GDT: #2 ⋅ ANA @ VGK ⋅ 7:00 PM PDT

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
98,751
34,582
Las Vegas
So from my view these are my general thoughts

Zegras: one of our better forwards but I feel like he would be better served if he moved for open ice with a little more confidence like that chance he had against San Jose where he more or less split a sleeping defense. Mac's poor puck management is holding him back.

Mac: for all the shit Killorn and Gauthier are taking I thought Mac was just as much of a net negative if not more so. He's just not thinking before he makes plays, he can't win a faceoff, he's not defending well. At best the puck will find him and he'll take a low danger shot from the faceoff dots. I get rust is possible but this guy is really concerning me. I'm starting to get the sense that there's a real hockey IQ issue here.

Carlsson: from my view in the lower bowl, yeah he didn't have a good game. I'm not going to sugar coat that. But to play devil's advocate a bit, it did look like most pucks that came to him were bouncing or rolling and I think the bigger issue tonight was settling pucks and getting possession than making smart choices with the puck. It didn't help that Killorn turned the puck over 90% of the time he touched it and that forced his line to do a lot of skating back to the defensive zone, but a guy with his abilities does need to be more adept at getting to loose pucks and dictating o-zone possession. And he still needs to work on faceoffs.

Killorn: I mean this was just about as poor a game as you can get for a forward. I can count the times he had the puck and didn't cause it to result in a Vegas possession on one hand and I can't really credit him for easy two foot passes with no defensive pressure. He was constantly behind the play, he lost every battle, he was abysmal at triggering transition play, and he even inadvertently blocked his own teammates' shots and passes at least 3-4 times. I get there's rust and I get he'd older, but this is below replacement level hockey. Leo and Cutter were not good enough but Killorn was an active and pervasive disruption to the line's ability to establish any flow or possession and that's two games in a row.

Luneau: I'm not against sending him to the AHL for conditioning but I don't think he was like this utter incompetent who isn't ready for this level. I thought outside of the shitty turnover, he actually played a pretty solid game. He had one other time he mistimed his defensive coverage but I can't really think of any other poor plays and he was one of the most engaged blueliners at actually mixing up the offensive play.

Cutter: I liked his energy tonight overall but he's still playing too...jumpy is the best word I have for it. He made at least four passes without looking just assuming a teammate would be there. I actually feel like his physical tools and general style of play works just fine for this level of hockey. He just needs to calm down and think/look before he passes the puck. Maybe some AHL time would help but I feel it's something he can work on it before we send him down.

Mintyukov: think he was solid overall in the defensive zone but I'd like to see him push the issue a little more offensively.

Fowler: I've always been a borderline apologist but there's no two ways about it. He sucked tonight. Basically blueline Killorn but at least he made some decent defensive plays.

Fabbri: he was fine at carrying the puck around with speed but he wasn't executing on his passes either. Felt like Mac held the line back, but Fabbri didn't really help either.

Dumoulin: no complaints no notes.

Reimer: he was shaky at times but overall that was a solid performance for a back up.

Lundestrom: fourth line in general was the best line again (which is concerning) but it really felt like Lundestrom was stirring the drink. I wish more of our forwards played like him and that's a really concerning thing to wish.

Terry: great play on the goal but his puck management was not great. Symptomatic of the whole team but that was too many passes to absolutely nobody.

In general the team executed okay in the first but it was like the wheels came off in the second. I think a lot of these issues you can chop up to rust after a week off and then following it with a B2B game. I'm hoping next week we'll see some improvements across the board. If we don't, I'm right back to questioning the coaching.
 

dracom

Registered User
Dec 22, 2015
13,532
9,635
Vancouver, WA
Just seems like Cronin and pv are pushing defense first… which is fine but it seems like they are also killing the players offensive/creativity

We seen it with zegras, wouldn’t be shocked if the team pushes zellweger/Mintyukov to make the safe play until they earn the trust to make the creative play.
And unfortunately the issue we’re seeing now is not scoring goals. Seems like we can’t have it be both ways.
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
98,751
34,582
Las Vegas
Addressing problem areas for sure, I just don't think you will have much luck teaching professional players fundamentals.
It's not necessarily about teaching them. It's honing them to a level that at least meets but ideally exceeds the opposition. Fundamentals, as nice as it is to pretend otherwise, don't exactly exist in a bubble. The variable of executing fundamentals against defensive pressure is different in practice compared to in an actual game. The quality of practice, drills, and scrimmages matters.

Taking Vegas as an example, their inaugural season wasn't some fluke. That team was well trained and conditioned by a coach with a goal to exceed expectations with players who bought in. Gallant had that one year of success and the same thing that always happens with him happened. He loosened his grip on the whip and put his trust in his players to "play their game" and manage their own fitness. The Knights started to play awful, were dropping games left and right, and Vegas fired him. Their roster was almost identical (arguably better) but their ability to execute fundamentals declined because their coach wasn't taking them to task in practice because he wanted to be the players' buddy.
 

Mr Rogers

Registered User
Jul 11, 2010
20,386
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Calgary
I wonder if it's just way too much to ask of Gauthier and Carlsson at this stage. The team just kind of penciled them in as the top line despite CUtter's total lack of professional experience and Leo coming off a nice but in no way dominant rookie season.

I'm starting to wonder if the guys being fed big minutes (our first line essentially) are the more experienced guys like Zegs, Terry, McTavish and some of the vets. I think some others have echoed this in the early going as well.

Stepping back, I mean it does seem like a tall order especially when some teams would probably have opted to send Cutter to the AHL at this stage. It was just kind of assumed that he'd play in the top 6 all summer but that wasn't really based on anything other than a stellar collegiate sophomore season and his draft pedigree.

WIth Leo, he's been behind the play and seems to be having trouble doing the simplest of things like holding on the puck. to me, that's mostly on him. with a player of his calibre and with the hands he's shown, i don't want ice conditions to be a reason why that's been happening. I'll be honest, it seems like at least every other shift he's been having some issues handling the puck.

So i'm actually not worried about Cutter, he just may not be ready. WIth Leo, it's been disappointing. Sure, 2 games but i was expecting him to be ready from the get go and aside from a couple nice passes, he's been invisible.
 

CrazyDuck4u

Registered User
Oct 14, 2006
6,775
3,809
I wonder if it's just way too much to ask of Gauthier and Carlsson at this stage. The team just kind of penciled them in as the top line despite CUtter's total lack of professional experience and Leo coming off a nice but in no way dominant rookie season.

I'm starting to wonder if the guys being fed big minutes (our first line essentially) are the more experienced guys like Zegs, Terry, McTavish and some of the vets. I think some others have echoed this in the early going as well.

Stepping back, I mean it does seem like a tall order especially when some teams would probably have opted to send Cutter to the AHL at this stage. It was just kind of assumed that he'd play in the top 6 all summer but that wasn't really based on anything other than a stellar collegiate sophomore season and his draft pedigree.

WIth Leo, he's been behind the play and seems to be having trouble doing the simplest of things like holding on the puck. to me, that's mostly on him. with a player of his calibre and with the hands he's shown, i don't want ice conditions to be a reason why that's been happening. I'll be honest, it seems like at least every other shift he's been having some issues handling the puck.

So i'm actually not worried about Cutter, he just may not be ready. WIth Leo, it's been disappointing. Sure, 2 games but i was expecting him to be ready from the get go and aside from a couple nice passes, he's been invisible.
I think we all need to give this 10 to 15 games in. Before it's all hell panic mode
 

Mr Rogers

Registered User
Jul 11, 2010
20,386
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Calgary
I think we all need to give this 10 to 15 games in. Before it's all hell panic mode
Oh the intent of that post wasn't necessarily to sound any alarms. I'm just trying to take a step back at the possibility those guys aren't ready for that type of role.

And I think it's important to look at everything after every game. it's been a small sample size but you can still glean trends that are concerning to watch. Everyone is going to have varying levels of concern and i'd say there's no right or wrong level of concern to have at this point.

nothing in these two games outside of Dostal has really been inspiring so if people already have some doubt/are a bit skeptical about this team taking meaningful steps this year, totally valid IMO. We've seen similar performances over longer stretches of time.
 

CrazyDuck4u

Registered User
Oct 14, 2006
6,775
3,809
Oh the intent of that post wasn't necessarily to sound any alarms. I'm just trying to take a step back at the possibility those guys aren't ready for that type of role.

And I think it's important to look at everything after every game. it's been a small sample size but you can still glean trends that are concerning to watch. Everyone is going to have varying levels of concern and i'd say there's no right or wrong level of concern to have at this point.

nothing in these two games outside of Dostal has really been inspiring so if people already have some doubt/are a bit skeptical about this team taking meaningful steps this year, totally valid IMO. We've seen similar performances over longer stretches of time.
Very well put.
 
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