Prospect Info: #166 Overall, LW Josh Filmon, Swift Current WHL

[Jason MacIsaac]

If Filmon were to play in the AHL next season and do as well as he has in his 1st 2 games, he would not look out of place.

However, He won't be here next season. At least not until his Jr season ends. Add to that the Comets would still have to be playing. With another year of developmnet that goes as well as this one did and some more wt, muscle, and skill improvement, he just may turn out to be the real deal. We all have to hope he doesn't regress or simply repeat this season. He has to continue on an upward swing

I like what I'm seeing at this time. Pinho and Thompson should take note of how he finds open space, gets his shot off quickly, and hits the net, and then gets back hard on the backcheck and can clear the puck out of his zone while under pressure.

This is a skill, natural goal scorers just find soft coverage and position themselves to get a shot off quick. Tatar is very good at this currently on the Devils. Even if his skating doesn't improve a ton guys like James Neal evolve with these types of skills. He needs 10 pounds this offseason then maybe 10 the following before turning pro.

 

[Bad Goalie]

This is a skill, natural goal scorers just find soft coverage and position themselves to get a shot off quick. Tatar is very good at this currently on the Devils. Even if his skating doesn't improve a ton guys like James Neal evolve with these types of skills. He needs 10 pounds this offseason then maybe 10 the following before turning pro.

Agree on your comments.

The skills I'm talking about are the basic hockey skills:
- The Comets are terrible at stick handling.
- Can't dupe a single opponent in a 1 on 1.
- Can't score on a breakaway nor shootout attempt, often losing control on their "moves".
- Lose the puck off their sticks while skating with it.
- Passes bounce off their sticks as if they were made of rubber.
- Make a little deke and lose the puck.
- Consistently pass the puck out of reach, behind, into the feet, feet over the stick of their intended.
- Miss the net much more than they hit it.
- Clumsily mishandle the puck and as a result get stripped, get their shots blocked because it took them so long to collect and set it up.
- Senselessly glide or worse slough around the ice as if they have no idea of where to go or what to do next.

I swear it's like they should be doing pee wee how to play hockey drills in practice every day.

The biggest fault in all of this has to be laid on the coaching. How can you not work to fix these basic things?

Then explain:
- How do you have a #31 league ranked PP and not change the ridiculous stationary setup that obviously doesn't work!?

- How do you have a #26 ranked PK that never challenges the puck?

- How/WHY do you have a defensive system that backs up when even 1 guy skates into your zone 1on 1,1 on 2, 1 on 3? It doesn't matter. They just back up with no effort made to challenge him. He is allowed to skate freely wherever he wants to go and allows for his mates to arrive and take up spots where they operate their offense. It is simply bizarre. Then they wonder why they get hemmed in for entire shifts and their goalie has to come up big and on many occasions several times on a single shift.

- The Ruff system of 5 guys in a little square between the dots to the goal line is a setup for a shooting gallery. The points and a 3rd player allowed to run all over setting each other up and the other 2 in the mix of Comets both helping to clog up the net front naturally creating screens and being available for tips and rebounds. It's not defense! It's total asinine chaos. Dineen either doesn't understand it or the players are simply unable to do it. They never challenge the puck. They gain control by getting pucks in the mess and pushing it up the ice or to the boards and chasing it to break out of the zone which may happen half the time or less. More often than not they are beaten to the puck by the 3 unhampered guys who just get there first and it starts all over again. Their main way of getting the puck is a mistake made by the opponent which gives the Comets possession.

I digress, but Filmon is going to be installed into this system and his puck skills will be the key to working in it. Most of his current mates are lacking in that department. Last year's team overcame this chaos because they had a bunch of better players with better puck skills and, honestly, were just better hockey players. We have to hope for Filmon's sake they have a better bunch of players when he gets here for good in 24/25. The current bunch is so frustrating to watch and you can see they are equally frustrated with how things go, especially the few better ones.

 

[My3Sons]

Agree on your comments.

The skills I'm talking about are the basic hockey skills:
- The Comets are terrible at stick handling.
- Can't dupe a single opponent in a 1 on 1.
- Can't score on a breakaway nor shootout attempt, often losing control on their "moves".
- Lose the puck off their sticks while skating with it.
- Passes bounce off their sticks as if they were made of rubber.
- Make a little deke and lose the puck.
- Consistently pass the puck out of reach, behind, into the feet, feet over the stick of their intended.
- Miss the net much more than they hit it.
- Clumsily mishandle the puck and as a result get stripped, get their shots blocked because it took them so long to collect and set it up.
- Senselessly glide or worse slough around the ice as if they have no idea of where to go or what to do next.

I swear it's like they should be doing pee wee how to play hockey drills in practice every day.

The biggest fault in all of this has to be laid on the coaching. How can you not work to fix these basic things?

Then explain:
- How do you have a #31 league ranked PP and not change the ridiculous stationary setup that obviously doesn't work!?

- How do you have a #26 ranked PK that never challenges the puck?

- How/WHY do you have a defensive system that backs up when even 1 guy skates into your zone 1on 1,1 on 2, 1 on 3? It doesn't matter. They just back up with no effort made to challenge him. He is allowed to skate freely wherever he wants to go and allows for his mates to arrive and take up spots where they operate their offense. It is simply bizarre. Then they wonder why they get hemmed in for entire shifts and their goalie has to come up big and on many occasions several times on a single shift.

- The Ruff system of 5 guys in a little square between the dots to the goal line is a setup for a shooting gallery. The points and a 3rd player allowed to run all over setting each other up and the other 2 in the mix of Comets both helping to clog up the net front naturally creating screens and being available for tips and rebounds. It's not defense! It's total asinine chaos. Dineen either doesn't understand it or the players are simply unable to do it. They never challenge the puck. They gain control by getting pucks in the mess and pushing it up the ice or to the boards and chasing it to break out of the zone which may happen half the time or less. More often than not they are beaten to the puck by the 3 unhampered guys who just get there first and it starts all over again. Their main way of getting the puck is a mistake made by the opponent which gives the Comets possession.

I digress, but Filmon is going to be installed into this system and his puck skills will be the key to working in it. Most of his current mates are lacking in that department. Last year's team overcame this chaos because they had a bunch of better players with better puck skills and, honestly, were just better hockey players. We have to hope for Filmon's sake they have a better bunch of players when he gets here for good in 24/25. The current bunch is so frustrating to watch and you can see they are equally frustrated with how things go, especially the few better ones.

To me the part that gets glossed over is how few players have skill in general. These are guys one step from thr NHL and they can’t execute basic skill plays. I imagine that AAA players in most other sports are closer to the major league than they are to gifted amateurs but in hockey this doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[devilsblood]

To me the part that gets glossed over is how few players have skill in general. These are guys one step from thr NHL and they can’t execute basic skill plays. I imagine that AAA players in most other sports are closer to the major league than they are to gifted amateurs but in hockey this doesn’t seem to be the case.

I'm not agreeing with this at all.

 

[Guttersniped]

To me the part that gets glossed over is how few players have skill in general. These are guys one step from thr NHL and they can’t execute basic skill plays. I imagine that AAA players in most other sports are closer to the major league than they are to gifted amateurs but in hockey this doesn’t seem to be the case.

Don’t agree with this and there’s no real comparable since minor leagues function differently.

I don’t see how Baseball’s AAA teams have better players than AHL actually, both MLB hitting and pitching is such a barrier to players making that jump.

The AHL is a very competitive league, most CHL and NCAA players can’t actually make AHL teams (or even ECHL teams). They play in one of the many random lower level pro-leagues or wash out.

Utica lacks centers or play-driving forwards. We didn’t have them as prospects and they didn’t fill the void with FA signings so this is what you get.

The team needs to sign some forward FAs who can play center and can move the puck or Utica will definitely have real problems. I’m not saying the signing guarantee anything but that’s how you address this.

 

[My3Sons]

Don’t agree with this and there’s no real comparable since minor leagues function differently.

I don’t see how Baseball’s AAA teams have better players than AHL actually, both MLB hitting and pitching is such a barrier to players making that jump.

The AHL is a very competitive league, most CHL and NCAA players can’t actually make AHL teams (or even ECHL teams). They play in one of the many random lower level pro-leagues or wash out.

Utica lacks centers or play-driving forwards. We didn’t have them as prospects and they didn’t fill the void with FA signings so this is what you get.

The team needs to sign some forward FAs who can play center and can move the puck or Utica will definitely have real problems. I’m not saying the signing guarantee anything but that’s how you address this.

There is no equivalent of Mason Geersten in any other league to my eyes.

 

[Guttersniped]

There is no equivalent of Mason Geersten in any other league to my eyes.

Ok, he’s not amazingly terrible in any way so I don’t get what that proves.

If we had the kind of players we need in Utica hsving a guy like Geersten there wouldn’t be issue at all, it’s a bit of one because it would have been nice to have a more useful tweener on a tweener.

We had the contract spots for more players so he didn’t even block them adding that player last off-season though.

 

[My3Sons]

Ok, he’s not amazingly terrible in any way so I don’t get what that proves.

If we had the kind of players we need in Utica hsving a guy like Geersten there wouldn’t be issue at all, it’s a bit of one because it would have been nice to have a more useful tweener on a tweener.

We had the contract spots for more players so he didn’t even block them adding that player last off-season though.

We can agree to disagree. This is just an opinion issue

 

[Bad Goalie]

To me the part that gets glossed over is how few players have skill in general. These are guys one step from thr NHL and they can’t execute basic skill plays. I imagine that AAA players in most other sports are closer to the major league than they are to gifted amateurs but in hockey this doesn’t seem to be the case.

I would somewhat agree with you, but the Comets opponents outnumber them by a great advantage in the basic plays game in and game out. That's the part that has driven me crazy all season and I've taken it out on my computer posts.

 

[My3Sons]

I would somewhat agree with you, but the Comets opponents outnumber them by a great advantage in the basic plays game in and game out. That's the part that has driven me crazy all season and I've taken it out on my computer posts.

There has been AAA baseball in my area for most of the time I’ve lived here. My son has attended multiple G League games and thr players are generally not close to the highest level but it’s in the details or they just aren’t big enough strong enough or fast enough or smart enough to get enough from their talent to get any further. They generally don’t struggle with the basics. Maybe the closest comparable would be the 7 footer who can’t dribble or shoot from more than three feet or hit a foul shot but the way basketball is going those guys will be even fewer and farther between than they are now.

 

[devilsblood]

There has been AAA baseball in my area for most of the time I’ve lived here. My son has attended multiple G League games and thr players are generally not close to the highest level but it’s in the details or they just aren’t big enough strong enough or fast enough or smart enough to get enough from their talent to get any further. They generally don’t struggle with the basics. Maybe the closest comparable would be the 7 footer who can’t dribble or shoot from more than three feet or hit a foul shot but the way basketball is going those guys will be even fewer and farther between than they are now.

There are definitely AAA players who are bad hitters or bad fielders or pitchers who struggle to throw strikes.

I know this because there are guys in the majors who struggle with these things.

Ive seen brutal olines for the Giants for years. Ive seen terrible qb play for the Jets for years. And football doesn’t even have a minor league system(though they keep trying to prop up these spring leagues).

So is there some steep drop off in skill and talent from the NHL to the AHL that you don’t see in other sports? Nah, the drop off in talent is very similar to other sports.

 

[Bad Goalie]

wrong thread

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

4/2/23
Syracuse Crunch @ Utica Comets

It's the 3rd of 3 in 3 for both teams.
Syracuse is 2-0/4 pts and the Comets 0-1-0-1/1pt
Comets come into the Game i n4th place having been replaced by Rochester (also 2-0/4 pts) and syracuse now tied for 2nd 2 pts ahead of Utica.

Forwards:
15 Gambardella/ 28 Pinho/ 12 Thompson
25 Foote/ 26 Schmelzer/ 8 Hawryluk
67 Parent/ 21 Stevens/ 92 Clarke
55 Geertsen/ 77 Talvitie/ 79 Laberge

D-Pairs"
65 Hayes/ 5 Russo
23 Wotherspoon/ 7 Nemec
75 Groleau/ 22 Walsh

Scratches:
Daws (BU)
Poulter (H)
Filmon (H)
Gourley (H)
Engaras (H)
Ibragimov (H)
Holtz (ill)
Halonen (Med. issue)
Hutchison (Inj)
Vukojevic (Inj)
Hatakka (Inj)

1st period
The Comets came out and promptly surrendered the 1st goal on the PP at 1:46 , 1 minute gone on the PP.

Utica fought back and tied it at 1 on a goal from Nemec at 5:50.

About 4 minutes later Clarke struck for his 23rd of the season putting the Comets up 2-1 at 10:03. That's how the period ended.

2nd period
The Comets can never seem to enjoy the slightest bit of prosperity. Once again the firstminutes of a period are disastrous.

The Crunch struck at 1:11 to tie it up at 2.

The Comets still hadn't got their heads out of their assses and a little over a minute later at 2:28 the crunch scored again to go up 3-2

It took the Comets 10 minutes for Gambardella to step up and score unassisted at 11:18 to knot it at 3.

What's that about prosperity? The Comets hadn't even stopped congratulating each other up and down the bench when the Crunch answered right back 11 SECONDS LATER!!!!!!!! to make it 4-3 Syracuse.

It was looking pretty grim when Foote stepped up and scored at 15:24 to make it a tie game once again, 4-4.

Utica actually threatened to put up more with the aid of 2 PPs. It was the best it has looked in months. Maybe all season. However, they came up empty and the period ended at 4-4.

3rd period
Both teams flexed their muscles and chance after chance happened both ways, but never crossed the goal line. The Comets PP would go 0/2 in the 1st 8 minutes. The rest of the period would see neither team to sit on the point and threats came from all over at both ends. Neverthless the period ended tied at 4 and OT would be next.

OT
Lots of nailbiting as both teams turned it over a couple times. Comets had 2 2on1s and failed to hit the net on either one. The shots ended 2-1 Comets, but that doesn't tell the story of the chances blocked and deflected and that went wide. Now it's a shootout.

Shootout
The Comets have not been doing well in the shootouts. Thye have lost 2 to the Amerks on the last 2 successive Fridays and failed to score a single goal. Earlier in the season they had one go11 rounds and lost after only scoring once.

Round 1
The Crunch went first and Gage Gonclaves was stopped by Schmid.

Foote went first for the Comets and broke their shootout drought with a pretty goal.
1-0 Comets

Round 2
Lucas Edmonds scored with a shot from in close over Schmid's glove side shoulder.
1-1

Graeme Clarke who failed in both Rochester tries moved straight into Hugo Alnefelt getting close while skating slowly deked right left, right left, right left, right left and then swiftly blew it past him.
The building was the loudest it's been all season.
2-1 Comets

Round 3
Everyone in the building knows Schmid can send this crowd and he and his mates out of here floating on a huge high.
Rudolfs Balcers comes in on Akira and he was stopped cold. he roof came off the Aud.

In what might have been the most critical game the Comets have played all season they dug down deep and found a way to win.

The result is they climbed back into a tie with Rochester for 3rd both one point behind Syracuse for 2nd,and more importantly stretched their lead over 5th place Laval to 4 pts. Syracuse and Rochester have a game in hand on both Utica and Laval. Rochester and Syracuse will play that game against each other on Wednesday. and follow it up with another on Friday.

Utica has #1 Toronto on Friday and Rochester on Saturday.

Wrong thread man. Do you have any input on Filmon in the 2 games he played though?

 

[My3Sons]

There are definitely AAA players who are bad hitters or bad fielders or pitchers who struggle to throw strikes.

I know this because there are guys in the majors who struggle with these things.

Ive seen brutal olines for the Giants for years. Ive seen terrible qb play for the Jets for years. And football doesn’t even have a minor league system(though they keep trying to prop up these spring leagues).

So is there some steep drop off in skill and talent from the NHL to the AHL that you don’t see in other sports? Nah, the drop off in talent is very similar to other sports.

A mediocre NBA player once said that he was closer to LeBron than we were to him. There are some thuggish hockey players that don’t fit that bill to me. Someone like Brett Seney has worlds of skill but he’s a bit too small and not quite a good enough skater for it to translate to thr NHL. Again I see a parallel with the slug 7 footer and sure a really big slug o lineman might be similar but they don’t stay employed. The common thread I’m realizing is big strong guys without skill.

 

[Guttersniped]

A mediocre NBA player once said that he was closer to LeBron than we were to him. There are some thuggish hockey players that don’t fit that bill to me. Someone like Brett Seney has worlds of skill but he’s a bit too small and not quite a good enough skater for it to translate to thr NHL. Again I see a parallel with the slug 7 footer and sure a really big slug o lineman might be similar but they don’t stay employed. The common thread I’m realizing is big strong guys without skill.

I don’t know what that means since sure, I don’t play basketball at all, so a guy in the NBA probably is. Was a starter? How “mediocre” was he? We went from comparing AHL players to an NBA roster player. They only have 15 players on their roster. Isn’t this comparison with G-League players? Or whatever is the other top pro-basketball league?

There are very few guys who earn their keep by fighting, it’s a very small part of the game since any more than 9 fighting majors a season gets you suspended in the AHL.


A lot of bottom six energy forwards scored plenty in the CHL or in the NCAA.

Geertsen was originally a defenseman, it’s tougher quantify whatever you’re trying to quantify here.

Defensive play is one of the reasons AHL players can be call-ups. When you play in the bottom six your first job is not to get scored on and keep possession.

Prospects typically don’t get to play in the NHL not because the production isn’t immediately there but because they get bent over defensively by NHL players. This is particularly true with defensemen. Skill doesn’t always just equal scoring.

On the mainboards enough you come across posters who played against fringy “plugs” after they retired, sometimes they’re slumming and playing in some lesser league.

And their skill absolutely blows everyone out of the water, to the point that they barely try against these players, because when they do they can completely blow them away in every aspect of the game. They actually are very skilled, if you’re comparing them to players in lesser leagues, it just doesn’t come out when you’re playing in the best league in the world.

How many other leagues are better than the AHL? The KHL maybe is better? It’s a development league so it’s hard to directly compare it to SHL, Liiga, etc, but it’s incredibly competitive.

 

[Bad Goalie]

There has been AAA baseball in my area for most of the time I’ve lived here. My son has attended multiple G League games and thr players are generally not close to the highest level but it’s in the details or they just aren’t big enough strong enough or fast enough or smart enough to get enough from their talent to get any further. They generally don’t struggle with the basics. Maybe the closest comparable would be the 7 footer who can’t dribble or shoot from more than three feet or hit a foul shot but the way basketball is going those guys will be even fewer and farther between than they are now.

I grew up in Rochester a diehard Rochester Red Wings fan. My high school team mate and 1 Hell of a pitcher was their bat boy his Jr Year. The Wings at that time were phenomenal and most would be on the Oriole World Series teams.

Some of note I can remember are Davey Johnson, Mike Epstein, Bobby Grich, Sam Bowens, Mark Belanger, Boog Powell, Andy Etchebarren, Johnny Oates, Tom Phoebus, Dave Leonard, Terry Crowley, Curt Motton, Merv Rettenmund, Don Baylor, Paul Blair, Bobby Floyd, Fred Beene, Jim Palmer.

Cal Ripken was the International League Rookie of the Year in 1981 paying for Rochester. I was long gone from Rochester by then.

Billy Demars managed the Wings in1968. I played semi-pro with his son, Billy Demars, Jr. who had just been cut by the Miami Marlins. Our team was loaded with summer players brought in from Puerto Rico for the Summer by the food company that sponsored us, GOYA. It had 2 Alomar brothers. One played with Rochester and his wife worked with my mom at city hall. The other had made it to Triple A Columbus. They were uncles of the 1st major league Alomars.

Our best pitcher had blown his arm out in Miami and came back to Rochester to rehab in the summer. He was, I think, 5 years older than me but had grown up in my neighborhood as a kid. He was a fire balling leftie with a hellacious curve ball. He was dynamite in a can for the Rochester Muny league, but never recovered his major league promise. He ended up a pitching coach in the Orioles minor A-leagues. I was the 1st baseman, but in an emergency one Sunday I was the only guy who had caught, so I got to catch Timmy. He called his own game by accepting or shaking off my signs. By the 4th inning I had learned how he wanted to go and he rarely shook me off. I was ultra proud of myself for catching this guy for 9 innings and had no pass balls with that breaking ball that fell off the table and like most pro breaking balls, they were almost always in the dirt.

I had my dalliances in the pits of the outskirts of pro ball, and like hockey, it's amazing the difference from guys who are really good and those that are REAL GOOD and don't hang around the basements very long. You get to recognize the blue chipper real fast and they separate themselves from the rest real quick. Then the last step separates thee ones from the almosts. Triple A baseball and AHL hockey is where that happens except for the few like Hughes every season who don't have to wait.

Thompson is currently tinkering with becoming an almost. His clock is ticking. I hope he can get it together, but right now the NHL is above his grade.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Wrong thread man. Do you have any input on Filmon in the 2 games he played though?

Thanx
Moved it to the Comets thread.

I already posted that either in this thread or over on the Comets thread.

EDIT: I just checked. It's in this thread. Just back up a few posts.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I don’t know what that means since sure, I don’t play basketball at all, so a guy in the NBA probably is. Was a starter? How “mediocre” was he? We went from comparing AHL players to an NBA roster player. They only have 15 players on their roster. Isn’t this comparison with G-League players? Or whatever is the other top pro-basketball league?

There are very few guys who earn their keep by fighting, it’s a very small part of the game since any more than 9 fighting majors a season gets you suspended in the AHL.


A lot of bottom six energy forwards scored plenty in the CHL or in the NCAA.

Geertsen was originally a defenseman, it’s tougher quantify whatever you’re trying to quantify here.

Defensive play is one of the reasons AHL players can be call-ups. When you play in the bottom six your first job is not to get scored on and keep possession.

Prospects typically don’t get to play in the NHL not because the production isn’t immediately there but because they get bent over defensively by NHL players. This is particularly true with defensemen. Skill doesn’t always just equal scoring.

On the mainboards enough you come across posters who played against fringy “plugs” after they retired, sometimes they’re slumming and playing in some lesser league.

And their skill absolutely blows everyone out of the water, to the point that they barely try against these players, because when they do they can completely blow them away in every aspect of the game. They actually are very skilled, if you’re comparing them to players in lesser leagues, it just doesn’t come out when you’re playing in the best league in the world.

How many other leagues are better than the AHL? The KHL maybe is better? It’s a development league so it’s hard to directly compare it to SHL, Liiga, etc, but it’s incredibly competitive.

Brian “the White Mamba” Scalabrine said that. He was a journeyman who averaged 3 points a game for his career. He’s 6-9 240 and could shoot pretty well, he was definitely closer to LBJ than we are to him.

He even proved it lol. Cooked a high schooler 11-0 1 on 1 when he was an old man:


Even a scrub is a top ~500 player on the planet.

 

[Guttersniped]

Brian “the White Mamba” Scalabrine said that. He was a journeyman who averaged 3 points a game for his career. He’s 6-9 240 and could shoot pretty well, he was definitely closer to LBJ than we are to him.

He even proved it lol. Cooked a high schooler 11-0 1 on 1 when he was an old man:


Even a scrub is a top ~500 player on the planet.

He played over 520 NBA games, he’s not going to suck compared to someone who’s not making an NBA team.

But to swing it back to the AHL, there are guys who play in the ECHL trying to get in the AHL.

And guys play in the SPHL trying to get in the ECHL, that’s basically the better single A US pro-hockey league. There’s the FPHL below that.

And all sorts of amateur leagues, like a ton. (Elite Prospects lists 36 North American ones, all but 3 are in Canada.)

Geertsen isn’t very bad at hockey. He really isn’t. He would would get destroyed defensively if he was very bad at it. There’s a demand for larger physical players but it’s still difficult to make it even in those roles.

I don’t want him in a Devils uniform ever again under any circumstances, and Utica needed an another tweener scoring center way more, but he’s not a problem by himself.

 

[devilsblood]

He played over 520 NBA games, he’s not going to suck compared to someone who’s not making an NBA team.

But to swing it back to the AHL, there are guys who play in the ECHL trying to get in the AHL.

And guys play in the SPHL trying to get in the ECHL, that’s basically the better single A US pro-hockey league. There’s the FPHL below that.

And all sorts of amateur leagues, like a ton. (Elite Prospects lists 36 North American ones, all but 3 are in Canada.)

Geertsen isn’t very bad at hockey. He really isn’t. He would would get destroyed defensively if he was very bad at it. There’s a demand for larger physical players but it’s still difficult to make it even in those roles.

I don’t want him in a Devils uniform ever again under any circumstances, and Utica needed an another tweener scoring center way more, but he’s not a problem by himself.

Geertsen on a high school team would be dominant.

And Veal was a better pro(2nd round puck I believe) then Geertsen.

But Filmon is definitely a prospect im high on.

 

[bossram]

To me the part that gets glossed over is how few players have skill in general. These are guys one step from thr NHL and they can’t execute basic skill plays. I imagine that AAA players in most other sports are closer to the major league than they are to gifted amateurs but in hockey this doesn’t seem to be the case.

??

From personal experience and basically what everyone who's played any level of somewhat competitive hockey says...this seems not true.

Lacking basic skill plays? If you plopped a guy who used to play CHL, NCAA Div 1, or a career AHLer into a beer league game, they would be by far the most skilled player on the ice.

I remember playing in a summer tournament and Tyler Benson, Brandon Hickey, and Brett Pollock were on an Edmonton team. Now, these guys got drafted but never really became NHLers, in the latter two cases not even close. They were also playing up in age at this tournament. They were so much better than everyone else it was not even funny. Full body length toe drag into a top-shelf snipe kinda stuff.

The NHL level is just a massive step up in pace and physicality. Everyone there is "skilled". But the minimum bar of coordination and hockey IQ to execute those things at the NHL level is insanely high.

 

[Triumph]

??

From personal experience and basically what everyone who's played any level of somewhat competitive hockey says...this seems not true.

Lacking basic skill plays? If you plopped a guy who used to play CHL, NCAA Div 1, or a career AHLer into a beer league game, they would be by far the most skilled player on the ice.

I remember playing in a summer tournament and Tyler Benson, Brandon Hickey, and Brett Pollock were on an Edmonton team. Now, these guys got drafted but never really became NHLers, in the latter two cases not even close. They were also playing up in age at this tournament. They were so much better than everyone else it was not even funny. Full body length toe drag into a top-shelf snipe kinda stuff.

The NHL level is just a massive step up in pace and physicality. Everyone there is "skilled". But the minimum bar of coordination and hockey IQ to execute those things at the NHL level is insanely high.

I think some people are getting mixed up because they are taking one person's assessment of Utica - where apparently most of the players have two left feet and five thumbs on their hands, the strategy and tactics are awful, the team is always on their heels, and yet they're one game below .500 in regulation - as the gospel truth.

 

[bossram]

I think some people are getting mixed up because they are taking one person's assessment of Utica - where apparently most of the players have two left feet and five thumbs on their hands, the strategy and tactics are awful, the team is always on their heels, and yet they're one game below .500 in regulation - as the gospel truth.

Even if it's true that Utica is managed/coached very poorly...guys in the AHL are still skilled hockey players. They're just not NHLers. Which is why they're not in the NHL.

 

[Guttersniped]

I think some people are getting mixed up because they are taking one person's assessment of Utica - where apparently most of the players have two left feet and five thumbs on their hands, the strategy and tactics are awful, the team is always on their heels, and yet they're one game below .500 in regulation - as the gospel truth.

And while there’s exaggeration there, Utica does lack offense, specifically centers and play drivers. Foote and Clarke have managed to get their points but they needed at least another center.

It doesn’t make players talentless bums, they would soundly beat NCAA teams.

I was going to get into Utica more then I realized this is Filmon thread and took pity on humanity lol.

 

[My3Sons]

??

From personal experience and basically what everyone who's played any level of somewhat competitive hockey says...this seems not true.

Lacking basic skill plays? If you plopped a guy who used to play CHL, NCAA Div 1, or a career AHLer into a beer league game, they would be by far the most skilled player on the ice.

I remember playing in a summer tournament and Tyler Benson, Brandon Hickey, and Brett Pollock were on an Edmonton team. Now, these guys got drafted but never really became NHLers, in the latter two cases not even close. They were also playing up in age at this tournament. They were so much better than everyone else it was not even funny. Full body length toe drag into a top-shelf snipe kinda stuff.

The NHL level is just a massive step up in pace and physicality. Everyone there is "skilled". But the minimum bar of coordination and hockey IQ to execute those things at the NHL level is insanely high.

It’s not about you and me it’s about the other pros. As I’ve noted the closest equivalent is the big man who can’t hit a free throw. You know we can find a high school team they could beat a team of certain NBA players in a foul shot contest. It’s less pronounced now in hockey but you really don’t think I could find a bunch of college guys who are better than Mason Geersten if we put a radar gun on their shot and put them through combine style drills? Just my thoughts and impression.

Edit - as aptly noted by @Guttersniped this is the Filmon thread and this issue can be continued somewhere else if anyone cares.