Yzerman End of Season pressconference

[Frk It]

There's no question that losing a player like Walman and giving up a 2nd to do it was a hit to the rebuild. This team does not have a wealth of assets and they gave up a pick to get rid of one of their better Dmen.

But I'm not going to call it a bad move or a mistake because I don't know what the heck prompted it. I simply don't have that information.

Do you guys really not understand that distinction?

It's just crazy to me people are assuming there is (has to be) some behind the scenes stuff that somehow justifies it. As if people never make rash/stupid decisions.

Couldn't you say this for any bad move ever? Oh there was probably something that took place behind the scenes that justifies this.

I mean maybe there is, but the amount of benefit of the doubt given here is wild to me. Would we do this if anyone else was the GM? Imagine if Holland made this same move.

 

[SirloinUB]

It's just crazy to me people are assuming there is (has to be) some behind the scenes stuff that somehow justifies it. As if people never make rash/stupid decisions.

Couldn't you say this for any bad move ever? Oh there was probably something that took place behind the scenes that justifies this.

I mean maybe there is, but the amount of benefit of the doubt given here is wild to me. Would we do this if anyone else was the GM? Imagine if Holland made this same move.

Hasn't it been suggested by the team/yzerman that there was in fact more to it than what we see?

 

[Frk It]

Ummm hasn't it been suggested by the team, multiple times, that it was the case?

Do we have any details? And wouldn't it be subjective as far as if it justifies it?

And again, if he did something so bad we had to attach a 2nd round pick to move him, then just don't. And if he did something so heinous, no one would give up a 1st rounder for him within a calendar year.

If y'all really want to defend that move, I don't know what a bad move would possibly be.

 

[SirloinUB]

Do we have any details? And wouldn't it be subjective as far as if it justifies it?

And again, if he did something so bad we had to attach a 2nd round pick to move him, then just don't. And if he did something so heinous, no one would give up a 1st rounder for him within a calendar year.

If y'all really want to defend that move, I don't know what a bad move would possibly be.

I think it was bad asset management. I also think there is more to it than what we are privy to.

Both things can be true.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It's just crazy to me people are assuming there is (has to be) some behind the scenes stuff that somehow justifies it. As if people never make rash/stupid decisions.

Couldn't you say this for any bad move ever? Oh there was probably something that took place behind the scenes that justifies this.

I mean maybe there is, but the amount of benefit of the doubt given here is wild to me. Would we do this if anyone else was the GM? Imagine if Holland made this same move.

Oh good lord, now we're even back to "imagine if Holland did this."

In a previous post I listed all the reasons it seems like there was something behind the scenes, based on what we know about the situation. Do you not remember the Walman is injured. Now he's not injured, but "unavailable." This move was so head scratchingly out of character not just for Yzerman but any remotely competent GM.

Yet you seem intent on it just being a really simple and terrible mistake by Yzerman. Knock yourself out.

 

[Frk It]

Oh good lord, now we're even back to "imagine if Holland did this."

In a previous post I listed all the reasons it seems like there was something behind the scenes, based on what we know about the situation. Do you not remember the Walman is injured. Now he's not injured, but "unavailable." This move was so head scratchingly out of character not just for Yzerman but any remotely competent GM.

Yet you seem intent on it just being a really simple and terrible mistake by Yzerman. Knock yourself out.

I don't doubt there was something behind the scenes, but enough to justify what we did? You are going to have a hard time selling me on that.

And again, why the urgency? Just keep him and waive him at the start of the season.

If people think that was the only move we could have possibly made to clear up cap, I think they are reaching. Especially given Maatta was traded for a pick later that same year.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't doubt there was something behind the scenes, but enough to justify what we did? You are going to have a hard time selling me on that.

And again, why the urgency? Just keep him and waive him at the start of the season.

If people think that was the only move we could have possibly made to clear up cap, I think they are reaching. Especially given Maatta was traded for a pick later that same year.

I don't think it was made to clear cap. I think it was something specifically with Walman.

I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm just trying to explain the distinction people seem to be intentionally ignoring, which is that I and others are not saying this is a great move or "in yzerplan we blindly trust." It's that it's so friggin odd there was something going on. I hope it was worth it to move Walman at that cost, because it hurt the roster for sure. Maybe long term it helped the team by the message it sent to the other players, I dont know.

My half-assed theory, and this is the last I'll beat this dead horse, is it had something to do with how Walman handled his injury. Whether he was misleading about it, or not listening to the team on rehab. Something that kept him out of the lineup when they needed him and the team ended up missing the playoffs by a tiebreaker. Then Walman said something in his end of season interview that was the nail in the coffin and Yzerman was like "get this guy off the team now."

I agree about the urgency. I have this nagging feeling that even if Walman did something worth shipping him out, moving him right then was an overreaction and could've been done closer to the season.

But to think that a GM who has shown himself to be relatively competent for 15 years randomly gives up a 2nd to trade a good Dman on a rebuilding team without some other reason, is pretty nonsensical. Was that reason good enough? Who knows.

 

[dj4aces]

Yet you seem intent on it just being a really simple and terrible mistake by Yzerman. Knock yourself out.

Some people subscribe to "the easiest answer is the best answer" and are completely unwilling or unable to consider other answers, or even see if their own answer passes the smell test, It doesn't matter how much more logical those other answers are.

Look, guys, there's plenty to criticize Yzerman for. Hyperfocusing on Walman is pretty wild, like Gollum and the One Ring.

 

[SoupGuru]

Yzerman traded Walman because he needed to clear enough cap space to bring back Hossa AND Franzen

 

[stillwater]

Yzerman traded Walman because he needed to clear enough cap space to bring back Hossa AND Franzen

Don't forget extending Stephen Weiss and Franz Nielsen.

 

[norrisnick]

Some people subscribe to "the easiest answer is the best answer" and are completely unwilling or unable to consider other answers, or even see if their own answer passes the smell test, It doesn't matter how much more logical those other answers are.

Look, guys, there's plenty to criticize Yzerman for. Hyperfocusing on Walman is pretty wild, like Gollum and the One Ring.

And it's not even the easiest answer because you have to make the assumption that Yzerman is such a complete moron that doesn't understand that moving a 2nd if he doesn't have to is a bad idea. If Yzerman is this dumb, is everything else that isn't an unmitigated disaster just dumb luck?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It's just crazy to me people are assuming there is (has to be) some behind the scenes stuff that somehow justifies it. As if people never make rash/stupid decisions.

Couldn't you say this for any bad move ever? Oh there was probably something that took place behind the scenes that justifies this.

I mean maybe there is, but the amount of benefit of the doubt given here is wild to me. Would we do this if anyone else was the GM? Imagine if Holland made this same move.

Well, there’s a few things to consider;

Walman was basically booted off St. Louis’ minor league affiliate and loaned out to another AHL team.
Game Time Report - April 2018

I’m trying to find exactly which podcast it was on, but Walman’s former minor league teammate Jordan Schmaltz said that Walman was the only player he’s ever seen kicked out of a locker room, and that he was an asshole. This is substantiated on Missin Curfew and the article linked above mentioned Walman’s move.

I’ve seen unsubstantiated rumors on Reddit, YouTube comments, etc, that Walman and Kane had an argument that got pretty heated. They also mentioned Walman was vocally negative about the team, so he may have been viewed as a malcontent by management. Again, unsubstantiated rumor.

There was also something about a Jake Walman social media post while the team was getting their asses kicked in Florida. Apparently he posted something about “being on vacation” while the team played. The post was removed shortly after. I can imagine that pissed some people off.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. The Goodrow pickup by San Jose, a 2nd and Walman to San Jose, then the failed Trouba trade. But the other stuff around Walman makes it so easy to speculate bad off ice behavior. I think that’s just part of the reason why he was easy to single out in the move by management. And management from NYR, DET and SJS can’t say much because the move was done kind of cloak and dagger, so that adds to more speculation.

 

[norrisnick]

Well, there’s a few things to consider;

Walman was basically booted off St. Louis’ minor league affiliate and loaned out to another AHL team.
Game Time Report - April 2018

I’m trying to find exactly which podcast it was on, but Walman’s former minor league teammate Jordan Schmaltz said that Walman was the only player he’s ever seen kicked out of a locker room, and that he was an asshole. This is substantiated on Missin Curfew and the article linked above mentioned Walman’s move.

I’ve seen unsubstantiated rumors on Reddit, YouTube comments, etc, that Walman and Kane had an argument that got pretty heated. They also mentioned Walman was vocally negative about the team, so he may have been viewed as a malcontent by management. Again, unsubstantiated rumor.

There was also something about a Jake Walman social media post while the team was getting their asses kicked in Florida. Apparently he posted something about “being on vacation” while the team played. The post was removed shortly after. I can imagine that pissed some people off.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. The Goodrow pickup by San Jose, a 2nd and Walman to San Jose, then the failed Trouba trade. But the other stuff around Walman makes it so easy to speculate bad off ice behavior. I think that’s just part of the reason why he was easy to single out in the move by management. And management from NYR, DET and SJS can’t say much because the move was done kind of cloak and dagger, so that adds to more speculation.

Not to verify or refute anything you stated, but another interesting wrinkle is that Walman's #1 BFF in hockey is Jordan Kyrou. Now... Anyone remember any odd team/player interactions with him and the Blues a while back? These guys could very well be wired differently and not fit well in a team setting. Edmonton has no scruples whatsoever, as evident by their recent acquisitions, so them trading for him is almost another mark against him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Not to verify or refute anything you stated, but another interesting wrinkle is that Walman's #1 BFF in hockey is Jordan Kyrou. Now... Anyone remember any odd team/player interactions with him and the Blues a while back? These guys could very well be wired differently and not fit well in a team setting. Edmonton has no scruples whatsoever, as evident by their recent acquisitions, so them trading for him is almost another mark against him.

I don’t know enough about Kyrou to really comment. Is he also reported to be a locker room cancer?

 

[Frk It]

And it's not even the easiest answer because you have to make the assumption that Yzerman is such a complete moron that doesn't understand that moving a 2nd if he doesn't have to is a bad idea. If Yzerman is this dumb, is everything else that isn't an unmitigated disaster just dumb luck?

Smart people do dumb things sometimes. No one is saying Yzerman is dumb.

There's also a big difference between doesn't understand and doesn't care.

 

[norrisnick]

I don’t know enough about Kyrou to really comment. Is he also reported to be a locker room cancer?

He was asked about the coaching change when Berube was let go. And he responded "I've got no comment. He's not my coach anymore." He was mercilessly booed by the STL fans for a bit.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He was asked about the coaching change when Berube was let go. And he responded "I've got no comment. He's not my coach anymore." He was mercilessly booed by the STL fans for a bit.

Berube was coach of the minor league team Walman got booted from in 2018. Sounds like they may not have been a fan of the hard nosed coach archetype.

 

[SantosHalper]

Berube was coach of the minor league team Walman got booted from in 2018. Sounds like they may not have been a fan of the hard nosed coach archetype.

Like Berube, Fester had elite nose as well. Not many people can smoke while it rains without getting the cigarette wet.

 

[jkutswings]

Oh good lord, now we're even back to "imagine if Holland did this."

In a previous post I listed all the reasons it seems like there was something behind the scenes, based on what we know about the situation. Do you not remember the Walman is injured. Now he's not injured, but "unavailable." This move was so head scratchingly out of character not just for Yzerman but any remotely competent GM.

Yet you seem intent on it just being a really simple and terrible mistake by Yzerman. Knock yourself out.

I don't care if he slept with the families of half the front office, said their mommas wear army boots, and then spit on the statue of Gordie Howe. Just waive the guy and tell him to get lost.

THERE ARE NO POSSIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES where paying another team to take your player is good asset management. Period.

 

[RabidBadger]

I've never seen the movie "Groundhog Day" but I know the premise of it. I feel like I'm living it with the Walman talk. Literally, not one person has said anything that wasn't on the table months ago.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I've never seen the movie "Groundhog Day" but I know the premise of it. I feel like I'm living it with the Walman talk. Literally, not one person has said anything that wasn't on the table months ago.

Yeah, I just ignore it at this point. Not really sure what there is to say that hasn’t been said over and over and over again.

 

[RabidBadger]

Yeah, I just ignore it at this point. Not really sure what there is to say that hasn’t been said over and over and over again.

I try to ignore it. But at this point it's the Taylor Swift of our discussion topics: it's taken on a life of its own and even if it's not your thing you can't help but be exposed to it ad naseum. Walman popped up in the ****ing Max Plante thread! I can't go talk some UM Duluth hockey without seeing Walman's name?! Oy.

 

[Retire91]

It's Occam's razor for me. Sure any GM can make a bad move. But when you sum up Walman's talent and Yzerman's track record for recognizing talent it's just elementary to see that Walman was shipped out with prejudice. That was a send a message trade. If you want to hash up actual incompetence trades let's talk some Jarnkrok, Legwand or Chychrun trades.

 

[DanielMarois]

I've never seen the movie "Groundhog Day" but I know the premise of it. I feel like I'm living it with the Walman talk. Literally, not one person has said anything that wasn't on the table months ago.

Hmmm, let me try to change that. Let's start a hot take that the Oilers wanted him BECAUSE he has bad off-ice behavior because that's the culture they want with people like E.Kane, Perry, and Bowman.

 

[ricky0034]

I've never seen the movie "Groundhog Day" but I know the premise of it. I feel like I'm living it with the Walman talk. Literally, not one person has said anything that wasn't on the table months ago.

I mean that's just how things are with stupid trades, they get talked about a lot until the next stupid trade then most of that moves on to the new thing

it's not anything new with Walman