OT: Youth hockey guidance

[Therick67]

I'm the head coach of my sons Squirt B2 team. This is his second year in youth hockey, and my first as a head coach. I was an assistant last season on his Squirt C team.

We've played two games so far. The first we won 6-0 with one of our kids getting 4 goals and 2 assists. Very impressive. Our last game on Saturday of this past weekend we lost a close one 4-3 with our team thoroughly outplaying the completion the whole game it seemed. Only to make a few mistakes that ended up in our net. I feel we learned more from the close defeat than we did form the blow out win. The kid that had all the points in the first game had nothing in the second. My son was all broken up about this loss as he was playing defense this game(his request), and was on the ice for the goal that put the other team ahead. He played a great game on defense, but thought the last goal was his fault. It wasn't. It was a full team goal against, in that everyone made a mistake on this particular play.

I'm still trying to get a real feel for the team, and where I want each kid to play, but I also want to be able to move them anywhere, and everywhere as I feel that makes someone a better player. We had many occasions last season where we were short handed because of sickness, or kids just not being able to make a game. Couple that with a penalty or two, and you can see that little Johnny may have to play defense even if he doesn't want to.

I will say my parents this year have been good about not bothering me with too much crap, but they are poor communicators with emails, etc. As a coach there is nothing more frustrating than parents that don't communicate. Also the early morning practices and games are a problem for even the coaches, not just the parents. Have some compassion for the volunteers as it is a lot of responsibility, and time. I know I don't make the schedule, so complaining to a coach about a schedule is really not going to get anywhere. we don't want to get up at 4 AM anymore than you do.

One really strange thing happened during the game on Saturday. One of the players from the other team was lining up for a face off in front of our bench. Have you ever had that weird feeling that someone is staring at you? Well I had it, and looked over at this kid giving me a serial killer stare that went right through me. I have no idea what it was all about, but it was creepy. I mentioned it to my son, and said it was number 9. My son said that was the same kid that laughed when my son fell down on a play, and also was saying you suck in the hand shake line. I'll tell you that I told my kids, and parents that I wouldn't stand for our kids doing anything like that , and I would bench a kid for disrespecting an opponent or official. There is no place for that in society, or hockey in my opinion. I hope I don't have to bench a kid for that this season, and I truly doubt I will with this group.

I made a few compliments to opposing players last season as an assistant from the bench, and had a kid from my team look at me, and say I can't say that to the opponent. I looked right at him, and said I can, and I will. Good hockey is good hockey no matter what color sweater you're wearing. Hockey is a family, regardless of what color you wear in my opinion.

So far I love my experience as a coach, but it is a long season, and I'm sure I will hate parts of it along the way.

Did you hold a parents meeting? We do. We lay everything out to them and let them ask any questions they may have.

Knock on wood, we've had really good parents and I think those meetings help a lot.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Oh yeah I've had parent meetings. One with only 4 people showing up, and the other was a good one with 12 of the 14 parents showing up. There are a lot of emails that I send out that seem to just go to the ether. Then I get a question that was covered in an email in the locker room. That is frustrating as heck! Thankfully I know a few of the parents from last year, and they are great, and know how to conduct themselves, but a few of the parents I don't know yet are real pains.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

The blowouts either way, aren't fun. I almost rather lose a close game 3-2, then win 15-2. The kids get nothing out of that type of game on either team.

I think that most coaches feel this way. I chalk that last game up to not knowing the opponent and still trying to figure out where we are as a team. Playing an Independent schedule can be difficult until you have an idea where your team slots in. I'm sure our team manager will try to adjust the schedule later in the year based on what happens over the next 3-4 weeks. We are playing a couple of good A level mixed Bantam teams on Sunday, so those games should be much tougher.

Nobody wins playing in blowout games.

 

[Therick67]

Oh yeah I've had parent meetings. One with only 4 people showing up, and the other was a good one with 12 of the 14 parents showing up. There are a lot of emails that I send out that seem to just go to the ether. Then I get a question that was covered in an email in the locker room. That is frustrating as heck! Thankfully I know a few of the parents from last year, and they are great, and know how to conduct themselves, but a few of the parents I don't know yet are real pains.

These people need to understand, you work, have a family and volunteer.

Some teams will have a 'team mom' or someone who deals with the parents, so you don't have to on every matter. Maybe find a parent that's helpful, and ask them to help out. That's how I got started, now I'm on two boards and help coach two teams.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Update on the latest dealings with coaching youth hockey.

Two Fridays ago I was cornered by the father of the kid that I've had issues with all season. This was just before getting on the ice for a team practice. One in which I ended up missing half of due to this idiot. He wanted a brief word with me that turned into a full out berating session. He said that I was misusing his kid the last three games on the 3rd line. I mentioned that I hadn't realized he was on the 3rd line the last three games, and that I will do my best to make sure it doesn't happen again. Also I told him that there really isn't a 3rd line like you would think in the traditional sense like a professional team. The kids all get the same amount of ice time within reason, and that I don't play favorites. He said I do in fact play favorites, and that his kid has been struggling lately because I had him playing with "the kids that suck". He says that the coaches kids get preferential treatment, and that most of them suck, but didn't name names. I knew he was talking about my kid, and another coaches kid. Absolutely unacceptable! He then told me the kid doesn't want to play on the team anymore because of his treatment on the 3rd line, and playing with the wrong kids.

Shortly before talking with the father a friend of mine who was on the ice before us had asked me about a rumor he had heard that the kid had quit the team, and joined a private hockey club. I said it was news to me, and that the kid was over in the locker room getting ready to practice with us. Come to find out through others the father did have the kid try out for another program, but wasn't accepted.

I keep good records of each game, and the lines I set up. I looked back over the last three games, and he was on the 3rd group for the last two, not all three. It is something I like to avoid, but I missed it. During the conversation I had mentioned that the last few games were against the weakest teams in our division. So I had spoken with my assistants about changing things up a lot for those games to put kids in positions and lines that I normally wouldn't. The father mentioned later that I slipped up by admitting that to him. What? I don't think this guy gets it. By the way we won those games, and hadn't lost since September 24th(our 2nd game of the season). This past weekend was against the toughest two teams we have played all season, so I had mentioned that the line up would be more like it had been in the past.

We played a tough game on Saturday and won 4-1 with the kid getting two goals, and winning the player of the game award that we give out. All was well, or so I thought. I knew the game on Super Bowl Sunday would be the tougher of the two games on the weekend. I had one of my assistants make the line up for the Sunday game, and told the kids that if we didn't play our best game today we would lose as this team lost to us by only one goal the last time we played, and that we were lucky to win.

The game on Sunday went the way I thought it would. Very close at first then opened up with us letting up a few really strange goals. The arena we were playing in is sort of unique in that the stands are higher yet right up against the players benches so the fans can look right in over us on the bench. Part way through the father of the kid yells over to get my attention to the score board. He says "hey the scoreboard is wrong, it's 3-2 not 4-2". He was wrong it was indeed 4-2. Around the 3rd period I'm standing on the bench as I usually do, and had my back against the glass when all of a sudden I feel a hand grab my shoulder. I turned around to see angry dad fuming in my face, and say "we need to talk, this is ridiculous!!" I turned around immediately, and asked my assistant coaches if they saw that? two of them had, and was wondering what the problem was. I had no idea, but clearly it had to be because we were losing, and that we were clearly using his kid the wrong way, or not enough.

We ended up losing the game 6-4, and to be honest I think it was a good thing for us. In the locker room I told the kids that we played poorly, but that I believe in them, and we would have another chance at them next Sunday. I also raised my voice to tell them all that I was disappointed in what I heard on the bench. The kid of angry dad was grumbling on the bench around the time his father had grabbed my shoulder. He said that he hated this team, and that we all sucked! Also mentioned that we lost because of one particular kid, and that he couldn't wait to quit this team to play for the other team he tried out for. I told them all without singling out the one kid that we win , and lose as a team, not because of one individual. Shortly after I let the parents in the locker room, and the father and son slithered out like the snakes they are.

My son said that during the hand shake line at centre ice that the kid was saying the other team players suck, and wouldn't shake hands. I didn't see it, but I trust my son, and believe it fully.

I've contacted the director of the squirt program, and other powers that be, and told them in no uncertain terms that the fathers behavior is wildly unacceptable, and that I feel he should be dealt with. Ultimately I would love to tell him to go F himself, but that is probably not the right thing to do. It would feel great though. I/we have since had meeting with the leaders of the program. Angry dad was apparently talking out of both sides of his mouth. First he said he didn't reach over the glass, but rather just got my attention with his voice. Then he said "when I tapped the coach on the shoulder to get his attention". Well which one was it? I know, and it was neither of those. The board told me they can't kick the kid out due to his parents actions, but also didn't ban the dad which was what I wanted. Now we as a coaching staff has to monitor ice time closer. I give up, with these type of people. We roll three lines, or at times run 3 wingers each side with 2 centres if the numbers make that the only viable option. The family wants to finish the season even though the kid has tried out for another private program. They also threatened lawsuits due to the way their kid has been treated. Absolute BS!!


What is wrong with people? Should I do what I want to do, and tell the guy to berkeley off, or take the high road? Only 5 games left, and then playoffs. We're 21-2-3 by the way, on the season.

 

[Coach Parker]

I know a lot of you have exposure to youth hockey and wanted to get some information.

My son is 8, and playing in a small travel hockey program. They got smoked twice these past few weekends by more than 15 goals per game. I noticed the coaches of the other team still running their top guys out and letting them skate around everyone even when the game was out of hand. Seems common, and I guess what else are they going to do. Also, I'm not an advocate for the participation medals, and think that losing team sports is a good life lesson.

Just curious what my expectations should be for my son. I think his team is decent, but obviously not up to the level of many of the bigger travel programs in the Boston area. He loves the game, and I want to foster that and not have him get discouraged at this age by getting trounced.

I guess they try to figure out a parity schedule, so maybe that will provide better level of competition, and more fun games for them. Our program director hasn't talked to the parents at all, so I really don't know what to expect.

Just thought I'd see if anyone has any good input to give me more information going forward.

Hey,

On that team, you as a parent should be pushing 100% for practices to be completely focused on skill development and nothing else. You should be able to see tangible goals in place during practice that focus specifically on your son's individual skills and their progression.

For example:

Monday's practice:

Skating Development:

- Outside edge
- Shoulder movement
- Pivot transition to backwards skating

Stick-Handling Development:

- Puck recovery off defensive zone clear along the boards.
- Tighter control of puck near feet progressing to backhand.
- Puck protection off boards to forehand.

Shooting Development:

- Weight transition before a shot.
- Receiving puck from pass in feet to transition to shot.
- Basic shooting.

This is just an example of specific skills your son and his teammates should focus on with a team that is struggling as you suggest in games.

They will end the year as better players because the coach focused on these skills and you walk away knowing your son developed something this year that offsets the tough losses.

Do not let a coach preach systems in this situation; it is the death of hockey at this age. It is tempting to teach them a system to counter the oppnents' skill but then at the end of the year your son learned how to lose and where to stand on the ice in the loss.

If you go to your next meeting or email the coach with the simple request to focus on skill development you will find the coaching and progression of your son will be a much more positive experience for all and you can hold that coach to a degree of accountability that isn't related to the numbers on the scoreboard.

 

[Therick67]

Take the high road. This guy is everything that is wrong with youth sports, he's also infecting his kid.

It's ok for parents to have an issue, or ask the coach questions - but he's not doing it the right way.

My guess is, after these 5 games you won't have to deal with him again.

 

[Coach Parker]

I feel like I could write a book at this point. Son is a First year bantam.

Best advice.....find a coach that focuses on development, skills and skating. Any guy trying to teach systems to mites and squirts are doing a disservice. Stay away from summer tournaments for the most part. Total waste of time and money. Sure do one or two for fun if you want but time is better spent on skills and more importantly playing lax or baseball.

I have met some of my best friends and great people in youth hockey and many more who are selfish, political know it all a-holes....who really don't know anything.

Admittedly I have been the worst hockey parent and at times the best (or at least good). I am lucky my son loves the sport because I likely could have ruined for him. Also, please note that all of the above I mentioned I probably did wrong too so learn from my mistakes.

Most of all NEVER let some coach or anyone else tell you it matters how well your kid plays in a tournament as a mite or if they "have to do this tournament " or "have to go to this camp". It's all about the $$$$$.

When it comes time to be noticed as long as your kid can play they won't care what he did in Squirts.

Great advice.

 

[Coach Parker]

Update on the latest dealings with coaching youth hockey.

Two Fridays ago I was cornered by the father of the kid that I've had issues with all season. This was just before getting on the ice for a team practice. One in which I ended up missing half of due to this idiot. He wanted a brief word with me that turned into a full out berating session. He said that I was misusing his kid the last three games on the 3rd line. I mentioned that I hadn't realized he was on the 3rd line the last three games, and that I will do my best to make sure it doesn't happen again. Also I told him that there really isn't a 3rd line like you would think in the traditional sense like a professional team. The kids all get the same amount of ice time within reason, and that I don't play favorites. He said I do in fact play favorites, and that his kid has been struggling lately because I had him playing with "the kids that suck". He says that the coaches kids get preferential treatment, and that most of them suck, but didn't name names. I knew he was talking about my kid, and another coaches kid. Absolutely unacceptable! He then told me the kid doesn't want to play on the team anymore because of his treatment on the 3rd line, and playing with the wrong kids.

Shortly before talking with the father a friend of mine who was on the ice before us had asked me about a rumor he had heard that the kid had quit the team, and joined a private hockey club. I said it was news to me, and that the kid was over in the locker room getting ready to practice with us. Come to find out through others the father did have the kid try out for another program, but wasn't accepted.

I keep good records of each game, and the lines I set up. I looked back over the last three games, and he was on the 3rd group for the last two, not all three. It is something I like to avoid, but I missed it. During the conversation I had mentioned that the last few games were against the weakest teams in our division. So I had spoken with my assistants about changing things up a lot for those games to put kids in positions and lines that I normally wouldn't. The father mentioned later that I slipped up by admitting that to him. What? I don't think this guy gets it. By the way we won those games, and hadn't lost since September 24th(our 2nd game of the season). This past weekend was against the toughest two teams we have played all season, so I had mentioned that the line up would be more like it had been in the past.

We played a tough game on Saturday and won 4-1 with the kid getting two goals, and winning the player of the game award that we give out. All was well, or so I thought. I knew the game on Super Bowl Sunday would be the tougher of the two games on the weekend. I had one of my assistants make the line up for the Sunday game, and told the kids that if we didn't play our best game today we would lose as this team lost to us by only one goal the last time we played, and that we were lucky to win.

The game on Sunday went the way I thought it would. Very close at first then opened up with us letting up a few really strange goals. The arena we were playing in is sort of unique in that the stands are higher yet right up against the players benches so the fans can look right in over us on the bench. Part way through the father of the kid yells over to get my attention to the score board. He says "hey the scoreboard is wrong, it's 3-2 not 4-2". He was wrong it was indeed 4-2. Around the 3rd period I'm standing on the bench as I usually do, and had my back against the glass when all of a sudden I feel a hand grab my shoulder. I turned around to see angry dad fuming in my face, and say "we need to talk, this is ridiculous!!" I turned around immediately, and asked my assistant coaches if they saw that? two of them had, and was wondering what the problem was. I had no idea, but clearly it had to be because we were losing, and that we were clearly using his kid the wrong way, or not enough.

We ended up losing the game 6-4, and to be honest I think it was a good thing for us. In the locker room I told the kids that we played poorly, but that I believe in them, and we would have another chance at them next Sunday. I also raised my voice to tell them all that I was disappointed in what I heard on the bench. The kid of angry dad was grumbling on the bench around the time his father had grabbed my shoulder. He said that he hated this team, and that we all sucked! Also mentioned that we lost because of one particular kid, and that he couldn't wait to quit this team to play for the other team he tried out for. I told them all without singling out the one kid that we win , and lose as a team, not because of one individual. Shortly after I let the parents in the locker room, and the father and son slithered out like the snakes they are.

My son said that during the hand shake line at centre ice that the kid was saying the other team players suck, and wouldn't shake hands. I didn't see it, but I trust my son, and believe it fully.

I've contacted the director of the squirt program, and other powers that be, and told them in no uncertain terms that the fathers behavior is wildly unacceptable, and that I feel he should be dealt with. Ultimately I would love to tell him to go F himself, but that is probably not the right thing to do. It would feel great though. I/we have since had meeting with the leaders of the program. Angry dad was apparently talking out of both sides of his mouth. First he said he didn't reach over the glass, but rather just got my attention with his voice. Then he said "when I tapped the coach on the shoulder to get his attention". Well which one was it? I know, and it was neither of those. The board told me they can't kick the kid out due to his parents actions, but also didn't ban the dad which was what I wanted. Now we as a coaching staff has to monitor ice time closer. I give up, with these type of people. We roll three lines, or at times run 3 wingers each side with 2 centres if the numbers make that the only viable option. The family wants to finish the season even though the kid has tried out for another private program. They also threatened lawsuits due to the way their kid has been treated. Absolute BS!!


What is wrong with people? Should I do what I want to do, and tell the guy to berkeley off, or take the high road? Only 5 games left, and then playoffs. We're 21-2-3 by the way, on the season.

Incredibly tough situation they put you in and I have had my share as well. I was also a younger coach with a VERY strong assistant coaching staff (in the NHL now) brought in specifically to deal with skill development.

Huge helping advice I recieved in my first year that will help with this:

When a parent approaches you to talk to them ask them for two things:

1. A time to chat specifically in the future.
2. The specific issue so you can plan ahead and give them the best answers.

This allowed me to avoid MANY confrontations with parents right before practice, before a game or after a game and let cooler heads prevail. It also allowed me to consult with my assistant coaches and manager. Finally, when the conversation was derailed by their emotional investment I could stop them and get them back on track to the point in hand.

When you coach against BWC and NSWC on a yearly basis the entire association looks at your record and also you have to understand winter clubs fill some of these kids with so much garbage promises that parents make terrible decisions for their kids.

I hope this tidbit that Rick Bowness himself (not my assistant coach obviously but who gave me this pointer one conversation) gave will help you avoid this situation from ever happening again and remove the unnecessary stress great volunteers get from selfish parents.

 

[Coach Parker]

Take the high road. This guy is everything that is wrong with youth sports, he's also infecting his kid.

It's ok for parents to have an issue, or ask the coach questions - but he's not doing it the right way.

My guess is, after these 5 games you won't have to deal with him again.

I remember one year the players themselves would record on their phone their Dad's yelling at them or complaining about the team/coaches/result on the car ride home and then they would play it back in the dressingroom for the other boys.

Not only did they dread the drive home, but it also started to widen the gap between parent and child right as their teenage years started.

I actually chatted with one of the players a couple weeks ago at his game and he said he doesn't talk much to his Dad anymore...

 

[Therick67]

I remember one year the players themselves would record on their phone their Dad's yelling at them or complaining about the team/coaches/result on the car ride home and then they would play it back in the dressingroom for the other boys.

Not only did they dread the drive home, but it also started to widen the gap between parent and child right as their teenage years started.

I actually chatted with one of the players a couple weeks ago at his game and he said he doesn't talk much to his Dad anymore...

As an assistant coach and father, I rarely talk much about the game on the way to or from. I keep the coaching in the dressing room before and after the game or on the bench if things need to be covered.

Kids need a positive approach, not hearing what they aren't doing right.

I found myself talking too much and it was causing him to get frustrated with me. Since I've stopped - things have improved 1000%.

The game needs to be fun, or it's not worth the commitment involved.

 

[Coach Parker]

As an assistant coach and father, I rarely talk much about the game on the way to or from. I keep the coaching in the dressing room before and after the game or on the bench if things need to be covered.

Kids need a positive approach, not hearing what they aren't doing right.

I found myself talking too much and it was causing him to get frustrated with me. Since I've stopped - things have improved 1000%.

The game needs to be fun, or it's not worth the commitment involved.

Cheers to you for realizing this costly error and making changes not only in your routine, but also with the relationship with your child.

It's hard to leave the game on the ice.

24 hour e-mail rule also applied after a game for our entire team. I didn't get one e-mail or call until the next night minimum. Cooler heads prevailed.

Still, in one year my 'Coaching' folder on GMail finished with over 3300 emails in it. (That included all meetings, tournaments, parents, players, league, scouts, etc, but gives you an idea of the amount of work coaches put in and the amount of off-ice antics come into play.)

 

[Therick67]

Cheers to you for realizing this costly error and making changes not only in your routine, but also with the relationship with your child.

It's hard to leave the game on the ice.

24 hour e-mail rule also applied after a game for our entire team. I didn't get one e-mail or call until the next night minimum. Cooler heads prevailed.

Still, in one year my 'Coaching' folder on GMail finished with over 3300 emails in it. (That included all meetings, tournaments, parents, players, league, scouts, etc, but gives you an idea of the amount of work coaches put in and the amount of off-ice antics come into play.)

Thanks.

The last thing I wanted to do was ruin the game for him, but that's exactly what I was doing. Thankfully, with the help of my wife - I came to this realization quickly.

Sometimes the hardest part of being a parent, is knowing when to leave things alone and ****.