GDT: #11 - 02/08/21 | islanders @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG, NBCSN

[Ola]

Last year we had two scoring lines though. This year with Zibanejad off to such a slow start there's really only one. Losing DeAngelo certainly didn't help our puck movement but before he left he wasn't playing very well either offensively or defensively. To some degree we're left waiting for Miller to do more. Trouba hopefully can pick it up a bit too.

Ziba has definitely not regained his form, and in addition, he is obviously a bit snake bitten. That’s life for a sniper in the NHL. Sometimes pucks go in and other times they don’t.

With that said, Ziba’s transition game is definitely victim in the way we play. He created a lot of offense last season of the rush. This year his line mostly start in trapping position when they come on.

It’s not the entire explanation for his lack of scoring, of course. But the bar should be sat a little lower accordingly.

Remember that we as a team were very flat offensively last year without Tony. It was night and day when he was hurt. I think Fox has been — fantastic — this season and that covers for some of the offense lost. But you can’t lose a top 3 offensive player like Tony D without it showing big time.

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe that’s an exaggeration but I’m extremely down on Howden. He’s in his 3rd season in the NHL and he still struggles. His lack of basic NHL skills is extremely frustrating. He is seemingly incapable of cleanly handling a pass even when it’s on his tape, flubs basically every shot he takes, loses the puck when stick handling, constantly falling down and finding himself out of position.

And I’m not sitting here expecting Howden to be more than he is or anything, I’m not mad because he’s not a 2C or something. I’m endlessly frustrated watching a player, in his 3rd NHL season under a coach who’s given him tons of opportunity, who can’t reliably do basic things we need even our 4th liners to do. What does it say about Howden when scrap heap fringe NHL guys like DiGi, Rooney and Blackwell all come in and are all better than he is?

I see what you're saying. Howden has been better and I do think he's been an NHL player this year, but if everyone gets healthy, I'd rather have all of PDG, Rooney, and Blackwell on our 4th line over Howden, at least right now.

 

[kovazub94]

The defense is improved at the cost of our offense though, which must be solved somehow.

The biggest reason we defend better is that we basically doesn't have a transition game/possession game anymore. Whenever we get the puck on our side of the ice we just move it up to gain the redline and dump it in before we go on a line change. Unless of course we can take the puck to the net directly. Hence we don't lose many pucks in areas that makes us vulnerable. This being fixed was a necessity, the way it has been fixed is quite extreme.

One observation is that we get into double trouble because the way we play right now, it is absolutely crucial to have offensive skill on the backend. We are one team offensively when Fox is on the ice and another without him. Not meant to be scientific, but it feels like we create 90% of our offense with Fox on the ice.

Disagree. Our offense is struggling because Zibanejad (especially) and Kreider are far from their form and the team is sorely missing Chytil as we all knew the team's center ice position depth was an issue.

So Zibanejad is struggling. Strome is not a line driver. Chytil is injured. Howden shouldn't be anywhere higher than 4C and it's not his fault he has to be 3C.

 

[will1066]

I see what you're saying. Howden has been better and I do think he's been an NHL player this year, but if everyone gets healthy, I'd rather have all of PDG, Rooney, and Blackwell on our 4th line over Howden, at least right now.

I think Blackwell needs to be with Panarin and Strome in order to be the new Fast. Chytil, Laf, and Kakko should play together. When it's a healthy lineup.

 

[Edge]

Maybe that’s an exaggeration but I’m extremely down on Howden. He’s in his 3rd season in the NHL and he still struggles. His lack of basic NHL skills is extremely frustrating. He is seemingly incapable of cleanly handling a pass even when it’s on his tape, flubs basically every shot he takes, loses the puck when stick handling, constantly falling down and finding himself out of position.

And I’m not sitting here expecting Howden to be more than he is or anything, I’m not mad because he’s not a 2C or something. I’m endlessly frustrated watching a player, in his 3rd NHL season under a coach who’s given him tons of opportunity, who can’t reliably do basic things we need even our 4th liners to do. What does it say about Howden when scrap heap fringe NHL guys like DiGi, Rooney and Blackwell all come in and are all better than he is?

He's been arguably one of our better players, was on the Rangers most effective line last night, and has generally been a damn solid fourth line center this season.

Would I love for more offense to be there to justify moving him up the third line? Sure.

But Howden has been the least of our problems right now.

 

[kovazub94]

Wow. He made one error. And, as I noted earlier, that pass was into a dangerous area but the Isles forward did a good job tying up our guy who was supposed to get the Hajek pass. How about Fox pinching early in the game and getting caught and Lindgren bailing him out on the Isle's 2 on 1? How about Fox allowing that centering feed to get by him on the second Isles goal? Everybody makes mistakes in a tight game. The top six not wanting to get dirty goals is the biggest problem right now, not the D.

Hajek tried the same pass earlier in the game too. He did it last game too and in these previous situations he was able to get away with it. He was doing it last season season too so apparently he hasn't learned. Unless you're 100% sure that the pass will reach its intended destination (honestly I can't even assume that Hajek had something specific in mind) that play should never happen.

 

[will1066]

Hajek tried the same pass earlier in the game too. He did it last game too and in these previous situations he was able to get away with it. He was doing it last season season too so apparently he hasn't learned. Unless you're 100% sure that the pass will reach its intended destination (honestly I can't even assume that Hajek had something specific in mind) that play should never happen.

I rewatched the play and broke it down. It's up a couple pages in the thread. I do agree that the type of pass is a Hajek Special, though.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Howden has been better this year but I think the root of the problem is him being moved up the lineup. If Quinn kept him at 4C consistently things would be better

(yes I’m aware Chytil being injured had forced them to move Howden up)

 

[Machinehead]

I think Blackwell needs to be with Panarin and Strome in order to be the new Fast. Chytil, Laf, and Kakko should play together. When it's a healthy lineup.

Right, but even then, that bumps Lemieux down.

 

[JimmyG89]

Can you explain further? You do realize that it was Strome hustling on the backcheck on Lee while Bailey carried the puck and tried to feed Lee was the reason why the puck got to Miller who then gave Panarin that great pass for his breakaway, right? You also do realize that Trouba (top 4) was pyloned on a partial breakaway? And Miller, as good as he's been, is not free of mistakes and that he's relied on his long reach to recover on his mistakes?

Okay, Trouba didn't have a good game last night. He's been overwhelmingly better this season than last. And of course Miller is going to have his ups and downs, that's fine, he's 11 games into his career.

Strome has been given the 2nd line center spot, to play along Panarin who he produced well with last season. He literally had his worst game this season. Okay, so he made one good play to force a turnover and spring a breakaway. It doesn't mean that he wasn't awful the entire rest of the night. This also does not mean that he hasn't had good games recently, but last night was just so bad overall.

If Chytil does not get hurt, he's centering the 2nd line right now. No question in my mind he moves up the chain based on how he was playing.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

He's been arguably one of our better players, was on the Rangers most effective line last night, and has generally been a damn solid fourth line center this season.

Would I love for more offense to be there to justify moving him up the third line? Sure.

But Howden has been the least of our problems right now.

I’m more than fine with Howden as a center on an energy line and PKer and I agree that he’s not one of our serious problems. I just have serious issues with his lack of reliable basic skill. It’s not just that he’s not making fancy plays or something like that, it’s that he can’t accept a pass cleanly or hit a teammate on the tape with his own passes. Stuff like that. Basic stuff that even your 4th liners need to be able to reliably do. With him being in his 3rd NHL season now it’s incredibly frustrating that he can’t do those very basic things reliably.

 

[True Blue]

Howden looks worse now than he did 3 years ago.

Whoa....nellie

 

[will1066]

Okay, Trouba didn't have a good game last night. He's been overwhelmingly better this season than last. And of course Miller is going to have his ups and downs, that's fine, he's 11 games into his career.

Strome has been given the 2nd line center spot, to play along Panarin who he produced well with last season. He literally had his worst game this season. Okay, so he made one good play to force a turnover and spring a breakaway. It doesn't mean that he wasn't awful the entire rest of the night. This also does not mean that he hasn't had good games recently, but last night was just so bad overall.

If Chytil does not get hurt, he's centering the 2nd line right now. No question in my mind he moves up the chain based on how he was playing.

Trouba had an ok game. He's good for one blue line blunder per game. But I tried to make a point that everyone makes mistakes every game. I'm not sure why you said Strome was awful or putrid. I think what I mean is all of us can pick one or two major blunders by any player and come to the conclusion that the player was awful, which is what I think happens a lot here. Just now, I watched a stretch of the first period, and can come to the conclusion that Laf was awful. He had a turnover in the neutral zone that led to extended zone pressure by the Isles. Not to mention I remember he made a lazy drop pass (again) in the third, which Pierre actually criticized him for it in a 0-0 game. Laf is becoming good for one lazy drop pass per game.

 

[will1066]

I’m more than fine with Howden as a center on an energy line and PKer and I agree that he’s not one of our serious problems. I just have serious issues with his lack of reliable basic skill. It’s not just that he’s not making fancy plays or something like that, it’s that he can’t accept a pass cleanly or hit a teammate on the tape with his own passes. Stuff like that. Basic stuff that even your 4th liners need to be able to reliably do. With him being in his 3rd NHL season now it’s incredibly frustrating that he can’t do those very basic things reliably.

He's like Bambi the hockey player. But like Bambi, there's a path to adulthood. Eventually.

 

[Off Sides]

Trouba had his first good game two games ago. This game he sucked

Miller, Fox, Lindgren look to be the keepers on D with Trouba due to not be able to remove him.

Hajek other than the bad giveaway I thought looked a little better.


Howden is sort of just there. No idea what he or Bitetto were doing on the 2nd goal against though, don't think they know either.

Gauthier was better, hopefully he can build on it should he stay in the line-up.

PDG has been good, might have been their best forward last night.



Lafreniere with the puck is very quick to try to move it. That drop pass?

Kakko looks like he is taking some steps yet similarly he tries to move the puck at times when he could hold on to try to make a better play.

 

[ArPanet]

Lafreniere had an interesting moment just before the first NBCSN commercial break. He skated towards the benches and actually threw a hit. Then he went down to one knee and just remained there for kind of a longish time. He was still like that as they cut away. I’m wondering if he was gassed or if it hurt a little. Of course maybe it means nothing.

 

[romba]

Trouba loves to chill at the back of the net and use it slow down the oncoming forecheckers. When they make the move to chase him out, he goes out the other way and usually can accelerate fast enough to make a play out of the zone. Rarely does it lead to any offense but it gets the puck out of the zone. The problem is when forecheckers chase him out with speed, he still tries to outpace them hoping they won't catch him but it's not working. If the forechecker is hesitating which way to go and ultimately tries to smoke him out, his play works fine. But when they know exactly what his plan is and therefore don't slow down on their way to chase him out from behind the net, he doesn't sense disaster coming and gets in big trouble right in the low slot.

 

[gravey9]

He's been arguably one of our better players, was on the Rangers most effective line last night, and has generally been a damn solid fourth line center this season.

Would I love for more offense to be there to justify moving him up the third line? Sure.

But Howden has been the least of our problems right now.

Howden playing the 3rd line right now is a problem for the team. On the 4th, ok. But not 3rd. That's not his fault. It's lack of depth and injuries.

Pros: He's usually in the right place. He's responsible. Has decent wheels. Plays the right way.

Cons: Vast majority of offensive plays die on his stick. Despite being older and stronger, he's rarely extending forechecks/cycles. He has the physical tools, but he can't process the game fast enough. Kinda plays hockey like someone who just started playing a new video game.

To me, he's the ideal guy to play against in practice to work on faceoffs and power plays. It's a bit of an exaggeration. But not much. He's basically Marc Staal as a center. Always in the right spot, takes up space, makes the smart play, but rarely the creative one and often treats the puck like a time bomb.

A version of Brett Howden who isn't worried about getting knocked off the puck and isn't afraid to hold on to the puck a few more seconds to make a play is really what we need for a bottom 6 six center that can slide between 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[Dfence033]

I'm not a doom & gloomer about this team so far. Their record both feels better and worse than it should be. Quinn looks lost as to how to coach at this level. The super kids haven't produced on the ice the way any reasonable fan or spectator would have expected. The power play is one of the worst I've ever seen (and I had season tickets to the David Legwand Predators years). Zibanejad looks like the aliens from Space Jam visited him. DeAngelo apparently went full idiot. Chytil got hurt as soon as it looked like he turned the corner. Jack Johnson is a (very Rangers) thing.


But... despite all of that, this team is nearly .500. And I'm not sure if it's overlooked, forgotten about, or just generally people don't understand the implications or importance:

This team has 20% ($16.725M) of the total cap either sent home (DeAngelo), or in buyouts. This team wasn't competing this year with that much dead space. Forget Zib and his $5.5M. That's enough dead space that, if available to be spent, would be enough to get BOTH Barkov AND Eichel without a penny going the other way in a trade.

That's what this team is this year. Add in the COVID suck and a mediocre coach, and anyone expecting greatness was just going to be tremendously let down. Should Zib and the kids be better? Absolutely, and I'll admit being a tad worried about them. But this is the 2021 NYR, with 1/4 of their availabile funds spent paying guys not to be on the team.

 

[Priorae]

Trouba loves to chill at the back of the net and use it slow down the oncoming forecheckers. When they make the move to chase him out, he goes out the other way and usually can accelerate fast enough to make a play out of the zone. Rarely does it lead to any offense but it gets the puck out of the zone. The problem is when forecheckers chase him out with speed, he still tries to outpace them hoping they won't catch him but it's not working. If the forechecker is hesitating which way to go and ultimately tries to smoke him out, his play works fine. But when they know exactly what his plan is and therefore don't slow down on their way to chase him out from behind the net, he doesn't sense disaster coming and gets in big trouble right in the low slot.

Good stuff. This is basically dead on. He's not a fast player and right now his mental processing is just not there. I really don't like him as a player, but he's better than he was last night.

 

[will1066]

Good stuff. This is basically dead on. He's not a fast player and right now his mental processing is just not there. I really don't like him as a player, but he's better than he was last night.

Fox

Trouba

Pierre called Fox a supercomputer last night.

 

[Kovalev27]

The pp isn’t nearly as fast without DeAngelo that’s just the truth

quinn basically said as much today. Didn’t mention DeAngelo but there’s no question he pushes the pace on the pp he’s always moving and moving the puck quickly. Fox is a different kind of player. Just slows it down a lot and when Mika and panarin aren’t getting their shots thru or on the marks it shows

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Is there a rookie you guys were more excited about than Miller? I'm not talking to coming into the season, but watching in the season? Only one I can think of is Fox last year. Otherwise Miller's rookie performance is the best since Hank in 2005-06, Igor was great last year in a tiny sample size.

 

[Priorae]

Is there a rookie you guys were more excited about than Miller? I'm not talking to coming into the season, but watching in the season? Only one I can think of is Fox last year. Otherwise Miller's rookie performance is the best since Hank in 2005-06, Igor was great last year in a tiny sample size.

Turcotte. I thought he's be the first line center to finally win us that cup.

 

[will1066]

quinn basically said as much today. Didn’t mention DeAngelo but there’s no question he pushes the pace on the pp he’s always moving and moving the puck quickly. Fox is a different kind of player. Just slows it down a lot and when Mika and panarin aren’t getting their shots thru or on the marks it shows

DeAngelo's mobile style gets the power play to rotate. And speculating, I think Fox, mentally, plays like he doesn't own the power play, which as the QB, he should. He feeds the others, for sure, but does he really *run* things? Directs what the unit of five should do? As Doc used to say, comes up with the conception of a play?