Value of: your team buying out Hornqvist (a la WSH/COL with Orpik)

[kerrabria]

As good as many of the Panthers contracts are, they're still gonna have a tough cap situation this summer.

• Yandle's buyout shooting up to $5.3m next season
• Darling's $1.1m buyout still on the books
  
• Bobrovsky being like $5m overpaid
• Hornqvist being overpaid

There's nothing we can do about the first three, so something has to give with Hornqvist. He has one year left at a $5.3m cap hit, due the same amount of money in real dollars, all in salary (no signing bonuses). His buyout would cost the team $3.5m in real dollars and come with a $1.7m cap hit for two years.

Hornqvist is a luxury on our fourth line, and he wears the A. Nobody wants him to leave. Which brings me to the way Washington and Colorado colluded on Orpik in 2017. Orpik was in the final year of a contract that carried a $5.5m cap hit, $4.5m in salary (no signing bonus) and a buyout penalty of $2.5m then $1.5m. Washington traded Orpik to Colorado along with Grubauer in return for a 2nd Round Pick. Colorado bought out Orpik, and he immediately re-signed with the Caps at a reduced cap hit.

Who is interested in being our Colorado? And at what price?

Click to read more...

 

[CupInSIX]

Didn't the league issue a warning for teams not to do that ever again? I'm surprised they allowed him to be re-signed in the first place.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Your 1st rounder. He wouldn’t be able to come back however.

 

[Avs44]

Didn't the league issue a warning for teams not to do that ever again? I'm surprised they allowed him to be re-signed in the first place.

Yeah, the Caps GM said the league questioned them about it. And this:

In his 31 Thoughts column published on Friday, Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman reported the league had a few “concerns” regarding how the Capitals reacquired Orpik.

According to Friedman, “A couple of weeks ago, the league notified the individual clubs that it reviewed the situation, and explained its concerns. Teams viewed the memo as a warning, that if the NHL could make an example of someone, it would.”

So…it won’t happen again.

 

[seanlinden]

As others have mentioned, he likely wouldn't be allowed to re-sign. The only reason that Orpik was is because they found no evidence that there was any contemplation of that prior to the deal; and then sent a memo to all the teams saying not to do this.

That being said, this does seem like something right up Arizona's alley.... maybe Seattle?

Heck, Arizona could probably flip him next deadline for some positive value with retention.

 

[Mike Jones]

Heck, Arizona could probably flip him next deadline for some positive value with retention.

This would be the best approach for Arizona. There's nothing wrong with acquiring a couple of decent picks this way.

I'd suggest that this would be something Seattle should be all over but Francis doesn't seem interested in these types of deals.

 

[Reality Czech]

What is it with Florida teams and cap circumvention? The no state tax isn't a big enough advantage for you?

 

[SEALBound]

If you pay to send him out and a team is willing to do it, of what matter is it if he's bought out? Or are you suggesting you still want him back but just at the reduce cost?

Seems to me you'd be better off just finding someone to take him?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think that Hornqvist would just have to be traded.

Now he had a M NTC with 8 teams.

Does he make it difficult for Florida to trade him?
Who knows. He could put teams that would take him for a draft pick on his list and say I want to be on a winning team.

Teams that could take on a Hornqvist like Arizona or Seattle. It will be very interesting.

 

[Blackjack]

What is it with Florida teams and cap circumvention? The no state tax isn't a big enough advantage for you?

It's extremely funny that after what Tampa pulled, a team wanting to give up assets to get out of a bad contract, and then sign that same player to a better contract fair and square is what the league cannot abide.

$9.5 million player miraculously healed and 100% healthy for game 1 of the playoffs? Oh yeah, sure man, no problem.

 

[cwede]

Cap relief is expensive; there won't be any easy way out,
unless maybe another contender wants Hornqvist for their own depth

with only one year left, Florida can probably get by til it is fulfilled
he is a proven playoff contributor, and attrition in playoffs is a common scenario

I suspect Panthers front office may not be thinking like OP

 

[Reality Czech]

It's extremely funny that after what Tampa pulled, a team wanting to give up assets to get out of a bad contract, and then sign that same player to a better contract fair and square is what the league cannot abide.

$9.5 million player miraculously healed and 100% healthy for game 1 of the playoffs? Oh yeah, sure man, no problem.

I won't argue with that! And since this is just a fan proposal, I guess I won't hold the Panthers directly responsible for it.

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, the Caps GM said the league questioned them about it. And this:


So…it won’t happen again.

Yeah, while the initial move was well played, that hole has been closed by the league. No one will be doing that.

 

[Blackjack]

Yeah, while the initial move was well played, that hole has been closed by the league. No one will be doing that.

Weird that it wasn't cap circumvention the first time it was done, but it would be the next time. Oh well, guess I'm just not smart enough to keep up with the galaxy brains in the NHL!

 

[Gurglesons]

Probably be cheaper to trade him with retention.

 

[FerrisRox]

Weird that it wasn't cap circumvention the first time it was done, but it would be the next time. Oh well, guess I'm just not smart enough to keep up with the galaxy brains in the NHL!

Nothing weird about it.

It wasn't against the rules when it happened the first time. After it happened, the league informed the member teams that this sort of thing, moving forward, would not be allowed.

 

[Blackjack]

Nothing weird about it.

It wasn't against the rules when it happened the first time. After it happened, the league informed the member teams that this sort of thing, moving forward, would not be allowed.

Was it cap circumvention when it was done the first time?

 

[Chainshot]

Weird that it wasn't cap circumvention the first time it was done, but it would be the next time. Oh well, guess I'm just not smart enough to keep up with the galaxy brains in the NHL!

The constantly come up with things after the fact to stop others from doing things. Remember how contract structuring was done at the beginning of the 2010's? And then they introduced recapture penalties and teams were either hanging onto a player or buying them out. They are an embodiment of permissive parenting that sets boundaries after the fact.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I read that as the league strongly advises against it, but can't really do anything about it if it's above board. The year after, Calgary bought out Stone and proceeded to sign him for the league minimum 2 months later, for an overall smaller number than he would have earned on the original contract.

If there's any hint of a prior agreement, the league will clobber a club. There's precedent for a 1st round penalty (Kovalchuk contract, Arizona's pre-combine testing).

 

[mouser]

As good as many of the Panthers contracts are, they're still gonna have a tough cap situation this summer.

• Yandle's buyout shooting up to $5.3m next season
• Darling's $1.1m buyout still on the books
  
• Bobrovsky being like $5m overpaid
• Hornqvist being overpaid

There's nothing we can do about the first three, so something has to give with Hornqvist. He has one year left at a $5.3m cap hit, due the same amount of money in real dollars, all in salary (no signing bonuses). His buyout would cost the team $3.5m in real dollars and come with a $1.7m cap hit for two years.

Hornqvist is a luxury on our fourth line, and he wears the A. Nobody wants him to leave. Which brings me to the way Washington and Colorado colluded on Orpik in 2017. Orpik was in the final year of a contract that carried a $5.5m cap hit, $4.5m in salary (no signing bonus) and a buyout penalty of $2.5m then $1.5m. Washington traded Orpik to Colorado along with Grubauer in return for a 2nd Round Pick. Colorado bought out Orpik, and he immediately re-signed with the Caps at a reduced cap hit.

Who is interested in being our Colorado? And at what price?

Orpik did not immediately re-sign.

 

[Hasbro]

I wonder if Minnesota tried to make that happen with Parise and Suter.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The Sharks should be interested in a deal here depending on what you're trying to entice us with to take Hornqvist. Give us a quality prospect or draft pick and take either Bonino or Nieto or Pederson and there's probably something to be done there.

 

[Djp]

I wonder if Minnesota tried to make that happen with Parise and Suter.

They weren’t t anywhere near 1 yr left. Doing that costed a fortune.

 

[Djp]

If Florida retains they can’t reacquire him.

 

[kerrabria]

Probably be cheaper to trade him with retention.

His buyout is cheaper than trading him at 50% retention.
And the purpose of this is that we want to keep him, just at a reduced cap.