1rw

[artilector]

I asked how quickly, your answer was obvious....I want to see how fast he's turned on if he struggles AT ALL upon arrival.

Then it's time for me to reveal another momentous truth to you -- if he does well in playoffs, any regular season struggles will be forgotten.

 

[trick9]

Yeah you see that is problem I have right there. I don't see it as the best of both worlds with Oshie where he has a career high on the 2nd line. I'm not trying to be rude, but I just don't see it. If Oshie does gel with the 2nd line by mid season the most I see him getting is his 50-55. You want Oshie to get his 60-70, you put him with Nick and OV.

I can definitely see Oshie getting ~60-70 points with limited time (let's say, ~20 games with OV+Nick) and rest on the 2nd line, while getting PP1 minutes.

Maybe i'm being too optimistic.

 

[txpd]

there were 19 players in the nhl with 70 points last season. lets keep expectations reasonable.

 

[trick9]

there were 19 players in the nhl with 70 points last season. lets keep expectations reasonable.

That's why i said ~60-70 points.

53 players scored atleast 60 points this season.

 

[artilector]

there were 19 players in the nhl with 70 points last season. lets keep expectations reasonable.

You can start by not expecting everybody's expectations to be the same.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Expecting 70 pts from TJ is just 10 more than his career high.
We can expect him to have a career year with Ovi + Nick.

 

[txpd]

You can start by not expecting everybody's expectations to be the same.

just pointing out that 70pts leads a lot of teams in scoring. its nowdays a big number

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

WRT productivity, I'm curious whether Trotz is going to change anything on the attack. This is a really good top 6, supported by a really strong D and G.

 

[PB12]

just pointing out that 70pts leads a lot of teams in scoring. its nowdays a big number

Especially when your 2 lineages are only expected to score 45-55 points.

 

[Langway]

WRT productivity, I'm curious whether Trotz is going to change anything on the attack. This is a really good top 6, supported by a really strong D and G.

They've got to emphasize playing faster through neutral and in carrying the puck into the offensive zone more often. I would hope that this is the epiphany reached after watching last year's CFs and SCF. For all of the fanfare and respect that Ward and Brouwer get around the league they weren't players that helped in either dimension beyond defensive play and dump/chase/cycle mindset. That's fine for a third line but the top six needs to be able to create chances and space more easily.

If the top six comes out next year playing conservative, slow and too simple/grinderish then it's about all I need to know about the coaching staff's mentality. Structure is good but it's never enough. They've got to make plays and play with pace rather than perhaps just rely on superior individual talent making a difference.

Part of Oshie potentially having a breakout season is him being a productive finisher on the PP. He never has been in his career and their typical configuration would seem to make that just about as easy as possible.

 

[sycamore]

Why is there so much concern about the 1st line? If anything, its the second line that has the question marks: is Williams too old? Is Bura too young? Can MJ adequately fill in for Bura if the latter should falter?

 

[txpd]

I would be pretty surprised to find the Caps changing significantly from its heavy forecheck style. That means as much dump and chase as they did last season.

 

[Langway]

I would be pretty surprised to find the Caps changing significantly from its heavy forecheck style. That means as much dump and chase as they did last season.

That's fine for the bottom six. It doesn't really work for the top six given the players. If they force the entire lineup to play that way it's a huge mistake and will likely stop them from possibly becoming an elite possession team. I'm not entirely convinced that the blueline is good enough either way to become such a team but if they punt on being more formidable as a group in terms of effective execution then they'll likely be right back at playing coin flip hockey with maybe slightly better odds.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Then it's time for me to reveal another momentous truth to you -- if he does well in playoffs, any regular season struggles will be forgotten.

Wow such thoughtful insight. Thanks for sharing....

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Expecting 70 pts from TJ is just 10 more than his career high.
We can expect him to have a career year with Ovi + Nick.

Setting yourself up for a TON of disappointment aren't you?

Would be awesome, but i wouldn't bet on it. If this guy doesn't perform, this board will be a mess.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

That's fine for the bottom six. It doesn't really work for the top six given the players. If they force the entire lineup to play that way it's a huge mistake and will likely stop them from possibly becoming an elite possession team. I'm not entirely convinced that the blueline is good enough either way to become such a team but if they punt on being more formidable as a group in terms of effective execution then they'll likely be right back at playing coin flip hockey with maybe slightly better odds.

I think they'd be absolute fools not to try it with the top 6. Carlson and Niskanen are plenty mobile and have great/passable first passes; Alzner/Orpik are decent safety valves and at a minimum can get a shot on net from the point.

As far is the bottom 6 is concerned -grind away and just waste time because they sure as heck aren't capable of anything else.

 

[PB12]

Setting yourself up for a TON of disappointment aren't you?

Would be awesome, but i wouldn't bet on it. If this guy doesn't perform, this board will be a mess.

Like a few has said though he has to be with Nick and OV most of the time. I understand people wanting to change it up, but you can't have both. I just don't see TJ getting 60-70 points with Kuzy-Mojo/Bura.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Like a few has said though he has to be with Nick and OV most of the time. I understand people wanting to change it up, but you can't have both. I just don't see TJ getting 60-70 points with Kuzy-Mojo/Bura.

And we all know lines get changed on a whim in the NHL. I like others expect a rotation of sorts. I'll be happy if he gets 25g/60pts. Trying to temper my enthusiasm.

 

[txpd]

That's fine for the bottom six. It doesn't really work for the top six given the players. If they force the entire lineup to play that way it's a huge mistake and will likely stop them from possibly becoming an elite possession team. I'm not entirely convinced that the blueline is good enough either way to become such a team but if they punt on being more formidable as a group in terms of effective execution then they'll likely be right back at playing coin flip hockey with maybe slightly better odds.

Force? I think all of the lines are clear to carry it in when presented an opportunity to carry in and create. But for the first line to dump it in and let Ov hammer a top defenseman on a regular basis pays dividends. in spades in the playoffs.

 

[Langway]

Force? I think all of the lines are clear to carry it in when presented an opportunity to carry in and create. But for the first line to dump it in and let Ov hammer a top defenseman on a regular basis pays dividends. in spades in the playoffs.

It pays dividends if you automatically assume that every series is bound to go seven games and that playoff hockey is primarily a matter of endurance. If they want to be able to get on a roll playing higher level playoff hockey that can result in shorter successful series they need to change some of those tendencies away from max effort/physicality and towards skilled composed execution.

By force I mean tactical dumps as well as poor neutral zone passing/outletting that lead to dumping being 'the right play' to begin with. It's what happens when predominantly concerned with defense rather than possession and attacking. Changing that is one of the keys. Dumping in itself isn't bad but it shouldn't be the preferred option and can't be a predominant entry tactic for a talented team that doesn't need to play that way. Is there anyone else in the top six that's going to wear down an NHL defenseman? Has that mentality paid off for them in any real way previously?

Chicago and Tampa Bay don't play that way. They attack and defend with pace and if the Caps are going to be legit they'll need to concentrate less on slowing teams down and more on speeding themselves up both on the attack and defending. Carrying in way more often is part of that.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Ovechkin has scored 7 ESG in his past 35 postseason games. The "strategy" of having him pound defenders for 2 seconds of zone time as they clear and then win the series does not pay dividends.

 

[artilector]

Force? I think all of the lines are clear to carry it in when presented an opportunity to carry in and create. But for the first line to dump it in and let Ov hammer a top defenseman on a regular basis pays dividends. in spades in the playoffs.

Haha, yeah, worked like magic all the way to the 2nd round of playoffs a few times..

Anyway, my concern with Trotz's systems would be the overall transition game. Maybe players are allowed to carry pucks in, but they rarely have the speed/position to do it, certainly not with any consistency.

It's not that the Caps are terrible at it, just elite teams tend to look better in this component, and it's pretty critical to taking control of the game.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Ovechkin has scored 7 ESG in his past 35 postseason games. The "strategy" of having him pound defenders for 2 seconds of zone time as they clear and then win the series does not pay dividends.

I don't see the correlation. Pounding the Islanders D, you could say won that series. At a minimum dramatically altered the outcome.

 

[artilector]

Ovechkin has scored 7 ESG in his past 35 postseason games. The "strategy" of having him pound defenders for 2 seconds of zone time as they clear and then win the series does not pay dividends.

Clearly, the problem is lack of secondary hitting from the other skilled guys.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They've added considerable skill. It'll be maddening to see them dump and chase with any regularity. In the playoffs, it's very likely though IMO. Get the puck in deep and wear them down. It's an ideal ingrained in NHL minds since the beginning it seems.