Yzerman End of Season pressconference

[deca guard]

Whoa whoa whoa...we'll let it slide this time, but any choppy choppy reference needs to be referenced with Val Venis, not Seagal.

only tv ive watched since 90s when nwo took over has been nhl and first 5 seasons of southpark on dvd , so ive no idea of val venis . i referenced seagal cuz he looks looney af with the chinese hair-do

 

[Retire91]

Yzerman's free agents were plugs designed to be plugs that was always the plan. None of the contracts did long term damage during the write-off phase of wild card playoff chances. Only 3 of Yzerman's premier picks are on the team. Next year will be a whole lot different when more of our top kids hit the roster.

 

[Oddbob]

Rasmussen is the epitome of just there player who you almost never notice good or bad. That is not a compliment either. Totally and completely replaceable. Nothing he does is he considered to be good at.

Offence - pretty meh
Defence - average at best
Physical play - nearly non existent (especially given he is 6 foot 6)
Falling Down over nothing - Elite Level (So I guess I lied as he is great at this)

 

[Oddbob]

The bar for physicality on this team may be low but Rasmussen is consistently above it. Everyone is being judged by the same statistician as Ras yet they have all contributed less.

But for the sake of discussion who do you think are the bottom 6ers who are more physical than Rasmussen?

Do you actually watch this guy play? I can't recall even one of his "hits" being anything more than a light bump. Larkin has far fewer hits, but I consider him more physical than Ras.

 

[datsyukfan]

Yzerman's free agents were plugs designed to be plugs that was always the plan. None of the contracts did long term damage during the write-off phase of wild card playoff chances. Only 3 of Yzerman's premier picks are on the team. Next year will be a whole lot different when more of our top kids hit the roster.

So he purposely put us in the middle? Not good enough to make the playoffs, but not bad enough to get a good pick? Sounds like a bad GM move to me.

 

[Henkka]

So he purposely put us in the middle? Not good enough to make the playoffs, but not bad enough to get a good pick? Sounds like a bad GM move to me.

You have to be first in the middle, to grow on the top.

 

[datsyukfan]

You have to be first in the middle, to grow on the top.

You shouldn’t be stuck in the middle for 3+ years. My criticism with yzerman is that he started to make moves to get out of the rebuild and become more competitive, but he’s also never been aggressive enough with moving assets. So here we are stuck in the middle. Either suck so you can get elite talent or make good moves to get good players through trade. His FA decisions have been atrocious as well

 

[Run the Jewels]

You shouldn’t be stuck in the middle for 3+ years. My criticism with yzerman is that he started to make moves to get out of the rebuild and become more competitive, but he’s also never been aggressive enough with moving assets. So here we are stuck in the middle. Either suck so you can get elite talent or make good moves to get good players through trade. His FA decisions have been atrocious as well

Stuck in the middle? We got a rookie season of Kasper and a +1 season of Edvinsson where they both look great. Likely add MBN and ASP next season. I agree on trading some of our underperforming assets to address team needs but if Gavrikov hits free agency and we can sign him we'll have a top defense along with a 40g guy in DeBrincat and three guys capable of 20+ 5v5 goals in Larkin, Kasper and Raymond.

 

[SirloinUB]

You're answering your own question but then moving the goalposts and considering scoring and have now qualified it with "bottom 6" I'm assuming to exclude Kasper.

I don't even know what we're arguing about because I didn't single Ras out as the number one problem with this team, or even top 5. What I've said--repeatedly--is he is a disappointment. Because he is a gentle giant. At 26 years old and in his 6th season on the Wings, he is who he is. He has no sandpaper or tenacity to him in the way that even guys like Raymond do. To me that's not an outrageous statement. It's patently obvious.

He is most equipped to bring more physicality to this team yet he has been surpassed by a 183 lb rookie. And next season there's a decent chance he will be surpassed by Soderblom in both scoring and physicality.

Is he the only one who could be more physical? No. But when I look for players to step up, I'm gonna start with the 6'6" 220lb guy who is mostly in a defensive forward/puck retrieval role.

The other guys you listed, Compher, Tank, Berggren all need to do better in various areas. But they're not primarily expected to be playing physical. It's like watching a guy who has a wicked wrist shot but never shoots the puck.

Calling out Goal post moving is copout and simply not true. In my first and second posts on the topic I was talking about his production alongside the physicality he brings. I was always talking about overall contributions with some physicality being just one aspect of what he brings relative to his peers. Here are my first and second posts on the topic:

He has the 18th most points in that draft class. Even in hindsight, Rasmussen is a 1st rounder all day and possibly still goes top 15.

Again, he consistently is top 1 or 2 among forwards on this team in hits. I've said it before, if we want more physicality on this team there are several guys that should be on the chopping block ahead of Rasmussen.

There is a fairness to that point but it ultimately comes down to how you evaluate this season imo. It was the worst season of his career. Do you view it as what to expect moving forward or a down year he can bounce back from?

Prior to this season he has averaged 15 goals/35 points per 82 games while being the 1st or 2nd most consistently physical guy on the team. If he bounces back to that, I see a legit 3rd liner who also has some positional flexibility for when injuries occur.

This year, Ras lead all full time red wings in hits/60. Assuming he can bounce back to his previous form I look at roster slots like Motte, Smith/Veleno, Tarasenko/Berggren as bigger issues, even Soderblom to an extent (This one could go either way. Soder put up less hits and less proven offence but better per/game offence with a small sample size).

We should add offence and physicality to the bottom 6 but start at the bottom of the list, not the top (of the bottom 6)

I won't quote my 3rd post but I literally took everyone's hits, divided by 4 and added their points as an approximate combination of how much hitting and offensive production a guy brings.

This conversation was always about roster construction and Ras' fit relative to his peers. I'm sorry you hyper focused on one element of what he brings but there were zero goal posts moved.

This has always been within the context of roster construction, Ras isn't a top 6er. But hey, ill play along. Let's disregard that criteria.

So we have Kasper, who just arrived this year, as a more physical forward. That's it. Soderblom maybe? if you're all in on a 26 game sample size for a guy who has oft been criticized for not playing harder.

So we have one, maybe two forwards who can bring more physicality than the "gentile giant" after 4 years of team building.

As for Berggren, Tank, Compher, those guys struggled to out score while bringing less physicality (I thought Tarasenko got better as the year went on).

 

[Snuggs]

And Detroit made the playoffs for 25 straight years.

Do people really not understand what was sold to do that? Now we are living the aftermath.

The rebuild started from scratch in 2019 with one 18 year old.

Yeah, we're all clueless, keep explaining.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Calling out Goal post moving is copout and simply not true. In my first and second posts on the topic I was talking about his production alongside the physicality he brings. I was always talking about overall contributions with some physicality being just one aspect of what he brings relative to his peers. Here are my first and second posts on the topic:






I won't quote my 3rd post but I literally took everyone's hits, divided by 4 and added their points as an approximate combination of how much hitting and offensive production a guy brings.

This conversation was always about roster construction and Ras' fit relative to his peers. I'm sorry you hyper focused on one element of what he brings but there were zero goal posts moved.

This has always been within the context of roster construction, Ras isn't a top 6er. But hey, ill play along. Let's disregard that criteria.

So we have Kasper, who just arrived this year, as a more physical forward. That's it. Soderblom maybe? if you're all in on a 26 game sample size for a guy who has oft been criticized for not playing harder.

So we have one, maybe two forwards who can bring more physicality than the "gentile giant" after 4 years of team building.

As for Berggren, Tank, Compher, those guys struggled to out score while bringing less physicality (I thought Tarasenko got better as the year went on).

We're talking sideways at each other at this point.

This conversation was never about roster construction for me. I disagreed with a statement in one of your posts that Ras was the most physical player on the team. That's it. If your point was always that he is the most physical of the regular bottom 6 players on the team who also put up some points, than I misconstrued what you were saying and could've saved us both a helluva alot of typing.

Ras is soft. No amount of word salad will change that. And it's not a minority opinion.

I know, I know, most people thought the earth was flat and whatnot. Well rail on Pythagoras because I'm frankly not interested enough to keep beating this dead horse, or flat earth as the case may be.

 

[SirloinUB]

We're talking sideways at each other at this point.

This conversation was never about roster construction for me. I disagreed with a statement in one of your posts that Ras was the most physical player on the team. That's it. If your point was always that he is the most physical of the regular bottom 6 players on the team who also put up some points, than I misconstrued what you were saying and could've saved us both a helluva alot of typing.

Ras is soft. No amount of word salad will change that. And it's not a minority opinion.

I know, I know, most people thought the earth was flat and whatnot. Well rail on Pythagoras because I'm frankly not interested enough to keep beating this dead horse, or flat earth as the case may be.

Yea evidently I do think there was a bit of a disconnect in what we were discussing.

I do think over the years we have had anywhere from 8-11 guys up front who are more soft and less physical than Ras. I guess we can agree to disagree on that.

 

[stillwater]

They're all "less physical", solely by the measure of only the "metric' of "hits", and absolutely nothing else, mind you.

Is there a metric for "softness" as well?

If the guy with the most hits is the most physical ... it only goes to show that the guy with the least hits is the softest.

Remember to tune in next week, when we debate whether chocolate tastes better than shit, and whether or not there's any statistical data that backs up either side.

 

[norrisnick]

Ras isn't soft. His mortal sin is that he isn't as physical as people want him to be. That's it.

The problem that then arises is people hold that "not living up to what I want" against him and suddenly he gets labeled as the softest guy on the team if not the entire sport of hockey as a whole. As if Patrick Kane hasn't existed for decades now...

 

[Run the Jewels]

Ras isn't soft. His mortal sin is that he isn't as physical as people want him to be. That's it.

The problem that them arises is people hold that "not living up to what I want" against him and suddenly he gets labeled as the softest guy on the team if not the entire sport of hockey as a whole. As if Patrick Kane hasn't existed for decades now...

He seems to have one discernible talent: he's a capable PK'er. I have no idea why he wasn't used more frequently on the PK this past season, his minutes were cut in half.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Ras isn't soft. His mortal sin is that he isn't as physical as people want him to be. That's it.

The problem that them arises is people hold that "not living up to what I want" against him and suddenly he gets labeled as the softest guy on the team if not the entire sport of hockey as a whole. As if Patrick Kane hasn't existed for decades now...

I am guilty of it that for sure. Because he is a giant who doesn’t have a lot other great NHL attributes but doesn’t utilize well the one area he has a significant advantage.

If Ras put up numbers like Kane I would care a lot less about his lack of physicality.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

He seems to have one discernible talent: he's a capable PK'er. I have no idea why he wasn't used more frequently on the PK this past season, his minutes were cut in half.

A thousand times this. The PK was historically bad but they didn’t give more PK TOI back to the guys who were on it the previous season.

I do not understand.

 

[SirloinUB]

I am guilty of it that for sure. Because he is a giant who doesn’t have a lot other great NHL attributes but doesn’t utilize well the one area he has a significant advantage.

If Ras put up numbers like Kane I would care a lot less about his lack of physicality.

I'll readily admit he is not as good as he should be at protecting the puck with his larger frame. I often wonder if these tall hockey players can struggle with center of gravity which is why you can see them lose a battle to a smaller player.

 

[SCD]

Does anyone remember Todd Bertuzzi in his prime? He dominated puck control in the corners and single handily beat the Wings with his strength.

I was hoping Rasmussen had the potential to become such a player. Some things are not meant to be.

 

[datsyukfan]

Does anyone remember Todd Bertuzzi in his prime? He dominated puck control in the corners and single handily beat the Wings with his strength.

I was hoping Rasmussen had the potential to become such a player. Some things are not meant to be.

Bert had so much more talent not even close to reasonable to have expected that

 

[saska sault]

If Ras can get back to 30ish points it makes a big difference IMO... from 33 to 21 is a big drop off when you produce minimally already. Especially when the entire bottom 6 offers no support I think everyone kind of hoped he would help as the kind of veteran of that part of the line up and step up here and there. Some more talent in the bottom 6 wouldn't hurt either....

Should he play more physical? Yes. So should everyone else, its just frustrating like others said when your biggest attribute is your size as a massive human.

 

[SCD]

Bert had so much more talent not even close to reasonable to have expected that

Hind sight is 20/20.

Bertuzzi was drafted 23rd, so don't say his talent and ceiling was expected.

 

[Retire91]

So he purposely put us in the middle? Not good enough to make the playoffs, but not bad enough to get a good pick? Sounds like a bad GM move to me.

That could be said in bad faith in a vacuum, sure. The other way to look at it is the plug contracts insulated the kids from hard minutes while they develop and fall off the roster as the core matures enough to take over. Or Yzerplan for short.

 

[dj4aces]

Yzerman's free agents were plugs designed to be plugs that was always the plan. None of the contracts did long term damage during the write-off phase of wild card playoff chances. Only 3 of Yzerman's premier picks are on the team. Next year will be a whole lot different when more of our top kids hit the roster.

I largely agree with this, I also feel like a plug should be signed short-term. While some, like Tarasenko and Gustafsson, did receive short-term deals, I think we also expected Copp and Compher to be more than they have been. While Copp has found a role for himself, Compher leaves a lot to be desired. I think that goes back to the newbies in pro scouting that really should've had a mentor.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Ras isn't soft. His mortal sin is that he isn't as physical as people want him to be. That's it.

The problem that then arises is people hold that "not living up to what I want" against him and suddenly he gets labeled as the softest guy on the team if not the entire sport of hockey as a whole. As if Patrick Kane hasn't existed for decades now...

Rasmussen's biggest problem is that he's a top 10 pick.
This is why if he was on the market there would be a lot of interested teams. Without the baggage of not living up to draft position he's a valuable depth player on pretty much every team in the league.

He's a guy I would like to keep around unless we have a great reason to move him, such as Vancouver being in love with him and wanting him as a main piece in a Pettersson trade or something.