Yzerman End of Season pressconference

[The Zermanator]

If he did something so bad we had to attach a 2nd rounder to move him why would another team trade a 1st to add him to their team?

Maybe the dealbreaker for Detroit was not a dealbreaker for another team. Or maybe the dealbreaker was only a dealbreaker in Detroit but not for any other team. Impossible to say without knowing the details. Some teams might not have considered ever hiring Quenneville, for example, but clearly Anaheim felt differently.

And you're not exactly making an apples to apples comparison. Walman would have had more value putting up points with big minutes as the best dman on the worst team in the league in San Jose with 1 yr remaining on his deal than he had after two lacklustre seasons in Detroit with a consistent downward trend in performance from when he arrived to when he departed and with 2 yrs left on his deal, character issues notwithstanding. Plus contending teams like Edmonton place more value on NHL-ready players than late 1sts.

That’s where this whole “something must have happened to justify this” argument falls real flat for me.

I would guess Yzerman thought he had a more impactful free agency lined up and was too overeager on wanting to move on from Walman, with the Kiiskinen trade as something he could use to justify the move.

If I'm recalling correctly, Yzerman did indicate at the time that he was in fact freeing things up for some flexibility, so that's likely a big factor. But if it was as simple as that, why would he have made the cagey statements he did? He could have just said "we needed the cap and roster space and moving Jake was the only realistic option, we thank him for his time in Detroit and wish him the best". It's pretty clear from the statements that have been made, by Yzerman and others, along with the general non-reaction to Walman's departure from throughout the organization, players included, that some thing(s) happened that wore out his welcome.

And since you brought it up, I would say the Kiiskinen move does mitigate whatever negative can be associated with the Walman trade to a significant extent, considering it was a prospect upgrade with a free pick that was flipped with Walman. The level of attachment to a late 2nd pick we had for all of an hour has puzzled me since the day of the trade. As for whether Yzerman was "too" eager to move on from Walman, again that's not something we have enough information to determine.

At the end of the day, Walman was nothing special as a player. He had some brief moments in the spotlight, but there was also a whole lot of baggage that came with that. And that's only talking about his on-ice play. Then you add in all the smoke about there being a schism between him and the rest of the org. So Yzerman, with all the information available to him, felt he needed to be moved. And while he may have been rushed to some extent because of the rapidly approaching draft, he still managed to orchestrate a scenario where he could get rid of Walman without taking a step back with the team. He upgraded from Gibson to Kiiskinen and got a free pick to boot, and used that pick to move on from Walman free and clear with no retention.

But I've already spent far more time talking about this than I'd like, feels a bit hypocritical to be talking about it while saying it's talked about too much on here. My general point is that even with the least sympathetic interpretation of Yzerman's role here, it's such a non-issue in the grand scheme of his handling of this team that I'm flabbergasted that the debate has dragged on this long.

 

[dj4aces]

If he did something so bad we had to attach a 2nd rounder to move him why would another team trade a 1st to add him to their team?

That’s where this whole “something must have happened to justify this” argument falls real flat for me.

I would guess Yzerman thought he had a more impactful free agency lined up and was too overeager on wanting to move on from Walman, with the Kiiskinen trade as something he could use to justify the move.

The Sharks took a risk in adding him, under the quoted scenario. The Oilers felt the reward was greater than the risk,

It's a simple issue being made far more complex for no reason than to demand their curiosity be sated and drag this on until well after Walman retires.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

If he did something so bad we had to attach a 2nd rounder to move him why would another team trade a 1st to add him to their team?

That’s where this whole “something must have happened to justify this” argument falls real flat for me.

I would guess Yzerman thought he had a more impactful free agency lined up and was too overeager on wanting to move on from Walman, with the Kiiskinen trade as something he could use to justify the move.

The Oilers acquired Evander Kane, Corey Perry fresh off his contract being terminated for "unacceptable conduct" and their GM is Stan "depraved indifference" Bowman. They are also very much in win-now mode so it's not that surprising to me they would roll the dice on Walman. Whereas Yzerman is trying to build a team and culture from the ground up. And San Jose moved on quickly from Walman even though he was a good Dman for them.

I don't think we'll ever really know what went down but Walman doing something management hated seems like the most plausible scenario. If it were making room for Trouba but then that deal fell thru, it makes both Yzerman and Drury idiots for not doing due diligence. And I don't know if it's true but someone else stated that the Wings didn't have to be cap compliant when they moved Walman, so it doesn't really make sense for another player to be added either.

Plus if that were the case you'd think Yzerman would say something positive or at least neutral about Walman. "It's not about Jake. He's a good player and we thought we had a deal and didn't happen." Instead he won't even utter his name.

Then there's also Walman's strange injury status at the end of the season. He was on injured reserve, then available but not playing, but not really a healthy scratch? And in one interview after the trade Walman made a comment about maybe being to forthright in his post season meeting with management.

I liked Walman and even if I didn't, he was a good asset on a team without a lot of them. Paying to get him off the team was a big price to pay. I sure hope it wasn't because of some rift with Lalonde, because then Stevie backed the wrong horse.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The Oilers acquired Evander Kane, Corey Perry fresh off his contract being terminated for "unacceptable conduct" and their GM is Stan "depraved indifference" Bowman. They are also very much in win-now mode so it's not that surprising to me they would roll the dice on Walman. Whereas Yzerman is trying to build a team and culture from the ground up. And San Jose moved on quickly from Walman even though he was a good Dman for them.

I don't think we'll ever really know what went down but Walman doing something management hated seems like the most plausible scenario. If it were making room for Trouba but then that deal fell thru, it makes both Yzerman and Drury idiots for not doing due diligence. And I don't know if it's true but someone else stated that the Wings didn't have to be cap compliant when they moved Walman, so it doesn't really make sense for another player to be added either.

Plus if that were the case you'd think Yzerman would say something positive or at least neutral about Walman. "It's not about Jake. He's a good player and we thought we had a deal and didn't happen." Instead he won't even utter his name.

Then there's also Walman's strange injury status at the end of the season. He was on injured reserve, then available but not playing, but not really a healthy scratch? And in one interview after the trade Walman made a comment about maybe being to forthright in his post season meeting with management.

I liked Walman and even if I didn't, he was a good asset on a team without a lot of them. Paying to get him off the team was a big price to pay. I sure hope it wasn't because of some rift with Lalonde, because then Stevie backed the wrong horse.

It is time to just let Walman go. Something obviously happened that management (and/or his teammates) really did not like.

 

[lilidk]

It's not entitlement, it's accountability. The grace period for Yzerman is well over by now. He is nearing the hot seat, and the Walman trade fiasco is looking worse by the day. If Yzerman deemed it was detrimental to have Walman on the team(originally it was his salary) he needs to change his priorities because one of the best teams in the league traded a first round pick for him. It's hard to trust the Yzerplan right now. If he wasn't a Detroit legend, everyone would be calling for his removal

We don't know why Yzerman traded his 2/3 best defansman that way, pretty sure he has good reason.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

We don't know why Yzerman traded his 2/3 best defansman that way, pretty sure he has good reason.

Someone posted a YouTube video recently where a commenter mentioned Kane and Walman got into a locker room argument? Could be total BS but I wouldn’t be surprised if that played a part.

My theory is this:

• Management and/or coaching when Lalonde was around were unhappy with Walman who is a character. This puts him on the chopping block.
• Detroit was in on Trouba and they wanted to clear the cap to get him. So they trade Walman and a 2nd in the hopes that SJS broker a deal between Detroit and NYR. I think the 2nd we paid to move Walman was meant to be for retention purposes.
• Unbeknownst to Detroit, Trouba has a NMC he’s 100% not waiving until his wife’s residency is over in New York.
• Trouba says no to a trade to Detroit. We’re out a 2nd AND Walman because no takesies backsies. I would imagine Yzerman is also pissed at Drury at this point.
• Drury puts a gun to Trouba’s head in the season and says to waive his NTC or he’s getting waived and doesn’t get to choose where he goes.
• Anaheim trades a bag of pucks and Trouba goes there.

WHY nobody in Detroit knew about his wife’s residency and they attempted the trade before gauging Trouba’s interest in coming to Detroit? I have no clue, but I’m blaming Detroit’s incompetent pro scouting not doing their due diligence. I’m also blaming Drury for either misleading Yzerman or being stupid enough to not know about it himself. People on this f***ing forum knew about it for years and brought it up in every “trade Trouba” NYR thread.

It feels like some of us fans on this forum spend more time diving into information about the players and their contracts than the f***ing GMs that sign and manage them.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Someone posted a YouTube video recently where a commenter mentioned Kane and Walman got into a locker room argument? Could be total BS but I wouldn’t be surprised if that played a part.

My theory is this:

• Management and/or coaching when Lalonde was around were unhappy with Walman who is a character. This puts him on the chopping block.
• Detroit was in on Trouba and they wanted to clear the cap to get him. So they trade Walman and a 2nd in the hopes that SJS broker a deal between Detroit and NYR. I think the 2nd we paid to move Walman was meant to be for retention purposes.
• Unbeknownst to Detroit, Trouba has a NMC he’s 100% not waiving until his wife’s residency is over in New York.
• Trouba says no to a trade to Detroit. We’re out a 2nd AND Walman because no takesies backsies. I would imagine Yzerman is also pissed at Drury at this point.
• Drury puts a gun to Trouba’s head in the season and says to waive his NTC or he’s getting waived and doesn’t get to choose where he goes.
• Anaheim trades a bag of pucks and Trouba goes there.

WHY nobody in Detroit knew about his wife’s residency and they attempted the trade before gauging Trouba’s interest in coming to Detroit? I have no clue, but I’m blaming Detroit’s incompetent pro scouting not doing their due diligence. I’m also blaming Drury for either misleading Yzerman or being stupid enough to not know about it himself. People on this f***ing forum knew about it for years and brought it up in every “trade Trouba” NYR thread.

It feels like some of us fans on this forum spend more time diving into information about the players and their contracts than the f***ing GMs that sign and manage them.

That is plausible, but I think Walman was gone come hell or high water. They probably just wanted to incorporate it into the Trouba move if possible. Also, I think we were blocked ultimately with his NTC, not his NMC. I feel like he had until the opening of free agency to issue that list but I could be wrong.

I also want to know why SJS traded Walman for a glorified second round pick less than a year after acquiring him on a nice contract and with a productive season in his back pocket.

 

[stillwater]

Wings could win the next 3 Stanley Cups and people would still mention Yzerman's "mistake" on Walman without ever having a real clue about why he moved him.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Your cost/benefit analysis is unreliable if you're not including the reason they wanted to trade him in the calculation. An important detail that we're not aware of.

Here's a scenario:
- Walman got inappropriate with a teammate's wife (this is a total fabrication purely to illustrate a point, to make that clear). Nothing that crossed a line where punishment, contract cancellation, etc. would come into play, but enough that his continued presence on the team was untenable.
- At the time, after a very underwhelming season, the only way to move him was by attaching a 2nd rounder.

Do you still not do it? Perhaps Yzerman knew that it was a bad move, but did it anyway because he felt it was the best thing for the team in the totality of the circumstances at that particular point in time. We just. Do. Not. Know. But given how much draft capital he's brought into the team, and what he's done with it, I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt. That's why I never found the "Yzerman was just a bonehead that day" explanation compelling. It doesn't jive with his history. Based on that history, I find it much more likely that the trade was a necessary, if unpalatable, move because of information that we are not privy to.



As far as the L column, if the worst criticisms you can make about a GM are 3 relatively small potatoes and inconsequential moves, that's a pretty damn good GM.

We're definitely in agreement that his W column is much more substantial.

This level of cope is crazy. You are fabricating reasons to excuse Yzerman. Walman is clearly not so unplayable that a cup contender paid a first to add him. It was a bad trade. Period. I don’t really care because it doesn’t impact our future, that I agree with. But it is objectively a terrible trade.

It’s not that big of a deal that he made a bad trade. It ultimately wasn’t an important asset and the 2nd is not that relevant. Who cares.

That doesn’t change the fact that it was still a bad, bad trade.

 

[TKB]

Someone posted a YouTube video recently where a commenter mentioned Kane and Walman got into a locker room argument? Could be total BS but I wouldn’t be surprised if that played a part.

My theory is this:

• Management and/or coaching when Lalonde was around were unhappy with Walman who is a character. This puts him on the chopping block.
• Detroit was in on Trouba and they wanted to clear the cap to get him. So they trade Walman and a 2nd in the hopes that SJS broker a deal between Detroit and NYR. I think the 2nd we paid to move Walman was meant to be for retention purposes.
• Unbeknownst to Detroit, Trouba has a NMC he’s 100% not waiving until his wife’s residency is over in New York.
• Trouba says no to a trade to Detroit. We’re out a 2nd AND Walman because no takesies backsies. I would imagine Yzerman is also pissed at Drury at this point.
• Drury puts a gun to Trouba’s head in the season and says to waive his NTC or he’s getting waived and doesn’t get to choose where he goes.
• Anaheim trades a bag of pucks and Trouba goes there.

WHY nobody in Detroit knew about his wife’s residency and they attempted the trade before gauging Trouba’s interest in coming to Detroit? I have no clue, but I’m blaming Detroit’s incompetent pro scouting not doing their due diligence. I’m also blaming Drury for either misleading Yzerman or being stupid enough to not know about it himself. People on this f***ing forum knew about it for years and brought it up in every “trade Trouba” NYR thread.

It feels like some of us fans on this forum spend more time diving into information about the players and their contracts than the f***ing GMs that sign and manage them.

Didn't Trouba say he was never approached about waiving his NTC for Detroit?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Didn't Trouba say he was never approached about waiving his NTC for Detroit?

I can’t remember exactly but we know there were discussions between NYR and Detroit for Trouba that got pretty far.

Jacob Trouba Reportedly Placed Red Wings On No-Trade List, Blocking Deal To Detroit

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...ouba-said-no-to-trade-with-wings/75300402007/

 

[TKB]

I can’t remember exactly but we know there were discussions between NYR and Detroit for Trouba that got pretty far.

Jacob Trouba Reportedly Placed Red Wings On No-Trade List, Blocking Deal To Detroit

It's wierd because his public comments after the Duck's trade indicated that he would have liked to go to Detroit. I guess sementaics may be the key, if he was talking about the in season talks after putting Detroit on the list for the summer.

I can see him using that for leverage even if he wanted to come, but the public statement is pretty mis-leading if that is the case. He actually sounded as if he was pissed at Detroit.

 

[heyfolks]

If you just want a guy gone ASAP and view the 2nd round pick as "free" from the Gibson trade (which we can disagree on), it does make sense to just make the move rather than extend the process.

Also sends a stronger message to the player and the rest of the team, again though it's impossible to know if that's part of the equation or not.

In a friendly way, we do disagree.

If a message was intended, it didn't work.

 

[deca guard]

I felt horrible for this guy. What a terrible first game fate. That said, he should spend the off season with Ekblad. While I can't say it will help heal whatever ails his body, he will add muscle and related strength.

sure it took 24hrs but i eventually caught on to the illegal substance angle

 

[SCD]

We will never know if the "future considerations" had any value in the trade. Some have speculated that Anaheim was one of the teams with sufficient cap space to tender Seider an offer sheet. Maybe the deal included a gentleman's agreement that an offer sheet would not be forth coming. Obviously, the league would penalize both teams if any such agreement became public.

Point is we will never know all the details and that is fine. It won't kill the rebuild.

 

[The Zermanator]

This level of cope is crazy. You are fabricating reasons to excuse Yzerman. Walman is clearly not so unplayable that a cup contender paid a first to add him. It was a bad trade. Period. I don’t really care because it doesn’t impact our future, that I agree with. But it is objectively a terrible trade.

It’s not that big of a deal that he made a bad trade. It ultimately wasn’t an important asset and the 2nd is not that relevant. Who cares.

That doesn’t change the fact that it was still a bad, bad trade.

Has nothing to do with cope, there's no need to because, again, it's a nothingburger. And I'm not fabricating anything, merely speculating, which is what you're doing as well. Because again, it's pretty damn clear from the statements that have been made (and not made) that the issue extended beyond his play on the ice, as bad as it was by that point, and something happened behind the scenes. And we do not know even generally what that issue was, forget specifically. But whatever it was was clearly enough for Yzerman to want him out of town ASAP, even if that meant paying something to get it done. So without knowing what that unknown factor was, we can't say whether the trade was neutral, bad, or "objectively terrible".

I and others already specifically addressed why the circumstances were different when Edmonton acquired him, not going to repeat it.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Someone posted a YouTube video recently where a commenter mentioned Kane and Walman got into a locker room argument? Could be total BS but I wouldn’t be surprised if that played a part.

My theory is this:

• Management and/or coaching when Lalonde was around were unhappy with Walman who is a character. This puts him on the chopping block.
• Detroit was in on Trouba and they wanted to clear the cap to get him. So they trade Walman and a 2nd in the hopes that SJS broker a deal between Detroit and NYR. I think the 2nd we paid to move Walman was meant to be for retention purposes.
• Unbeknownst to Detroit, Trouba has a NMC he’s 100% not waiving until his wife’s residency is over in New York.
• Trouba says no to a trade to Detroit. We’re out a 2nd AND Walman because no takesies backsies. I would imagine Yzerman is also pissed at Drury at this point.
• Drury puts a gun to Trouba’s head in the season and says to waive his NTC or he’s getting waived and doesn’t get to choose where he goes.
• Anaheim trades a bag of pucks and Trouba goes there.

WHY nobody in Detroit knew about his wife’s residency and they attempted the trade before gauging Trouba’s interest in coming to Detroit? I have no clue, but I’m blaming Detroit’s incompetent pro scouting not doing their due diligence. I’m also blaming Drury for either misleading Yzerman or being stupid enough to not know about it himself. People on this f***ing forum knew about it for years and brought it up in every “trade Trouba” NYR thread.

It feels like some of us fans on this forum spend more time diving into information about the players and their contracts than the f***ing GMs that sign and manage them.

If I remember right the pandemic caused her residency to run over by a year. Then his agent effectively argued it still had a year because of the language in the contract providing protection during her residency. Trouba’s agent should gain a few clients. The Rangers interpreted it as a four or five year protection and it went a year longer.

Again you should know this and be checking with the league so not taking the excuse.

 

[norrisnick]

If he did something so bad we had to attach a 2nd rounder to move him why would another team trade a 1st to add him to their team?

That’s where this whole “something must have happened to justify this” argument falls real flat for me.

I would guess Yzerman thought he had a more impactful free agency lined up and was too overeager on wanting to move on from Walman, with the Kiiskinen trade as something he could use to justify the move.

Because SJ was in a position to pump n dump him with all the prime ice time. Same thing they did with EK65.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If I remember right the pandemic caused her residency to run over by a year. Then his agent effectively argued it still had a year because of the language in the contract providing protection during her residency. Trouba’s agent should gain a few clients. The Rangers interpreted it as a four or five year protection and it went a year longer.

Again you should know this and be checking with the league so not taking the excuse.

Also, adding further fuel to the fire that Walman being moved was a part of a bigger move; NYR waiving Goodrow, who was claimed by the sharks.

Goodrow was waived because he had a ntc that made dealing him difficult, and a cap hit that made him a negative asset. But clearing him out would have allowed NYR to retain on Trouba in any trade. At a low cap hit I’d take Goodrow on the 4th line.

So it could have been Walman + 2nd to NYR for Trouba and Goodrow in a roundabout way.

 

[DanielMarois]

Yzerman was a bit arrogant/defensive, but I hate it when reporters ask if someone's job is on the line, kind of an insulting thing to ask someone.

 

[Snuggs]

Wings could win the next 3 Stanley Cups and people would still mention Yzerman's "mistake" on Walman without ever having a real clue about why he moved him.

I doubt it.

The Teams bad and it's an unreasonable move anyway you want to reason it.

If they're winning Cups... Yzerman is god around here.

The wagon train of excuses for Walman is wild so is the "reasoning". Who cares why it's not a good move period. Even if Walman slept with the coach's wife. It's way over now too idk why it's got to be re-hashed every 15 mins someone mentions it was stupid.

Who here thinks it was smart move? If you do, you're just a Yzerman lunatic. You can understand why he made a move and still call it stupid/reactionary, cause it was. Walman had value. On top of that he could have just been waived, for nothing. It's mind numbing as to why value was giving to off Walman.

 

[ricky0034]

Wings could win the next 3 Stanley Cups and people would still mention Yzerman's "mistake" on Walman without ever having a real clue about why he moved him.

and he could trade all of Seider,Raymond,and Edvinsson for nothing with 7 firsts attached to them and people would still try and come up with reasons for it to avoid calling it a bad move

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

and he could trade all of Seider,Raymond,and Edvinsson for nothing with 7 firsts attached to them and people would still try and come up with reasons for it to avoid calling it a bad move

There's no question that losing a player like Walman and giving up a 2nd to do it was a hit to the rebuild. This team does not have a wealth of assets and they gave up a pick to get rid of one of their better Dmen.

But I'm not going to call it a bad move or a mistake because I don't know what the heck prompted it. I simply don't have that information.

Do you guys really not understand that distinction?

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Going out on a limb maybe, but Yzerman doing the Gibson for Kiiskinen and a 2nd. Which is the 2nd they tossed with Walman. Their thinking it's just a wash. Didn't lose our own 2nd just one we got in a prospect swap.

Hindsight on all this Walman got a 1st and such, I think they wanted to build the defense better but failed via trade and free agency.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Has nothing to do with cope, there's no need to because, again, it's a nothingburger. And I'm not fabricating anything, merely speculating, which is what you're doing as well. Because again, it's pretty damn clear from the statements that have been made (and not made) that the issue extended beyond his play on the ice, as bad as it was by that point, and something happened behind the scenes. And we do not know even generally what that issue was, forget specifically. But whatever it was was clearly enough for Yzerman to want him out of town ASAP, even if that meant paying something to get it done. So without knowing what that unknown factor was, we can't say whether the trade was neutral, bad, or "objectively terrible".

I and others already specifically addressed why the circumstances were different when Edmonton acquired him, not going to repeat it.

I’m not speculating whatsoever. The trade was terrible value for the player Walman was/is. Period. I’m not the one making up reasons to justify the value. I’m evaluating the trade based on the trade itself. You are the one talking about “unknown factors” which nobody knows anything about.

Again the trade doesn’t matter and it’s a nothing burger overall but it’s bad value and a bad trade. You won’t find a single fan of any other team that sees it otherwise.