GDT: #17 – Jets at Sabres – Tue Feb 19 – 7:00PM ET – TV: MSG-B – Radio: WGR-AM

Paxon

202? Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
29,032
5,267
Rochester, NY
No he isn't.

Grigs doesn't hit, doesn't win many puck battles, nor does he engage physically and obviously he wont fight. Why on earth would he be a good 4th liner?

I think posters want him to play so badly because they keep clinging to the fantasy/hope that one of these games its all suddenly going to click for him. Then he will go on a tear and wee will be amazed by what he does.

Because he's a better player. Scott's hits may be heavy but very few of them have direct impact on the play and possession of the puck. I'm not exactly wowed by his ability to win puck battles. Let's not act like Scott's a great 4th liner. Scott shouldn't play every game, it doesn't have to be Grigs replacing him but since he's the one being scratched here that's how I feel.
 

struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
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Upstate NY
Yes and now that its stabilized he can come out.
How did Leopold stabilize the defense? Lindy didn't say that he was waiting for the team as a whole to get better before dealing with under-performing vets, he said that Leopold, even as one of the team's worst two defenders was a stabilizing presence. Leo has been better recently than he was when Lindy made the comments I referred to. So why now? Either Lindy believed in what he said at the time and was totally ****ing wrong, or isn't addressing the media and thus the fans with a shred of honesty about what is going on in his locker room and with this team.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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Hamburg,NY
We play essentially 3 lines every game. Our 4th liners (Ellis, McCormick) get roughly 9 shifts and a little over 6mins a night. Scott gets just shy of 4 mins and 5.5 shifts a game.



There is no point in putting Grigs in that situation. Its about as foreign as you can get to the game he plays. Put aside your Ruff hate and think for a few seconds and you we realize this.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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How did Leopold stabilize the defense? Lindy didn't say that he was waiting for the team as a whole to get better before dealing with under-performing vets, he said that Leopold, even as one of the team's worst two defenders was a stabilizing presence. Leo has been better recently than he was when Lindy made the comments I referred to. So why now? Either Lindy believed in what he said at the time and was totally ****ing wrong, or isn't addressing the media and thus the fans with a shred of honesty about what is going on in his locker room and with this team.

He didn't. I WAS KIDDING
 

Paxon

202? Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
29,032
5,267
Rochester, NY
We play essentially 3 lines every game. Our 4th liners (Ellis, McCormick) get roughly 9 shifts and a little over 6mins a night. Scott gets just shy of 4 mins and 5.5 shifts a game.



There is no point in putting Grigs in that situation. Its about as foreign as you can get to the game he plays. Put aside your Ruff hate and think for a few seconds and you we realize this.

:dunno: I don't hate Ruff and I always -- at least consciously -- put aside my personal feelings. How much ice time the 4th line gets doesn't matter, if anything that goes to the point. There's nothing wrong with Grigorenko playing 6 minutes with scrubs and being there as an option for the 2nd PP unit or to move up to the 3rd line if things aren't going well in the game. A part of why the 4th line doesn't get much time is because it has Scott on it in the first place.
 

CrazyPsycho

Elite Drafter
Sep 25, 2003
17,670
5,251
No he isn't.

Grigs doesn't hit, doesn't win many puck battles, nor does he engage physically and obviously he wont fight. Why on earth would he be a good 4th liner?

I think posters want him to play so badly because they keep clinging to the fantasy/hope that one of these games its all suddenly going to click for him. Then he will go on a tear and wee will be amazed by what he does.

He's a better 2nd liner than Kaleta. Foligno-Ennis-Kaleta is one of the more poorly constructed lines I can think of. What is the point of having a talented center (*cough* Grigs) doing playing with two guys with stonehands? It's gonna be Ennisogenov to the extreme with this group.

And no, Grigs shouldn't be here right now, but you can't just ride his ass on the bench all year either. This is the perfect game to play him in.
 

struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
18,243
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Upstate NY
You honestly think I feel the defense is stabilized?
No, but I've argued with you about Lindy and his semantics enough times that I thought you took Ruff's comments to mean "I'm waiting for other players to turn it around before I bench a vet" instead of "simply by being in the lineup, Leo is making things better."
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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He's a better 2nd liner than Kaleta. Foligno-Ennis-Kaleta is one of the more poorly constructed lines I can think of. What is the point of having a talented center (*cough* Grigs) doing playing with two guys with stonehands? It's gonna be Ennisogenov to the extreme with this group.

And no, Grigs shouldn't be here right now, but you can't just ride his ass on the bench all year either. This is the perfect game to play him in.

Couple of things

1. Grigs isn't NHL ready so be definition he is not a better 2nd liner than Kaleta. Who I agree is not a 2nd liner.

2. Stafford has 1 goal on 47 shots (2.7 shooting %). So lets not pretend Ennis was playing with a sniper this year on his RW.

3. You agree Grigs shouldn't be here but insist he plays on the 2nd line? :help:

Btw Kaleta with Ennis is obviously a short term thing and Stafford will be back there soon enough. Probably late in tonight's game.
 

Zip15

Registered User
Jun 3, 2009
28,135
5,431
Bodymore
And John Scott is?

but is Scott? I havent really complained with how Grigs has been used, he's going to get scratched, I just think tonite is a poor choice. Jets arent a dirty club and dont really employ any goons, not too mention their issues on D & the wider open style they play. Wouldve been a nice night to get Grigorenko some ice time.

No he isn't.

Grigs doesn't hit, doesn't win many puck battles, nor does he engage physically and obviously he wont fight. Why on earth would he be a good 4th liner?

I think posters want him to play so badly because they keep clinging to the fantasy/hope that one of these games its all suddenly going to click for him. Then he will go on a tear and wee will be amazed by what he does.

We play essentially 3 lines every game. Our 4th liners (Ellis, McCormick) get roughly 9 shifts and a little over 6mins a night. Scott gets just shy of 4 mins and 5.5 shifts a game.



There is no point in putting Grigs in that situation. Its about as foreign as you can get to the game he plays. Put aside your Ruff hate and think for a few seconds and you we realize this.

JJ got there first. I don't want him playing if there's not a spot for him in the top-9. Maybe if Ruff was giving him some PP time, but he's not doing that, either.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
79,630
42,504
Hamburg,NY
No, but I've argued with you about Lindy and his semantics enough times that I thought you took Ruff's comments to mean "I'm waiting for other players to turn it around before I bench a vet" instead of "simply by being in the lineup, Leo is making things better."

Wow, you got all that from that simple statement. :laugh:
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
79,630
42,504
Hamburg,NY
JJ got there first. I don't want him playing if there's not a spot for him in the top-9. Maybe if Ruff was giving him some PP time, but he's not doing that, either.

Thats where I'm at. Frankly with the makeup of our center group, I'm somewhat baffled at their decision to keep him. We have 2 offensive centers and Hecht. Grigs will not dislodge Ennis or Hodgson. Whenever Ruff wants a defensive line Hecht will be centering that line with Ott and either Gerbe or Kaleta. Grigs really doesn't fit anywhere in the top 9 right now unless injuries hit.
 

CrazyPsycho

Elite Drafter
Sep 25, 2003
17,670
5,251
Couple of things

1. Grigs isn't NHL ready so be definition he is not a better 2nd liner than Kaleta. Who I agree is not a 2nd liner.

2. Stafford has 1 goal on 47 shots (2.7 shooting %). So lets not pretend Ennis was playing with a sniper this year on his RW.

3. You agree Grigs shouldn't be here but insist he plays on the 2nd line? :help:

Btw Kaleta with Ennis is obviously a short term thing and Stafford will be back there soon enough. Probably late in tonight's game.

I'm not insisting that he play on the 2nd line, I am saying he should be playing over John Scott tonight, and Stafford should obviously be with Ennis. And yeah, I can see Lindy pulling this stunt for a period and just going back to the old lines, his "message" accomplishing nothing.

I'm just mad that Lindy decides that tonight is the night he's going to try and be fancy with his punishments, a game that this team should win handily.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
79,630
42,504
Hamburg,NY
:dunno: I don't hate Ruff and I always -- at least consciously -- put aside my personal feelings. How much ice time the 4th line gets doesn't matter, if anything that goes to the point. There's nothing wrong with Grigorenko playing 6 minutes with scrubs and being there as an option for the 2nd PP unit or to move up to the 3rd line if things aren't going well in the game. A part of why the 4th line doesn't get much time is because it has Scott on it in the first place.



We'll have to agree to disagree.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
79,630
42,504
Hamburg,NY
I'm not insisting that he play on the 2nd line, I am saying he should be playing over John Scott tonight, and Stafford should obviously be with Ennis. And yeah, I can see Lindy pulling this stunt for a period and just going back to the old lines, his "message" accomplishing nothing.

I'm just mad that Lindy decides that tonight is the night he's going to try and be fancy with his punishments, a game that this team should win handily.

I think thats why its happening. He doesn't have the stones to do it against better teams.
 

Duddy

Everyday is
Dec 24, 2005
12,081
1,423
I'm asking how this shows a rift between Ruff/Regier. I'm not talking about Grigs

Regier probably thought that Ruff would constantly play him for the whole season, but Ruff is clearly not doing this. I doubt they'd be ok with keeping Grigs up had they known that Ruff wasn't going to use him the whole season

:dunno:
 

Paxon

202? Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
29,032
5,267
Rochester, NY
Regier probably thought that Ruff would constantly play him for the whole season, but Ruff is clearly not doing this. I doubt they'd be ok with keeping Grigs up had they known that Ruff wasn't going to use him the whole season

:dunno:

While your last sentence is probably true, you have to think Ruff was as in on the decision as Darcy, indicating he really thought he'd be using Grigs more.
 

JThorne

Stop accepting failure
Jul 21, 2006
4,823
815
Downtown Buffalo
While your last sentence is probably true, you have to think Ruff was as in on the decision as Darcy, indicating he really thought he'd be using Grigs more.

And IF that's the case, they both made a mistake. And instead of trying to get something out of it, they're sinking to the bottom of the league and letting this kid get practically no game experience. You just KNOW that even when(not if) the team is eliminated from the playoff picture, Grigorenko will get sat and/or few minutes.

This is NOT how a kid should be developed.
 

Myllz

RELEASE THE KRAKEN
Jan 16, 2006
19,621
1,424
Vegas
Thats where I'm at. Frankly with the makeup of our center group, I'm somewhat baffled at their decision to keep him. We have 2 offensive centers and Hecht. Grigs will not dislodge Ennis or Hodgson. Whenever Ruff wants a defensive line Hecht will be centering that line with Ott and either Gerbe or Kaleta. Grigs really doesn't fit anywhere in the top 9 right now unless injuries hit.

So get him some time on the wing. It's better than not playing him at all.
 

ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
15,399
1,449
Buffalo, NY
"Ruff is quickly ruining Grigorenko". Is this statement more knee jerk drama and unrealistic? Or very accurate and not based on opinion AT ALL?

I ask because I don't know...

What other 18-19 year olds who were supposed to be very good in the NHL
at that age, but because of the NHL coach they had were quickly "ruined" and never had a good or great career? It was solely the coaches fault.
 

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