Yzerman End of Season pressconference

[stillwater]

Care to provide a better metric for evaluating how much physicality someone brings? Or am I supposed to just trust your feelings?

You could try to have some sense that the 4000 people here who don't agree Ras is a physical might just collectively be onto something. As opposed to say, the 2 who do.

I don't hate Ras. I don't particularly care where and when he was drafted. I can probably count the amount of times I've enjoyed something Ras has done (other than scoring a goal), enough to stand up from my seat at the LCA very few times. I certainly don't see him as a physical player. Almost no one does.

He's just kind of ... there.

Either you're right and everyone else is wrong (is this beginning to compare with the unconditional love a handful gave to Filip Zadina? "Oh, have you noticed Filip Zadina is now our best defensive forward ... yeah, he doesn't ever score, but he's sooo valuable defensively ... prove me wrong" bullshit!

 

[SirloinUB]

You could try to have some sense that the 4000 people here who don't agree Ras is a physical might just collectively be onto something. As opposed to say, the 2 who do.

I don't hate Ras. I don't particularly care where and when he was drafted. I can probably count the amount of times I've enjoyed something Ras has done (other than scoring a goal), enough to stand up from my seat at the LCA very few times. I certainly don't see him as a physical player. Almost no one does.

He's just kind of ... there.

Either you're right and everyone else is wrong (is this beginning to compare with the unconditional love a handful gave to Filip Zadina? "Oh, have you noticed Filip Zadina is now our best defensive forward ... yeah, he doesn't ever score, but he's sooo valuable defensively ... prove me wrong" bullshit!

The entire population of the world thought the earth was flat at one point.

If you all want to make a claim that contradicts what the data says, bring something to the table to back up your claim.

 

[stillwater]

The entire population of the world thought the earth was flat at one point.

If you all want to make a claim that contradicts what the data says, bring something to the table to back up your claim.

It doesn't any more.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Care to provide a better metric for evaluating how much physicality someone brings? Or am I supposed to just trust your feelings?

The Kronwall hit on Havlat = 1 hit. Hudler bumping someone in the corner = 1 hit.

Do you really need a hit statistic to determine who the most physical players in the NHL are?

Like many things about hockey, it's not all quantifiable into reliable binary statistics so it comes down to opinion based on watching the games.

If your position is that Ras is the second most physical forward on the team because he's second in total hits this season, then knock yourself out. Ras is apparently a 35 point player because he almost got there once and 2nd most physical forward on the team because the hits column says so.

I've repeatedly made my position really clear. The team desperately needs to be more physical and harder to play against. Ras is one of the biggest players on the roster (only Elmer is bigger I think?) but plays extremely soft for his size. So one of the players best equipped to provide a physical presence for the Wings doesn't really do it much.

Is it a huge problem now? No, but if this team is looking to compete in the playoffs he either needs to be much more physical or he needs to be replaced by someone who is.

 

[dj4aces]

The entire population of the world thought the earth was flat at one point.

If you all want to make a claim that contradicts what the data says, bring something to the table to back up your claim.

There's still a society that believes the Earth is flat, just like there's still a small group of people who think Ras is a physical force on the ice. Ras is a serviceable fourth liner on a playoff team. Unfortunately, he's been forced into a middle-6 role that really doesn't work out so well. I don't necessarily have a problem with Ras, I simply have a problem with how he's being used in lieu of having better players in those positions.

 

[stillwater]

Joe Veleno had 2 less "hits" than Ras in 2024-2025.

Big-time physical player.

 

[norrisnick]

Have you read a single one of my posts? Pretty sure every one on the topic says something along the lines of "I disagree with him being the whipping boy" or "he's useful" or "I'm not calling him a monster"

A guy that is going to be around 15 goals and 30+ points in your bottom 6 while being top twoish among forwards in hits is a useful piece.

You're arguing with the same sorts of posters that want to ship out Larkin for whatever, because they're mad he's not good enough to carry the Wings. Again, focusing on the wrong end of the lineup first...

 

[jkutswings]

Is it a huge problem now? No, but if this team is looking to be compete in the playoffs he either needs to be much more physical or he needs to be replaced by someone who is.

My hope is that Ras continues to be useful enough to be part of a trade package. I agree that there are far worse players on the roster, but those guys need to just hit the trebuchet, whereas a guy like Ras can be grouped with other assets to return a good player.

 

[SirloinUB]

It doesn't any more.

There's still a society that believes the Earth is flat, just like there's still a small group of people who think Ras is a physical force on the ice. Ras is a serviceable fourth liner on a playoff team. Unfortunately, he's been forced into a middle-6 role that really doesn't work out so well. I don't necessarily have a problem with Ras, I simply have a problem with how he's being used in lieu of having better players in those positions.

I've never called him a "force" and have multiple times said, "I'm not claiming he is a monster." This is called Gaslighting.

He is still the most consistently physical Red Wings forward.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

View attachment 1030226



I've never called him a "force" and have multiple times said, "I'm not claiming he is a monster." This is called Gaslighting.

He is still the most consistently physical Red Wings forward.

The issue is you repeatedly misinterpreting the data.

All the data says is that by whatever a statistician defines as a hit, Ras has more of them than the rest of the Wings. Yet you are taking that binary stat and making a claim about the concept of "physicality."

That's bad statistical analysis.

 

[SirloinUB]

The issue is you repeatedly misinterpreting the data.

All the data says is that by whatever a statistician defines as a hit, Ras has more of them than the rest of the Wings. Yet you are taking that binary stat and making a claim about the concept of "physicality."

That's bad statistical analysis.

The bar for physicality on this team may be low but Rasmussen is consistently above it. Everyone is being judged by the same statistician as Ras yet they have all contributed less.

But for the sake of discussion who do you think are the bottom 6ers who are more physical than Rasmussen?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Everyone is being judged by the same statistician and contributing less.

But for the sake of discussion who do you think are the bottom 6ers who are more physical than Rasmussen?

You're still apparently missing the flaw in your interpretation. They're all being judged by the same statistician, but you are using one binary metric to make a claim about "physicality."

For example, this season Seider had 212 hits and Zadorov had 219 hits. So by your statistical reasoning they are virtually equivalent in physicality.

But I don't think most people would agree that is actually the case.

 

[ricky0034]

The issue is you repeatedly misinterpreting the data.

All the data says is that by whatever a statistician defines as a hit, Ras has more of them than the rest of the Wings. Yet you are taking that binary stat and making a claim about the concept of "physicality."

That's bad statistical analysis.

case in point even just the difference between having different people recording hits

Rasmussen and Kasper hits at home this year:

Rasmussen: 77
Kasper: 69


Rasmussen and Kasper hits on the road this year:

Kasper: 87
Rasmussen: 64

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

case in point even just the difference between having different people recording hits

Rasmussen and Kasper hits at home this year:

Rasmussen: 77
Kasper: 69


Rasmussen and Kasper hits on the road this year:

Kasper: 87
Rasmussen: 64

Good point.

It's old now but some years ago there was an article on how where someone played had a major impact on stats like takeaways and giveaways. And not to say it was always home cooking. Stat keepers in some barns were simply more generous in recording stats. I'd guess it was similar for hits.

I've wasted far too much time here on Ras. I don't hate the guy. He just needs to be more physical or eventually be replaced by someone who is.

 

[Winger98]

I don't think it's wrong to say Ras is one of our most physical forwards, and where you would rank him on the team becomes pretty subjective. I also don't think it's wrong to say that he's not nearly physical enough, and that it's hard to say he's a "physical" player in the sense most of us would like to see it defined on the ice.

I'm mostly in @jkutswings camp of hoping we can package him for something good. But I'm also not shipping him off for nothing and don't have an issue with him on the team this fall.

 

[ricky0034]

Good point.

It's old now but some years ago there was an article on how where someone played had a major impact on stats like takeaways and giveaways. And not to say it was always home cooking. Stat keepers in some barns were simply more generous in recording stats. I'd guess it was similar for hits.

I've wasted far too much time here on Ras. I don't hate the guy. He just needs to be more physical or eventually be replaced by someone who is.

bit of a tangent and I don't have any sort of inside knowledge on this stuff or anything so I could be off base and overestimating what teams have but honestly hitting is one of those areas where I feel like NHL teams probably have much more useful data than anything available publicly

for example there's no reason a teams analytics department shouldn't be able to theoretically track actually useful stuff like how often a player has contact that results in a change in which team has possession of the puck 5 seconds later or whatever

even more advanced stuff like how taking a hit from a specific player affects a players effectiveness in their next shift should be theoretically possible to put numbers to although there might be too much noise for that to be terribly useful

 

[norrisnick]

You're still apparently missing the flaw in your interpretation. They're all being judged by the same statistician, but you are using one binary metric to make a claim about "physicality."

For example, this season Seider had 212 hits and Zadorov had 219 hits. So by your statistical reasoning they are virtually equivalent in physicality.

But I don't think most people would agree that is actually the case.

Unlike the sparkling clarity of hyper-fixating on Rasmussen when arguing to increase the physicality of the bottom half of the forward lineup.

To put it into terms that might make sense... that would be like complaining about Chiarot because our defense isn't physical enough. Not Holl or Gustafsson. Chiarot is the problem. Do you see how that doesn't make a whole lot of sense?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

In what universe has the hit rate in the 2nd round ever been 70%?

The one that shows 70% of second rounders in 19 and 20 have played NHL games. And probably 50% look like they’re going to be regulars that play 200+ games.

 

[SirloinUB]

You're still apparently missing the flaw in your interpretation. They're all being judged by the same statistician, but you are using one binary metric to make a claim about "physicality."

For example, this season Seider had 212 hits and Zadorov had 219 hits. So by your statistical reasoning they are virtually equivalent in physicality.

But I don't think most people would agree that is actually the case.

The point is that everyone (forwards) do less and that’s what you’re ignoring.

In fact, the post you replied to I asked who these more physical players are in our bottom 6 and you ignored that question.

So I ask again, what red wings forwards in our bottom 6 have consistently brought more physicality that ras?

If we want more from that group there is other guys you should be looking at ahead of Ras.

Unless we punt 4 or 5 forwards it’s ineffective to chase more physicality in our lineup by shipping out the guy who brings that more than the rest.

I don’t view him amongst the most physically imposing players in the league. I don’t view him as significant offensive guy.

What I do think is that He can chip in offensively and brings more physicality than anyone else we’ve been trotting out there so I don’t agree with making him a whipping boy.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

What I don't understand is why did we even sign stop gaps in the first place? Why does Yzerman even need that in the first place? What's wrong with sucking very bad? That's how you get generational talent?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The point is that everyone (forwards) do less and that’s what you’re ignoring.

In fact, the post you replied to I asked who these more physical players are in our bottom 6 and you ignored that question.

So I ask again, what red wings forwards in our bottom 6 have consistently brought more physicality that ras?

If we want more from that group there is other guys you should be looking at ahead of Ras.

Unless we punt 4 or 5 forwards it’s ineffective to chase more physicality in our lineup by shipping out the guy who brings that more than the rest.

I don’t view him amongst the most physically imposing players in the league. I don’t view him as significant offensive guy.

What I do think is that He can chip in offensively and brings more physicality than anyone else we’ve been trotting out there so I don’t agree with making him a whipping boy.

yeah if you're really going to keep claiming he brings more physicality than anyone else, there's really no point in going on because we are apparently watching different players.

 

[SirloinUB]

yeah if you're really going to keep claiming he brings more physicality than anyone else, there's really no point in going on because we are apparently watching different players.

I generally like a lot of your posting but This is the second time you replied to one of my posts that directly asked you “which bottom 6 forwards are bringing more physicality?” without answering the question.


Look at our bottom 6 man

Motte, smith, Tarasenko, compher and berggren are not more physical than Rasmussen.

Fischer was but he also brought significantly less offence than Ras.

Watson, Shine? Sure for AHLers who combined for 4 points in 22 games.

Kasper? Like I said, it’s great to have a guy who brings more physicality. That’s one guy and we don’t even want him in the bottom 6.

I stand by him being the most physical full time bottom 6 Red Wing.

I want to add that “most physical forward” is a bit of a reduction from my larger opinion. As I said, I’m not argue he’s some beast. Yes I think he brings more physicality than the rest of our mainstays of Motte/Veleno/C. Smith/Tarasenko/Compher/Berggren but more than that, he’s been a more useful player than that lot.

In my opinion It’s crazy to look at that group and single out Rasmussen, in any capacity.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I generally like a lot of your posting but This is the second time you replied to one of my posts that directly asked you “which bottom 6 forwards are bringing more physicality?” without answering the question.


Look at our bottom 6 man

Motte, smith, Tarasenko, compher and berggren are not more physical than Rasmussen.

Fischer was but he also brought significantly less offence than Ras.

Watson, Shine? Sure for AHLers who combined for 4 points in 22 games.

Kasper? Like I said, it’s great to have a guy who brings more physicality. That’s one guy and we don’t even want him in the bottom 6.

I stand by him being the most physical full time bottom 6 Red Wing.

I want to add that “most physical forward” is a bit of a reduction from my larger opinion. As I said, I’m not argue he’s some beast. Yes I think he brings more physicality than the rest of our mainstays of Motte/Veleno/C. Smith/Tarasenko/Compher/Berggren but more than that, he’s been a more useful player than that lot.

In my opinion It’s crazy to look at that group and single out Rasmussen, in any capacity.

You're answering your own question but then moving the goalposts and considering scoring and have now qualified it with "bottom 6" I'm assuming to exclude Kasper.

I don't even know what we're arguing about because I didn't single Ras out as the number one problem with this team, or even top 5. What I've said--repeatedly--is he is a disappointment. Because he is a gentle giant. At 26 years old and in his 6th season on the Wings, he is who he is. He has no sandpaper or tenacity to him in the way that even guys like Raymond do. To me that's not an outrageous statement. It's patently obvious.

He is most equipped to bring more physicality to this team yet he has been surpassed by a 183 lb rookie. And next season there's a decent chance he will be surpassed by Soderblom in both scoring and physicality.

Is he the only one who could be more physical? No. But when I look for players to step up, I'm gonna start with the 6'6" 220lb guy who is mostly in a defensive forward/puck retrieval role.

The other guys you listed, Compher, Tank, Berggren all need to do better in various areas. But they're not primarily expected to be playing physical. It's like watching a guy who has a wicked wrist shot but never shoots the puck.

 

[deca guard]

fans making the mistake that big means a guy can be physical . dont matter how big if a person uncoordinated like obviously raz is as displayed by him falling alot . ive always said forget skating practice get him working out with gymnast doing floor routines . or send him china , he do choppy chop with steven seagal then he bad boy

 

[Winger98]

Whoa whoa whoa...we'll let it slide this time, but any choppy choppy reference needs to be referenced with Val Venis, not Seagal.