You're the Coach: Line changes

[Man of Principles]

If you're planning to break up V-H-P right now, you're crazy. But down the stretch if the chemistry deteriorates, I'd do:

Vanek-Grigorenko-Foligno
Ennis-Hodgson-Pominville
Ott-Hecht-Stafford
Kaleta/Gerbe-McCormick-Scott

if Leino is healthy:

Vanek-Grigorenko-Foligno
Ennis-Hodgson-Pominville
Leino-Ott-Stafford
Hecht-McCormick-Kaleta/Scott

 

[CarlWinslow]

OK, let me preface this by saying I no longer believe Ennis has to be groomed as a top two C. I think Hodgson and Grigs project to those spots with someone like Girgensons ideally fitting in at 3 down the road.

With that in mind:

Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville
Ennis - Grigorenko - Foligno
Hecht - Ott- Stafford
Scott/Gerbe - McCormick/Ellis - Kaleta

 

[CarlWinslow]

I've watched every game. Hodgson is bad at faceoffs. He has a terrible shot. He is weak defensively. and he was developed (propped up) last season with the Sedins and Kesler before he bottomed out here. Suddenly he looks good playing with Vanek.

Vanek makes centres look good, remember Luke Adam?

He was bad at faceoffs. He is improving. Why not let him? I never understood this mentality that when a guy isn't good at something, the answer is to prevent him from doing it so he never gets better.

He isn't weak defensively. He has made some mistakes and he needs to improve but the potential is clearly there and he seems to be getting better.

A terrible shot???

Propped up??? You watch every Canuck game too I'm guessing?

 

[punkr0x]

For the most part I think the lines are okay. I would like to see Gerbe in a more offensive role. But what I would really like Lindy to do is manage the zone starts and faceoffs much differently. Most of our centers are terrible at faceoffs, and we have some wingers who are at least decent at them.

VHP - Pominville takes faceoffs.
FES - Ennis I guess? Maybe someone can teach Foligno to win faceoffs.
Gerbe Grigorenko Ott - Ott takes FO.
Hecht (Scott) McCormick Ellis (Kaleta) - McCormick takes FO.

Line 2 should mainly get offensive zone starts. Line 3 I'm okay with in either zone, and the first line should get as much ice time as they can handle. Line 4 should see limited ice time unless some fighting is needed.

I'm okay with trying to get the young centers some experience, but having Cody Hodgson be our #1 faceoff guy has resulted in the Sabres being the worst faceoff team in the league, and that causes real puck possesion problems. Let the experienced guys win some draws and work the young guys in gradually.

 

[wunderpanda]

Maybe I should word it differently. I have nothing against CoHo, his defense and faceoffs need work, like all of the Sabres centres. He is a very good distributor of the puck.

My thinking is this; Grigorenko is not and will never be a 3rd line grinder, he wasn't trained that way, he was trained and has played as a top line centre in an offensive role. At the same time, he needs to be compensated for because of his inexperience at this level. Playing with Ott and Hecht isn't doing him any good, and Ennis is not looking like a centre by any definition.

So putting Grigorenko with Vanek and Pomer would protect his lapses and give him offensive minded people to play with. CoHo on the 2nd line could help get Ennis and Stafford going, they are at the tweener spot where they don't need the veteran protection but can't cover for Grigs inexperience yet.

 

[start winnin]

Maybe I should word it differently. I have nothing against CoHo, his defense and faceoffs need work, like all of the Sabres centres. He is a very good distributor of the puck.

My thinking is this; Grigorenko is not and will never be a 3rd line grinder, he wasn't trained that way, he was trained and has played as a top line centre in an offensive role. At the same time, he needs to be compensated for because of his inexperience at this level. Playing with Ott and Hecht isn't doing him any good, and Ennis is not looking like a centre by any definition.

So putting Grigorenko with Vanek and Pomer would protect his lapses and give him offensive minded people to play with. CoHo on the 2nd line could help get Ennis and Stafford going, they are at the tweener spot where they don't need the veteran protection but can't cover for Grigs inexperience yet.

Putting Grigorenko with Vanek and Pommer will also put Grigorenko against top checkers which he clearly is not ready for. If the secondary seriously dries up, I would give it a try like you said but he's not ready to play against the top defensive forwards and defenders in the NHL.

 

[Takeo]

I got Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville, Foligno-Grigorenko-Stafford, and Gerbe with Ott. But then I'm stumped because Ennis and Hecht don't belong in the lineup.

 

[THE GURU]

vanek - hodgson - pommer
stafford - ennis - ott
foligno - grigorenko - gerbe
hecht - mccormick -kaleta

I think gerbe needs to be given more of a chance to earn some time. I am not sure about his health but we need his speed and fistiness in a more scoring role. I think ott can calm down that second line a bit more as well. If kaleta comes back we need to sit scott for a game or two and have the ability to roll 4 lines more and keep legs fresh. We have enough fighters with ott/foligno/mccormick that scott isn't truely needed every night. Also hecht and kaleta when healthy give you solid pk time from the 4th line.

Defense is just a tire fire until we get some bodies back.

 

[RattleYourSabre]

I got Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville, Foligno-Grigorenko-Stafford, and Gerbe with Ott. But then I'm stumped because Ennis and Hecht don't belong in the lineup.

I think (and this is ONLY my opinion) saying Ennis doesn't belong in the lineup is a bit harsh. I agree that he hasn't been what many of us hoped he'd be, but I think he could definitely play 3rd/4th center and be at worst mediocre for us.

Gerbe - Ennis - Ott wouldn't be a terrible line. But I definitely see why people are sour on him.

 

[THE GURU]

I think (and this is ONLY my opinion) saying Ennis doesn't belong in the lineup is a bit harsh. I agree that he hasn't been what many of us hoped he'd be, but I think he could definitely play 3rd/4th center and be at worst mediocre for us.

Gerbe - Ennis - Ott wouldn't be a terrible line. But I definitely see why people are sour on him.

ennis would be a beast if the nhl was played on olympic rinks. I think he is going to be fine. He needs to start forcing the puck a little more towards the net.

 

[RattleYourSabre]

ennis would be a beast if the nhl was played on olympic rinks. I think he is going to be fine. He needs to start forcing the puck a little more towards the net.

Yeah. He's definitely got to be better. But it's tough to sour on him too much when his linemates haven't been exactly playing out of their minds. Right now it's a team thing. That doesn't excuse his play at all. But it's tough to be too down on him when he's shown flashes of very positive play.

 

[Myllz]

ennis would be a beast if the nhl was played on olympic rinks. I think he is going to be fine. He needs to start forcing the puck a little more towards the net.

They need to stop playing him at center. I get the need due to a lack of any other centers on the roster, but he doesn't belong there. Put him back on the wing and he'll be fine.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

They need to stop playing him at center. I get the need due to a lack of any other centers on the roster, but he doesn't belong there. Put him back on the wing and he'll be fine.

I don't have issues with him playing center as long as they shift his defensive zone responsibilities. I'd rather have him carry the puck and have space in the neutral / offensive zone.

 

[RazielMoshman]

The only thing I'd say about the lineup is whether this season is a bust or not I want to see Grigorenko in a position to show off his ability. Not make it to easy with Pom and Van but see what he can make out of Stafford, Ennis or Foligno.

Please no more Hecht!

 

[vcv]

I don't necessarily disagree with this logic. So take what I'm about to say as "The Devil's Advocate" approach:

Couldn't it be argued that the three guys who are playing PPG hockey right now are good enough to succeed apart from another? Pominville is a solid hockey player who's skills may help provide Grigorenko much needed leadership. Vanek/Hodgson could likely play on the first line without missing Pominville TOO much due to their chemistry with one another. Sure, Pommer would be missed a bit on that first line. He's too good not to miss.

I wouldn't pull Hodgson away from Vanek. He's still young, too, and needs Vanek's play for confidence reasons. Pommer, though, is an established vet who has skills. I think he could go down and help a bit.

Again, I'm not sure I'd break up VHP, either. Just trying to carry a discussion.

Succeed? Absolutely. At the same level they are together? Not a chance.

Have you seen the way they pass the puck to each other? Do you think anyone else on the team would be ready for those passes?

 

[RattleYourSabre]

Succeed? Absolutely. At the same level they are together? Not a chance.

Have you seen the way they pass the puck to each other? Do you think anyone else on the team would be ready for those passes?

You seemed to have missed the part that wasn't bolded in my quote:

Couldn't it be argued that the three guys who are playing PPG hockey right now are good enough to succeed apart from another? Pominville is a solid hockey player who's skills may help provide Grigorenko much needed leadership. Vanek/Hodgson could likely play on the first line without missing Pominville TOO much due to their chemistry with one another. Sure, Pommer would be missed a bit on that first line. He's too good not to miss.

As I noted, there would certainly be a drop off. And again, I'm not necessarily for breaking that line up. I just think it's something that should at the very least be pondered.