Prospect Info: 17OA: Axel Sandin Pellikka

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Kind of agree which is part of why I like ASP better (better skater, more defensive ability). Just saying, Sandin is still young and could easily turn into at least a really good offensive D.

I hope you're right. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic here. But I still think ASP sucks at defending. I hope to be proven wrong when I watch Skelleftea next season.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Which many of us think he is just good at not great, there’s a high chance he never scores at the NHL level higher than Hronek does. So it begs the question why are you trading Hronek for a mystery box offensive defenseman that might not ever be as good as him? He’s also smaller too. I actually was a Hronek hater, but it’s a misuse of assets.

Because Hronek was over valued and going to be too expensive to keep long term. That's my guess.

 

[suovas]

Which many of us think he is just good at not great, there’s a high chance he never scores at the NHL level higher than Hronek does. So it begs the question why are you trading Hronek for a mystery box offensive defenseman that might not ever be as good as him? He’s also smaller too. I actually was a Hronek hater, but it’s a misuse of assets.

Size isnt all about length.

Hronek at the combine: 6'0" , 163lbs
ASP at the combine: 5'11" , 180 lbs

ASP is btw far stronger than Hronek and has far better fitness results than Hronek, at the same age.

 

[SantosHalper]

And man, does he speak fluent English. Where does that come from?

Speaks some finnish too, i tried to find the video from the U20 Worlds where somebody scored against Sweden and ASP was on ice. Camera zoomed on him and he shouted good old fashioned VITTU!

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I think this is a slam dunk pick..

An intelligent, creative, smooth skating RHD with first pairing potential? Yes pls

This is our best pick of the draft

 

[Perfect Human]

I hope you're right. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic here. But I still think ASP sucks at defending. I hope to be proven wrong when I watch Skelleftea next season.

Can you elaborate on his bad defending?

Here is a quote from EP rinkside's Jimmy Hamrin.
"I suppose this is the point where we’re supposed to tell you that becoming a more defensively sound player is going to be critical for Sandin Pellikka’s development, but that’s not really the case here, even if he is a smallish offensive defenceman. The Swedish blueliner is an engaged defender, particularly stout between the blue lines and along the boards.

His frame is such that Sandin Pellikka is sometimes overmatched physically, and he’s not the best off-puck defender either (often a bit reactive or lost during cycle sequences), but it’s not like he’s critically deficient."

Not saying this is the end-all-be-all, and I only watched him at the WJC, but I have not read much analysis of him sayin he "sucks" at defending.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Can you elaborate on his bad defending?

Here is a quote from EP rinkside's Jimmy Hamrin.
"I suppose this is the point where we’re supposed to tell you that becoming a more defensively sound player is going to be critical for Sandin Pellikka’s development, but that’s not really the case here, even if he is a smallish offensive defenceman. The Swedish blueliner is an engaged defender, particularly stout between the blue lines and along the boards.

His frame is such that Sandin Pellikka is sometimes overmatched physically, and he’s not the best off-puck defender either (often a bit reactive or lost during cycle sequences), but it’s not like he’s critically deficient."

Not saying this is the end-all-be-all, and I only watched him at the WJC, but I have not read much analysis of him sayin he "sucks" at defending.

Here's the thing, and I don't like to say that EP Rinkside is wrong usually. But in this instance they're wrong.

His gapping from neutral zone to defensive zone is very poor and it allows the opponents to build up a lot of steam when exiting their defensive zone because he simply gives them too much space. And as a result of giving his opponents a lot of space, he also allows for cross-neutral zone passes a lot where we've seen our other A level prospects like Edvinsson, Seider, Wallinder and Johansson step up and interrupt a pass from left wing to right and turn it into a play going the other way. These are two things I believe Kronwall will work with him on a lot and I hope it gets burned into the kid's brain on how to read passing lanes and how to stick closer to your guy. It would make him a much better transition defender.

His compete in his own zone is Erik Karlsson level of bad. There was a Skelleftea game where I watched him LET the opposition forward skate into the corner first on a dump in attempt that he could have gotten to first, made the breakout pass and either taken a hit or worked to avoid it. There was enough space between him and the forward that if ASP had gotten to the puck first he probably could have skated it out. Instead he let the other team get in first and the opposition created a great scoring chance by passing the puck into the slot. ASP did that on several occasions in my viewings. If there would have been a contest for the puck, he let the other team get it. That's Zadina level soft. Instant do-not-draft when I see that in a player.

ASP is also poor at slot coverage. A lot of times he'd be in the geographic region of the crease...somewhere within an outstretched stick's length from the net, but stationary or floating while the opposition buzzed around. When I watched it's like he refused to play man to man defense by his net and the other team could easily get a pass to the front of the net and create a chance. This is so fundamental to defense that when I see this kind of play even at a junior level it makes me question both a player's commitment and their hockey sense. "There's an open guy in front of my net. I need to take away his ability to touch the puck" should be the first thing on his mind. You see it with Willander, Reinbacher, what little I've seen of Simashev. Good defenders don't have to be on the puck to eliminate a chance.

I'll say this about ASP; I like his transition ability when he skates it out, and I like the way he can make himself a shooting threat by sneaking into the slot or to the tops of the circles. He has a really good wrist shot for a defenseman. Legitimate sniping ability. This guy needs to be much more involved when the puck isn't on his stick though. And he needs to learn how to handle the physical play of North America. He can barely handle the physical play in Sweden.

So, in summation, he reminds me of Adam Boqvist 2.0. That's why I hate it.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Here's the thing, and I don't like to say that EP Rinkside is wrong usually. But in this instance they're wrong.

His gapping from neutral zone to defensive zone is very poor and it allows the opponents to build up a lot of steam when exiting their defensive zone because he simply gives them too much space. And as a result of giving his opponents a lot of space, he also allows for cross-neutral zone passes a lot where we've seen our other A level prospects like Edvinsson, Seider, Wallinder and Johansson step up and interrupt a pass from left wing to right and turn it into a play going the other way. These are two things I believe Kronwall will work with him on a lot and I hope it gets burned into the kid's brain on how to read passing lanes and how to stick closer to your guy. It would make him a much better transition defender.

His compete in his own zone is Erik Karlsson level of bad. There was a Skelleftea game where I watched him LET the opposition forward skate into the corner first on a dump in attempt that he could have gotten to first, made the breakout pass and either taken a hit or worked to avoid it. There was enough space between him and the forward that if ASP had gotten to the puck first he probably could have skated it out. Instead he let the other team get in first and the opposition created a great scoring chance by passing the puck into the slot. ASP did that on several occasions in my viewings. If there would have been a contest for the puck, he let the other team get it. That's Zadina level soft. Instant do-not-draft when I see that in a player.

ASP is also poor at slot coverage. A lot of times he'd be in the geographic region of the crease...somewhere within an outstretched stick's length from the net, but stationary or floating while the opposition buzzed around. When I watched it's like he refused to play man to man defense by his net and the other team could easily get a pass to the front of the net and create a chance. This is so fundamental to defense that when I see this kind of play even at a junior level it makes me question both a player's commitment and their hockey sense. "There's an open guy in front of my net. I need to take away his ability to touch the puck" should be the first thing on his mind. You see it with Willander, Reinbacher, what little I've seen of Simashev. Good defenders don't have to be on the puck to eliminate a chance.

I'll say this about ASP; I like his transition ability when he skates it out, and I like the way he can make himself a shooting threat by sneaking into the slot or to the tops of the circles. He has a really good wrist shot for a defenseman. Legitimate sniping ability. This guy needs to be much more involved when the puck isn't on his stick though. And he needs to learn how to handle the physical play of North America. He can barely handle the physical play in Sweden.

So, in summation, he reminds me of Adam Boqvist 2.0. That's why I hate it.

I think the Wings have looked at the development of our D prospects in Sweden under Niklas Kronwall and couldn't pass up on this kid.

Kronwall was a good defenseman but when it comes to teaching prospects the guy is a goddamned savant. Seider went to Sweden as an offensively limited guy with first pair upside and came out as the second coming of Chris Pronger.

If the pattern holds true this guy is going to come out looking like Erik Karlsson.

 

[raymond23]

Like some have mentioned - this pick scares me a bit just based on similar profiled players that have been drafted in the past few years. But hoping for the best, there's lots of good reviews out there for him

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think the Wings have looked at the development of our D prospects in Sweden under Niklas Kronwall and couldn't pass up on this kid.

Kronwall was a good defenseman but when it comes to teaching prospects the guy is a goddamned savant. Seider went to Sweden as an offensively limited guy with first pair upside and came out as the second coming of Chris Pronger.

If the pattern holds true this guy is going to come out looking like Erik Karlsson.

Doubtful. I'm a huge cheerleader for Kronwall teaching our kids and think he's been the savior of our rebuild so far. We got the Seider we have now in large part because of his influence while Seider was with Rogle.

That said, I don't think you can teach compete. It's why guys like Mantha and AA are not thought of that highly in the league. It's why those talented coasters in the league always get bitched about. It's why Zadina is about as useless as a pecker on the pope if he's not scoring goals. Compete is something you either have or you don't. I don't think ASP has it. This feels like the anti-Yzerman pick.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Pretty shocked we took ASP when you look at the other defenseman we took in this draft.

Well, for every < 6'0'' defenseman we take, we need to counter it with 35 >6'0'' defensemen. Buckle up because the next 4 years of drafting is gonna suck.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

He is an OFFENSIVE DEFENSEMAN. The whole idea is he contributes to OFFENSE.

And then when you do draft defensive defensemen, all people do is complain. You absolutely cannot win around here.

 

[raymond23]

ASP was #7 in the VO2 Max and #1 in the Bench Press thing at the combine

So that’s cool

 

[RedHawkDown]

This one I’m trying to be optimistic about. He was ranked around where he was taken and is the single high upside pick we took. He could bust, but if he hits we could have a Makar style player (obviously not as good). Or maybe as good? Who knows.

Potential is certainly there. And with the rest of the draft going the way it did, I’m happy with that.

Also don’t think his size is an issue given his strength and also given that the other 3 D in our top 4 (Wally, Edvinsson, Seider) are all 6’3”+

 

[stillwater]

ASP was #7 in the VO2 Max and #1 in the Bench Press thing at the combine

So that’s cool

He doesn't have compete, haven't you heard.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This one I’m trying to be optimistic about. He was ranked around where he was taken and is the single high upside pick we took. He could bust, but if he hits we could have a Makar style player (obviously not as good). Or maybe as good? Who knows.

Potential is certainly there. And with the rest of the draft going the way it did, I’m happy with that.

Also don’t think his size is an issue given his strength and also given that the other 3 D in our top 4 (Wally, Edvinsson, Seider) are all 6’3”+

Like I said earlier, I don't love the lack of size, but we do have plenty of size to shelter him with (or at least should). I think you can have one guy his size on your blueline but you can't have many more than that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Here's the thing, and I don't like to say that EP Rinkside is wrong usually. But in this instance they're wrong.

His gapping from neutral zone to defensive zone is very poor and it allows the opponents to build up a lot of steam when exiting their defensive zone because he simply gives them too much space. And as a result of giving his opponents a lot of space, he also allows for cross-neutral zone passes a lot where we've seen our other A level prospects like Edvinsson, Seider, Wallinder and Johansson step up and interrupt a pass from left wing to right and turn it into a play going the other way. These are two things I believe Kronwall will work with him on a lot and I hope it gets burned into the kid's brain on how to read passing lanes and how to stick closer to your guy. It would make him a much better transition defender.

His compete in his own zone is Erik Karlsson level of bad. There was a Skelleftea game where I watched him LET the opposition forward skate into the corner first on a dump in attempt that he could have gotten to first, made the breakout pass and either taken a hit or worked to avoid it. There was enough space between him and the forward that if ASP had gotten to the puck first he probably could have skated it out. Instead he let the other team get in first and the opposition created a great scoring chance by passing the puck into the slot. ASP did that on several occasions in my viewings. If there would have been a contest for the puck, he let the other team get it. That's Zadina level soft. Instant do-not-draft when I see that in a player.

ASP is also poor at slot coverage. A lot of times he'd be in the geographic region of the crease...somewhere within an outstretched stick's length from the net, but stationary or floating while the opposition buzzed around. When I watched it's like he refused to play man to man defense by his net and the other team could easily get a pass to the front of the net and create a chance. This is so fundamental to defense that when I see this kind of play even at a junior level it makes me question both a player's commitment and their hockey sense. "There's an open guy in front of my net. I need to take away his ability to touch the puck" should be the first thing on his mind. You see it with Willander, Reinbacher, what little I've seen of Simashev. Good defenders don't have to be on the puck to eliminate a chance.

I'll say this about ASP; I like his transition ability when he skates it out, and I like the way he can make himself a shooting threat by sneaking into the slot or to the tops of the circles. He has a really good wrist shot for a defenseman. Legitimate sniping ability. This guy needs to be much more involved when the puck isn't on his stick though. And he needs to learn how to handle the physical play of North America. He can barely handle the physical play in Sweden.

So, in summation, he reminds me of Adam Boqvist 2.0. That's why I hate it.

One of the issues with Boqvist is that Chicago butchered his development. ASP is in much better hands.

Your post sounds a bit nitpicky too. Especially framing it as if all those other prospects are/were perfect defensively.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He doesn't have compete, haven't you heard.

That’s endurance. Big difference.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

One of the issues with Boqvist is that Chicago butchered his development. ASP is in much better hands.

Your post sounds a bit nitpicky too. Especially framing it as if all those other prospects are/were perfect defensively.

Reinbacher and Willander both have a very pro defensive game with plus skating and very few warts. Reinbacher looks like a future top pair stud as a result. Willander is more of a complementary guy but next to Hughes? That’ll unlock Quinn even more.

Both of those guys are just as effective puck movers as well even if the offense is less.

Reinbacher vs ASP could be the difference between Pietrangelo and Barrie. That is a canyon sized gap to cross.

 

[Fyodorov]

Here's the thing, and I don't like to say that EP Rinkside is wrong usually. But in this instance they're wrong.

His gapping from neutral zone to defensive zone is very poor and it allows the opponents to build up a lot of steam when exiting their defensive zone because he simply gives them too much space. And as a result of giving his opponents a lot of space, he also allows for cross-neutral zone passes a lot where we've seen our other A level prospects like Edvinsson, Seider, Wallinder and Johansson step up and interrupt a pass from left wing to right and turn it into a play going the other way. These are two things I believe Kronwall will work with him on a lot and I hope it gets burned into the kid's brain on how to read passing lanes and how to stick closer to your guy. It would make him a much better transition defender.

His compete in his own zone is Erik Karlsson level of bad. There was a Skelleftea game where I watched him LET the opposition forward skate into the corner first on a dump in attempt that he could have gotten to first, made the breakout pass and either taken a hit or worked to avoid it. There was enough space between him and the forward that if ASP had gotten to the puck first he probably could have skated it out. Instead he let the other team get in first and the opposition created a great scoring chance by passing the puck into the slot. ASP did that on several occasions in my viewings. If there would have been a contest for the puck, he let the other team get it. That's Zadina level soft. Instant do-not-draft when I see that in a player.

ASP is also poor at slot coverage. A lot of times he'd be in the geographic region of the crease...somewhere within an outstretched stick's length from the net, but stationary or floating while the opposition buzzed around. When I watched it's like he refused to play man to man defense by his net and the other team could easily get a pass to the front of the net and create a chance. This is so fundamental to defense that when I see this kind of play even at a junior level it makes me question both a player's commitment and their hockey sense. "There's an open guy in front of my net. I need to take away his ability to touch the puck" should be the first thing on his mind. You see it with Willander, Reinbacher, what little I've seen of Simashev. Good defenders don't have to be on the puck to eliminate a chance.

I'll say this about ASP; I like his transition ability when he skates it out, and I like the way he can make himself a shooting threat by sneaking into the slot or to the tops of the circles. He has a really good wrist shot for a defenseman. Legitimate sniping ability. This guy needs to be much more involved when the puck isn't on his stick though. And he needs to learn how to handle the physical play of North America. He can barely handle the physical play in Sweden.

So, in summation, he reminds me of Adam Boqvist 2.0. That's why I hate it.

I'm now even more excited about this player out of pure spite.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Reinbacher and Willander both have a very pro defensive game with plus skating and very few warts. Reinbacher looks like a future top pair stud as a result. Willander is more of a complementary guy but next to Hughes? That’ll unlock Quinn even more.

Both of those guys are just as effective puck movers as well even if the offense is less.

Reinbacher vs ASP could be the difference between Pietrangelo and Barrie. That is a canyon sized gap to cross.

Let's see. Willander played only 2 SHL games. Easy to look "very pro" when not playing pro. Reinbacher, yeah probably true, which is why he was a top 5 pick. Not sure I even get the comparison there. If we picked Moore at 17 would you complain he's not Fantilli?

 

[Frk It]

Like I said earlier, I don't love the lack of size, but we do have plenty of size to shelter him with (or at least should). I think you can have one guy his size on your blueline but you can't have many more than that.

It’s not the player for me as much as it’s the way the board was.

I don’t see the argument he was the BPA with Barlow, Moore, Sale, Perreault, etc out there. ASP is a guy I would be fine taking in the 20’s but what is his standout skill as an undersized defenseman that says he should go top 20? I don’t see it. I’ve seen more dynamic defenseman come out of Sweden his size struggle and not make it.

I think this draft was like that Hughes/Bouchard/Dobson draft as far as it is very obvious what the strength of it is, with this year being forwards as opposed to that draft it being defense. I think with several of these defenseman picks there were 3/4/5 forwards available that were better options.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Love this pick, he was my top ranked defenseman in the class. Love his ceiling more than anyone else from this class.

 

[Perfect Human]

Here's the thing, and I don't like to say that EP Rinkside is wrong usually. But in this instance they're wrong.

His gapping from neutral zone to defensive zone is very poor and it allows the opponents to build up a lot of steam when exiting their defensive zone because he simply gives them too much space. And as a result of giving his opponents a lot of space, he also allows for cross-neutral zone passes a lot where we've seen our other A level prospects like Edvinsson, Seider, Wallinder and Johansson step up and interrupt a pass from left wing to right and turn it into a play going the other way. These are two things I believe Kronwall will work with him on a lot and I hope it gets burned into the kid's brain on how to read passing lanes and how to stick closer to your guy. It would make him a much better transition defender.

His compete in his own zone is Erik Karlsson level of bad. There was a Skelleftea game where I watched him LET the opposition forward skate into the corner first on a dump in attempt that he could have gotten to first, made the breakout pass and either taken a hit or worked to avoid it. There was enough space between him and the forward that if ASP had gotten to the puck first he probably could have skated it out. Instead he let the other team get in first and the opposition created a great scoring chance by passing the puck into the slot. ASP did that on several occasions in my viewings. If there would have been a contest for the puck, he let the other team get it. That's Zadina level soft. Instant do-not-draft when I see that in a player.

ASP is also poor at slot coverage. A lot of times he'd be in the geographic region of the crease...somewhere within an outstretched stick's length from the net, but stationary or floating while the opposition buzzed around. When I watched it's like he refused to play man to man defense by his net and the other team could easily get a pass to the front of the net and create a chance. This is so fundamental to defense that when I see this kind of play even at a junior level it makes me question both a player's commitment and their hockey sense. "There's an open guy in front of my net. I need to take away his ability to touch the puck" should be the first thing on his mind. You see it with Willander, Reinbacher, what little I've seen of Simashev. Good defenders don't have to be on the puck to eliminate a chance.

I'll say this about ASP; I like his transition ability when he skates it out, and I like the way he can make himself a shooting threat by sneaking into the slot or to the tops of the circles. He has a really good wrist shot for a defenseman. Legitimate sniping ability. This guy needs to be much more involved when the puck isn't on his stick though. And he needs to learn how to handle the physical play of North America. He can barely handle the physical play in Sweden.

So, in summation, he reminds me of Adam Boqvist 2.0. That's why I hate it.

Thank you for the complete response.

 

[Henkka]

I hope you're right. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic here. But I still think ASP sucks at defending. I hope to be proven wrong when I watch Skelleftea next season.

After some work with Niklas Kronwall, you can't wait and see how will learn to be a better at defending.

Every kid sucks at defending on that age. You should not worry about that. That's the area what every single defenceman in the whole world will improve most during their careers.