Zadina probably starting out in GR

[The Flying Octopus]

Is it the ONE thing? No. But I thought it was worth a mention in addition to my concerns (in limited viewings/small sample sizes) that have already been touched on.

In my opinion, he hasn't played good hockey in camp/preseason. He has put himself in dangerous situations. I'm not impressed by his Youtube highlights from Junior. I don't like his attitude after being sent down. And to me, this looks like he embellished big time.

Am I writing his career off right now? Absolutely not. But I am voicing my concern that I am not a fan of this player right now. And I feel the need to speak up more about it with people complaining that he didn't make the Wings out of camp

Dangerous situations? Hmm, elaborate.

Not impressed by his Youtube highlights? Cool story.

Didn't like his attitude after being sent down? O so the interview in a black hallway after a hard practice, soft tone in his voice- makes you think he has a bad attitude? You don't need to speak to anyone regarding Z. Your opinion is downright asinine, way off and just go away.

 

[Ezekial]

It's not about this season.

If Bouchard eventually becomes a top pairing D, while Zadina tops out around 50 points a year, that's a bad pick. But if Z2 eventually flirts with PPG stats, while Bouchard is just a solid middle pair guy, then it's a win, no matter how long the learning curve.

It's all about the long term payout.

If Bouchard becomes a 6 and a PP specialist....

It doesn't matter right now. If you follow buddy's argument - it's that THIS SEASON does matter.

 

[jkutswings]

If Bouchard becomes a 6 and a PP specialist....

It doesn't matter right now. If you follow buddy's argument - it's that THIS SEASON does matter.

And I was disagreeing with him, saying that no, this season is irrelevant.

Successful rebuilds are based on what players eventually peak at, not how soon they can pitch in.

 

[TheMule93]

It's not about this season.

If Bouchard eventually becomes a top pairing D, while Zadina tops out around 50 points a year, that's a bad pick. But if Z2 eventually flirts with PPG stats, while Bouchard is just a solid middle pair guy, then it's a win, no matter how long the learning curve.

It's all about the long term payout.

No its not. Zadina was the clear and obvious BPA. It would have been a great pick with an unfortunate result.

 

[Ezekial]

And I was disagreeing with him, saying that no, this season is irrelevant.

Successful rebuilds are based on what players eventually peak at, not how soon they can pitch in.

My bad, I don't know what I lost in your post but that was obvious when I looked back. I thought you were responding to the elite comment above yours.

 

[Heaton]

No its not. Zadina was the clear and obvious BPA. It would have been a great pick with an unfortunate result.

Then we go down the rabbit hole of BPA vs. Need. I still think Zadina is going to be a stud so I'm not worried.

 

[izlez]

Dangerous situations? Hmm, elaborate.

Not impressed by his Youtube highlights? Cool story.

Didn't like his attitude after being sent down? O so the interview in a black hallway after a hard practice, soft tone in his voice- makes you think he has a bad attitude? You don't need to speak to anyone regarding Z. Your opinion is downright asinine, way off and just go away.

Dangerous situations: He got blown up going across the middle in the prospects tournament and had to get evaluated by the trainer. This worries me because this seems to be something he likes to do watching youtube highlights of him in junior. Perhaps its a skill that he has to make that dangerous play, but so far, it looks like it's just a bad play to be making at the professional level. He also took a few more big hits in that tournament.

Yes, youtube highlights. Sorry I don't live in the Czech Republic or Nova Scotia... just like 99% of the Red Wings fans posting glowing reviews of him.

Yes, I didn't like his attitude in that. Again, I'm just stating my opinion right now, and this is 1 small thing. Maybe it's a language barrier, but it sounds a lot to me like he's blaming the team for sending him down, although just about everyone agrees he wasn't very good.

So yeah, most people agree "he wasn't ready". I'm voicing concerns about "not being ready", could maybe, potentially, be that he wasn't actually a good pick. Again, Yakupov had a great shot at went 1st overall. Busts happen. It is possible that we critique the guy and not just blindly say "he will get better"




And just to expand on this some. I didn't watch Zadina highlights at all before the draft. You know who I did watch? Svechnikov. You know who's skillset I was highly suspect of? Svechnikov. And he's off to a great start. I don't claim to be an expert, I'm just sharing my opinion

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I guess my take is you don't draft him over Bouchard if you don't think he can start year 1. I just thought getting top defensemen was or should of been a priority and really like Bouchard. I was buying that he was that special, and it was amazing he fell to the Red Wings. I liked the pick even.

I can understand normally whats happening here, I've heard all valid points, but I just can't come to grips with being like "yeah I'm cool with developing a top 6 winger over a top 4 right handed defensemen". Idk, someone said all things equal Zadina should have the better career. I hope so, hopefully he's not a Tatar'esk like player/winger.

I also might have bought into he's a little more special that advertised even. I liked the selection at the time, but now that I'm seeing he could need a year or two in the AHL I waive my hands like, what the heck was wrong with Bouchard then? or Hughes even...

You take Zadina over Bouchard 100 times out of 100. Zadina is projected to be a top line, stud winger. That's why he was slotted in the top 3 virtually all season. Bouchard is projected to be a mid pairing guy, who might develop into a top pairing D, but is more likely to be Jeff Petry than Drew Doughty.

There is nothing at all wrong with Bouchard or Hughes or Dobson or Boqvist. All are fine players. All are also more likely than not going to go on to enjoy a lesser career path than Filip Zadina. And realistically, the fact that Zadina fell to 6 comes down to Montreal and Phoenix having a boner for ostensibly weaker prospects because they were Cs compared to Zadina and Ottawa is Ottawa.

Who in the hell is thinking that Zadina needs two years in the A? Everything I've read, seen, heard, etc. is that you keep him there for 15-20 games and re-assess where he is at and whether he'll make the jump.

I don't understand this "ZOMG THE WINGS DIDN'T TAKE A D AT 6, HULK SMASH" narrative. Zadina has a far far superior pedigree as a prospect to any of the D that was available. The Wings would have been insane to not take him.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Duplicate post

 

[jkutswings]

No its not. Zadina was the clear and obvious BPA. It would have been a great pick with an unfortunate result.

I don't think that BPA and a great pick are necessarily the same thing, but agree to disagree I guess.

 

[jkutswings]

You take Zadina over Bouchard 100 times out of 100. Zadina is projected to be a top line, stud winger. That's why he was slotted in the top 3 virtually all season. Bouchard is projected to be a mid pairing guy, who might develop into a top pairing D, but is more likely to be Jeff Petry than Drew Doughty.

There is nothing at all wrong with Bouchard or Hughes or Dobson or Boqvist. All are fine players. All are also more likely than not going to go on to enjoy a lesser career path than Filip Zadina. And realistically, the fact that Zadina fell to 6 comes down to Montreal and Phoenix having a ***** for ostensibly weaker prospects because they were Cs compared to Zadina and Ottawa is Ottawa.

Who in the hell is thinking that Zadina needs two years in the A? Everything I've read, seen, heard, etc. is that you keep him there for 15-20 games and re-assess where he is at and whether he'll make the jump.

I don't understand this "ZOMG THE WINGS DIDN'T TAKE A D AT 6, HULK SMASH" narrative. Zadina has a far far superior pedigree as a prospect to any of the D that was available. The Wings would have been insane to not take him.

I would completely agree if you replace Zadina with Svechnikov. He was head and shoulders above everybody not named Dahlin.

But Zadina went from challenging Svech for #2, to being a touch behind, to being possibly the best of the rest of the top ten. Did most scouting reports have him higher than those other defensemen? Yes. But it wasn't a huge difference by the time the draft rolled around.

If you personally think he was a slam dunk to take, that's fine. But it wasn't like every pro scout on Earth felt like Detroit would need their head examined if they took anybody but Zadina.

 

[Snuggs]

If Bouchard becomes a 6 and a PP specialist....

It doesn't matter right now. If you follow buddy's argument - it's that THIS SEASON does matter.

No you're not correctly following me. I'm disappointed Zadina didn't start out with the Red Wings because I think/thought he's good enough to play in the league already which is why we passed up on good young defenders to develop.

If Zadina wasn't good enough to start up with the big club(or relatively soon) someone pointed out that 20 game stint or something in the AHL with a call up, possible stay up, i'd be cool with that. No big deal. But if things turn out where Zadina get's a year or two in the AHL and is a Tatar type Winger for us then I'm a little upset on passing guys like Bouchard/Hughes who were going to take maybe the same amount of time(1-2years) to develop at a position of need or imo, bigger concern.

I didn't think Bouchard would come in an start day one, but I thought it was more important going to into the draft to draft defensemen early and develop some high talent guys.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

No you're not correctly following me. I'm disappointed Zadina didn't start out with the Red Wings because I think/thought he's good enough to play in the league already which is why we passed up on good young defenders to develop.

If Zadina wasn't good enough to start up with the big club(or relatively soon) someone pointed out that 20 game stint or something in the AHL with a call up, possible stay up, i'd be cool with that. No big deal. But if things turn out where Zadina get's a year or two in the AHL and is a Tatar type Winger for us then I'm a little upset on passing guys like Bouchard/Hughes who were going to take maybe the same amount of time(1-2years) to develop at a position of need or imo, bigger concern.

I didn't think Bouchard would come in an start day one, but I thought it was more important going to into the draft to draft defensemen early and develop some high talent guys.

I am not super high on Bouchard, but I remember saying several times leading into the draft that I thought his correct placement assuming he didn't have a disaster of a camp would make the team. He is physically ready and most of what he struggles with is stuff he can work on in the NHL.

Still would have gone Hughes, Dobson, Wahlstrom and Boqvist over him and Zadina, but we will see. Zadina should be a very good player for a long time, I don't see star. But hopefully the people that think that on him are right. He should score at the AHL level, especially with historically good AHL players as linemates. He is in a position to succeed and grow even if we leave him down there through the WJC.

 

[Invictus12]

Then we go down the rabbit hole of BPA vs. Need. I still think Zadina is going to be a stud so I'm not worried.

Needs can change really fast and going for the best player will probably lead you with the result of best player and with the best player its much easier to address the needs.

 

[TheMule93]

when does GR play their first game?

 

[42]

when does GR play their first game?

Tonight

 

[lomekian]

No you're not correctly following me. I'm disappointed Zadina didn't start out with the Red Wings because I think/thought he's good enough to play in the league already which is why we passed up on good young defenders to develop.

If Zadina wasn't good enough to start up with the big club(or relatively soon) someone pointed out that 20 game stint or something in the AHL with a call up, possible stay up, i'd be cool with that. No big deal. But if things turn out where Zadina get's a year or two in the AHL and is a Tatar type Winger for us then I'm a little upset on passing guys like Bouchard/Hughes who were going to take maybe the same amount of time(1-2years) to develop at a position of need or imo, bigger concern.

I didn't think Bouchard would come in an start day one, but I thought it was more important going to into the draft to draft defensemen early and develop some high talent guys.

As well as being taller than Tatar, Zadina is already a better passer and has a better shot. If he stays injury free and doesn't turn into a total fruit loop, he'll be a lot better than Tatar. I think everyone would agree that turning down Bouchard/Hughes for Tatar would be a little unwise...

 

[Ezekial]

If the two names that come to mind continually when you think of Zadina's trajectory and play style are Tatar and Yakupov then I don't know what to tell you. Watch him play hockey more.

 

[ThankGord]

If the two names that come to mind continually when you think of Zadina's trajectory and play style are Tatar and Yakupov then I don't know what to tell you. Watch him play hockey more.

Yup. Why are those players being used as points of comparison?

 

[TheMule93]

If the two names that come to mind continually when you think of Zadina's trajectory and play style are Tatar and Yakupov then I don't know what to tell you. Watch him play hockey more.

Zadina really reminded me of Tatar when I watched him in training camp/preseason. Not yakupov at all though

 

[Ezekial]

Zadina really reminded me of Tatar when I watched him in training camp/preseason. Not yakupov at all though

Maybe a little in terms of play style (Zadina is far more refined) but Zadina is a bigger man at 18 than Tatar has ever been in his life.

 

[RedWingzz]

Zadina really reminded me of Tatar when I watched him in training camp/preseason. Not yakupov at all though

Zadina is more of a game-breaker than Tatar.

top speed: even
quickness: Zadina
hands: pretty close
release: Zadina
competitiveness: I may go Tatar here until I see more from Zadina
2-way play: Zadina

 

[izlez]

If the two names that come to mind continually when you think of Zadina's trajectory and play style are Tatar and Yakupov then I don't know what to tell you. Watch him play hockey more.

Well, I was the one who brought up Yakupov.
It was mostly in response to the general sentiment of "sure Zadina hasn't been good so far, but he's a top-3 talent so we don't have to worry about him turning it around within a couple weeks."
Yakupov was another top talent with a good shot. People would have been right if they immediately expressed concern.
I wasn't really comparing them more than that.

 

[lilidk]

As well as being taller than Tatar, Zadina is already a better passer and has a better shot. If he stays injury free and doesn't turn into a total fruit loop, he'll be a lot better than Tatar. I think everyone would agree that turning down Bouchard/Hughes for Tatar would be a little unwise...

Tatar and Zadina totally different players, not way you can compare them.

 

[Ezekial]

Well, I was the one who brought up Yakupov.
It was mostly in response to the general sentiment of "sure Zadina hasn't been good so far, but he's a top-3 talent so we don't have to worry about him turning it around within a couple weeks."
Yakupov was another top talent with a good shot. People would have been right if they immediately expressed concern.
I wasn't really comparing them more than that.

Nail Yakupov put up 31 points in his first 48 NHL games. He wasn't considered a bust for a couple years.

You think it's an indictment on the future player because an 18 year old didn't make the show and was sent to the AHL, why don't you look at some not super negative players this has happened to and see that he can grow exponentially in the AHL (and there's a very short list of 18 year old AHLers). He could realistically be a Red Wing in 4 weeks and have put up over ppg in the A.

Plenty of good prospects get sent to juniors after they fail to make the NHL, plenty of them aren't hindered in their development.

 

[izlez]

Nail Yakupov put up 31 points in his first 48 NHL games. He wasn't considered a bust for a couple years.

You think it's an indictment on the future player because an 18 year old didn't make the show and was sent to the AHL, why don't you look at some not super negative players this has happened to and see that he can grow exponentially in the AHL (and there's a very short list of 18 year old AHLers). He could realistically be a Red Wing in 4 weeks and have put up over ppg in the A.

Plenty of good prospects get sent to juniors after they fail to make the NHL, plenty of them aren't hindered in their development.

I'm not at all worried that he didn't make the NHL. I always thought that the AHL would be best for his development and was always what I expected the team to do.

I'm worried, that I personally, don't like what I have seen out of him in the limited chances I've had.
And perhaps that we are looking at him to "grow exponentially", it's ok to have a tiny bit of concern?