Game Analysis: #1 - 10/3/13 | New York Rangers @ Phoenix Coyotes Analysis

[beastly115]

Longing for Torts? No. Thinking that the issues might not have been solely a coaching issue? Yes.

Wait, people actually thought changing the coach would fix everything? rofl.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

If you are of the belief that neither of those goals would have swung the momentum back our way. Considering it would have been 2-1 had we scored. But it is what it is, not making excuses just saying things could have been different and that they got some decent chances.

Not going to argue about it.

They tied it up (on a power play goal no less) and there was no noticeable momentum swing. They fell behind four minutes later.

 

[eco's bones]

I hope Cally and Hags get back soon and make a difference. They're our two best forecheckers, sparkplugs, and both very physical players.

Last night was bad. Really bad. It's a long season, and I expect growing pains, but I think the identity of the team is completely gone. What are we?

Are we an offensive team? God I hope not, we don't have the shooters for it.

Are we a defensive rock? It didn't look like it. We have the personnel, but the system we're seeing is miserable defensively.

Are we a tough 'em out team? Well, obviously not.

We used to be the blue collar blueshirts. Wear em down, out-work, out-battle, want it more, prepare harder. It's the best thing we had going for us. Then the trades started. And they kept going. The expectations changed, the culture changed, the coaching changed.

Maybe it'll be better with our two hardest working forwards, but, and it's a bad cliche, but we need our top guys to be our top guys. I'm already sick of Nash. He ended up making a good pass for our only goal, but my god was he disengaged last night. I watched other games, and saw other teams #1 guys go out and make a difference. I watched Nash try to rack up some highlights like a 12 year old who discovered one-touch dekes.

I'm one of the most optimistic on this board, but I'm very unsettled by this.

Sorry Hagelin is an excellent forechecker--great at pressuring the puck--very good defensively with a nifty skill set but he is not a very physical player.

 

[Callagraves]

Sorry Hagelin is an excellent forechecker--great at pressuring the puck--very good defensively with a nifty skill set but he is not a very physical player.

He doesn't throw massive hits, but he's a physical player. Watch him on the boards, he's a pain in the ass to play against, mostly because he's ALWAYS on the boards, making a mess of the defense. He's not going to crush anyone (well, except for Alfie....), but he makes the entire team a bit different with his forechecking.

 

[haveandare]

I hope Cally and Hags get back soon and make a difference. They're our two best forecheckers, sparkplugs, and both very physical players.

Last night was bad. Really bad. It's a long season, and I expect growing pains, but I think the identity of the team is completely gone. What are we?

Are we an offensive team? God I hope not, we don't have the shooters for it.

Are we a defensive rock? It didn't look like it. We have the personnel, but the system we're seeing is miserable defensively.

Are we a tough 'em out team? Well, obviously not.

We used to be the blue collar blueshirts. Wear em down, out-work, out-battle, want it more, prepare harder. It's the best thing we had going for us. Then the trades started. And they kept going. The expectations changed, the culture changed, the coaching changed.

Maybe it'll be better with our two hardest working forwards, but, and it's a bad cliche, but we need our top guys to be our top guys. I'm already sick of Nash. He ended up making a good pass for our only goal, but my god was he disengaged last night. I watched other games, and saw other teams #1 guys go out and make a difference. I watched Nash try to rack up some highlights like a 12 year old who discovered one-touch dekes.

I'm one of the most optimistic on this board, but I'm very unsettled by this.

Not that last night's game looked good, but do any really solid teams fit into a box like that? Any team worth anything has a more complex identity. The Bruins, for example, are tough as hell, great on D and pretty deep on offense. I saw a lot of things that worried me last night, but not being able to point to team and say they're obviously an offensive, defensive, or tough team wasn't one of them.

I think they got about as far as toughness and solid D can take them two years ago. They need to play a more complex, complete game.

 

[Synergy27]

Not that last night's game looked good, but do any really solid teams fit into a box like that? Any team worth anything has a more complex identity. The Bruins, for example, are tough as hell, great on D and pretty deep on offense. I saw a lot of things that worried me last night, but not being able to point to team and say they're obviously an offensive, defensive, or tough team wasn't one of them.

I think they got about as far as toughness and solid D can take them two years ago. They need to play a more complex, complete game.

Perfectly said. And for Torts detractors like myself, the thought/hope is that a new coach could facilitate exactly that.

 

[Callagraves]

Not that last night's game looked good, but do any really solid teams fit into a box like that? Any team worth anything has a more complex identity. The Bruins, for example, are tough as hell, great on D and pretty deep on offense. I saw a lot of things that worried me last night, but not being able to point to team and say they're obviously an offensive, defensive, or tough team wasn't one of them.

I think they got about as far as toughness and solid D can take them two years ago. They need to play a more complex, complete game.

I agree that a team doesn't need to fit into some pidgeonholed identity complex, and that to succeed, a team should be at least competent in all of those things, but if you look at some of the most respected teams, they all have at least one outstanding aspect.

You mentioned the Bruins, which is perfect. Deep on offense, backstopped by some great defense, but you know when you're playing the Bruins, they will hit you. There will be some rough play along the boards, and you can expect to get slammed.

Blackhawks! May not be a more well rounded team around. They'll hit you plenty, they defend very well, but they bring some offensive fire power that is near impossible to stop. On the rush, from the point, down low, they'll score any which way.

You can do it with the Kings, 'Nucks, Pens. There's always some SERIOUS threat to your team.

What do we have? Stellar goaltending, dysfunctional offense, one of the best defensive six in the league that don't appear to remember how to defend, and a STARTLING lack of physicality.

It used to be we were the hardest working team in the league, and defended like it was nobody's business. We sacrificed those for more scoring, and now we're not too good at anything.

I guess "Clean Slate" referred to the entire team afterall. Starting from Zero.

 

[stan the caddy]

I agree that a team doesn't need to fit into some pidgeonholed identity complex, and that to succeed, a team should be at least competent in all of those things, but if you look at some of the most respected teams, they all have at least one outstanding aspect.

You mentioned the Bruins, which is perfect. Deep on offense, backstopped by some great defense, but you know when you're playing the Bruins, they will hit you. There will be some rough play along the boards, and you can expect to get slammed.

Blackhawks! May not be a more well rounded team around. They'll hit you plenty, they defend very well, but they bring some offensive fire power that is near impossible to stop. On the rush, from the point, down low, they'll score any which way.

You can do it with the Kings, 'Nucks, Pens. There's always some SERIOUS threat to your team.

What do we have? Stellar goaltending, dysfunctional offense, one of the best defensive six in the league that don't appear to remember how to defend, and a STARTLING lack of physicality.

It used to be we were the hardest working team in the league, and defended like it was nobody's business. We sacrificed those for more scoring, and now we're not too good at anything.

I guess "Clean Slate" referred to the entire team afterall. Starting from Zero.

That's the hardest thing to stomach. People might not find Tort's system entertaining to watch but it's really how this team was built to play. We have a bunch of fast forecheckers and almost everyone is willing to sacrafice their body. This isn't a skilled team but they used to do the little things right that resulted in success.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

That's the hardest thing to stomach. People might not find Tort's system entertaining to watch but it's really how this team was built to play. We have a bunch of fast forecheckers and almost everyone is willing to sacrafice their body. This isn't a skilled team but they used to do the little things right that resulted in success.

It was game one. Saying thye USED to do the little things is such an overreaction.

Let's give them some time and see what happens.

People are acting like this isn't a hardworking team and that we're destined for a spot outside the playoffs.

Keep in mind, we played a good team, in their home opener, at a start time fo 10PM EST, with two of our top 6 forwards injured.

There's 81 games left. They are trying a new system. There were a lot of positives to take from last nights game. The transition was much much faster.

AV teams are notoriously slow starters.

 

[94now]

Learning is not the right word. 'Adapting' to a system, while top line players are out, during a heavy road trip start to the season, you might not be running on all cylinders right off the bat.

AS far as intensity goes, I didn't really have a problem with one on one battles. Long shifts contributed to a few goals, so yeah, when guys are tired it looks like the intensity was low.

Intensity differs depending of playing system. Puck possession teams such as DET or even Renney's Rangers do not project as an intense group.. Sure, if you Torts and you strive on getting the puck from opponent , if almost every scoring chance must be initiated from forechecking, then you have to be intense.

 

[eco's bones]

He doesn't throw massive hits, but he's a physical player. Watch him on the boards, he's a pain in the ass to play against, mostly because he's ALWAYS on the boards, making a mess of the defense. He's not going to crush anyone (well, except for Alfie....), but he makes the entire team a bit different with his forechecking.

We have much different definitions of physical players. Hagelin is not a particularly strong player or much of a hitter. He pressures defenses with his skating. He's even good in the corners but again it's his skating more than anything else. He's so shifty and great at reversals. He could teach about 90% of the rest of the league a thing or two. He's not good going to the front of the net--has not shown enough size or strength to stand his ground there. He's okay for timing plays--good in the corners--otherwise he's more of a perimeter player. Actually one of the best perimeter wingers in the NHL.

 

[Vidic15*]

They have to get used to AV's man on man defensive coverage. It's a big transition from a zone, collapse defense. I didn't see them communicating enough with each other on who to cover who. Just a lot of puck watching.

 

[stan the caddy]

It was game one. Saying thye USED to do the little things is such an overreaction.

Let's give them some time and see what happens.

People are acting like this isn't a hardworking team and that we're destined for a spot outside the playoffs.

Keep in mind, we played a good team, in their home opener, at a start time fo 10PM EST, with two of our top 6 forwards injured.

There's 81 games left. They are trying a new system. There were a lot of positives to take from last nights game. The transition was much much faster.

AV teams are notoriously slow starters.

It's harder to do the little things right with AV's system. More responsibility for the dmen and the forwards need more skill to play mistake free hockey in the neutral zone.

You're right, it's only game one but they really didn't have any good shifts where they held it in Pheonix's zone. That's really bad regardless of the system.

With the addition of Detroit and Columbus this probably is a bubble team. It's gonna be tough to make the playoffs if they dig themselves a hole in on the West Coast.

 

[Thesensation19*]

I look back at the game and wonder how we didnt score more.

But I also look at one small thing that killed us and since AV took over its been what I hope isnt a habit. Marking the man in the slot. WHYYYYY. So simple. Old hockey would consider you weak if you couldnt do such a thing.

Pre-season and counting... its been like 80% of the goals. Were making Hank work too hard and were leaving him him our to dry.

Look at Mike Smith last night. Must have loved most of it due to how easy our shots were on target. I will give it some time to further judge but yesterdays game is different if we cover those aspects.


Easiest hattrick you can give a player.

One last thing. I liked how we seemed to have a gameplan against Mike Smith and Phoenix. Dump and chase. AV was qouted on saying Smith was the best puck handling goalie today. Well, it looks like he took note and he forced it at his hand. I always liked how Fred Shero would throw the puck into Bobby Orrs corner and it worked to their advantage. Same idea. So i like that it seems like hes doing his HW.

We just got to come together as a team. Maybe roster is our issue. Too much of our D not ready to put a body on someone and play man- to man. Too many poke checks.

 

[Callagraves]

It was game one. Saying thye USED to do the little things is such an overreaction.

Let's give them some time and see what happens.

People are acting like this isn't a hardworking team and that we're destined for a spot outside the playoffs.

Keep in mind, we played a good team, in their home opener, at a start time fo 10PM EST, with two of our top 6 forwards injured.

There's 81 games left. They are trying a new system. There were a lot of positives to take from last nights game. The transition was much much faster.

AV teams are notoriously slow starters.

I don't think this team has played the same since we shipped of Dubi, Artie, and Prust, personally. We gutted our bottom six, and 2/3s of our top 3 forgot how to hockey, and it was awful

Team never recovered. We haven't played the balls to the wall crash the net style in nearly 2 years.

What makes it worse is, I don't have faith in this new system. I think Torts was awful last year, and if they gave him a chance he would have modified a proven playing style to better suit the team. Now we're starting from near scratch.


I don't want to blame it all on the Nash trade, because when he decides to give a damn he's a joy to watch in a Rangers jersey, but....damn. The longer it goes, the more it looks like Slats blew up a winning team to chase the shiny object.

 

[Callagraves]

We have much different definitions of physical players. Hagelin is not a particularly strong player or much of a hitter. He pressures defenses with his skating. He's even good in the corners but again it's his skating more than anything else. He's so shifty and great at reversals. He could teach about 90% of the rest of the league a thing or two. He's not good going to the front of the net--has not shown enough size or strength to stand his ground there. He's okay for timing plays--good in the corners--otherwise he's more of a perimeter player. Actually one of the best perimeter wingers in the NHL.

Fair enough. I give him the physical moniker because of his presence on the boards and ability to shield the puck with his body, but I think we see him the same way.

 

[bobbop]

Did anyone happen to record pregame show? If so please PM me.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

It's harder to do the little things right with AV's system. More responsibility for the dmen and the forwards need more skill to play mistake free hockey in the neutral zone.

You're right, it's only game one but they really didn't have any good shifts where they held it in Pheonix's zone. That's really bad regardless of the system.

With the addition of Detroit and Columbus this probably is a bubble team. It's gonna be tough to make the playoffs if they dig themselves a hole in on the West Coast.

I thought the team carried the play for the first, after they went down. Phoenix had like one shot after they scored there goal. They went something like ten minutes without a shot on goal. We also controlled a lot of the play in the second. The third was an atrocity.

To say they didn't have any good shifts though is something I can't agree with. It was a sloppy game, with certainly quite a few areas of concern, but i though there were certainly spurts where the team looked good.

You have to remember, as does everyone else, we're missing 2 top 6 forwards and arguably our best player, Stepan, missed all of the pre-season. He looked god awful last night.

 

[Doctyl]

why do people think that if we had a massively overpaid dubi and an underrated arty we would be a contender again?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't think this team has played the same since we shipped of Dubi, Artie, and Prust, personally. We gutted our bottom six, and 2/3s of our top 3 forgot how to hockey, and it was awful

Team never recovered. We haven't played the balls to the wall crash the net style in nearly 2 years.

What makes it worse is, I don't have faith in this new system. I think Torts was awful last year, and if they gave him a chance he would have modified a proven playing style to better suit the team. Now we're starting from near scratch.


I don't want to blame it all on the Nash trade, because when he decides to give a damn he's a joy to watch in a Rangers jersey, but....damn. The longer it goes, the more it looks like Slats blew up a winning team to chase the shiny object.

2/3 of our top 3 forgot to play hockey yet you think we're in this predicament because we got rid a few depth players are you ****ing kidding me?

 

[eco's bones]

Fair enough. I give him the physical moniker because of his presence on the boards and ability to shield the puck with his body, but I think we see him the same way.

To me Hagelin has kind of a crazy gear to his skating. Between going forwards, backwards and laterally--it's almost like they're all integrated for him and he's not really switching from one to the other. He's also super fast.

 

[frankthefrowner]

The only thing i thought about last night was that Brian Boyle got way to much ES time. The EA Sports line Of Richards Stepan Nash is dumb... Stepan looked lost drop him down to the 3rd line and let him get his head on straight. He missed all of training camp and the pre season no reason to expose him like that.

As far as the Defense they look like a team caught in the middle of being trained to block the shot and now AV telling them to play the man. It's gonna take time to break them of that.

They could head to the garden without a win... its possible.

 

[Callagraves]

2/3 of our top 3 forgot to play hockey yet you think we're in this predicament because we got rid a few depth players are you ****ing kidding me?

Take it easy snowblind.

We traded away Dubi and Artie, let Prust, Feds and Mitchell walk.

Dubinsky is a very, very missed presence, Artie was terribly underrated here, Prust, well, I love Prusty. I don't know if we could pay him what he wanted, but I'd have considered it. John Mitchell went out and proved us all wrong, and has been playing solid hockey since.

We did next to nothing to replace the depth until we traded away Gabby. Our top guys malfunctioned, and there was ZERO depth for us to fall back on. Zero secondary scoring.

We've tried to fill the gap, but, it just doesn't seem to fit too well, does it? This feels like two teams shoved together, with a brand new coach thrown in. Maybe they'll click in the coming weeks, but, it's tough not to think we'd be looking better if we'd stayed with the homegrown movement.

 

[Callagraves]

why do people think that if we had a massively overpaid dubi and an underrated arty we would be a contender again?

Those are just two of the players that contributed. They're the two biggest that we lost, but we let go of nearly half of our forwards several months after our most successful season in a decade, which was done in spite of several key injuries

It's tough to say if that was a good decision or not.

 

[Cake or Death]

Looks like a team trying to learn a new system while being on the road. Moments of brilliance and plenty of gaffs to go along with it. That's before you even consider the fact that they're missing two of their better wingers. Awfully difficult to make projections about this team given the circumstances.

Agreed. It's also worth noting we played a team who does know their system, and they have one of the best coaches in the league. From what I saw, it was sloppy, but I like the direction things seem to be going, though it will be a little time before we know exactly what that direction looks like. But I'm okay with the loss: it's one game and this adjustment isn't going to be an over night process.