3 years $7.25m, highest scoring dman ever coming off an elc, lacks bigger leverage with 10.2c
Demko 3 years $3m,
Juolevi 2 years $1m
Podkolzin 3 years $925k (ELC)

Bury in Minors:
Eriksson $4.925m cap hit
Roussel $1.925m caphit

Stuck with:
Beagle $3m
Holtby $4.3m
Myers $6m

Before doing anything else, this projected lineup needs two top 4 dmen and an entire 3rd line. 15 roster spots taken by:

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser
Hoglander-Bo-Podkolzin (these could the 3rd line wingers)
*****-*****-*****
Motte-Beagle-Macewan

Hughes-*****
*****-Schmidt
Juolevi-Myers

Demko
Holtby

8 roster spots, $12m to spend. $1.5m for each spot. Say the 13th forward and 7th and 8th D are league minimum $750k guys.

$9.75m to strategically fill 5 key roster spots on 1 yr deals is doable IMO.


edit* these are not guys I want, but just illustrating the example but....You could afford to add these 1 year signings from this past season for ~$10m they would have to spend.

Haula $1.75m
Soderberg $1m
Vatanen $2m
Hoffman $4m
Ceci $1.25m

 

[RandV]

We have Loui and Myers next season along with the Luongo recapture. $15M with Myers worth maybe $2M. Potentially we have Beagle and Roussel still around. Another $6M.

We either tank intentionally next season and come out better going forward, or we tank unintentionally and come out not so good.

If those players could be moved . . . well . . .

looking at you @RandV

I'm just itching for the Wheel of Time Amazon series trailer to come out so I can start a thread on the entertainment board but the name is entirely coincidental, and I'm more a Matt fan anyways. I've just always been a "Rand".

 

[I am toxic]

I'm just itching for the Wheel of Time Amazon series trailer to come out so I can start a thread on the entertainment board but the name is entirely coincidental, and I'm more a Matt fan anyways. I've just always been a "Rand".

Yeah, Mat and Nynaeve are my two favorites, hands down. Hoping the series does Jordan justice.

 

[I am toxic]

See I don't really get this, the top guys are worth 8 year deals, the goalie worth 4 years, but they're mediocre again? But then just magically flip the following years?

I think if you believe in those guys you build around them now. I definitely see a way to building a playoff team next season and an improving contender beyond.

Sign:
Pettersson 5 years $8.5m, call it the Aho effect
Hughes 3 years $7.25m, highest scoring dman ever coming off an elc, lacks bigger leverage with 10.2c
Demko 3 years $3m,
Juolevi 2 years $1m
Podkolzin 3 years $925k (ELC)

Bury in Minors:
Eriksson $4.925m cap hit
Roussel $1.925m caphit

Stuck with:
Beagle $3m
Holtby $4.3m
Myers $6m

Before doing anything else, this projected lineup needs two top 4 dmen and an entire 3rd line. 15 roster spots taken by:

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser
Hoglander-Bo-Podkolzin (these could the 3rd line wingers)
*****-*****-*****
Motte-Beagle-Macewan

Hughes-*****
*****-Schmidt
Juolevi-Myers

Demko
Holtby

8 roster spots, $12m to spend. $1.5m for each spot. Say the 13th forward and 7th and 8th D are league minimum $750k guys.

$9.75m to strategically fill 5 key roster spots on 1 yr deals is doable IMO.

Is Luongo recapture included in those numbers?

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Fair.

I just think with some Bill Zito like management the Canucks could backfill the 23 with quality veterans next year. Getting rid of contracts will be tough but we need somebody else pulling the strings.

The tank for me is about new management. Not asset accumulation.

Here is the rub: in seven years the Benning/FA regime has sources 6-7 excellent NHLs. Really good players that most any top team would love to welcome.
But and it's a BIG BUT, it takes a 20 man roster of good to excellent players to win the Cup.

So returning to the rate of acquisition of Assets by the Benning/FA regime as 1 asset per year, it would take 14 more years to assemble a 20 man roster of good to excellent players to win the Cup, but of course over the 20 years it took them to assemble a 20 man roster there would be attrition.

Overall some Nucks supporters appear unaware of the stage the Canucks are in the long accent to the summit of winning a championship.

Making the playoffs is not winning a championship.

Having some good players is not winning a championship.

Draft alone is not going to result in the number of excellent players in a short enough time period to create a cup competitor.

Hiring a gifted President and then a miracle working GM will probably not result in a near term Cup competitor.

Acquiring new players should always be viewed with the question whether the new acquisition is good enough to play on a Cup contender, not whether they fit a need on the current roster or will they help the Nucks make the playoff etc

Finally, not winning the Cup is failure and currently 30 teams fail every year.

Summary, the Canucks are not close to being a Cup contender, and the rebuild could be many years in the making.

If winning the cup was easy and the current and previous owners and management and coaches and players were/are so great the franchise would have already won a Cup in its 51 years of existence.

This is why the supporters should demand supremely talented management because the past has illustrated that simply being fair to middling management won't do the job of winning a Cup.

The pain of the past retooling on the fly for seven years doesn't matter anymore and people should attempt to embrace the Tank because it could be this way for several years before winning a Cup is realistic once again.

Brace for another gale of failure, folks and set your sights on the sunny horizon.

It is as it has always been.

 

[I am toxic]

Don't forget Holtby. A lot of people for some reason think Seattle will take him but I don't see it. I could easily see them going with someone like Fleury or Lehner as their starter, and won't want a $4.3M backup.

Demko might be able to be re-signed cheaper than he should given what his counting stats look like this year. But I would almost rather add a bit more and try to get him locked up to a 4-year term. If you can go to $3 or $3.5M per on a 4-year term that could prove to be very valuable towards the back end of that deal.

Kami cannot be stupid enough to recommend taking Holtby.

 

[4Twenty]

Is Luongo recapture included in those numbers?

Yup, it's made in cap friendly.

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
15	$81,500,000	$69,276,879	$0	$200,000	$12,223,121

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Miller, J.T. $5,250,000 LW UFA - 2	Pettersson, Elias $8,500,000 C RFA	Boeser, Brock $5,875,000 RW RFA - 1
Höglander, Nils $891,667 LW, RW RFA - 2	Horvat, Bo $5,500,000 C UFA - 2	Podkolzin, Vasily $925,000 RW RFA
Motte, Tyler $1,225,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Beagle, Jay $3,000,000 C M-NTC UFA - 1	MacEwen, Zack $825,000 C, RW RFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Hughes, Quinn $7,250,000 LD RFA	Schmidt, Nate $5,950,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 4	Holtby, Braden $4,300,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Juolevi, Olli $1,000,000 LD RFA	Myers, Tyler $6,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3	Demko, Thatcher $3,000,000 G RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Ferland, Micheal $3,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2
		Virtanen, Jake $2,550,000 RW, LW RFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Taxi Squad
Eriksson, Loui $6,000,000 ($4,875,000) LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1
DiPietro, Michael $811,667 ($0) G RFA - 1
Roussel, Antoine $3,000,000 ($1,875,000) LW M-NTC UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Cant fix the formatting but Jake is in LTIR because he's my proposed trade or expansion loss. Ferland is also LTIR not scratch. Taxi squad is buried.

 

[Pavel96]

It has reached the point I'd almost say give up our first, regardless of the position, if it meant a guaranteed full clean slate from Benning down to Green and everyone in between. If it wasn't obvious already, this team is going absolutely nowhere with Benning at the helm except straight into the iceberg.

Just throw in a second too if it means for sure this gets done.

 

[I am toxic]

Yup, it's made in cap friendly.

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
15	$81,500,000	$69,276,879	$0	$200,000	$12,223,121

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Miller, J.T. $5,250,000 LW UFA - 2	Pettersson, Elias $8,500,000 C RFA	Boeser, Brock $5,875,000 RW RFA - 1
Höglander, Nils $891,667 LW, RW RFA - 2	Horvat, Bo $5,500,000 C UFA - 2	Podkolzin, Vasily $925,000 RW RFA
Motte, Tyler $1,225,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Beagle, Jay $3,000,000 C M-NTC UFA - 1	MacEwen, Zack $825,000 C, RW RFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Hughes, Quinn $7,250,000 LD RFA	Schmidt, Nate $5,950,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 4	Holtby, Braden $4,300,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Juolevi, Olli $1,000,000 LD RFA	Myers, Tyler $6,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3	Demko, Thatcher $3,000,000 G RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Ferland, Micheal $3,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2
		Virtanen, Jake $2,550,000 RW, LW RFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Taxi Squad
Eriksson, Loui $6,000,000 ($4,875,000) LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1
DiPietro, Michael $811,667 ($0) G RFA - 1
Roussel, Antoine $3,000,000 ($1,875,000) LW M-NTC UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Cant fix the formatting but Jake is in LTIR because he's my proposed trade or expansion loss. Ferland is also LTIR not scratch. Taxi squad is buried.

Looks possible. Would be hard for a wizard GM to get all of them, but at least it's possible.

However, a single long-term injury to a top 4D or goalie or Petey and we're done. No?

 

[4Twenty]

Looks possible. Would be hard for a wizard GM to get all of them, but at least it's possible.

However, a single long-term injury to a top 4D or goalie or Petey and we're done. No?

Well that's last years list. Doesn't include any possible trades. It's just meant to show it's possible.

This upcoming offseason will be different. It's definitely not an easy job, but IMO it's not a tanking mission.

I mean, Roussel is only owed $1.9m in real cash....that has potential to move, even if it's to a team with retention.

Eriksson I would be shooting pucks at in practice until he quits from injury physical or mental. If that finds it way into the LTIR well then we're cooking with gas.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Haula $1.75m
Anthanasiou $1.2m
Duclair $1.7m
Kahun $975k
Soderberg $1m
Wallmark $950k
Verhaege $1m


If Pearson and 2 points in 15 Hoglander are second liners these guys are close.

2/3 Tweeners can be found in UFA.

I also but an unreasonable cap on it. Go to $2.75m and see the quality you’ll be able to sign.

Look at what Florida did this offseason. That’s what I’m talking about. Smart managers can fill out their rosters in FA cheap.

the Hoglander love affair needs to stop. He has points in 1 of the last 10 games. I don’t care how many board battles you win, can’t produce at a 25 point pace and be a minus 10 and be a top 6 player.

 

[RandV]

Looks possible. Would be hard for a wizard GM to get all of them, but at least it's possible.

However, a single long-term injury to a top 4D or goalie or Petey and we're done. No?

That's just what is hopefully year 1 post-Benning though, which if done right I would set the expectations to be a bubble team that just missed the playoffs. Year 2 when you cut Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, and Holtby from the equation should be the timeline for being a 'good' team again. Like if Mike Gillis was running the team that's what I would expect, as he was exceptionally good at filling those spots.

 

[4Twenty]

the Hoglander love affair needs to stop. He has points in 1 of the last 10 games. I don’t care how many board battles you win, can’t produce at a 25 point pace and be a minus 10 and be a top 6 player.

He's a rookie. He's an nhl player. I see him as a top 9 forward next year.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Well that's last years list. Doesn't include any possible trades. It's just meant to show it's possible.

This upcoming offseason will be different. It's definitely not an easy job, but IMO it's not a tanking mission.

I mean, Roussel is only owed $1.9m in real cash....that has potential to move, even if it's to a team with retention.

Eriksson I would be shooting pucks at in practice until he quits from injury physical or mental. If that finds it way into the LTIR well then we're cooking with gas.

I heard there was an epidemic of latex allergies amongst players making bank above 6M when their performance drops off...

 

[m9]

Going to need to add some EP/Hughes 2020-21 bonuses into any 2021-22 cap projections.

 

[theguardianII]

It has reached the point I'd almost say give up our first, regardless of the position, if it meant a guaranteed full clean slate from Benning down to Green and everyone in between. If it wasn't obvious already, this team is going absolutely nowhere with Benning at the helm except straight into the iceberg.

The team is pretty much going in that direction.
I think Mr. Aquilini just decided to not fire people, pay them but restrict their duties and let the new regime make the decisions on personnel that way he isn't accused of interfering with the team.
He is stopping Benning from taking any more poison pill contracts or trading away any more of the future.
Pretty sure Benning's contract is up, they will not exercise the option.

A new hire should take place within the next 3 weeks, maybe sooner if the team loses the next 3 games, that would suffice to have Benning have THE WORST RECORD OF ALL TIME for the Canucks and very close in the NHL overall.

As far as someone posting the Benning/FA regime, FA owns the team, so every group is included there, the Gillis/FA regime won more games in 3 years than Benning's in 5 years.

I think a reporter has already hit the nail on the head for the new regime.
Gillis as President, the most successful GM in Canuck history with Quinn a very, very close second.
Gilman as GM, how many Eriksson, Ferland, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter contracts did they ever sign?
Great cap management, 5+ mil and an expiring contract available every off season.
UFA's signing for less to play here, Benning keeps saying he had to over pay.
Gillis - two President cups, best team in the regular season, 4 divisional titles, one conference championship and a cup appearance.
Innovative systems put in place, buying their own Farm Team. Using stats to help select players.
I forget who the capologist was
The stats guy ended GM in Arizona

 

[theguardianII]

I agree, as long as there is a plan, then I'm on board. I don't really see any scenario where the organization comes out ahead if we take the path of trading Hughes or Horvat, but it doesn't hurt to listen to offers.
All expiring contracts should be moved for picks (however low) or prospects (however long shot). Freeing up cap space is priority #1 for next season. (Well getting a new management team is priority #1 but at this point I'm guessing that goes without saying).

Just joking but
Horvat for Eichel
Hughes for Dahlin

 

[mriswith]

Just joking but
Horvat for Eichel
Hughes for Dahlin

They want something more like Horvat, Boeser, Pod for Eichel. And I'd still do it.

I'd do the Hughes for Dahlin trade today but time is running out for that deal. They're ruining Dahlin and if he doesn't get traded or they don't figure things out in Buffalo soon he's not going to ever be as good as Hughes.

 

[y2kcanucks]

See I don't really get this, the top guys are worth 8 year deals, the goalie worth 4 years, but they're mediocre again? But then just magically flip the following years?

I think if you believe in those guys you build around them now. I definitely see a way to building a playoff team next season and an improving contender beyond.

Sign:
Pettersson 5 years $8.5m, call it the Aho effect
Hughes 3 years $7.25m, highest scoring dman ever coming off an elc, lacks bigger leverage with 10.2c
Demko 3 years $3m,
Juolevi 2 years $1m
Podkolzin 3 years $925k (ELC)

Bury in Minors:
Eriksson $4.925m cap hit
Roussel $1.925m caphit

Stuck with:
Beagle $3m
Holtby $4.3m
Myers $6m

Before doing anything else, this projected lineup needs two top 4 dmen and an entire 3rd line. 15 roster spots taken by:

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser
Hoglander-Bo-Podkolzin (these could the 3rd line wingers)
*****-*****-*****
Motte-Beagle-Macewan

Hughes-*****
*****-Schmidt
Juolevi-Myers

Demko
Holtby

8 roster spots, $12m to spend. $1.5m for each spot. Say the 13th forward and 7th and 8th D are league minimum $750k guys.

$9.75m to strategically fill 5 key roster spots on 1 yr deals is doable IMO.


edit* these are not guys I want, but just illustrating the example but....You could afford to add these 1 year signings from this past season for ~$10m they would have to spend.

Haula $1.75m
Soderberg $1m
Vatanen $2m
Hoffman $4m
Ceci $1.25m

So you're left with $12M to spend and you need 2 top 4 defensemen, 2 top 6 forwards, a 3C, and depth.

That 4th line is very ugly and will be under water at even strength all year. That bottom pairing is garbage and will be under water all year. To think you can build a playoff team despite that many holes is simply not realistic.

I'm not saying anything will magically flip after 2 seasons. I'm saying we will be rid of (most of) the bad contracts. After 2 years of aggressive rebuilding we will have more draft picks/prospects/young players in the system coming up, and we'll have a lot more cap space to strategically fill out the rest of the team. I'm not saying we will automatically be a contender by year 3, but that this is the year we should be able to look at a serious upswing and building something. But for the next 1-2 years the focus should be solely on ridding ourselves of the bad contracts, stockpiling as many picks and prospects as we can, and refocusing our core.

 

[y2kcanucks]

the Hoglander love affair needs to stop. He has points in 1 of the last 10 games. I don’t care how many board battles you win, can’t produce at a 25 point pace and be a minus 10 and be a top 6 player.

Absolutely agreed. And I'm very high on Hoglander too, but I get a lot of Jannik Hansen vibes from him (beyond them sharing that number). Very good player, but not someone you want to rely on in a top 6 role. Someone who can perhaps jump up if the coach needs to juggle his lines, or in the event of an injury. But ideally you have Hoglander on the 3rd line.

 

[Lindgren]

So you're left with $12M to spend and you need 2 top 4 defensemen, 2 top 6 forwards, a 3C, and depth.

That 4th line is very ugly and will be under water at even strength all year. That bottom pairing is garbage and will be under water all year. To think you can build a playoff team despite that many holes is simply not realistic.

I'm not saying anything will magically flip after 2 seasons. I'm saying we will be rid of (most of) the bad contracts. After 2 years of aggressive rebuilding we will have more draft picks/prospects/young players in the system coming up, and we'll have a lot more cap space to strategically fill out the rest of the team. I'm not saying we will automatically be a contender by year 3, but that this is the year we should be able to look at a serious upswing and building something. But for the next 1-2 years the focus should be solely on ridding ourselves of the bad contracts, stockpiling as many picks and prospects as we can, and refocusing our core.

The logic here seems irrefutable to me, but, obviously, some respond differently. It just seems so clear to me that this should be the plan in the immediate future.