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1,100 career points for Anze Kopitar — and they all came with the LAKings!

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bland said:
And because he is a better defensive center.

No shame in Anze being ranked behind the best defensive center of his generation. Hell of a player, but why obsess on if he is considered "the best" when he really isn't?
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I agree. There was at least one season where Kopi didn’t get the Selke when he should have IMO. I also think peak Kopitar was the slightly better player, but Bergeron was slightly more consistent IMO so just shades it. They are without a doubt two of the games greatest ever 2-way forwards though, I struggle to put many ahead of them. There’s a case for 1-2, especially with the clamp down on defensive tactics and rules favouring forwards.
 
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bland said:
And because he is a better defensive center.

No shame in Anze being ranked behind the best defensive center of his generation. Hell of a player, but why obsess on if he is considered "the best" when he really isn't?
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But is he the better defender? Are we looking at yearly defensive metrics? Are we including their line mates? Or are we going by Selke wins?

I keep hearing Bergeron is the best but how can that be when the Kopitar was the better defender in 3 of his 5 Selke winning seasons?
 
The Selke never really goes to the best defensive forward.

It goes to the best 2-way center.

It's not supposed to be like that, but we all know it is.
 
kings11 said:
But is he the better defender? Are we looking at yearly defensive metrics? Are we including their line mates? Or are we going by Selke wins?

I keep hearing Bergeron is the best but how can that be when the Kopitar was the better defender in 3 of his 5 Selke winning seasons?
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Because you look at stats, accuse the media of an East Coast bias yet apparently don't watch the East Coast games yourself and want to come up with excuses for why your guy doesn't get more recognition?

Aaron Rodgers isn't any less of a Hall of Famer because Tom Brady was the better quarterback.

kingsholygrail said:
This season?
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Anze played some of the worst hockey of his career over the first two months of the season - are we forgetting that?
 
bland said:
Because you look at stats, accuse the media of an East Coast bias yet apparently don't watch the East Coast games yourself and want to come up with excuses for why your guy doesn't get more recognition?

Aaron Rodgers isn't any less of a Hall of Famer because Tom Brady was the better quarterback.


Anze played some of the worst hockey of his career over the first two months of the season - are we forgetting that?
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Since Kopitar was handicapped by the worst play of his career for two whole months, he managed to play more minutes, score more points, and still had a respectable 55.9 FO%. I think Kopitar has a compelling argument over Bergeron this year.
 
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bland said:
Because you look at stats, accuse the media of an East Coast bias yet apparently don't watch the East Coast games yourself and want to come up with excuses for why your guy doesn't get more recognition?

Aaron Rodgers isn't any less of a Hall of Famer because Tom Brady was the better quarterback.


Anze played some of the worst hockey of his career over the first two months of the season - are we forgetting that?
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That answers absolutely nothing, I asked a simple question and you mention the bias, which newsflash bland… it’s a real thing!
That said, I’ve watched plenty of Bergeron and he is absolutely one of the best defensive forwards of his generation. However, what class of line mates has he had? I’m saying without a doubt that Kopitar has been a defensive marvel despite having been surrounded by much worse wingers and being on far worse teams for a longer period of time. Granted all of my opinions much like yours are debatable, your reply was lazy and pretty shitty.
 
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johnjm22 said:
If any fan is upset about Kopitar not getting an award, it shouldn't be the Selke(s). It should be the MVP in 2018.

Maybe he didn't deserve it, but he surely was more deserving than Taylor Hall IMO.
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That will always annoy me, especially considering that the argument for Hall is always "he dragged a non-playoff team into the playoffs" which is exactly what Kopi did but Kopi was also way more important defensively to the Kings than Hall was to the Devils.
 
Scottkmlps said:
I don't give a shit what anyone says, the east coast bias for the Selke is definitely a thing. For him to have only won it twice in his career is criminal.
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East coast bias is a thing for everything. I’m a 30 year kings fan and have found it nearly impossible to watch complete kings games this year having moved to Connecticut last June. Average media bozo doesn’t even finish the 1st period of a Pacific division team.

Edit: not saying Kopitar deserves anything one way or the other, just that east coast bias is very real.
 
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bland said:
And because he is a better defensive center.

No shame in Anze being ranked behind the best defensive center of his generation. Hell of a player, but why obsess on if he is considered "the best" when he really isn't?
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For me personally I'm less mad that he hasn't been winning it and more that voters forget about him altogether UNLESS he wins it

Dude should be swimming in 2nd-4th place finishes but THAT is what shows me how f***ing lazy the voters are

Look how much they overreacted to Drew for Norris votes, too. It's like all or nothing for these guys. They're one-market experts by and large and if that market is west of the Missisippi your guy is f***ed unless he's the winner from the previous season carrying over into this one.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
For me personally I'm less mad that he hasn't been winning it and more that voters forget about him altogether UNLESS he wins it

Dude should be swimming in 2nd-4th place finishes but THAT is what shows me how f***ing lazy the voters are

Look how much they overreacted to Drew for Norris votes, too. It's like all or nothing for these guys. They're one-market experts by and large and if that market is west of the Missisippi your guy is f***ed unless he's the winner from the previous season carrying over into this one.
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Honestly, it doesn't diminish his incredible career or his Hall of Fame credentials. Stats, trophies, recognition, just the stuff we obsess about as fans. Every single player who ever lined up with or against him knows his value.

I have been VERY critical of Anze over the years for what he isn't, but have always thoroughly respected and admired what he does.
 
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On November 8th 2023, Kopitar recorded 2 points against the Vegas Golden Knights, including his 400th goal, bringing his career point total to 1154 and passing Michel Goulet for 57th all time.

Next up Daniel Alfredsson.

55. Bobby Hull 1170
56. Daniel Alfredsson 1157
57. Anze Kopitar 1154
58. Michel Goulet 1153
59. Nicklas Lidström 1142
 
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I trust what the players and coaches say on both things. (Kopitar and Bergeron)

I couldn't listen to Faust and Fox anymore the last few years so almost exclusively watched the road broadcast and when they interview the opposing coaches or players, or have an analyst (who was usually a player) they always talk so glowingly about Kopitar, how underrated he is, how he is one of the best two-way players of all-time etc.

But it's basically universally accepted that Bergeron is at another level defensively, and that he probably should have just won the Selke every year from 2005 onwards. I've just heard to many players and coaches say it in interviews how he is at a level by himself, you just have to take these guys for their word. And with the Selke, I'm pretty sure many of the PHWA writers just go off of what they are told in their discussions with coaches, players, managers etc. But I also do appreciate that the player who was probably the 2nd best defensive forward for that entire era was awarded with a couple of Selke's. Bergeron didn't need to win it every year to cement his legacy as the best defensive forward of all-time, but Kopitar having two of them really does help cement his HOF resume.

I think most of the time the PHWA got it right with the Selke, the one I didn't really agree with was Toews winning it. Toews was a good defensive center, but living in Chicago at the time and also following the Kings closely, Kopitar was doing a lot more heavy defensive work than Toews ever did, I think that was another instance where the Toews hype train got a little out of control. Kopitar to me was always a better player (especially defensively) than Toews was.
 
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Herby said:
I trust what the players and coaches say on both things. (Kopitar and Bergeron)

I couldn't listen to Faust and Fox anymore the last few years so almost exclusively watched the road broadcast and when they interview the opposing coaches or players, or have an analyst (who was usually a player) they always talk so glowingly about Kopitar, how underrated he is, how he is one of the best two-way players of all-time etc.

But it's basically universally accepted that Bergeron is at another level defensively, and that he probably should have just won the Selke every year from 2005 onwards. I've just heard to many players and coaches say it in interviews how he is at a level by himself, you just have to take these guys for their word. And with the Selke, I'm pretty sure many of the PHWA writers just go off of what they are told in their discussions with coaches, players, managers etc. But I also do appreciate that the player who was probably the 2nd best defensive forward for that entire era was awarded with a couple of Selke's. Bergeron didn't need to win it every year to cement his legacy as the best defensive forward of all-time, but Kopitar having two of them really does help cement his HOF resume.

I think most of the time the PHWA got it right with the Selke, the one I didn't really agree with was Toews winning it. Toews was a good defensive center, but living in Chicago at the time and also following the Kings closely, Kopitar was doing a lot more heavy defensive work than Toews ever did, I think that was another instance where the Toews hype train got a little out of control. Kopitar to me was always a better player (especially defensively) than Toews was.
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100% agreed on Bergeron's defensive play.

I think where they get it wrong is that they rate PB as a much better player too. Kopitar's offense without having Marchand, Pastrnak, and others flanking him and leading the team in scoring often by huge margins for 90% of his career shows just how dominant he was. Honestly if you consider Crosby's health, Kopitar's career is right up there with his draftmate for results.

The thing that gets me with the Selke/Norris and others is that Kopitar and Drew basically had to be a finalist or they wouldn't get votes at all; to me that's the biggest issue with the wrong-coast viewings. Both guys should have had a number of higher finishes in the voting even if they didn't outright win.
 
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johnjm22 said:
On November 8th 2023, Kopitar recorded 2 points against the Vegas Golden Knights, including his 400th goal, bringing his career point total to 1154 and passing Michel Goulet for 57th all time.

Next up Daniel Alfredsson.

55. Bobby Hull 1170
56. Daniel Alfredsson 1157
57. Anze Kopitar 1154
58. Michel Goulet 1153
59. Nicklas Lidström 1142
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man lidstrom was sooo good
 
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On November 20th 2023, Kopitar recorded 1 point against the Arizona Coyotes bringing his career point total to 1158 passing Daniel Alfredsson for 56th all time.

Next up Bobby Hull

54. Sergei Fedorov 1179
55. Bobby Hull 1170
56. Anze Kopitar 1158
57. Daniel Alfredsson 1157
58. Michel Goulet 1153
 
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johnjm22 said:
On November 20th 2023, Kopitar recorded 1 point against the Arizona Coyotes bringing his career point total to 1158 passing Daniel Alfredsson for 56th all time.

Next up Bobby Hull

54. Sergei Fedorov 1179
55. Bobby Hull 1170
56. Anze Kopitar 1158
57. Daniel Alfredsson 1157
58. Michel Goulet 1153
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pretty crazy
 
johnjm22 said:
He's actually 31st all time in adjusted points:

www.hockey-reference.com

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Points | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Wayne Gretzky (2475), 2. Gordie Howe (2190), 3. Jaromír Jágr (2080), 4. Sidney Crosby (1834), 5. Alex Ovechkin (1763), 6. Mark Messier (1732), 7. Ron Francis (1711), 8. Joe Thornton (1692), 9. Joe Sakic (1679), 10. Steve Yzerman (1650)
www.hockey-reference.com www.hockey-reference.com
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Ron Francis sure does not get enough credit due to playing in the same period as some pretty big stars
 
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