Value of: Zucc/Brassard/Klein
- Thread starter UAGoalieGuy
- Start date
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Brassard to Nashville for Jarnkrok, a good young almost NHL ready prospect (Fiala/Kamenev/Doughtery) and a 2nd
Klein to Edmonton for any combo of Bear, Khaira, Yakimov or Slepyshev
McDonagh to Winnipeg for any combo of Ehlers, Copp, Lowry, Petan and Comrie (scared to ask for Connor and Laine is obviously off limits)
Klein to Edmonton for any combo of Bear, Khaira, Yakimov or Slepyshev
McDonagh to Winnipeg for any combo of Ehlers, Copp, Lowry, Petan and Comrie (scared to ask for Connor and Laine is obviously off limits)
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CHGoalie27
Don't blame the goalie!
go4hockey
Registered User
Then you sit back and watch the team get older and worse year by year and not much in your system cause your GM trades all his high picks and many of their prospects. Yep your right.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Agreed. This core is too mediocre to accomplish one of the two things we need most: win a Cup or draft in the top 3, where all the franchise changing talent is. Every legit contenders best players are top 3 talents. As a playoff team all but one season since the first lockout, we've never had a chance to draft those kind of players.
Within 3 years we'll be the worst team in the Metro, but until then this will be a huge waste of time while our prime assets depreciate further.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
This. Rangers could get very good returns for Zucc, Brassard and Klein. Add those young pieces to a surviving young core of Stepan, Kreider, McD, Millsr, Hayes, Buch and Skjei and the Rangers could be in a position for another kick at the can before Lundqvist calls it quits.
Hopefully the Rangers can add Vesey as well.
While you're right that NYR have been too good to draft in the top 10, let alone top 5, or top 3, and not good enough to win a Cup, saying things like this just negates your entire post and makes you look foolish.
So much changes over the course of 3 years, you have no basis to make a claim in either direction.
Nobody knows which teams will be good or bad in 3 years. Everything could change twice over between now and then.
I'm just sick of these huge, sweeping generalizations with zero basis in reality. Because while I understand the sentiment and urgency you're trying to evoke, it's just too baseless a claim to make.
What if Lundqvist misses 82 games this season with an injury and the NYR finish last in the league and win the lottery?
We have no idea what's going to happen in 3 years.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
I can confidently say this roster as currently constructed will be the worst team in the Metro if not the East very shortly. Not this season, but It's pretty obvious were on a serious downswing. For one Lundqvist is no longer the best goalie in the league as he has been for the past 5-8 years. Holtby, Bishop, Crawford, Schneider among a few others have all surpassed him. He's only going to get worse with each passing year, the older he gets. We already saw it this past season, it was the least-Lundqvist season we've ever seen. Maybe his stats don't indicate it but the eye test does.
And the entire roster is flawed if we're banking on Lundqvist and Lundqvist alone to carry us to the promised land, considering what we just saw with Murray/Jones/Vasilevskiy.
Look at the teams around us. Washington and Pittsburgh are elite teams and will be for the foreseeable future. The Islanders and Flyers have elite pieces in place (better than anything we have) AND are stacked for the future. The Hurricanes are on the rise, CBJ should be to if Torts doesn't screw it all up. The Devils will probably be better than us this season as well. Schneider is better than Lundqvist, they'll have 3 30 goal scorers on their roster with some good young players on the up and come (Zacha/Severson/Boucher/Blandisi). Oh and they have probably the best young coach in all of hockey.
Now in the Atlantic, Florida and Tampa are in the elite tier and should be Cup contenders for the next half decade, at least. Buffalo's near future looks great, Montreal should be back in the playoffs if Price can stay healthy, and the Leafs with all their young exciting talent should be making some noise in the near future. Ottawa is always a threat to make the playoffs and at least have some good prospects and their core is relatively young.
That leaves us, the Bruins and Red Wings. 3 teams with older cores that had a good run, except they at least have a decent prospect pool. We have the worst prospect pool in all of hockey.
Sure, I don't have a crystal ball. I'm just putting two and two together here, though.
It would take a by-God miracle for us to win the Cup. But we're Rangers fans, we used our one miracle-per 54 years up already.
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Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
- 13,676
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Fans don't want to trade their team's top prospects because they are always overrated. Anyone who has a 50-50 chance of being a second liner is viewed as a guaranteed first liner. Nobody will let trade their half-decent prospects for Zuccarello because why give up a 20 year old who's about to be a first liner for a 29 year old first liner. Nevermind that most likely the 20-year-old will most likely turn into a third liner. Saying that is hate speech.
smoneil
Registered User
Get the eyes tested. Lundqvist was left out to dry last season worse than any other season before. AV's idiotic system had Lundqvist facing an absurd number of high quality shots every single game. Someone else ran the fancy-stats. It took a herculean effort on Lundqvist's part just to drag this team into the playoffs.
The breakdowns were regular and were not only occurring during Staal/Girardi shifts. It was systemic, not personnel.
Two things here--
1- People have been calling for the Isles and several other teams to be dominant any season now for nearly a decade. Having top prospects and developing those prospects are two very different things.
2- Comic book fan? Your "crystal ball/predict the obvious" line was eerily reminiscent of Cable's early New Mutants/X-Force appearances.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Yeah AV is another reason why I'm very down on the Rangers moving forward. He put our entire roster in a huge position to fail.
It's no coincidence nearly every established player we have had the worst season of their careers, or regressed hard. AND we had our worst playoff showing since 2006.
A much simpler, less radical solution would be to fire AV instead of blowing it up. Bring in a guy who can get the most out of his players instead of the least.
A guy that is being hyped up by the media as the next Hynes/Cooper is Travis Green. He'd be my top choice to replace AV.
Despite how poor our defensive play was this season, Lundqvist has played in front of far crappier teams with far crappier defenses and had relative success.
A change is needed. We can't go into the roster with this stale, mediocre roster. I'm not sure if any of the young guys are NHL ready outside Buch (and who knows how he'll look) and Jensen.
CHGoalie27
Don't blame the goalie!
Worse by keeping the guys I mentioned? All under 30, except Klein. These guys aren't the problem, there were a bunch of additions they couldve made but didn't.
If you're* trying to make me sound ignorant, don't start by suggesting we rid the small pile of guys we have that ARE worth a ****.
Really.
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Sens Vader
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2016
- 7,496
- 5,334
I thought we were gonna see big changes to the Rangers this off season, is that still the same speculation NYR fans are hearing?
go4hockey
Registered User
This is a bunch of hog wash. Teams trade young prospects for proven players every year. You just need to find the teams that feel they are close to being able to make deep playoff runs and often those teams will move you do talent for vet talent. If you wait till the guys who are now late 20's to early 30's to be mid to late 30's then the value goes down. The reload/rebuild needs to be done in the next year or two or the nyr will be at a point to where a full rebuild is needed.
DitClapper
Registered User
- May 15, 2014
- 7,896
- 348
The Bruins would be interested in Klein for something around both Seth Grffith and Colin Miller or Joe Morrow.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
I could see the Ducks being (reluctantly) willing to part with Brandon Montour in a package for Brassard.
NYR Viper
Registered User
The Rangers could use a player like Miller on their back end. They have a glut of defensive d-men. Adding a dynamo from the back end who needs to round out his rough spots would be okay. I'd be game for something like that
Made Dan
Registered User
I've resigned myself to this line of thinking for the the time being, at least as it pertains to the forward corps. Shouldn't prohibit a Klein trade however.
Chrissy, I like what I'm seeing.
How highly is Frankie Vatrano regarded by the fanbase? He's a guy I'd love the Rangers to target, even more so than the guys you offered. But I would definitely be open to something like Miller + Griffith for Klein.
I agree. Griffith isn't a bad piece either but Miller would be the main attraction.
Would definitely be interested in this. Make it bigger, Glass for Garbutt
.Why do you think the Ducks would target Brassard though? You think he'd play over Kesler? He should, but his contract makes it tricky. Wouldn't a winger (like Zuccarello) be a better target for the Ducks?
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Burt Reynolds
Registered User
I've resigned myself to this line of thinking for the the time being, at least as it pertains to the forward corps. Shouldn't prohibit a Klein trade however.
Chrissy, I like what I'm seeing.
How highly is Frankie Vatrano regarded by the fanbase? He's a guy I'd love the Rangers to target, even more so than the guys you offered. But I would definitely be open to something like Miller + Griffith for Klein.
I agree. Griffith isn't a bad piece either but Miller would be the main attraction.
Would definitely be interested in this. Make it bigger, Glass for Garbutt
Why do you think the Ducks would target Brassard though? You think he'd play over Kesler? He should, but his contract makes it tricky. Wouldn't a winger (like Zuccarello) be a better target for the Ducks?
Griffith and C. Miller are both available for an upgrade to our D Corp. However Vatrano is IMO close to untouchable. Obviously he'd be a big piece in a McDonagh type trade, but not in a Klein deal.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
The goal would be to spread our talent across three strong lines. The Ducks had some success to that effect when they split up Getzlaf and Perry, it created quite a few matchup issues with those two and Kesler playing on three separate lines. The issue is having enough talent to play with all of them under our budget, which is why Brassard and his low salary are so attractive.
He wouldn't necessarily be brought in to play "ahead" of anyone. Kesler plays a very vital role with his line (Cogliano/Silfverberg) taking on all the toughest matchups while producing secondary offense. This would free up Getzlaf and Brassard a pair of balanced scoring lines, giving us a deep and dangerous top 9.
Trade Fowler for a young top 9 forward + futures, and spin some futures for Brassard.
Rakell - Getzlaf - Fowler trade
Ritchie - Brassard - Perry
Cogliano - Kesler - Silfverberg
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
BPD
Registered User
We can't be both mediocre and the worst. That said, you aren't wrong to point out that the Rangers - as constructed - are being rapidly surpassed.
So here's the thing: if we're going to be the worst team in the East and we're in need of a restock....what's our incentive to move anything right now? The only piece even worth moving at this exact moment is Henrik - because Henrik with 25% retained doesn't hurt a rebuild, and should bring in a kings ransom (forgive my pun) - or at least a pair of higher end prospects/picks.
Every piece we'd be "willing" to move actually increases in value over the year - specifically Rick Nash. Nash at 6m for 1.5 years is a positively delightful snag for almost any playoff team. 3 years of Marc Staal...eh, could do worse. Girardi - well, his buyout is smaller if we wait, and let's get real on this one....he probably helps the "No Win for Nolan" campaign (trademark).
It also forces some tough questions: frankly, what is a 29 year old Derick Brassard on that deal worth to the right team? What about Zucc? Is it worth giving Kreider the kind of money he's looking for?
In short - if we're aiming for that #1 pick and we're really in such dire straits - we should deal Hank NOW and start answering the rest of those questions as the year progresses and the losses pile up.
I swear I'm trying to respond. I just can't stop laughing at "Bishop having surpassed Lundqvist" ahhhhhhhhh
I wish this place existed when Jim Carey (nope, not the actor) had his Vezina year and then surpassed Patrick Roy...err I mean and then disappeared back into obscurity.
I wish this place existed when Jim Carey (nope, not the actor) had his Vezina year and then surpassed Patrick Roy...err I mean and then disappeared back into obscurity.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
It's really not that laughable. Many people in this thread have Bishop ahead of Lundqvist or right behind him.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2093199&highlight=goalie+rankings&page=3
Bishop had a 2.06 GAA this past season. Lundqvist the past 3 seasons he's been at a 2.48, 2.25 and 2.36.
And a SV% of .926, where Hank hasn't beensince the lockout shortened year.
Eye test, stats, whatever. There is no shame in saying Bishop has surpassed Lundqvist.
That is just my opinion (which the Vezina voters happen to share, Bishop was 2nd, Lundqvist not even in the top 10), anyway. Maybe I'm just overrating Bishop coming off his best season and underrating Lundqvist coming off his worst. But that's how things work these days: what have you done for me yesterday, blah blah blah. And the Lightning for a better part of the season were struggling mightily with a bunch of injuries, and a drop in production from Stamkos.
Kucherov, Hedman and Bishop carried that team on their backs for the majority of the season.
Either way, there has been a rise in goaltending all across the league. Dallas is probably the only team in the league that doesn't have a very good goalie currently in net or in the pipeline.
Needing an elite #1C and elite #1D to be a contender has become the new needing an elite goalie.
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