Confirmed with Link: Zetterlund, Robins, 4th to Ottawa for 2025 2nd, Zack Ostapchuk, Noah Gregor

[Juxtaposer]

I maintain that Ostapchuk is a red herring and a nothing player

The centerpiece of this trade is the 2nd round pick, what we do with that is what will determine how good this trade was in the end

Yeah, the 6'4" 21 year old former 39th overall tough sonofagun with two solid pro-seasons under his belt who projects at least as a very useful 4th liner is a red herring, the 51st overall selection in a weak-ass draft is the real target.

 

[weastern bias]

Yeah, the 6'4" 21 year old former 39th overall tough sonofagun with two solid pro-seasons under his belt who projects at least as a very useful 4th liner is a red herring, the 51st overall selection in a weak-ass draft is the real target.

It's not the placement of the pick, but the potential for it to be a flipable asset that has to be enticing about adding a second

I don't think the guy who scores under half a point per game in the AHL is necessarily the most enticing prospect, especially given he never scored much at lower levels either, I think Mike is just going to speak much more glowingly about the actual person in the trade to big-up his value and investment than to say "yeah, I really wanted this pick, but this kid is kinda here too, I guess"

 

[Hodge]

I maintain that Ostapchuk is a red herring and a nothing player

The centerpiece of this trade is the 2nd round pick, what we do with that is what will determine how good this trade was in the end

It's not really a 2nd round pick though. More like a trade up from the 97th overall pick to the ~50th.

 

[Juxtaposer]

It's not the placement of the pick, but the potential for it to be a flipable asset that has to be enticing about adding a second

I don't think the guy who scores under half a point per game in the AHL is necessarily the most enticing prospect, especially given he never scored much at lower levels either, I think Mike is just going to speak much more glowingly about the actual person in the trade to big-up his value and investment than to say "yeah, I really wanted this pick, but this kid is kinda here too, I guess"

What exactly do you think late 2nd round picks are worth? Who are we trading with that would value a 51st overall pick in a weak-ass draft more than Fabian Zetterlund?

 

[Cas]

I don't think the supposed quality of a draft matters once you're getting into the second round. They're pretty much all lottery tickets at that point anyway, so it's about whether you can find diamonds in the rough.

 

[weastern bias]

What exactly do you think late 2nd round picks are worth? Who are we trading with that would value a 51st overall pick in a weak-ass draft more than Fabian Zetterlund?

They're the kind of filler GMs find very enticing in "quantity over quality" packages to make moves

Either packaged to get a player, to move up in a draft, to make a prospect swap, ect

It's a lot easier for a GM to sell a trade-down to their fanbase when they can say "I got a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for the pick" than to not be able to apply those labels, most fans won't dive deep enough to realize the 2nd was basically an extra 3rd

I think Mike is hording draft capital so he has enough to spray out the door to aquire basically whatever he wants this summer, I just don't know what direction that may take in terms of the specific targets

 

[timorous me]

Whether or not Ostapchuk becomes a legit 3C is going to decide if this trade was good or bad. That's really it. Clearly Grier and his pro scouts really believe in Ostapchuk, and I get the vision. Big guy who plays hard-nosed hockey, good defensively, good hands, those types of players are basically impossible to acquire if they're young established NHLers, so I really do get what Grier is going for. I just don't believe in Ostapchuk becoming a regular 35-40 point player the way they evidently do.

I'd be curious to know--let's say Ostapchuk turns into a defensively solid, good PK guy. If we eventually have two top lines that can rack up a lot of points, what do you think is the minimum offense Ostapchuk would need to provide to still be effective in that role as a 3C?

I doubt he's ever going to get to 35-40 points, but I wonder if 25-30 could still be enough for him to be a solid more defensive 3C (like Goodrow in his prime, as was suggested by Scott Wheeler). Thinking about it, guys like Goodrow and Lowry have been right around 30 in their primes. Maybe with the right linemates that's something realistic for Ostapchuk to be able to achieve.

 

[Juxtaposer]

They're the kind of filler GMs find very enticing in "quantity over quality" packages to make moves

Either packaged to get a player, to move up in a draft, to make a prospect swap, ect

It's a lot easier for a GM to sell a trade-down to their fanbase when they can say "I got a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for the pick" than to not be able to apply those labels, most fans won't dive deep enough to realize the 2nd was basically an extra 3rd

I think Mike is hording draft capital so he has enough to spray out the door to aquire basically whatever he wants this summer, I just don't know what direction that may take in terms of the specific targets

It sounds even better to say "I got a 1st, 3rd, and Fabian f***ing Zetterlund for the pick".

You haven't answered the question at all. Who are we trading with that's going to value a late 2nd in a bad draft over Fabian Zetterlund, an established 25 year old middle-six winger?

I'd be curious to know--let's say Ostapchuk turns into a defensively solid, good PK guy. If we eventually have two top lines that can rack up a lot of points, what do you think is the minimum offense Ostapchuk would need to provide to still be effective in that role as a 3C?

I doubt he's ever going to get to 35-40 points, but I wonder if 25-30 could still be enough for him to be a solid more defensive 3C (like Goodrow in his prime, as was suggested by Scott Wheeler). Thinking about it, guys like Goodrow and Lowry have been right around 30 in their primes. Maybe with the right linemates that's something realistic for Ostapchuk to be able to achieve.

IMO a great 3C needs to put up 30 points at even strength. I said 35-40 for Ostapchuk thinking that he seems like a good PP2 net-front option that would pad the stats a little.

Florida's 3C (Lundell) scored 35 points last season. The 2023 Knights had 40 point paces from guys like Roy, Amadio, Carrier, and Barbashev. The 2022 Avs had 35 point paces from Compher and Newhook. Point is, a great 3C is a guy who could pass for a 2C on a bad team like the Sharks (ie: 2024-2025 Alexander Wennberg).

To me, 3C is an incredibly important cog on a great team. From everything Grier has said regarding what he wants from Ostapchuk, I think he agrees. His description of Ostapchuk sounds exactly like the sort of 3C you'd find on a tough, heavy playoff team like the 2023 Knights or 2024 Panthers.

So like I said, I see the vision. Now it's on Ostapchuk to become that player. I expect a good finish to the season with the Cuda and hopefully a long playoff run, and then for him to win the Sharks' 4C spot in September.

 

[Hodge]

Without having seen him play, it seems like Ostapchuk might also have the skillset to potentially be a F1 on a top six line down the road.

Like if we fall to 3rd in the lottery I could see Ostapchuk-Smith-Martone being a great 2nd line in a few years with Ostapchuk taking draws on the left (and maybe even right) side.

 

[weastern bias]

It sounds even better to say "I got a 1st, 3rd, and Fabian f***ing Zetterlund for the pick".

You haven't answered the question at all. Who are we trading with that's going to value a late 2nd in a bad draft over Fabian Zetterlund, an established 25 year old middle-six winger?

You know the draft better than I do, if there's someone on the board in the middle of the first round that the front office finds enticing then having an additional disposable second round pick is valuable capital to make a trade up, combined with the Dallas pick or the Edmonton pick and wherever else it takes, that kind of quantity is important for targeted draft day trades

At that time Zetterlund would have been an arb-eligible unsigned RFA coming off a 50 point year on the worst team in the league, and it's clear to me that Grier wasn't comfortable with the contract demands his agent was making so he was likely seeking an overpayment, he wouldn't have much more value than a spare second round pick and would have fewer potential trade destinations given the immediate need for cap space to sign him on any given trade partner, if Zetterlund is a disposable asset (as the front office seems to have determined) then replacing him with a 2nd rounder just gives us a different thoroughfare to capitalize on his value

 

[Juxtaposer]

You know the draft better than I do, if there's someone on the board in the middle of the first round that the front office finds enticing then having an additional disposable second round pick is valuable capital to make a trade up, combined with the Dallas pick or the Edmonton pick and wherever else it takes, that kind of quantity is important for targeted draft day trades

At that time Zetterlund would have been an arb-eligible unsigned RFA coming off a 50 point year on the worst team in the league, and it's clear to me that Grier wasn't comfortable with the contract demands his agent was making so he was likely seeking an overpayment, he wouldn't have much more value than a spare second round pick and would have fewer potential trade destinations given the immediate need for cap space to sign him on any given trade partner, if Zetterlund is a disposable asset (as the front office seems to have determined) then replacing him with a 2nd rounder just gives us a different thoroughfare to capitalize on his value

I understand that the arbitration situation decreases Zetterlund's value somewhat, but pending UFA Anthony f***ing Beauvillier just returned a late 2nd round pick at the deadline.

I have said again and again the last few days that picks just aren't that valuable right now. Zetterlund is a far more attractive trade asset, arbitration case and all, than 51st overall in a weak draft. That pick has statistically like a 15-20% chance of ever yielding an NHL player at all, never mind one as good as Zetterlund.


(F*** me on Ostapchuk, BTW. Per Sheng he's reporting to the Sharks.)

 

[weastern bias]

I understand that the arbitration situation decreases Zetterlund's value somewhat, but pending UFA Anthony f***ing Beauvillier just returned a late 2nd round pick at the deadline.

I have said again and again the last few days that picks just aren't that valuable right now. Zetterlund is a far more attractive trade asset, arbitration case and all, than 51st overall in a weak draft. That pick has statistically like a 15-20% chance of ever yielding an NHL player at all, never mind one as good as Zetterlund.


(F*** me on Ostapchuk, BTW. Per Sheng he's reporting to the Sharks.)

Maybe you're right and I should be taking Grier at face value, as you said Ostapchuk is seemingly gonna play for the Sharks soon, but I just don't buy it

I maintain this was a preemptive salary dump, trying to maximize flexibility and not waste money on a relatively fungible player

 

[Jargon]

Without having seen him play, it seems like Ostapchuk might also have the skillset to potentially be a F1 on a top six line down the road.

Like if we fall to 3rd in the lottery I could see Ostapchuk-Smith-Martone being a great 2nd line in a few years with Ostapchuk taking draws on the left (and maybe even right) side.

My hope — and Grier’s, obviously — is he’s an incredibly difficult 3C to play against who overpowers you with his speed and strength. I think if his hands are good like it’s been reported, he’ll put up 30 points with the right linemates. Like honestly, I’d love for him to start as a winger for Wennberg on the 3rd line with, say, Graf next year, and see what he can do. I’d rather not have him on the 4th line with Noah Gregor.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I understand that the arbitration situation decreases Zetterlund's value somewhat, but pending UFA Anthony f***ing Beauvillier just returned a late 2nd round pick at the deadline.

I have said again and again the last few days that picks just aren't that valuable right now. Zetterlund is a far more attractive trade asset, arbitration case and all, than 51st overall in a weak draft. That pick has statistically like a 15-20% chance of ever yielding an NHL player at all, never mind one as good as Zetterlund.


(F*** me on Ostapchuk, BTW. Per Sheng he's reporting to the Sharks.)

And Chicago apparently weren't offered even a 2nd for Ryan Donato who is a far better player than Zetterlund, you take what you can get.

 

[Jargon]

(F*** me on Ostapchuk, BTW. Per Sheng he's reporting to the Sharks.)

But they made sure that he was eligible for Barracuda playoffs. I think that’s fine - let him meet the team, get some games in, show what he’s got, meet the coach and know what’s expected of him then go help the Cuda in the playoffs.

He better become bffs with Eklund in the next month though.

 

[Juxtaposer]

But they made sure that he was eligible for Barracuda playoffs. I think that’s fine - let him meet the team, get some games in, show what he’s got, meet the coach and know what’s expected of him then go help the Cuda in the playoffs.

He better become bffs with Eklund in the next month though.

Right, he's definitely Cuda-bound after the Sharks' season is over, Sheng confirmed that the AHL transaction was for that purpose. I just didn't think he'd see NHL time purely because of how many forwards we have already and because I thought we'd need tryouts for other guys like Bordeleau/Gushchin. But maybe I was wrong, and we're simply gonna ride Bordeleau and Gushchin to a Calder Cup and then let them free.

That Cuda roster gonna be kind stacked when Askarov is healthy and the Sharks' season is done. Askarov and Carriere in net, Cagnoni/Schuldt/Carlsson/Mukhamadullin/Thompson on D, Poturalski/Graf/Bordeleau/Gushchin/Cardwell/Ostapchuk/Pitlick/Regenda/Bystedt/White/Duehr up front.

 

[Hodge]

Cuda playoff lineup is gonna be fascinating. When you add Graf and Ostapchuk they'll have like 20 forwards.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Cuda playoff lineup is gonna be fascinating. When you add Graf and Ostapchuk they'll have like 20 forwards.

Here's the most recent Cuda lineup:



Really, really curious how you fit Ostapchuk, Graf, and a healthy Bystedt into it. For sure I pull Sabourin, maybe Vincent and Vanroboys are the other two? The latter two are great identity fourth liners though, so I'm ambivalent about taking them out of the lineup. Maybe White comes out? Good problem to have, I suppose.

 

[Lebanezer]

Here's the most recent Cuda lineup:



Really, really curious how you fit Ostapchuk, Graf, and a healthy Bystedt into it. For sure I pull Sabourin, maybe Vincent and Vanroboys are the other two? The latter two are great identity fourth liners though, so I'm ambivalent about taking them out of the lineup. Maybe White comes out? Good problem to have, I suppose.

Don’t forget Musty and Lund.

 

[Hodge]

Here's the most recent Cuda lineup:



Really, really curious how you fit Ostapchuk, Graf, and a healthy Bystedt into it. For sure I pull Sabourin, maybe Vincent and Vanroboys are the other two? The latter two are great identity fourth liners though, so I'm ambivalent about taking them out of the lineup. Maybe White comes out? Good problem to have, I suppose.

Yeah I feel like they're gonna want at least 3 of Vincent/Vanroboys/Houle/Sabourin in the playoff lineup.