1994-95 Hart Trophy Revisit

[Sentinel]

Mario's Pearson award in 1986 too. I just can't grasp how a guy wins this award when he had 22 points less than the actual leader had assists that season. Were the players just sick of Gretzky at that time and had their own voter fatigue?

Carlyle in 1981 I agree, and Liut too. I was more of a fan of MacKinnon in 2018 over Hall. But I have to ask, Thornton in 2006? Why him? He ticked off a lot of boxes. Led the NHL in points, led the NHL in assists and only 4 players in NHL history had more than him in a season that year. Was the reason Cheechoo won the Rocket. He is a solid pick for the Hart. Jagr is close granted, but I think there is a better case for Thornton.



That's a tough list to crack though. Who do you take off? Maybe take off Chelios and put Fetisov in at #10. I wouldn't take Coffey off of the top 10. With Fetisov we have the 1980s to judge him on and it is just taking an educated guess how he competes with Bourque and Coffey for the Norrises. He would do just fine in an 80 game season I think. But what bothers me a bit is that we do have Fetisov from 1989-'98 in the NHL. Now I know there was a shift in cultures from the Soviet Union to North America, the language is different and he's 31 and had played a lot of exhausting hockey under Tikhonov by then. So we aren't seeing him at his best. But even so, he isn't even close to either one of Bourque or Coffey from 1989-'98. I think he's pretty close to them in the 1980s, just by guessing and seeing how he played and seeing his stats in Canada Cups and World Championships/Olympics and such. We also saw how he played on the ice, and he was certainly Doug Harvey-ish if I would describe it any way. Bourque-like too.

But I don't think you can rank him higher since he is miles behind them in the 1990s. Every season from Coffey from 1989-'96 was an elite year. Perhaps 1992 is his "worst" year. But he's still among the elite defenseman until 1996. Fetisov wasn't an elite defender in the 1990s. Bourque was still winning Norrises up until 1994 and still had good years after that, pretty much right up until 2001. I can't put Fetisov ahead of Coffey when you saw them head to head in the 1990s and even on the same team and saw that Coffey was better. We can factor in that Fetisov was tired and such but it wasn't as if Coffey and Bourque didn't play a lot of hockey either. 80 game seasons, Canada Cups, long playoff runs, etc.

I would definitely rank Fetisov over Potvin, Chelios, and Robinson. He also won two Soviet MVP awards (over Makarov and Krutov). His peak was higher than Potvin's, Coffey's, and Robinson's and on par with Bourque's. We saw him against Potvin in the 80s and outplayed him. He was the undisputed best defenseman of the early 80s and routinely compared with Orr.

As for the second half of his career, yes, for the reasons you mentioned, he was just too exhausted from Tihonov's sweatshop. He was still good enough to be a part of the Russian Five that terrorized the League and then came back after The Accident to win one last cup for his fallen friend. The stuff of legends.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Fetisov over Coffey is very easy for me. I have Potvin, Fetisov, and Kelly all bunched in the 6-7-8 spots. Then Robinson Chelios bunched at 9-10.

I also have Clancy and Cleghorn ahead of Coffey.

 

[MadLuke]

I think there is some depends on the team type of affair once you go below Orr in Ds ranking that can make it hard.

On some teams, Coffey could be ahead a lot of Ds, say you build a team Canada you could want his special skill set and giant game breaking ability over more stable player. Coffey for what the Oilers were trying to do could have been ahead of a lot of players that Bowman preferred for what he wanted to do.

A bit like if I am 2 season ago Sharks, give me Karlsson over pretty much anyone, at least we will have some fun and who care what ultimately happen, if I am a cup contender it changes things (the list of Ds the Islanders would consider over Potvin could be a single one seriously and no one judge them if they keep him).

If you want to anchor an franchise (and value making the playoff every year), Bourque-Lidstrom can get ahead of a lot of people because of what they mean in that regard, some would feel they challenge Orr even.

 

[Michael Farkas]

That kind of answers the questions too, in some respects. Your prompts are: "wanna have fun?" Or "do you wanna win?" Haha

I know that's an oversimplification of it all, but there's probably some truth in there too. The key is: can the gamebreaker fit inside a winning combination? Orr could. Could, say, Housley? Or is Housley a bad team scorer only? Hypothetically, of course...

 

[Crosby2010]

I would definitely rank Fetisov over Potvin, Chelios, and Robinson. He also won two Soviet MVP awards (over Makarov and Krutov). His peak was higher than Potvin's, Coffey's, and Robinson's and on par with Bourque's. We saw him against Potvin in the 80s and outplayed him. He was the undisputed best defenseman of the early 80s and routinely compared with Orr.

As for the second half of his career, yes, for the reasons you mentioned, he was just too exhausted from Tihonov's sweatshop. He was still good enough to be a part of the Russian Five that terrorized the League and then came back after The Accident to win one last cup for his fallen friend. The stuff of legends.

That's just too big of a gap for me to put him ahead of those guys though. He was roughly their same age and while in the same league was not an elite defenseman while they still were in the 1990s. I don't disagree he is similar to them - at least from what we could see - in the 1980s. But even that it is like the Tretiak factor and we can just estimate because we don't have the evidence right in front of it. He lacked longevity compared to the rest of the guys on this list, and fair or not I can't put him higher just because Tikhonov was a tyrant. Bourque and Coffey played tons of seasons too. So we'll disagree, although others seem to like Fetisov ahead of Coffey. I don't think I can put him more than #10 if I would take Chelios out of there.

 

[Sentinel]

That's just too big of a gap for me to put him ahead of those guys though. He was roughly their same age and while in the same league was not an elite defenseman while they still were in the 1990s. I don't disagree he is similar to them - at least from what we could see - in the 1980s. But even that it is like the Tretiak factor and we can just estimate because we don't have the evidence right in front of it. He lacked longevity compared to the rest of the guys on this list, and fair or not I can't put him higher just because Tikhonov was a tyrant. Bourque and Coffey played tons of seasons too. So we'll disagree, although others seem to like Fetisov ahead of Coffey. I don't think I can put him more than #10 if I would take Chelios out of there.

You do you.
Fetisov has the highest peak of any defenseman since Orr, who is also not known for his longevity. The only one who comes close is Bourque.