Post-Game Talk: #2| New Jersey at FLYERS |Thu., Oct. 9, 2014|

[Beef Invictus]

I too was furious at Berube for slopping Schenn with Vinny again. Just keep him.on the top line.

 

[Solefool]

I'm a Brayden supporter for one reason, IF we trade him he will JVR us and explode. He has the size, skill, just not the confidence.

The problem with that analogy is that JVR actually flashed his amazing potential. There were sequences throughout games where he looked like the best player on the ice. He dominated a playoff series.

Has Schenn ever flashed like that? I honestly don't see much offensive skill to his game. Forget about production for a second, strictly talking skill level, shouldn't he be able to put that on display regardless of who his linemates are? I just don't see it with him.

I'm not saying he has to go or I don't want him on the roster anymore, I'm just saying I wouldn't be worried about him breaking out if we do eventually deal him.

 

[Solefool]

The Schenn comparisons to JVR are pretty thin if you ask me. JVR showed us all that he was capable of becoming an elite/gamebreaking winger. His biggest problem was consistency. He's since figured it out and become the player he was projected to be when he was drafted.

Schenn hasn't shown much to me that screams "elite talent". The best we can hope from him, imo, is a Nathan Horton with the Bruins type. He can pot you 25 goals, but he's not a guy that's capable of driving the play. That's not the end of the world, but it's certainly not the player he was projected to be at the draft, much like Horton was in 2003.

Yes, this is exactly how I feel.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Berube needs to keep Schenn on the top line, but I also don't have trust in Berube to handle his bench or lines well at all. He showed zero ability to do that last season and definitely isn't doing it two games into this season.

I also don't have faith that Schenn will ever be what he was potentially supposed to be or that he's all that unique or impressive of a player. He might top out a shade below what JVR is, but that's still entirely disappointing to me and many others. That's just how I view him and his career path though. Throwing him on every which line is silly and it's never wise to trade a player like him unless it's needed. There's also at least a couple other problems far bigger then him. If we're going by individual players then there's a lot more problematic then he is.

 

[Curufinwe]

Beside Giroux and Voracek, is there any other forward on this team that can create offense? Maybe Matt Read. The Flyers were 8th overall in scoring last year but only 15th at even strength. If you minus empty nets goals, they were 18th. And it's not like the Flyers play a tight checking defensive system either as they were 21st n even strength goals allowed.

I know the defense is a cluster, but the forwards needs a little blame too as they are a pretty average group IMO. Simmonds is an elite power forward and Giroux and Voracek are top 10 at their position but other than that, there isn't a lot of skill up front.

I don't know about creating offense, but Read, BSchenn, Couturier, Lecavalier and Raffl all put up solid ES points numbers last season.

Giroux 49 ESP in 1,290:55 (21.52 hours) = 2.277 ESP per 60 mins
Voracek 39 ESP in 1,135:05 (18.92 hours) = 2.061
Simmonds 36 ESP in 1,093:09 (18.22 hours) = 1.976
Read 34 ESP in 1,059:49 (17.66 hours) = 1.925
BSchenn 32 ESP in 1,099:11 (18.32 hours) = 1.747
Couturier 31 ESP in 1,179:01 (19.65 hours) = 1.578
Lecavalier 24 ESP in 876:20 (14.61 hours) = 1.643
Raffl 22 ESP in 752:45 (12.55 hours) = 1.753

That is 8 of our current top 9.

 

[PK16]

I must admit that I have not read through this whole thread, and maybe this comment has already been made, so I will apologize upfront if that is the case.

I don't think B. Schenn is bad player, I just think that he may not play a game that is suited for the first line with Jake and G. He seems to be a step behind those guys in terms of speed and/or processing of the play to be in a position to score and take advantage of Jake's speed and G's passing. Schenn seems to lack the awareness to contribute significantly on a line that requires that kind of excellent awareness with those guys. I thought he looked better on a line that didn't have Jake and G on it. Like many others on this board, I would like him to be our answer at 1LW, but so far I am not seeing it. Hopefully, it is just a function of needing more experience on the line with Jake and G that will make something click with Schenn.

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

I too was furious at Berube for slopping Schenn with Vinny again. Just keep him.on the top line.

This annoyed me greatly. I had when coaches line jumble so much, especially at the start of the season, let them play together for ****s sake. See what happens after 5-6 games. Plus Vinny and Schenn sucked last year together, so stop doing it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hartnell did OK with G and V for the most part, and he was known for a lack of awareness and being a step behind.

 

[Rebels57]

The Devils committed about a half a dozen penalties right before the ENG. Good to see consistency is still the name of the game.

The non-call when Giroux was hugged and tackled in front of the ref was absolutely egregious. It was right around the 1:52 mark. I rewound, paused it, and took a picture to remind myself every game of how atrocious NHL refs are.

 

[blinds]

I must admit that I have not read through this whole thread, and maybe this comment has already been made, so I will apologize upfront if that is the case.

I don't think B. Schenn is bad player, I just think that he may not play a game that is suited for the first line with Jake and G. He seems to be a step behind those guys in terms of speed and/or processing of the play to be in a position to score and take advantage of Jake's speed and G's passing. Schenn seems to lack the awareness to contribute significantly on a line that requires that kind of excellent awareness with those guys. I thought he looked better on a line that didn't have Jake and G on it. Like many others on this board, I would like him to be our answer at 1LW, but so far I am not seeing it. Hopefully, it is just a function of needing more experience on the line with Jake and G that will make something click with Schenn.

I don't think so, if anything I think it's just a learning curve. Schenn knows the role, he immediately goes to battle on the boards for pucks or set up in front of the net once we have possession. I just think our first line has been awful at ES so far. Giroux and Voracek were both -4 last night and I don't think they set up any decent scoring chances against Boston together (Voracek did alone on the Couts goal). Schenn isn't entirely at fault for the first line not playing well, Giroux and Voracek have been poor at ES so far.

My issue is with Berube, it's entirely ridiculous for Berube to panic not even two games in and switch the lines back to what we know didn't work last season. He panicked and did it in Game 7 too and it didn't work then either. Raffl has no business being on the top line. Schenn-Vinny-Simmonds is a terrible line. Giroux needs to play more instead of even distribution and line matching. Just stick with what we had. And the sad part is he actually thinks his line changes helped, when it was the powerplay and Couts' new line with Simmonds that got us back in the game before our defense took us out of it.

 

[Rebels57]

Had to mute CSN because I heard "Mason had no chance" on each one of the first four goals. So tired of hearing that goaltenders have "no chance" on deflections and one-timers, as if it is impossible to save.

Um, but he did have no chance. First goal he was 100% screened by Lecavalier. The second goal went off of Schenns skate after Lecavalier turned it over. The 3rd goal was a ridiculous deflection as Cammalerri skated by the net. The 4th goal was a slam dunk, one timer after a Devil was left wide open in front of the net.

There was plenty to be sick of last night, but hearing a factual statement like "Mason had no chance" on the first 4 goals isn't one of them. Don't be that guy. That Flyers fan that blames every goal on the goalie.

 

[PK16]

Hartnell did OK with G and V for the most part, and he was known for a lack of awareness and being a step behind.

Agreed. But last night it often seemed like the first line was playing shorthanded with 2 forwards out there. I saw very limited contribution from Schenn. It is only one game and I would suggest they continue with the Schenn for some time to see if he can contribute, but if it continues to be like last night, you could make a case for putting someone else in that spot. Akeson?

 

[Appleyard]

They should give Schenn 10 or so games really.

I really would prefer him or Couturier on PP1 to Lecavalier as well... just as they may actually do what they are supposed to... it is not that hard!

Vinny was constantly drifting to the right and backwards to give himself space, instead of going to the net when Simmonds gets the puck behind or Jake cycles to the blueline, and staying pat when Giroux has the puck.

It meant the D could cheat on Simmonds and it gave Giroux and Streit less time.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Man, I just saw the highlights(listened on the radio again last night), Mason was terrible. Defense or not being bad, Mason let in 3-4 goals that were very stoppable goals. If we want to proclaim he has turned it around he needs to make them saves as well, he was dreadful.

i cant tell if ur serious with this post or not..

i hope not...

goal#5 was his ONLy softie...

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Hope you're not counting Pronger because everyone has known his status for quite a long time now.

Also has nothing to do with what I posted, but whatever.

Pronger still counts because, if he was healthy, he would still be the best defenseman on the Flyers.

You were bemoaning the loss of Coburn and how important he is. The impact of a Coburn injury is significantly less if the Flyers had a healthy Pronger and a healthy Timonen.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm new here so this is the first time I have checked out a gameday thread, and I have to say, there is an embarassing amount of knee-jerk comments and reactions around here.

They just played a tough game in Boston the night before. They find out they won't have Coburn before the game. Then they have to play a NJ team who is playing their first game of the season. We go down 3-0 and fight back to make it 3-3 against a team world-renowned for locking down leads, before ultimately losing. Sure it was ugly, but to call last night a sign of the Flyerpocalypse is truly ridiculous.

Anyways, my take on some of the individual performances and what led to goals..

The first 2 goals were both as a result of Del Zotto aggressively pinching in and Lecavalier being back on defense to cover for him. I don't mind MDZ being aggressive, but Lecavalier being back on defense is a nightmare. Hopefully he wil be more cognizant of who he is on the ice with and when will be a good time to pinch in. Lecavalier screened Mason on the 1st goal and then turned it over leading to the 2nd goal. To Vinnys credit, he went on to have a solid game from that point forward with the great assist on the 3rd goal and the great shot on the 4th goal.

The 3rd goal on us had a lot to do with luck honestly. Jagr just threw it on net and Cammalerri was cruising by at the right time and made a perfect deflection. No one was actually out of position. Sometimes you get beat by a good play. This was the only case of that tonight.

The 4th goal, both Schenn and Del Zotto were way out of position. MDZ was defending out near the blueline. Schenn chased his man into the corner and when he was beat, Giroux then collapsed into the corner as well, leaving a Devil wide open in front. That's terrible defense all around. The front of the net is always priority #1.

The 5th goal, once again was a result of a defensemen getting caught in pinching. This time I think it was MacDonald, as Schenn was other defensemen on the ice and MDZ and Schenn were split up after the last goal. Voracek hustled back to put pressure on the puck carrier, but Luke Schenn was late getting over to Zubrus and then seemed passive once he got near him to make a strong play at the puck with his stick. Schenn misplayed that one..badly. Mason should have made the save. Only goal he had a chance on all night.

Offensively, MDZ put some great shots on net, but he and Schenn don't have that chemistry down yet. I think it would ultimately be a better idea to have Schenn with a less aggresive defensemen. Schenn-Mac are the only pairing that won't make both of these guys look terrible. I would try MDZ with both Grossmann and Coburn and see which works better.

As for Grossmann, he sucks Sucks SUCKS. There's no other way around it. How does Berube not see this? There is no possible way that Mark Alt would not be a better option. After last night, I am also convinced that Nick Schultz is a better option.

Simmonds was an absolute beast last night. If Berube can find the right mix for the 2nd line that can contribute more at ES, then Simmonds will score 35 goals. He may have the strongest stick in front of the net in the NHL right now.

Calm down, people. We aren't doomed yet!

 

[BillDineen]

L. Schenn looked good when he first came to the nhl and then again two seasons ago (not at pre-draft hype levels though). He is fine when playing with confidence, but when he doesn't have confidence and hesitates, his extreme slowness compounds mistakes. He may be at the point of no return.

B. Schenn should be forced into a 40 game trial at least as 1LW. There is still hope where he is concerned if Berube actually gives him the opportunity.

 

[YEM]

Then they have to play a NJ team who is playing their first game of the season. We go down 3-0 and fight back to make it 3-3 against a team world-renowned for locking down leads,

this is not the Devils of the year 2000, this is a team that missed the playoffs by a decent amount last season

team is not doomed, it's just very clear that we're transitioning & going to go through some growing pains this season. I just hope that if we're going to be mired in mediocrity throughout the season we have the foresight to try and unload some pieces at the deadline and possibly make a Zhitnik-for-Coburn type move [I can dream] as the D overhaul is now the most important factor in building this team...

 

[Rebels57]

The problem with that analogy is that JVR actually flashed his amazing potential. There were sequences throughout games where he looked like the best player on the ice. He dominated a playoff series.

Has Schenn ever flashed like that? I honestly don't see much offensive skill to his game. Forget about production for a second, strictly talking skill level, shouldn't he be able to put that on display regardless of who his linemates are? I just don't see it with him.

I'm not saying he has to go or I don't want him on the roster anymore, I'm just saying I wouldn't be worried about him breaking out if we do eventually deal him.

I agree. Schenn has never flashed the type of skill JVR showed here in the playoffs.

Schenn, skill wise to me, is a 2nd liner at best. He has slow feet. His acceleration is horrid and his top speed is only average. That doesn't mean he can't compliment a top line though. Not many top lines in that league have 3 players on it with top line skill. Patrick Maroon is playing on Anaheims top line. If he can crash the net, cycle well, be physical, etc he can be effective on that line.

 

[Curufinwe]

They only missed the playoffs due to an unbelievably bad SO record. In actual hockey games they were about the same as us.

Flyers had 91 points not counting shootouts, Devils had 88.

 

[Rebels57]

this is not the Devils of the year 2000, this is a team that missed the playoffs by a decent amount last season

team is not doomed, it's just very clear that we're transitioning & going to go through some growing pains this season. I just hope that if we're going to be mired in mediocrity throughout the season we have the foresight to try and unload some pieces at the deadline and possibly make a Zhitnik-for-Coburn type move [I can dream] as the D overhaul is now the most important factor in building this team...

The Devils only missed the playoffs because of an 0-13 shootout record. They were a playoff team in a "shootout free" world.

 

[YEM]

every team that missed the playoffs by a bit has a good excuse as to why
fact remains that they weren't a playoff team in 13-14

 

[hatcher]

Again half the game missed by forwards and then needed a PP goal to get going. G,Simmer,Voracek should be off the table and all of the D and B.Schenn all traded to get speed,skill,size, into this boring dead lineup. Thanks Homer!

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

The Devils only missed the playoffs because of an 0-13 shootout record. They were a playoff team in a "shootout free" world.

So what? This isn't a shootout free world.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

They only missed the playoffs due to an unbelievably bad SO record. In actual hockey games they were about the same as us.

Flyers had 91 points not counting shootouts, Devils had 88.

not many teams could suck and blow at the SO. The Devils managed to do that.
The Flyers just sucked at it.