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GDT: - #13 | Flyers at Hurricanes | Tuesday, November 5, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM | Page 12 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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GDT: #13 | Flyers at Hurricanes | Tuesday, November 5, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

Bunch of Jurcos said:
I was very excited to see Michkov but he just disappeared in the third? He seemed like he was lost at times and when he got lost he’d go straight to the bench. There’s a lot of work to be done on his game but you can’t tell that he’s already one of the most if not the most talented Flyer.


It’s true. It’s damn true. :(
Click to expand...
Work that coaching magic John. Almost got all the offense out of michkov already
 
Frost's shin pad broke his season long struggle with wide open nets!

At least MM got a point, but not sure about Bee-Laughts-MM
 
Frost finally got a goal, of course, he whiffed on the shot and it went in off his shin guard.
Watching Frost and Necas, please don't tell me Frost is a top 6 forward anymore.

Flyers hung in there, Kolosov is a work in progress, some nice saves, but the 2nd goal was on him and the third goal was a bad rebound left in front of the net. The winning goal was on Sanheim, who should have cleared the puck to the corner instead of in front of the net.

If there is a template of what the Flyers are trying to do, it's Carolina. Constantly attacking, winning board battles, keeping the cycle going, etc. It's what the Flyers try to do, but they lack the talent to pull it off. But you can see why they drafted Luchanko, to play this style you need speed up front. Carolina doesn't have superstars, they play as a team. They'd be dangerous if they ever find a franchise goalie.

They were outmatched, but kept the game competitive, but wore down as the game went along.
Flyers are 2-3 years from matching up with teams like the Hurricanes, but games like this show them where they need to upgrade.

Bunch of Jurcos said:
I was very excited to see Michkov but he just disappeared in the third? He seemed like he was lost at times and when he got lost he’d go straight to the bench. There’s a lot of work to be done on his game but you can’t tell that he’s already one of the most if not the most talented Flyer.
Click to expand...
He's 19, most teams would have him on a sheltered 3rd line role playing 12 minutes 5x5 and 1 minute on the PP2. In three years, Michkov will be a superstar, but right now we're seeing his growing pains.
 
Playing in Florida the next couple games, good chance they’ll lose both and be 4-10-1 on the season. The next game vs San Jose is one to circle. It could determine critical lottery seeding at the end of the year
 
WE DID IT!
1730874155842.png
 
I thought Kolosov and Fedotov were bad, but Kochetkov may very well take the cake. At least he has a real team in front of him so there's no excuse.

Risto, TK, Coots had solid games. Still so many poor passing and positioning decisions by the team overall though.

Kolosov looked ok. Andrae's good play early on was overshadowed by his play in the 3rd.

Michkov was meh. He got a point, which is great. But he also looked lazy on 3-4 passes or plays where an extra effort gets him the puck, but he looked like he was uninterested. He made some poor passing decisions again too. All part of learning I guess.
 
deadhead said:
Frost finally got a goal, of course, he whiffed on the shot and it went in off his shin guard.
Watching Frost and Necas, please don't tell me Frost is a top 6 forward anymore.
Click to expand...
Necas is, and has always been, a much better player than Frost. I don't think anyone here would argue differently, so saying that Frost isn't a top 6 forward because he's not as good as Frost is misrepresentative.

Necas has a 70 point season under his belt at age 24. He's got 20 points in 11 games so far this season. If you watched any Carolina games other than the 3-4 games against the Flyers, you can clearly see the talent level of Necas. He's always been a supremely talented player, he just hasn't always put it together when it comes to the scoresheet.

Below is his goal threat presented by Hockey Viz. You can see he's always been an above average finisher and passer. This year is not on this figure, but it's aligned with his abilities from his 25 year old season.
1730897983642.png


Here's his player card from 23-24:
1730898031685.png


Here's his player card from 22-23:

1730898068910.png


Here his player card from 21-22:

1730898109621.png


So, I'm fine if you want to scrutinize Frost. He's not been particularly great at the beginning (he's also not been nearly as bad as you're letting off). But, let's stop comparing Frost to legit top line players because that's not fair to begin with.

deadhead said:
They were outmatched, but kept the game competitive, but wore down as the game went along.
Flyers are 2-3 years from matching up with teams like the Hurricanes, but games like this show them where they need to upgrade.
Click to expand...
The Flyers wabsolutely got there asses handed to them, and only kept the game competitive because of two lucky bounces. Total shot attempts were 86-36. That's not competitive. The unblocked 5v5 shots looked like this:

1730898741306.png


deadhead said:
If there is a template of what the Flyers are trying to do, it's Carolina. Constantly attacking, winning board battles, keeping the cycle going, etc. It's what the Flyers try to do, but they lack the talent to pull it off. But you can see why they drafted Luchanko, to play this style you need speed up front. Carolina doesn't have superstars, they play as a team. They'd be dangerous if they ever find a franchise goalie.
Click to expand...
Here's something where I actually agree. I think the Flyers are trying to build a team like Carolina. I think they want that aggressive, up-tempo style. But Carolina is built from top to bottom, not just the roster - the entire organization, to do this. From drafting to NHL scouting to coaching to the players, the Carolina team operates differently. Carolina would have never signed DeLo. They would never have signed that Hathaway contract extension. They wouldn't have signed Tippett to an 8 year deal. They take advantage of dumb teams all the time -- that's why they are so good.

I'd also agree that Carolina doesn't have 'superstars', but they have 3-4 forwards who are capable of scoring at a ppg, and the best supporting offensive and defensive cast in the league. I don't know how you can just hand waive the amount of raw talent this team has. The reason they can play so quick is because the entire team has an elevated skill level. The Flyers don't have anything like this in their prospect pool.
 
VladDrag said:
I'd also agree that Carolina doesn't have 'superstars', but they have 3-4 forwards who are capable of scoring at a ppg, and the best supporting offensive and defensive cast in the league. I don't know how you can just hand waive the amount of raw talent this team has. The reason they can play so quick is because the entire team has an elevated skill level. The Flyers don't have anything like this in their prospect pool.
Click to expand...
Briere just hired 2 MS degrees for the analytics group, that's a real commitment, not inflating numbers by hiring an intern or two. So they are obviously putting a bigger emphasis there.

Carolina gave Kotkaniemi an 8 year, AVV $4.8M deal on an offer sheet, first three years of the deal, 25, 31 and 24 ES points.
They gave Martinook a 3x3M deal at age 31. Gave Staal 4x$2.9M deal at age 35.
Signed Carrier to a 6x$2M deal starting at 30. Similar player to Hathaway.

Now they have more raw talent, their base was created when Peters badly coached this team for four years before BrindA'mour took over. That culminated in missing the POs 8 straight seasons.
Funny thing, they drafted well during that period, but traded away their top 10 picks:
2012: #120 Slavin
2013: #5 Lindholm #66 Pesce
2014: #7 Fleury, #66 Foegle
2015: #5 Hanifan, #35 Aho
2016; #13 Bean, #21 Gauthier
2017: #12 Necas, #42 Luostarinen
2018: #2 Svechnikov, #42 Drury
Since they turned things around, only successful picks are 2020: #13 Jarvis, 2021: #109 Blake.
they've relied on FA signings to fill out the roster the last couple years

The young core is at forward, Aho, Necas, Jarvis, Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi, Drury, Blake.
So draft forwards and sign/trade for veteran D-men?
Slavin (30), Burns (39), Orlov (33), Ghost (31), Walker (30).
 
If we had 4 or more expiring contracts at seasons end and were playing a style of hockey that win in 2024, I would be OK being in last place.

But my lord, you would be hard pressed to have players this bad and a coach this clueless and call it the culture we want to build.

Briere is not the man for the job and them choosing Torts over being the laughing stock of the NHL is so frustrating.

Not getting 20 shots a game is actually hard and impressive to do it so often no matter who you have for players.
 
We've got the same extra 1st and 2nd rd picks that most rebuilding teams obtain at the beginning of a rebuild. We just haven't had a chance to use half of them (6) 1sts, (6) 2nds in three years.

There is no one on the roster who'll bring a big return at this point, TK could have gotten you a late 1st, 2nd and a "B" asset, but then you'd have to find another 1st line forward in 3 years (and odds are you'd end up signing a 29 year old FA to more money as the cap rises).

Laughton, Risto are probably the only tradable commodities unless they give up on Frost and Farabee. Seeler and Hathaway were never getting you more than a late 3rd rd pick at best.

Briere has played this well, by not adding a veteran center, D-man and backup goalie,, he set this team up for failure without ever mentioning the word "tank." If they bounce back, it'll because young players are playing well, Couts, Seeler and Laughton ain't carrying this team to a playoff berth.
 
bennysflyers16 said:
If we had 4 or more expiring contracts at seasons end and were playing a style of hockey that win in 2024, I would be OK being in last place.

But my lord, you would be hard pressed to have players this bad and a coach this clueless and call it the culture we want to build.

Briere is not the man for the job and them choosing Torts over being the laughing stock of the NHL is so frustrating.

Not getting 20 shots a game is actually hard and impressive to do it so often no matter who you have for players.
Click to expand...
It really is impressive how bad their cap situation is given the current dead-last position. The biggest contract coming off the books is Pedersen's which is all but ($600,000) taken up by Konecny's increase. Erik Johnson ($1 million) also becomes a UFA.

DeAngelo's buyout finishes, so $1.67 million can be added to the bottom line.

Cates ($2.625 million), Frost ($2.1 million), York ($1.6 million), and Foerster ($863,334) become RFAs at the end of the season. York will be looking at the biggest raise, Foerster should get a decent increase, and I don't see them parting ways with Cates. That leaves Frost, who will likely (IMHO) be the player whom Luckanko ($975,000) replaces. Trading Frost for a pick/prospect saves them a whopping $1.125 million.

There is, of course, also Ryan Ellis ($6.25 million), who is on the books for the next 2 seasons. He can be put on LTIR with all of the implications that go with it.

In summary, they can add $4.4 million to their current $1.6 million in cap space by not resigning Johnson and replacing Frost with Luchanko, which will be offset by whatever raises York, Foerster, and Cates receive. If we estimate $5 million for York, $3.2 million for Cates, and $1.8 million for Foerster, that leaves $1 million. Hey, they can resign Johnson!!
 
What do they need cap room for next year?
They're not going to sign any FAs.
And cap room no longer has a lot of trade value.
 
VladDrag said:
Necas is, and has always been, a much better player than Frost. I don't think anyone here would argue differently, so saying that Frost isn't a top 6 forward because he's not as good as Frost is misrepresentative.

Necas has a 70 point season under his belt at age 24. He's got 20 points in 11 games so far this season. If you watched any Carolina games other than the 3-4 games against the Flyers, you can clearly see the talent level of Necas. He's always been a supremely talented player, he just hasn't always put it together when it comes to the scoresheet.

Below is his goal threat presented by Hockey Viz. You can see he's always been an above average finisher and passer. This year is not on this figure, but it's aligned with his abilities from his 25 year old season.
View attachment 926977

Here's his player card from 23-24:
View attachment 926978

Here's his player card from 22-23:

View attachment 926979

Here his player card from 21-22:

View attachment 926980

So, I'm fine if you want to scrutinize Frost. He's not been particularly great at the beginning (he's also not been nearly as bad as you're letting off). But, let's stop comparing Frost to legit top line players because that's not fair to begin with.


The Flyers wabsolutely got there asses handed to them, and only kept the game competitive because of two lucky bounces. Total shot attempts were 86-36. That's not competitive. The unblocked 5v5 shots looked like this:

View attachment 926984


Here's something where I actually agree. I think the Flyers are trying to build a team like Carolina. I think they want that aggressive, up-tempo style. But Carolina is built from top to bottom, not just the roster - the entire organization, to do this. From drafting to NHL scouting to coaching to the players, the Carolina team operates differently. Carolina would have never signed DeLo. They would never have signed that Hathaway contract extension. They wouldn't have signed Tippett to an 8 year deal. They take advantage of dumb teams all the time -- that's why they are so good.

I'd also agree that Carolina doesn't have 'superstars', but they have 3-4 forwards who are capable of scoring at a ppg, and the best supporting offensive and defensive cast in the league. I don't know how you can just hand waive the amount of raw talent this team has. The reason they can play so quick is because the entire team has an elevated skill level. The Flyers don't have anything like this in their prospect pool.
Click to expand...
I believe the Flyers believe they are trying to emulate the Canes, but one team takes advantage of stupid teams, and one is a stupid team. You can see it play out in real time by looking at the TDA trade. The Flyers are never going to be the Canes in that trade, they are (quite literally) the Flyers.
 
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