Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[schuelma24]

Prospect pool refers to those individuals who are not on Detroit’s main roster and have yet to make it.

Difference maker in this context referred to bonafide top of the lineup players in prospect pool. Who do you see as such?

ASP for one.

Both goalie prospects are potentially as well (though obviously goalies are a lot more luck in their projections).

 

[stillwater]

Yep. The same crowd that bitched about the Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Kasper picks the day they were selected. Any pick not in the NHL the year they were drafted is a bust. It's called DEVELOPMENT for a reason.

It's really no surprise coming from posters that bitched for 7 pages that we took Keenan Draper with a 7th round pick. Who was so valuable that was picked after him to be so indignant about! They could have selected Yzerman's pet sitter with that selection and I wouldn't give a shit.

As an aside; Dennis Thompson and Keith Moon are my favorite rock drummers. Neil is the greatest though. I dig the avatar.

Agree with all of this.

Imagine Charlie Watts trying to play a Rush show? How about even just one Rush song. Forget about it ...

Loved Moony too ...

 

[RabidBadger]

Correct, it is called development. But I don’t think most people saw Kasper as a legit 2C a year or two ago. Raymond always had high expectations. Seider, I will 100% give you. That was an amazing selection. Though Seider looked really good after being drafted.

Well, everything you just said confirms my point about lack of patience and knee jerk reactions since I stated people were bitching about said picks the day they were drafted. Kasper was shat upon before graduating high school, let alone his draft day.

 

[Run the Jewels]

They could have selected Yzerman's pet sitter with that selection and I wouldn't give a shit.

Don't you dare talk s**t about Yzerman's pet sitter. Vastly underrated hockey IQ there.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Yeah, you get those in the lottery.

disagree, those are just more the given ones. Plenty of difference makers end up getting picked outside the top 5. Just not by us lol.

 

[Oddbob]

disagree, those are just more the given ones. Plenty of difference makers end up getting picked outside the top 5. Just not by us lol.

Seider is definitely a difference maker. You are blind if you can't see that. Larkin was also drafted 15th overall.

 

[jkutswings]

Seider is definitely a difference maker. You are blind if you can't see that. Larkin was also drafted 15th overall.

Seider CAN be a difference maker. Which is greatly hampered by the awful partners he's had to babysit on the blue line.

Get even an average defensive player and it's a chance to unlock another level of Mo. Not sure why it's been so difficult for Detroit to pursue that.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

disagree, those are just more the given ones. Plenty of difference makers end up getting picked outside the top 5. Just not by us lol.

Since 2019 I’d like you to name notable misses by Detroit in the 1st round.

2nd? There’s a few, I’ll give you that. I don’t like our drafting in round 2 from 2019 to 2023 but I think Augustine becomes a player. And we’ve got AlJo.
3rd and beyond? Aside from Protas, Nikishin and Laferierre, what late round misses are there that we f***ed up by not drafting?

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

If Gus keeps shitting the bed, he won't be there for long. Ghost was way better.

I don't see that as a problem, like i mentioned before Tampa had Hedman, McDonagh and Sergachev in different pairs. Hedman was in the 1st pair but then there was either 6.75 mil McDonagh or 4.8 mil Sergachev in the 3rd pair. Now Cap is rising, so 7.5 mil in the 3rd pair ain't bad, especially when ASP is being paid less he should get.

No, Ed won't be forced to play with Seider. Because Wings gonna sign another D-man, Petes been mentioning Lindgren many times and the explanation makes sense to me, i find it believeable enough.

Lindgren knows his limits and knows his role, which Chiarot often forgets. AlJo can continue growing in the 3rd pair and after next season we'll see if he can play with Seider. If not, then keep AlJo in 3rd pair with ASP but if he can, then Lindgren can be dropped to 3rd pair. Chiarot in correct role in 3rd pair, upcoming UFA so we might see a best year in Detroit from him.

Lindgren - Seider
Ed - Ekblad
Chiarot - AlJo
Gus

Holl waived, since AnJo is probably returning in SHL. Holl can play 3rd pair in GR.

I asked the good folks on the Ranger board about Lindgren and KAM in a top pairing role. Posted almost all answers below...there is a a pattern here:

- "Miller would fit that bill far better and would be a good fit. He has some brain farts but overall is a solid d-man. Skates really well. Stay away from Lindgren unless it’s a bottom pairing role."

- "Miller can do it, the brain farts are obviously there and noticeable, but with a capable partner I think they'll be less an issue (his pair with Fox dominated their mins for instance). He's the type of guy you notice when something bad happens, but for the remaining 85-90% of his minutes just quietly plays his game well. Lindgren is a smaller Chiarot. Also w/r/t Lindgren, to be clear, he's one of the most heart and soul players in the league, who'd throw himself headfirst through the boards for his teammates. He's a great locker room guy. He's just not a very good hockey player"

- "Even if Miller just stays what he is right now he’s 10x the player Lindgren is. While also having the potential to solidify himself as a top pair guy. Lindgren, I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s out of the league inna year or two."

- "Ryan Lindgren is one of the worst regulars in the league. That is all."

- "There was a time when Lindy had close to 20OA value, but he has had WAY WAY WAY TOO much wear + tear, not a useful asset even 3rd pair, sorry to say b'c good heart + soul guy prob a good coach candidate."

 

[USAHockey97]

ASP for one.

Both goalie prospects are potentially as well (though obviously goalies are a lot more luck in their projections).

ASP definitely looks promising. We’ll see if it translates.

Well, everything you just said confirms my point about lack of patience and knee jerk reactions since I stated people were bitching about said picks the day they were drafted. Kasper was shat upon before graduating high school, let alone his draft day.

Yes, Kasper is a good point. That remains to be seen for the others though.

Seider CAN be a difference maker. Which is greatly hampered by the awful partners he's had to babysit on the blue line.

Get even an average defensive player and it's a chance to unlock another level of Mo. Not sure why it's been so difficult for Detroit to pursue that.

Agreed. Seider can absolutely be a difference maker. I think he is one and will be better with a more competent partner.

 

[SantosHalper]

I asked the good folks on the Ranger board about Lindgren and KAM in a top pairing role. Posted almost all answers below...there is a a pattern here:

- "Miller would fit that bill far better and would be a good fit. He has some brain farts but overall is a solid d-man. Skates really well. Stay away from Lindgren unless it’s a bottom pairing role."

- "Miller can do it, the brain farts are obviously there and noticeable, but with a capable partner I think they'll be less an issue (his pair with Fox dominated their mins for instance). He's the type of guy you notice when something bad happens, but for the remaining 85-90% of his minutes just quietly plays his game well. Lindgren is a smaller Chiarot. Also w/r/t Lindgren, to be clear, he's one of the most heart and soul players in the league, who'd throw himself headfirst through the boards for his teammates. He's a great locker room guy. He's just not a very good hockey player"

- "Even if Miller just stays what he is right now he’s 10x the player Lindgren is. While also having the potential to solidify himself as a top pair guy. Lindgren, I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s out of the league inna year or two."

- "Ryan Lindgren is one of the worst regulars in the league. That is all."

- "There was a time when Lindy had close to 20OA value, but he has had WAY WAY WAY TOO much wear + tear, not a useful asset even 3rd pair, sorry to say b'c good heart + soul guy prob a good coach candidate."

Sure, Miller is better but he's not a free asset. Depends a lot what they want in trade. Patching a hole by creating another one is no solution at all.

I went to check, actually way before our conversation what Avs fans thought about Lindgren, in two different forums and none had anything bad to say about him. Except here when Avs traded for him and Rangers fans said the same stuff. Avs fans bought in to that, until Lindgren played a first game for them. In 2nd pair role and it didn't take long for them to stop complaining.

Rangers had a failure season, somebody always becomes a whipping boy. And another hfboards classic is to claim that player is done before his 30th birthday.

2019-20 season Lindgren missed 10 games, 2020-21 he missed 5 games, 2021-22 he missed 4 regular season games and 3 playoff games. 2022-23 there he missed 19 games. 2023-24 he missed 6 games, this season he missed 10 games.

Avg TOI since 2020 19:38 and 4 different coaches has been playing him 19-20 min per night. Quick count but since 2019 there's been regular season and playoff games combined, 507 possible games for Lindgren. He has played 450 out of 507 games, averaging 19:05 during the regular season and 20:29 in playoffs. Not exactly numbers that supports statements from Rangers fans about Lindgren being broken bottom pair D who's gonna be out of the league in 2 years.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Sure, Miller is better but he's not a free asset. Depends a lot what they want in trade. Patching a hole by creating another one is no solution at all.

I went to check, actually way before our conversation what Avs fans thought about Lindgren, in two different forums and none had anything bad to say about him. Except here when Avs traded for him and Rangers fans said the same stuff. Avs fans bought in to that, until Lindgren played a first game for them. In 2nd pair role and it didn't take long for them to stop complaining.

Rangers had a failure season, somebody always becomes a whipping boy. And another hfboards classic is to claim that player is done before his 30th birthday.

2019-20 season Lindgren missed 10 games, 2020-21 he missed 5 games, 2021-22 he missed 4 regular season games and 3 playoff games. 2022-23 there he missed 19 games. 2023-24 he missed 6 games, this season he missed 10 games.

Avg TOI since 2020 19:38 and 4 different coaches has been playing him 19-20 min per night. Quick count but since 2019 there's been regular season and playoff games combined, 507 possible games for Lindgren. He has played 450 out of 507 games, averaging 19:05 during the regular season and 20:29 in playoffs. Not exactly numbers that supports statements from Rangers fans about Lindgren being broken bottom pair D who's gonna be out of the league in 2 years.

Cannot speak to him being broken down, but if I understood correctly you want to play him alongside Mo? I'm still leaning "no" on KAM btw and would only consider it, if we strike out on Gavrikov, Provorov or Fabbro in FA.

 

[SantosHalper]

Cannot speak to him being broken down, but if I understood correctly you want to play him alongside Mo? I'm still leaning "no" on KAM btw and would only consider it, if we strike out on Gavrikov, Provorov or Fabbro in FA.

Correct.

Im sure the price for Miller will be too rich for us. Most likely starts with Kasper, their center core is in their 30's and no prospects at all. If they trade Miller, then they can replace him Gavrikov or Provorov and draft Smith or Aitcheson. That outta fix that hole.

 

[schuelma24]

Correct.

Im sure the price for Miller will be too rich for us. Most likely starts with Kasper, their center core is in their 30's and no prospects at all. If they trade Miller, then they can replace him Gavrikov or Provorov and draft Smith or Aitcheson. That outta fix that hole.

Hmm I don't think the price for Miller will be that high. We'll see.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Correct.

Im sure the price for Miller will be too rich for us. Most likely starts with Kasper, their center core is in their 30's and no prospects at all. If they trade Miller, then they can replace him Gavrikov or Provorov and draft Smith or Aitcheson. That outta fix that hole.

Ok, maybe we can save us some time here. My preferences in FA are
1. Gavrikov
2. Provorov
3. Fabbro
4. trade
5. Ekblad

Do you disagree with that and where would you have Lindgren on that list?

 

[SantosHalper]

Ok, maybe we can save us some time here. My preferences in FA are
1. Gavrikov
2. Provorov
3. Fabbro
4. trade
5. Ekblad

Do you disagree with that and where would you have Lindgren on that list?

Wrong order, Ekblad #1 and i'd put Lindgren 5th above trade. If Ekblad signs, no need for Fabbro, then Lindgren slides to 4th.

But i don't see a reason for Provorov and Fabbro to leave Columbus, they have the cap space and top-3 role to offer. I'm expecting them to re-sign. Gavrikov probably has his eyes set in New York, more buddies over there. But make an offer, 7x6.8 to Gavrikov, if he wants more, like +1 mill more. Move on.

And why i leave trade in the bottom? Teams are preparing for new season, they also want to improve. Price for good players will be too high, cap dumbs will be available for cheap but probably not improve our team that much.

 

[Run the Jewels]

What would people think about acquiring Brady Skjei? I looked in the Nashville forum and there's one post announcing his signing and it only has 20 replies and zero in close to a year. Skjei has a 15 team no-trade clause, but it looks like Nashville's ambitions to retool on the fly may need to be reconsidered.

They could hope to pull a Washington, but with an aging core that may prove difficult. They have the third oldest team in the league. All of their top scoring centers are in their 30s, with 3 of them putting up 50ish point seasons as they approach 35 years of age. Outside of Filip Forsberg, the offense on that team is just dismal.

I'd trade them Berggren as that seems like a great environment for him. He would have been their 8th leading scorer with his production this past year, and they'd be able to give him time on a scoring line. I'd also trade one of our 3rd round picks in this upcoming draft. I'd also be willing to to trade a B prospect. I don't think we'd need them to retain any salary as his $7m per season is doable.

Skjei was a -24 on a terrible Nashville team that could not score. Only the Sharks scored fewer goals. Skjei plays a ton of short handed minutes, and has averaged 81 games played over the past 4 seasons after missing some time early on in his career.

He's averaged 18 mins 5v5 time over the past 4 years, so you could pair him with Mo but them move him down the lineup as needed over the 6 remaining years on his deal. He was top 20 in the NHL last season for defensive point shares when you look at guys still in their prime who played 1,600 or more minutes and are LHD. Gavrikov was 4th, so he's my #1 target, but just looking at other options.

There have been no rumors to suggest Nashville is looking trade him, but they have been a trade partner recently and if they decide a rebuild is the way to go it may make sense to move Skjei.

 

[saska sault]

What would people think about acquiring Brady Skjei? I looked in the Nashville forum and there's one post announcing his signing and it only has 20 replies and zero in close to a year. Skjei has a 15 team no-trade clause, but it looks like Nashville's ambitions to retool on the fly may need to be reconsidered.

They could hope to pull a Washington, but with an aging core that may prove difficult. They have the third oldest team in the league. All of their top scoring centers are in their 30s, with 3 of them putting up 50ish point seasons as they approach 35 years of age. Outside of Filip Forsberg, the offense on that team is just dismal.

I'd trade them Berggren as that seems like a great environment for him. He would have been their 8th leading scorer with his production this past year, and they'd be able to give him time on a scoring line. I'd also trade one of our 3rd round picks in this upcoming draft. I'd also be willing to to trade a B prospect. I don't think we'd need them to retain any salary as his $7m per season is doable.

Skjei was a -24 on a terrible Nashville team that could not score. Only the Sharks scored fewer goals. Skjei plays a ton of short handed minutes, and has averaged 81 games played over the past 4 seasons after missing some time early on in his career.

He's averaged 18 mins 5v5 time over the past 4 years, so you could pair him with Mo but them move him down the lineup as needed over the 6 remaining years on his deal. He was top 20 in the NHL last season for defensive point shares when you look at guys still in their prime who played 1,600 or more minutes and are LHD. Gavrikov was 4th, so he's my #1 target, but just looking at other options.

There have been no rumors to suggest Nashville is looking trade him, but they have been a trade partner recently and if they decide a rebuild is the way to go it may make sense to move Skjei.

Would be a potential fall back option? I personally hope they go the free agency route, keep assets and just use cap space but again free agency is never a guarantee to get your targets. Skjei at 7 million for another 5 years? Thats not horrible term or money and he is a left shot so it could work. Ill be honest that I only have seen a handful of games of his over the years but always thought he was a nice player who could contribute on both ends of the ice. Just looking at the stat sheet and not many had a good year in Nashville so would hope it comes at a low price if it was a possibility.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Would be a potential fall back option? I personally hope they go the free agency route, keep assets and just use cap space but again free agency is never a guarantee to get your targets. Skjei at 7 million for another 5 years? Thats not horrible term or money and he is a left shot so it could work. Ill be honest that I only have seen a handful of games of his over the years but always thought he was a nice player who could contribute on both ends of the ice. Just looking at the stat sheet and not many had a good year in Nashville so would hope it comes at a low price if it was a possibility.

Yeah, my PLAN A would be Gavrikov. I'd even trade for his right and then give him the Chychrun contract. This is just thinking through PLAN B, C, etc. I doubt Nashville trades him with that much term, as he's one of their top players.

 

[saska sault]

Yeah, my PLAN A would be Gavrikov. I'd even trade for his right and then give him the Chychrun contract. This is just thinking through PLAN B, C, etc. I doubt Nashville trades him with that much term, as he's one of their top players.

Gavrikov seems like the number one option for lots of Wings fan, I can't say I have seen much of him so him getting a big contract worries me but he seems highly regarded by most fan bases. Ekblad would be fine in my eyes but not at max term and if he is leaving Florida... why would he go to Detroit for 3-5 years? Having Mo, Simon and Johansson at least means there is a solid foundation for whoever they bring in and they wont need to do all the heavy lifting and be the #1.

 

[deca guard]

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Wrong order, Ekblad #1 and i'd put Lindgren 5th above trade. If Ekblad signs, no need for Fabbro, then Lindgren slides to 4th.

But i don't see a reason for Provorov and Fabbro to leave Columbus, they have the cap space and top-3 role to offer. I'm expecting them to re-sign. Gavrikov probably has his eyes set in New York, more buddies over there. But make an offer, 7x6.8 to Gavrikov, if he wants more, like +1 mill more. Move on.

And why i leave trade in the bottom? Teams are preparing for new season, they also want to improve. Price for good players will be too high, cap dumbs will be available for cheap but probably not improve our team that much.

Oh, so you agree, that Lindgren is the worst player on the list, but you wanna settle for him cuz it is better than nothing in your mind?

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Does shanahanman like any players? I don't think I have ever read a positive about any player, especially Wings players.

Dont even get, why anyone in here still bothers talking to this guy. His takes are based on nothing and presenting facts to him has no effect. I blocked him a long time ago. It elevated my experience on this board to a whole new level of delight.

 

[Frk It]

I asked the good folks on the Ranger board about Lindgren and KAM in a top pairing role. Posted almost all answers below...there is a a pattern here:

- "Miller would fit that bill far better and would be a good fit. He has some brain farts but overall is a solid d-man. Skates really well. Stay away from Lindgren unless it’s a bottom pairing role."

- "Miller can do it, the brain farts are obviously there and noticeable, but with a capable partner I think they'll be less an issue (his pair with Fox dominated their mins for instance). He's the type of guy you notice when something bad happens, but for the remaining 85-90% of his minutes just quietly plays his game well. Lindgren is a smaller Chiarot. Also w/r/t Lindgren, to be clear, he's one of the most heart and soul players in the league, who'd throw himself headfirst through the boards for his teammates. He's a great locker room guy. He's just not a very good hockey player"

- "Even if Miller just stays what he is right now he’s 10x the player Lindgren is. While also having the potential to solidify himself as a top pair guy. Lindgren, I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s out of the league inna year or two."

- "Ryan Lindgren is one of the worst regulars in the league. That is all."

- "There was a time when Lindy had close to 20OA value, but he has had WAY WAY WAY TOO much wear + tear, not a useful asset even 3rd pair, sorry to say b'c good heart + soul guy prob a good coach candidate."

I read these as reassuring/encouraging when it comes to Miller. Doesn’t line up with the “Rangers fans hate Miller” narrative people have been suggesting on here.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

I read these as reassuring/encouraging when it comes to Miller. Doesn’t line up with the “Rangers fans hate Miller” narrative people have been suggesting on here.

I think the narrative was more like "Rangers dislike Miller's defensive abilites", which I am still not sold on. I want a security blanket for Mo, but Mo would be the security blanket for KAM. Difference to the stat quo is that Miller is actually capable offensively. So this could work. Still, I hope we do not have to trade in order to fix the defense.

If Stevie is really that interested in Lindgren as it was reported and in fact signs him on top of that, then I'll start to have serious doubts in terms of his roster planning.