Who are the top 15 C in the league currently?

[kanucks25]

My top 15 centers overall, which is divided into three main tiers (right this second, no consideration for past seasons):
1. Draisaitl
2. MacKinnon
3. McDavid
4. Matthews
--significant gap--
5. Eichel
6. Point
7. Barkov
8. Hughes
9. Scheifele
--significant gap--
10. Crosby
11. Aho
12. Thomas
13. Kopitar
14. Stutzle
15. Hischier
Honorable mentions that I wouldn't argue against being in that last tier: Suzuki, Thompson, Bedard, D. Strome, Miller, EP40, Larkin

Until Matthews does something in the playoffs there is not a "significant gap" between him and guys like Eichel, Point and Barkov.

 

[BigTomBomber]

Scheifele is the undisputed #1C on the best NHL team over the past couple of regular seasons . Jets next two C's are Lowry and Namestnikov, so Scheifele gets every tough matchup every night.

If the top C on the top team isn't in the top 15, then I guess the #1C isn't that important for team success, after all.
View attachment 976130

Not a single mention of Hintz; i’d def thought some would have him pop up in the 10-15 range.

 

[EXTRAS]

Is reinhart really classified as a center?

 

[benfranklin]

Are you still considered a "center" if you play 40% of your ES time on the wing and 46% of your total time on the wing?

Removed fake centers aka guys who dont primarily play center.

1. MacKinnon
2. McDavid
3. Eichel
4. Hughes
5. Matthews
6. Crosby
7. Barkov
8. Stutzle
9. Scheifele
10. Kopitar
11. Aho
12 Larkin
13. Bedard
14. Hintz
15. EP40

 

[benfranklin]

Brayden Point has the seventh most goals in the entire league since 2020-2021 (I think 5th in G/GP by my math) and he's not even in half of your top 10s. I hear he's also pretty decent in the playoffs, too. I know I'm a Tampa fan, but do better. There's no universe where he's not a top 10 center in the NHL. Aho, Scheifele, Miller, and Hischier ahead of him? Gimme a break. Miller wasn't even ahead of him in the lineup in Tampa when Point was 21 years old. He's on pace for his fourth 40 goal season in 8 full years in the league. Might even crack 50 again.

Because him and Guentzel split time at C from a FO pov. You can make the argument that he primarily plays it still even though he takes 70% of the faceoffs, but it gets complicated quick with who is a true center.

Point/Guentzel
Draisaitl
Reinhart
Duchene
Necas

 

[boltsfan86]

How is there a significant gap between Schiefele and Aho?

Just my opinion. Aho is a great player but I wouldn't call him a game-breaker on offense or defense. Scheifele is a total gamechanger on offense since he's above a point per game with 30 goals already. Aho is a point per game with almost a dozen fewer goals.

At 5 on 5 this year, Scheifele has near double Aho's goals (16 to 9), more assists, (16 to 13), more primary assists (11 to 10), and more points (32 to 22). Scheifele has also drawn more penalties at 5 on 5 by a wide margin (21 to 10) while taking the same number of penalties. He has more hits (42 to 36), and has blocked more shots (39 to 17,.

Plus, Scheifele has been on the ice for 48 goals for and 39 goals against. Aho has been on the ice for 36 goals for and 46 goals against. You might not think that stat is super important, but I do. Not to mention, in one more game played, Scheifele has logged ~173 more minutes played at 5 on 5.

Aho is probably better at defense overall, and he's certainly better at faceoffs, but the fact remains that the VAST majority of Aho's points (33 of his 55) have come in situations other than 5-on-5, which is where the bulk of the game is played. Scheifele is simply dominant at 5-on-5 (8th most points in the NHL among Centers at 5-on-5) while Aho ranks THIRD among Centers ON HIS OWN TEAM (and he's fourth if you consider Necas a Center). So that's where I really draw the line. His solid defense isn't enough to put him in the same echelon as Scheifele (at least for me).

 

[LordStanlersCup]

Are you still considered a "center" if you play 40% of your ES time on the wing and 46% of your total time on the wing?

Removed fake centers aka guys who dont primarily play center.

1. MacKinnon
2. McDavid
3. Eichel
4. Hughes
5. Matthews
6. Crosby
7. Barkov
8. Stutzle
9. Scheifele
10. Kopitar
11. Aho
12 Larkin
13. Bedard
14. Hintz
15. EP40

What statistic were you using when identifying Centers vs Non-Centers because Point has taken more faceoffs this season than McDavid.

 

[boltsfan86]

Because him and Guentzel split time at C from a FO pov. You can make the argument that he primarily plays it still even though he takes 70% of the faceoffs, but it gets complicated quick with who is a true center.

Point/Guentzel
Draisaitl
Reinhart
Duchene
Necas

Abysmal argument. They don't "split time," lol. Point has taken 588 faceoffs this year to Guentzel's 124. Point also missed 5 games this year which is when Guentzel took most of those faceoffs. The rest have just been when Point gets kicked out of the dot.

Jack Hughes has only taken 26 more faceoffs than (588 to 614) Point in SEVEN more games. Point has the better FO win percentage by 13.2%. Point has already won 68 more faceoffs than a guy you put in your top 5 and somehow you don't consider him to be a center. Is Hughes not a true center?

What statistic were you using when identifying Centers vs Non-Centers because Point has taken more faceoffs this season than McDavid.

Yeah, Point hasn't started on the wing and Guentzel hasn't started at center with Point in the lineup all year. Guy is just making stuff up

Until Matthews does something in the playoffs there is not a "significant gap" between him and guys like Eichel, Point and Barkov.

I was just saying based on this season but I agree with you if we are comparing active careers.

 

[benfranklin]

What statistic were you using when identifying Centers vs Non-Centers because Point has taken more faceoffs this season than McDavid.

Honestly that is a good point. Draisaitl is technically more of a center than McDavid going off that. My point is that if they play on the same line for the majority of their shifts, they both cant be centers. Who is playing the position truly in terms of forechecking and backchecking covering the slot in terms of natural center tendencies.

Rantanen took all of Mackinnons forehand draws for him. Obviously that doesnt make Rantanen a center.

Abysmal argument. They don't "split time," lol. Point has taken 588 faceoffs this year to Guentzel's 124. Point also missed 5 games this year which is when Guentzel took most of those faceoffs. The rest have just been when Point gets kicked out of the dot.

Not really accurate but I understand the argument. Its up for debate who plays the position organically and isnt always going off faceoffs.

 

[boltsfan86]

Honestly that is a good point. Draisaitl is technically more of a center than McDavid going off that. My point is that if they play on the same line for the majority of their shifts, they both cant be centers. Who is playing the position truly in terms of forechecking and backchecking covering the slot in terms of natural center tendencies.

Rantanen took all of Mackinnons forehand draws for him. Obviously that doesnt make Rantanen a center.


Not really accurate but I understand the argument. Its up for debate who plays the position organically and isnt always going off faceoffs.

View attachment 976203

I don't get the point you're making. The two centers in the lineup who have played fewer games have taken fewer faceoffs? If a guy is in the lineup every night as the center, he's the center. Organic or not organic. You can make this case about Necas, Guentzel, and Reinhart types that can play center but don't. Point literally only plays center.

 

[zizbuka]

Thought for sure I'd see Noah Cates here somewhere.........

 

[Mulletman]

10. Hischier
11. Aho

How is it possible to rank Hischier above Aho?!
Hischier this year has 24+19=43 points in 51 games
Aho this year has 20+35=55 points in 55 games

Hischier has put up 160+236=396 points in 503 games which is 0.78 point per game
Aho has put up 274+338=612 points in 653 games which is 0.93 point per game

Hischier has reached 80 points 1 time and 60 points 3 times
Aho has reached 80 points 3 times and 60 points 6 times

Aho has been more durable playing 653/672 possible games= 97 %
Hischier has played 502/596 possible games= 84 %

Hischier is 26 with better teammates
Aho is 27 with worse teammates

Hischier will go down as a failed 1st overall while Aho will go down as one of the best draft picks in the 2nd round of all time. What's the argument for Hischier being better than Aho? Why would @tarheelhockey rather have Hischier instead of Aho on the Canes?

 

[HabsCode]

How is it possible to rank Hischier above Aho?!
Hischier this year has 24+19=43 points in 51 games
Aho this year has 20+35=55 points in 55 games

Hischier has put up 160+236=396 points in 503 games which is 0.78 point per game
Aho has put up 274+338=612 points in 653 games which is 0.93 point per game

Hischier has reached 80 points 1 time and 60 points 3 times
Aho has reached 80 points 3 times and 60 points 6 times

Aho has been more durable playing 653/672 possible games= 97 %
Hischier has played 502/596 possible games= 84 %

Hischier is 26 with better teammates
Aho is 27 with worse teammates

Hischier will go down as a failed 1st overall while Aho will go down as one of the best draft picks in the 2nd round of all time. What's the argument for Hischier being better than Aho? Why would @tarheelhockey rather have Hischier instead of Aho on the Canes?

Most likely they value Hischier defensive game more, similar to how some, me included, rank Barkov before Matthews.

 

[Hobble]

Scheifele is 7th in scoring for centers and you don't even have him top 15? Wild.

Someone better screenshot the OP and send it to Scheif. He runs on spite now.

 

[benfranklin]

I don't get the point you're making. The two centers in the lineup who have played fewer games have taken fewer faceoffs? If a guy is in the lineup every night as the center, he's the center. Organic or not organic. You can make this case about Necas, Guentzel, and Reinhart types that can play center but don't. Point literally only plays center.

Guentzel and Point
Draisaitl and McDavid

Two pairs who play majority of time together. They all cant be considered a "center". So rather than using faceoffs as the way to determine it, because many players prefer their backhand only during faceoffs so makes sense to defer whenever they get to the off hand circle. So which players play the position from a gameplay stand point when they are together? AKA wingers usually cover the points, while centers cruise around the net/slot more defensively.

Someone better screenshot the OP and send it to Scheif. He runs on spite now.

I have him 9 on my list. High five me.

How is it possible to rank Hischier above Aho?!
Hischier this year has 24+19=43 points in 51 games
Aho this year has 20+35=55 points in 55 games

Hischier has put up 160+236=396 points in 503 games which is 0.78 point per game
Aho has put up 274+338=612 points in 653 games which is 0.93 point per game

Hischier has reached 80 points 1 time and 60 points 3 times
Aho has reached 80 points 3 times and 60 points 6 times

Aho has been more durable playing 653/672 possible games= 97 %
Hischier has played 502/596 possible games= 84 %

Hischier is 26 with better teammates
Aho is 27 with worse teammates

Hischier will go down as a failed 1st overall while Aho will go down as one of the best draft picks in the 2nd round of all time. What's the argument for Hischier being better than Aho? Why would @tarheelhockey rather have Hischier instead of Aho on the Canes?

I personally tried to go with a team 1C over another teams 2C, but I thought hard about putting Hischier in my top 15. But I fully recognize how going back a decade that would be silly to do to Malkin.

 

[Regal]

Brayden Point has the seventh most goals in the entire league since 2020-2021 (I think 5th in G/GP by my math) and he's not even in half of your top 10s. I hear he's also pretty decent in the playoffs, too. I know I'm a Tampa fan, but do better. There's no universe where he's not a top 10 center in the NHL. Aho, Scheifele, Miller, and Hischier ahead of him? Gimme a break. Miller wasn't even ahead of him in the lineup in Tampa when Point was 21 years old. He's on pace for his fourth 40 goal season in 8 full years in the league. Might even crack 50 again.

When you posted this only one poster didn’t have Point in the top 10 and they had him at 12

 

[tarheelhockey]

Just my opinion. Aho is a great player but I wouldn't call him a game-breaker on offense or defense. Scheifele is a total gamechanger on offense since he's above a point per game with 30 goals already. Aho is a point per game with almost a dozen fewer goals.

At 5 on 5 this year, Scheifele has near double Aho's goals (16 to 9), more assists, (16 to 13), more primary assists (11 to 10), and more points (32 to 22). Scheifele has also drawn more penalties at 5 on 5 by a wide margin (21 to 10) while taking the same number of penalties. He has more hits (42 to 36), and has blocked more shots (39 to 17,.

Plus, Scheifele has been on the ice for 48 goals for and 39 goals against. Aho has been on the ice for 36 goals for and 46 goals against. You might not think that stat is super important, but I do. Not to mention, in one more game played, Scheifele has logged ~173 more minutes played at 5 on 5.

Aho is probably better at defense overall, and he's certainly better at faceoffs, but the fact remains that the VAST majority of Aho's points (33 of his 55) have come in situations other than 5-on-5, which is where the bulk of the game is played. Scheifele is simply dominant at 5-on-5 (8th most points in the NHL among Centers at 5-on-5) while Aho ranks THIRD among Centers ON HIS OWN TEAM (and he's fourth if you consider Necas a Center). So that's where I really draw the line. His solid defense isn't enough to put him in the same echelon as Scheifele (at least for me).

That’s all fair — I don’t see a qualitative gap between them as hockey players, certainly not over the long term, but the current numbers are what they are.

FWIW, the point about him being 3rd among team centers in 5v5 points is just a midseason statistical oddity. He’s been consistently first in that category year over year, and barring injury will end up first again this year.

 

[boltsfan86]

That’s all fair — I don’t see a qualitative gap between them as hockey players, certainly not over the long term, but the current numbers are what they are.

FWIW, the point about him being 3rd among team centers in 5v5 points is just a midseason statistical oddity. He’s been consistently first in that category year over year, and barring injury will end up first again this year.

I know, but my list was only taking this year into account. I think I'd have him higher if the list was, say, past three years. I just wanted to keep it simple by using current numbers. Otherwise McDavid would be #1

 

[123offtheglass]

How is it possible to rank Hischier above Aho?!
Hischier this year has 24+19=43 points in 51 games
Aho this year has 20+35=55 points in 55 games

Hischier has put up 160+236=396 points in 503 games which is 0.78 point per game
Aho has put up 274+338=612 points in 653 games which is 0.93 point per game

Hischier has reached 80 points 1 time and 60 points 3 times
Aho has reached 80 points 3 times and 60 points 6 times

Aho has been more durable playing 653/672 possible games= 97 %
Hischier has played 502/596 possible games= 84 %

Hischier is 26 with better teammates
Aho is 27 with worse teammates

Hischier will go down as a failed 1st overall while Aho will go down as one of the best draft picks in the 2nd round of all time. What's the argument for Hischier being better than Aho? Why would @tarheelhockey rather have Hischier instead of Aho on the Canes?

Really tough call but I don't care what a player was doing back in 2017. They're much closer in ppg over the last few seasons. I personally take Hischier over Aho because of his defensive game, even though Aho is strong there in his own right. Durability schmurability, it's not a factor here; neither guys injury history is of concern or affecting them today.

In terms of deployment, strength of teamates/competition, I give that edge to Hischier. Strength of teamates while on the ice is a wash, but Hischier gets a little tougher deployment getting a little tougher matchups with more dzone starts, & wins a ton of puck battles & draws. Was very deserving of being #2 to Bergeron in 2023 selke voting.

Aho is the better offensive player, producing in a defensivly oriented system, so it's very close to me.

 

[boltsfan86]

Guentzel and Point
Draisaitl and McDavid

Two pairs who play majority of time together. They all cant be considered a "center". So rather than using faceoffs as the way to determine it, because many players prefer their backhand only during faceoffs so makes sense to defer whenever they get to the off hand circle. So which players play the position from a gameplay stand point when they are together? AKA wingers usually cover the points, while centers cruise around the net/slot more defensively.


I have him 9 on my list. High five me.


I personally tried to go with a team 1C over another teams 2C, but I thought hard about putting Hischier in my top 15. But I fully recognize how going back a decade that would be silly to do to Malkin.

Well, Guentzel isn't the center, and no one argued he was, hence why he isn't on a single list in this thread. He has not played center by design all year except for when Point was hurt for a few games and missed a team meeting.

If your definition of center isn't just based on reading the lineup card, and you are looking for which player spends the most time in the slot, I have a pretty helpful answer for you (see below). Nobody spends more time in the middle of the ice on Tampa than Point. It's really not close. Otherwise it would be really impressive that he scored every time he happened to float in to the middle of the ice from the wing.

And now Draisaitl isn't a center? You are probably the only guy who thinks this way. Is everyone else wrong and you're right, or...

 

[Regal]

Guentzel and Point
Draisaitl and McDavid

Two pairs who play majority of time together. They all cant be considered a "center". So rather than using faceoffs as the way to determine it, because many players prefer their backhand only during faceoffs so makes sense to defer whenever they get to the off hand circle. So which players play the position from a gameplay stand point when they are together? AKA wingers usually cover the points, while centers cruise around the net/slot more defensively.


I have him 9 on my list. High five me.


I personally tried to go with a team 1C over another teams 2C, but I thought hard about putting Hischier in my top 15. But I fully recognize how going back a decade that would be silly to do to Malkin.

Nobody considers Guentzel a center though. He’s played almost entirely at wing his whole career except for spot duty. He’s just one of those players listed as center on NHL.com forever, like Reinhart. There’s no question that Point is a center on that line.

Draisaitl and McDavid are different because when they’re apart, they exclusively play center, and they play apart more than they do together (you’re incorrect in saying they play the majority of the time together). Draisaitl has played without McDavid 65% of his 5v5 ice time this year as a center. McDavid has played 61% of his ice time at 5v5 away from Draisaitl as a center. On any other team both would likely be playing center exclusively, so both should be considered as such. That’s also the case with Point, but not the case with Guentzel, hence why Guentzel should be considered a winger.

 

[elmaco]

Outside of the top few names (McDavid, Mackinnon) gets trickier to rank.

How to compare an offensive 1C vs a Selke calibre 1C? How heavily do we have a recency bias in this seasons performance vs the last 3-5 year track record and consistency?

Do goals increase your rank vs points? If it does for Matthews, then Point should be higher too.

Check their cups.

 

[benfranklin]

Well, Guentzel isn't the center, and no one argued he was, hence why he isn't on a single list in this thread. He has not played center by design all year except for when Point was hurt for a few games and missed a team meeting.

If your definition of center isn't just based on reading the lineup card, and you are looking for which player spends the most time in the slot, I have a pretty helpful answer for you (see below). Nobody spends more time in the middle of the ice on Tampa than Point. It's really not close. Otherwise it would be really impressive that he scored every time he happened to float in to the middle of the ice from the wing.

And now Draisaitl isn't a center? You are probably the only guy who thinks this way. Is everyone else wrong and you're right, or...

View attachment 976215

Youre focused on the Bolts, which is fine, but the same argument goes for a lot of NHL.com's listing of positions. My main one is Draisaitl and McDavid. Both are centers but they play 46.5% together (current 24-25 stats, other years are even more). So its silly to me they are both considered centers on everyones list when the majority of their point production comes when someone isnt playing center.

Would both be the 1C on 90% of other teams? Yes, but one of them technically plays wing for nearly 50% of their entire ice time.

Nobody considers Guentzel a center though. He’s played almost entirely at wing his whole career except for spot duty. He’s just one of those players listed as center on NHL.com forever, like Reinhart. There’s no question that Point is a center on that line.

Draisaitl and McDavid are different because when they’re apart, they exclusively play center, and they play apart more than they do together (you’re incorrect in saying they play the majority of the time together). Draisaitl has played without McDavid 65% of his 5v5 ice time this year as a center. McDavid has played 61% of his ice time at 5v5 away from Draisaitl as a center. On any other team both would likely be playing center exclusively, so both should be considered as such. That’s also the case with Point, but not the case with Guentzel, hence why Guentzel should be considered a winger.

Tell that to NHL.com

And I am not incorrect. I literally jsut did the math. It is 40% of even strength time and 46 and change accounting for PP time which I think we all agree McDavid is the center even if he isnt taking the faceoffs right?

 

[Regal]

Youre focused on the Bolts, which is fine, but the same argument goes for a lot of NHL.com's listing of positions. My main one is Draisaitl and McDavid. Both are centers but they play 46.5% together (current 24-25 stats, other years are even more). So its silly to me they are both considered centers on everyones list when the majority of their point production comes when someone isnt playing center.

Would both be the 1C on 90% of other teams? Yes, but one of them technically plays wing for nearly 50% of their entire ice time.


Tell that to NHL.comView attachment 976216

And I am not incorrect. I literally jsut did the math. It is 40% of even strength time and 46 and change accounting for PP time which I think we all agree McDavid is the center even if he isnt taking the faceoffs right?

I literally just wrote in that post that NHL lists him as a C. The website is a bad source for positions. This is well known.

Even strength time includes things like empty net and 3 on 3, and every team with two strong centers plays both on the same PP. 5v5 is actual lines, and my numbers are correct. 65% of the time Draisaitl plays without McDavid. 61% of the time, McDavid plays without Draisaitl.

But even if we use your numbers, you realize that if he plays with McDavid 40% and 46% of the time, that’s not the majority, right?

 

[nturn06]

My top 15 centers overall, which is divided into three main tiers (right this second, no consideration for past seasons):
1. Draisaitl
2. MacKinnon
3. McDavid
4. Matthews
--significant gap--
5. Eichel
6. Point
7. Barkov
8. Hughes
9. Scheifele
--significant gap--
10. Crosby
11. Aho
12. Thomas
13. Kopitar
14. Stutzle
15. Hischier
Honorable mentions that I wouldn't argue against being in that last tier: Suzuki, Thompson, Bedard, D. Strome, Miller, EP40, Larkin

If I am not mistaken, AM is on pace for about 30 goals and 70 points this season. I don't think that puts him miles ahead of Eichel/Point/Barkov...