GDT: #11 | Blues vs Flyers | Thursday, October 31, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Curufinwe]

They really need to figure out how to be more incisive on the PP. The puck movement has been waaaaay better, but often times they actually hamper themselves by putting one guy on both posts. It condenses the other teams structure and we settle for bad angles or a screen with a shot provided from the D

Drysdale was brutal again. It's nuts that one of York or Sanheim can't get on a PP unit.

 

[VladDrag]

Very few offense first forwards excel on defense, what you want is those "45" "48" seasons, not the "1s" that many top scorers post. That is, don't score for both teams!

I don't expect Flyer forwards to be Barkov or prime Couts or Kopitar or Stone, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect scoring forwards to put enough effort on defense not to be a liability.

Torts' scheme doesn't demand a lot of wings defensively, back check, pick up your man, be aware when to leak out and when to help your D-men.

Far more is demanded from centers, where they have to be able to get back quickly and are almost like a 3rd D-man. Which is why they like speed at that position, and enough size to handle yourself in the D-zone. I think they fell in love with Luchanko b/c he's the prototype of what they're looking for at that position. A center with speed and smarts can take more risks in the O-zone, b/c he can get back quickly and buy time for the wings to catch up.

This is why I expect Couts to end up at wing in a couple years, where he won't have to skate as far and can use his size and smarts to be a top PF.

Individual seasons that Sidney Crosby won a Stanley Cup:

a 6, and 5 percentile in defensive impacts in 2/3 seasons....

 

[kudymen]

Can a random lickballs.gif cheerleader show up with a mic drop again?

 

[deadhead]

Now do Point.

 

[kudymen]

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Torts has been very patient, he said in camp he expected Michkov to make mistakes.

The focus isn't on skills, it's on fundamentals, at times Michkov "cherry picks," that doesn't work in the NHL (unless you want to develop the next Gagner). He also forces a lot of bad passes lately, bad habits probably from playing in the KHL where he could get away with it.

Just look at TK, Torts hasn't tried to "fix" him, God knows he'd drive any HC crazy, but that's his game, he takes risks and is overly aggressive at times, but it pays off (if it didn't pay off, he'd be treated differently). But TK also back checks hard, puts out the effort in his D-zone, so he's earned a long leash.

I'm not worried about Michkov/Torts, the problem comes with prima donnas who put their stat line above the team. Michkov is highly competitive and hates to lose, I'm sure when he sees the film he understands he has to get better at certain things to help the team. Torts isn't asking him to be a 3rd line checker, he wants him to be offense first without sacrificing the basics so he isn't a black hole.

Just look at Brink, whine about him being benched, but the last two games he's played the best hockey since he's been here, a complete player doing the little things to help his team, playing hard and with focus. He'll still make mistakes (like losing his man), but this Brink is a legitimate top 6 forward. Now he has to learn to sustain this effort over a full season.

What coach does that on this staff?

Brink shoud not have been benched.

Part of the reason you get stuck in the D-zone is forwards leaking out, which means you're playing 4 on 5.

Part is they are undersized, and lose too many board battles, you stop the cycle by regaining possession in these battles. They also get knocked off the puck trying to skate it out.

Part is talent, they don't have a lot of D-men with the vision to see the outlet pass quickly before the defense checks them.

Are you saying the GM hasn't done a good job so far?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Very few offense first forwards excel on defense, what you want is those "45" "48" seasons, not the "1s" that many top scorers post. That is, don't score for both teams!

I don't expect Flyer forwards to be Barkov or prime Couts or Kopitar or Stone, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect scoring forwards to put enough effort on defense not to be a liability.

Torts' scheme doesn't demand a lot of wings defensively, back check, pick up your man, be aware when to leak out and when to help your D-men.

Far more is demanded from centers, where they have to be able to get back quickly and are almost like a 3rd D-man. Which is why they like speed at that position, and enough size to handle yourself in the D-zone. I think they fell in love with Luchanko b/c he's the prototype of what they're looking for at that position. A center with speed and smarts can take more risks in the O-zone, b/c he can get back quickly and buy time for the wings to catch up.

This is why I expect Couts to end up at wing in a couple years, where he won't have to skate as far and can use his size and smarts to be a top PF.

Comical.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is it that this team doesn't have the offensive talent, or is it torts "structure" that is hindering this team from finding offensive success?

Yes.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The question is, where are they rolling to?

Towards the lowest elevation, I presume

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Drysdale was brutal again. It's nuts that one of York or Sanheim can't get on a PP unit.

I like him on the PP everywhere but the offensive zone....

He obviously can carry the puck and break in. When we get set up, he walks the line, which is great - he moves the puck which is also great....

....but he never makes any of the other teams fwds make a decision. He needs to step up with the puck and draw and dish. We don't make any 2v1s down low or up top when we get set up

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lol man I'm disappointed, we live in a giant neighborhood, and hardly anyone was giving out candy, luckily she's not old enough to remember as she's only 9+ months but still, being a kid in this day and age sucks

Bunch of people who probably can't wipe properly.


Drive down to my neighborhood. The whole overarching community is great for Halloween.

 

[BernieParent]

or they realize the other options not to enticing.

Probably both.

As long as York is out, it isn't the worst thing to have Andrae and Zamula flip back and forth every few games to develop them both, even if tied to the corpse of Erik Johnson ... who can continue to do his part to keep the Flyers as low as possible in the standings.

I am intrigued to see what happens when York returns and Briere has to decide between 3 goalies and Andrae/Zamula ... because we know Johnson won't be waived.

 

[deadhead]

Andrae and Zamula are both LHDs, neither is good enough there that I'd want to mess with them playing on their offside right now.
So Johnson is a necessary evil until York returns.

York - Sanheim
Andrae - Risto
Seeler - Drysdale

is how I'd go. Not sure there's much upside left with Zamula.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Defensive stalwart, Sidney Crosby:

View attachment 924885
View attachment 924888

View attachment 924890
View attachment 924891
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Now, with these images being posted, to be fair to Crosby, he's got a few individual seasons where he excelled defensively, but few and far between.

Goes to show you what a f***ing beast Kopitar has been throughout his career and the fact that he never received even close to the same hype Toews did makes him even easier to root for.

 

[BernieParent]

Bunch of people who probably can't wipe properly.


Drive down to my neighborhood. The whole overarching community is great for Halloween.

At the other end of the spectrum, we have a huge bowl of chocolate bars left over after only getting about a dozen visitors.

I had a funny interaction with a tween/teen boy. I gave him and his friend 3 mini chocolate bars and after dropping them into his sack he asked if he could have the Kit Kat on top of the bowl. I said sure but I wanted 1 of the bars back. He deftly pulled out a Popeye candy sticks box, which made me laugh out out. You, young man, have a bright future in sales and marketing!

Andrae and Zamula are both LHDs, neither is good enough there that I'd want to mess with them playing on their offside right now.
So Johnson is a necessary evil until York returns.

York - Sanheim
Andrae - Risto
Seeler - Drysdale

is how I'd go. Not sure there's much upside left with Zamula.

I agree with your D pairings and order, and would be pleased to see Johnson waived once York is back. Not much upside > Much downside.

 

[deadhead]

Goes to show you what a f***ing beast Kopitar has been throughout his career and the fact that he never received even close to the same hype Toews did makes him even easier to root for.

I suspect the same will happen to Barkov, overshadowed by those who score more but help their team win less.

 

[VladDrag]

Goes to show you what a f***ing beast Kopitar has been throughout his career and the fact that he never received even close to the same hype Toews did makes him even easier to root for.

While I agree, Kopitar was a beast, to me, what this shows, in terms of pure impact, is how important offense is than defense in the modern game.

 

[pit]

At the other end of the spectrum, we have a huge bowl of chocolate bars left over after only getting about a dozen visitors.

We had about 225 kids - 100 full-size bars and 250 minis. There were still kids coming when we had to shutdown due to running out. We're very much in a young family area that just keeps increasing. I thought it was amazing our first year here when we had over 100. Every year I buy more candy and every year we still manage to run out (except one where it poured buckets the whole evening).

Side note - It's fun to offer the choice between 1 full-size and 2 mini's and watch how many kids get more excited for getting two things instead of one.

 

[deadhead]

While I agree, Kopitar was a beast, to me, what this shows, in terms of pure impact, is how important offense is than defense in the modern game.

I suspect this is more a deficiency in analytics.
For example, PP and PK are mirror images. Yet PK performance is valued far below PP scoring.

Now there are situational issues that don't seem to be captured, in the first period, or if you're behind offense may have more value, but if you're ahead in the 3rd period, the marginal value of not allowing a goal >> than the value of adding an additional goal.

Baseball undervalued defense for a long time until they had the tools to measure the marginal value of that extra catch, etc. And even then it's still undervalued b/c the tools seem to ignore the synergies with pitchers, facing 2-3 less batters per start is 10 less pitches, allowing starters to pitch longer without additional strain on their arm and avoiding the use of your worst RPs.

I don't know how for example you can capture the value of a forward who is a high IQ defender in terms of allowing his linemates to take more risks, knowing he will be in position to stop an odd man rush in case of a turnover. It may show up indirectly (i.e. HDCF with him on the ice) but the direct impact is probably impossible to measure.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I suspect this is more a deficiency in analytics.
For example, PP and PK are mirror images. Yet PK performance is valued far below PP scoring.

Now there are situational issues that don't seem to be captured, in the first period, or if you're behind offense may have more value, but if you're ahead in the 3rd period, the marginal value of not allowing a goal >> than the value of adding an additional goal.

Baseball undervalued defense for a long time until they had the tools to measure the marginal value of that extra catch, etc. And even then it's still undervalued b/c the tools seem to ignore the synergies with pitchers, facing 2-3 less batters per start is 10 less pitches, allowing starters to pitch longer without additional strain on their arm and avoiding the use of your worst RPs.

I don't know how for example you can capture the value of a forward who is a high IQ defender in terms of allowing his linemates to take more risks, knowing he will be in position to stop an odd man rush in case of a turnover. It may show up indirectly (i.e. HDCF with him on the ice) but the direct impact is probably impossible to measure.

PK value is indeed lower in value than PP scoring, because scoring is how you win. It's very important.

Hockey definitely does not undervalue defense. The NHL is filled with teams who overvalue it to their own detriment. The Flyers being one of the most prominent culprits. The current trend towards teams realizing "Hey you win by scoring goals" is a long overdue correction.

 

[deadhead]

This is an analytics issue.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is an analytics issue.

Right. Analytics doesn't undervalue defense. Flawed existing bias in human meat-brains is what does that.

 

[Magua]

It's nuts that one of York or Sanheim can't get on a PP unit.

I'd wager to say there is 1 team in the NHL that Sanheim, the leading defense point getter for the 2nd consecutive season, is not on a PP1/2 unit. And it's not for reasons of success. There is such schlock across the league seeing regular PP time. Mr. Magoo could see who is the most skilled defender. Sanheim sees as much as Carlo and Gudbranson.

I like him on the PP everywhere but the offensive zone....

That's an "other than that how was the play Mrs. Lincoln" comment if I've ever seen one.

Drysdale is still half the NZ carrier Sanheim is. My problem with Drysdale's touches is that there's virtually zero playmaking or even a tempo. He mostly just settles on bad shots. It's representative of his 5v5 game too: nothing adds up into functional chance creation, not for himself or others.