Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[jkutswings]

your incapable of analyzing counter opinions to yours

I was also unaware that you have fully analyzed and determined what I am capable of. Impressive.

instead you just stand for your position while attacking opponants

Actually I'm not attacking any people on this board. You may have me mistaken for someone else.

but the point that matters here is that signing better ufa , in the redwings rebuilding state , just makes your team decent enough to get into playoffs without cupping . while doing so costing you both long term cap space which could be better used , and also costing you extremely important draft position which could seriously detract from and actually wreck your rebuild because you were unable to draft long term top half core peices because of drafting at 20 instead of 10 . time will show how important drafting kasper n dannyson around 10th pick was , as opposed to us being better and drafting late teens . THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT....

I don't think this is the strategy, but for the moment let's assume you are correct.

Wouldn't it have been even better had Yzerman not signed ANY free agents and just used scrub vets from Grand Rapids? Then their draft position would have been even higher, with a ridiculous amount of cap flexibility.

Or is picking in the "not top 5, not bottom 15" range somehow the magical sweet spot?

I think it's more likely that Detroit simply does not have very good evaluation of NHL players, and made some poor selections.

But hey, you seem to know exactly what I'm thinking, so maybe I'm mistaken about my own opinions.

 

[ShanahanMan]

The team is getting better ... more kids are coming. They're building a culture, believe it or not. Rebuilds are not always linear and there's been renewed hope every year.

I pay for season tickets ... I can wait. I see the progress ... the kids getting better. Younger players still coming.

So, f*** Jake Walman and everyone who points to that trade as proof that Yzerman is a failure here. It's ridiculous.

None of the kids look like difference makers

 

[Crunchy]

None of the kids look like difference makers

You don't think we'll get a single difference maker out of our prospect pool?

 

[stillwater]

None of the kids look like difference makers

You've said that about every kid who's come along. Ever ...

I mean, it's reached the point where people are just wondering if you've become ironic.

 

[RabidBadger]

*nevermind, move along*

 

[jkutswings]

You've said that about every kid who's come along. Ever ...

I mean, it's reached the point where people are just wondering if you've become ironic.

I think if they give that Gretzky fella another few years of development, he might be a decent NHL player...

 

[RabidBadger]

None of the kids look like difference makers

Depends what you mean by difference maker. I don't know that any of them look to be perennial 80-100 guys or Quinn Hughes type d-men, I'll give you that. If enough of them hit so that we have solid depth, ala Vegas/Carolina then I think we're in good shape.

I don't know why I'm being nice about this.

 

[stillwater]

All these other teams get guys without giving their best players so that’s just a load of crap

So, propose a trade that brings in a youngish difference maker, that fits the rebuild ... not signing 37-year old Brad Marchand ... without giving up any of the core, and preferably without giving up any 1st round picks ... because using them to pick guys is how you begin to get your core, as has been proven over and over again since Yzerman took over.

A difference maker, not some 15-goal scorer ... or some D that you 'know for sure' is just ready to blossom.

Once you're finished with your proposal, stop and re-look at it again, and then ask yourself 'I wonder if anyone in the Red Wings hierarchy has thought of this' ... and answer, yes, if I can think of it, they can think of it and if it hasn't happened, there must be good reason.

 

[stillwater]

I think if they give that Gretzky fella another few years of development, he might be a decent NHL player...

He'll never be a difference maker.

But, he is over 60 ...

 

[stillwater]

Depends what you mean by difference maker. I don't know that any of them look to be perennial 80-100 guys or Quinn Hughes type d-men, I'll give you that. If enough of them hit so that we have solid depth, ala Vegas/Carolina then I think we're in good shape.

I don't know why I'm being nice about this.

They have to be as good right away as Sergei Fedorov and Vladimir Konstantinov (who we got by sweeping them away from the KGB ... and likely in violation of International law) were in their primes or they're just not good enough for him.

It's hard to win the Stanley Cup. Lots of franchises haven't won it. Steve Yzerman was about as good a "difference maker" as a player as this franchise ever had and it took him 15 years. Connor McDavid hasn't won one and frankly, his window might have closed, or he's going to have to leave Edmonton to get it.

Some guys never win ...

People piss and moan about being "passed by Ottawa" in the rebuild ... piss and moan about a team who got knocked out in the 1st round. But then they say "I don't want to have a team to just get knocked out in the 1st round". You can't win ...

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

So, I'm sure he'll do it if it makes sense.

If he doesn't sign Marner, for any number of reasons, it's not because he's not trying to improve.

There's 31 other teams vying to sign the same guys Yzerman is. 31 teams trying to trade for the same guys Yzerman is.

If you're comfortable trading Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson, them I'm sure you can get some of the guys on your wishlist. If not, it's a little more difficult to trade your trash for someone else's diamonds.

IF after 9 consecutive failed seasons this franchise has a whooping total of 3 players of value, ie not "trash" then both JH and SY have been atrocious.. that's precisely what your assessment would suggest..

The fact is that's not correct...if 9th OA Nate Danielson has no value than what a brutal pick...if 13th OA in 2025 has no value than what a brutal TDL..if everybody in GR is trash despite NO TEAM in the league having made more draft choices this decade than the DRW, than our entire mgmt and scouting staff is an embarrassment, but we both know that ain't true..

SY needs to make some, not all or final or total, impactful additions to this roster this summer...and then again in 26 and 27 and 28

 

[Oddbob]

Does shanahanman like any players? I don't think I have ever read a positive about any player, especially Wings players.

 

[USAHockey97]

They have to be as good right away as Sergei Fedorov and Vladimir Konstantinov (who we got by sweeping them away from the KGB ... and likely in violation of International law) were in their primes or they're just not good enough for him.

It's hard to win the Stanley Cup. Lots of franchises haven't won it. Steve Yzerman was about as good a "difference maker" as a player as this franchise ever had and it took him 15 years. Connor McDavid hasn't won one and frankly, his window might have closed, or he's going to have to leave Edmonton to get it.

Some guys never win ...

People piss and moan about being "passed by Ottawa" in the rebuild ... piss and moan about a team who got knocked out in the 1st round. But then they say "I don't want to have a team to just get knocked out in the 1st round". You can't win ...

Do you think the Wings have enough talent on the team, prospects in the pool, and ability to trade/sign FAs to give them a legit shot at the cup? Two Florida teams were in the last six Stanley cup finals, winning four. I think those are good blueprints to aim for. The other two cup champs in that time frame are also very well built and have high end talent.

Outside of the anomaly St. Louis, are the Wings on track to put on the ice the same level of talent other cup teams have? I would say no given their current trajectory.

Barring more aggressive moves, Detroit could become the next Minnesota Wild or Nashville Predators type team. I don’t want to see that happen.

 

[USAHockey97]

IF after 9 consecutive failed seasons this franchise has a whooping total of 3 players of value, ie not "trash" then both JH and SY have been atrocious.. that's precisely what your assessment would suggest..

The fact is that's not correct...if 9th OA Nate Danielson has no value than what a brutal pick...if 13th OA in 2025 has no value than what a brutal TDL..if everybody in GR is trash despite NO TEAM in the league having made more draft choices this decade than the DRW, than our entire mgmt and scouting staff is an embarrassment, but we both know that ain't true..

SY needs to make some, not all or final or total, impactful additions to this roster this summer...and then again in 26 and 27 and 28

Exactly. If our prospects have no value, then they were likely not good picks to begin with.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Does shanahanman like any players? I don't think I have ever read a positive about any player, especially Wings players.

ASP I think. Which might be the kiss of the death for ASP.

 

[ShanahanMan]

You don't think we'll get a single difference maker out of our prospect pool?

I do not. I think ASP has a shot to be a really good offensive defenseman, ie our own Gostisbehere but not a major needle mover.

MBN and Danielson are trending to be middle of lineup players.

Cossa, I’m sorry you can’t be holding out much hope there.

I think difference maker as bonafide top lineup players.

 

[USAHockey97]

I do not. I think ASP has a shot to be a really good offensive defenseman, ie our own Gostisbehere but not a major needle mover.

MBN and Danielson are trending to be middle of lineup players.

Cossa, I’m sorry you can’t be holding out much hope there.

I think difference maker as bonafide top lineup players.

The Wings do not have a difference maker then in their prospect pool.

 

[ShanahanMan]

The Wings do not have a difference maker then in their prospect pool.

Yes I agree with you

 

[The Zermanator]

The Wings do not have a difference maker then in their prospect pool.

Yes I agree with you

Sure, no difference makers in the prospect pool.

(let's just conveniently ignore the three, possibly four, 24-and-under difference makers already on the team)

 

[stillwater]

Wouldn't it be nice if people actually read the posts that they're quoting?

 

[WF19]

I do not. I think ASP has a shot to be a really good offensive defenseman, ie our own Gostisbehere but not a major needle mover.

MBN and Danielson are trending to be middle of lineup players.

Cossa, I’m sorry you can’t be holding out much hope there.

I think difference maker as bonafide top lineup players.

Who knows with Cossa he's still young. Kasper was an exciting pick then people were calling him bust and now he's starting to look like a legit #2 center. Raymond progresses every year and getting more calls for international play. We did. Have Dats and Z who never started as superstars, look at Tampa with Kuch and Point, they weren't top picks and never had all the crazy hype like all the other top picks..Kasper, MBN, ASP, Buch, that fin guy from Nashville lol can't remember his name but are all huge question marks.

 

[RabidBadger]

They have to be as good right away as Sergei Fedorov and Vladimir Konstantinov (who we got by sweeping them away from the KGB ... and likely in violation of International law) were in their primes or they're just not good enough for him.

It's hard to win the Stanley Cup. Lots of franchises haven't won it. Steve Yzerman was about as good a "difference maker" as a player as this franchise ever had and it took him 15 years. Connor McDavid hasn't won one and frankly, his window might have closed, or he's going to have to leave Edmonton to get it.

Some guys never win ...

People piss and moan about being "passed by Ottawa" in the rebuild ... piss and moan about a team who got knocked out in the 1st round. But then they say "I don't want to have a team to just get knocked out in the 1st round". You can't win ...

Yep. The same crowd that bitched about the Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Kasper picks the day they were selected. Any pick not in the NHL the year they were drafted is a bust. It's called DEVELOPMENT for a reason.

It's really no surprise coming from posters that bitched for 7 pages that we took Keenan Draper with a 7th round pick. Who was so valuable that was picked after him to be so indignant about! They could have selected Yzerman's pet sitter with that selection and I wouldn't give a shit.

As an aside; Dennis Thompson and Keith Moon are my favorite rock drummers. Neil is the greatest though. I dig the avatar.

 

[USAHockey97]

Sure, no difference makers in the prospect pool.

(let's just conveniently ignore the three, possibly four, 24-and-under difference makers already on the team)

Prospect pool refers to those individuals who are not on Detroit’s main roster and have yet to make it.

Difference maker in this context referred to bonafide top of the lineup players in prospect pool. Who do you see as such?

 

[USAHockey97]

Who knows with Cossa he's still young. Kasper was an exciting pick then people were calling him bust and now he's starting to look like a legit #2 center. Raymond progresses every year and getting more calls for international play. We did. Have Dats and Z who never started as superstars, look at Tampa with Kuch and Point, they weren't top picks and never had all the crazy hype like all the other top picks..Kasper, MBN, ASP, Buch, that fin guy from Nashville lol can't remember his name but are all huge question marks.

Cossa still has time to develop. That’s goalies. Kasper is definitely a pleasant surprise. You are correct, no one knows for sure what they will turn into, but none are seen as high end talent at the moment.

Yep. The same crowd that bitched about the Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Kasper picks the day they were selected. Any pick not in the NHL the year they were drafted is a bust. It's called DEVELOPMENT for a reason.

It's really no surprise coming from posters that bitched for 7 pages that we took Keenan Draper with a 7th round pick. Who was so valuable that was picked after him to be so indignant about! They could have selected Yzerman's pet sitter with that selection and I wouldn't give a shit.

As an aside; Dennis Thompson and Keith Moon are my favorite rock drummers. Neil is the greatest though. I dig the avatar.

Correct, it is called development. But I don’t think most people saw Kasper as a legit 2C a year or two ago. Raymond always had high expectations. Seider, I will 100% give you. That was an amazing selection. Though Seider looked really good after being drafted.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I do not. I think ASP has a shot to be a really good offensive defenseman, ie our own Gostisbehere but not a major needle mover.

MBN and Danielson are trending to be middle of lineup players.

Cossa, I’m sorry you can’t be holding out much hope there.

I think difference maker as bonafide top lineup players.

Yeah, you get those in the lottery.