Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[SantosHalper]

I think they will keep Gus on PP2 for that exact reason. Just like they did with Ghost to keep Mo's production in his contract yr in check. And midterm ASP will take that spot anyway.

I could maybe live with more term for Ekblad, if ASP was further away. But I believe he will be knocking on the door during the coming season. That would solve the Gus/Edvinsson problem, which I see as well. I see a problem with the allocation of money on one side. Since somewhere during a longterm Ekblad deal ASP will overtake him. Then you have a 7,5mil on your third pair. Even if it takes ASP a little longer, Ekblad will become grossly overpaid. Plus, by signing Ekblad you basically force Edvinsson to play alongside Seider yr. Cuz we prob agree that spot aint for Chiarot or Johansson (and I like him a lot). And although I think Edvinsson could do it, I doubt that it is best for him.

If Gus keeps shitting the bed, he won't be there for long. Ghost was way better.

I don't see that as a problem, like i mentioned before Tampa had Hedman, McDonagh and Sergachev in different pairs. Hedman was in the 1st pair but then there was either 6.75 mil McDonagh or 4.8 mil Sergachev in the 3rd pair. Now Cap is rising, so 7.5 mil in the 3rd pair ain't bad, especially when ASP is being paid less he should get.

No, Ed won't be forced to play with Seider. Because Wings gonna sign another D-man, Petes been mentioning Lindgren many times and the explanation makes sense to me, i find it believeable enough.

Like I said, he’s the second Dman I’ve heard connected to the Wings having interest in. The other one is Ryan Lindgren, because of the success he had playing with Fox in NY. He’d be a real good partner for ASP on a bottom pairing, but he’s also interchangeable. He can play with Seider or even carry a 3rd pairing with another vet, or Anton Johansson.

I’ve heard his name with Detroit since the beginning of this past season. Now he’s a UFA, so we’re going to find out how interested they’ve actually been. He has a great track record sheltering young Dmen and he’ll kill penalties as well. He can also play different roles.

Lindgren knows his limits and knows his role, which Chiarot often forgets. AlJo can continue growing in the 3rd pair and after next season we'll see if he can play with Seider. If not, then keep AlJo in 3rd pair with ASP but if he can, then Lindgren can be dropped to 3rd pair. Chiarot in correct role in 3rd pair, upcoming UFA so we might see a best year in Detroit from him.

Lindgren - Seider
Ed - Ekblad
Chiarot - AlJo
Gus

Holl waived, since AnJo is probably returning in SHL. Holl can play 3rd pair in GR.

 

[datsyukfan]

The team did improve though. Raymond proved he can be a bona fide PPG offensive star. Edvinsson proved he can anchor/carry a pairing. Kasper showed he has another gear and strong potential as a top 6 contributor at either C or W. Johansson proved he can be a dependable/competent dman at the NHL level. Those are all important outcomes for the success of the rebuild, and they were all still question marks at the end of last season.

Purely looking at standings is just another form of stat-watching without context. The proper context is that the product of the rebuild is starting to work its way on to the team, taking a bigger and bigger role, and making a larger impact. We may not have improved in the standings (for literally the first time in Yzerman's tenure), but we remained in the same position on the playoff bubble with a balance consisting of more contribution from the youth and less reliance on the mediocre placeholder vets. That trend will continue at an even greater pace over the next few seasons as those vets are not only outgrown, but outright relaced by the young talent in the organization.

The amount of pessimism around here is totally unwarranted considering that the half-baked rebuild is already on the cusp of the playoffs. It's pretty clear where things are trending when the mediocre vets are fully replaced by the young talent in the org, and that's not even considering whatever FA signings or trades could be made to improve the team too. People just need to be patient, there's a very exciting team shaping up.

Ya it’s pretty hard to tell people to be patient when it’s been nearly a decade since this team has even made the playoffs. The prospects/kids are good, but it still has no superstar.

Yzerman has also not shown he can make a big trade or sign elite FA’s. I think you are a little too confident, as to me we are just stuck in the middle being a bubble team

 

[drw02]

And got a 3rd overall pick that year, a 1st overall in 2022, and 5th overall in 2023 and again in 2024.

I wonder what it feels like to regularly get high picks instead of falling back year after year?

Sens did a more proper rebuild, took their lumps filling out roster with young players and AHL tweeners and got rewarded with good lotto odds for several years in a row. Wings seemingly gave up on trying for lotto picks bc they were unlucky the one time they were the worst team. Proceeded to hand out a bunch of long term deals to mid level vets that pushed them into mushy middle and severely hampered their lotto odds

The vision of this rebuild has been out of focus for awhile now, the Larkin decision was really a defining point. He should have been traded for a stockpile If the plan was to rebuild through the draft. If you resign him then the rebuild plan should have looked more like Vegas/Florida with aggressive win now moves. Instead we got wishy washy attempts at both ends of the spectrum

 

[better Red than Dead]

The team did improve though. Raymond proved he can be a bona fide PPG offensive star. Edvinsson proved he can anchor/carry a pairing. Kasper showed he has another gear and strong potential as a top 6 contributor at either C or W. Johansson proved he can be a dependable/competent dman at the NHL level. Those are all important outcomes for the success of the rebuild, and they were all still question marks at the end of last season.

Purely looking at standings is just another form of stat-watching without context. The proper context is that the product of the rebuild is starting to work its way on to the team, taking a bigger and bigger role, and making a larger impact. We may not have improved in the standings (for literally the first time in Yzerman's tenure), but we remained in the same position on the playoff bubble with a balance consisting of more contribution from the youth and less reliance on the mediocre placeholder vets. That trend will continue at an even greater pace over the next few seasons as those vets are not only outgrown, but outright relaced by the young talent in the organization.

The amount of pessimism around here is totally unwarranted considering that the half-baked rebuild is already on the cusp of the playoffs. It's pretty clear where things are trending when the mediocre vets are fully replaced by the young talent in the org, and that's not even considering whatever FA signings or trades could be made to improve the team too. People just need to be patient, there's a very exciting team shaping up.

That’s one way of looking at it of course, the other is that we can’t seem to attract any free agents here due to the perception the team and roster is not a winner. There is also that the team has been rebuilding for 9 years and has given the fan base little hope it won’t be 10 years. Meanwhile, outside of Buffalo, all the Wings peers they began the rebuild with and were measured against have all surpassed and exceeded them. All the other Detroit sports teams who were in even worse positions are now playoff contenders with a solid young core that excites the fans and generates a buzz and has them viewed as being teams on the upswing. The Red Wings? Not so much. Patience is wearing thin

 

[deca guard]

the cry babys here constantly bitch about yzermans ufa signings when they dont know a damn thing about building an nhl team . how many times do you have to hear that you only get top level game changers as long term core peices via the draft ! and if yzerman was to have been signing better ufa all along we'd have been in the late teens draft zone with zero chance at drafting an elite long term core peice . so he just signed bottom half ufa whom he knew were company men to build team culture without seriously improving record so that he could draft earlier , as the odds of drafting a core peice are way higher at 10 than they are 20 ! but keep bitching and whining to sign better ufa at the cost of important long term cap space which needs be used to sign our own draftees like yzerman signed sidez n rayz , and at the cost of earlier draft position that would have cost us kasper / dannyson / nbd . you cry babys know better than yzerman whom built a dynasty in tbay and has crushed every 1st round pick hes made

but lets not focus on sidez , rayz , asp , kasp , cossa , dannyson , d'cat , eddie , augie , etc . lets piss n moan 24/7 and turn the forum into a nursery school

 

[deca guard]

Sens did a more proper rebuild, took their lumps filling out roster with young players and AHL tweeners and got rewarded with good lotto odds for several years in a row. Wings seemingly gave up on trying for lotto picks bc they were unlucky the one time they were the worst team. Proceeded to hand out a bunch of long term deals to mid level vets that pushed them into mushy middle and severely hampered their lotto odds

The vision of this rebuild has been out of focus for awhile now, the Larkin decision was really a defining point. He should have been traded for a stockpile If the plan was to rebuild through the draft. If you resign him then the rebuild plan should have looked more like Vegas/Florida with aggressive win now moves. Instead we got wishy washy attempts at both ends of the spectrum

i think the fear is that if you get too weak it becomes very difficult to get the team upright again . not to mention the whining of the self entitled fan base becomes horrible , need to give them some hope like you give a crying baby a pacifier . and in larkin you need an excellent leader to pull the team together even in junk seasons . not to mention that he can still be traded for a stock pile

 

[USAHockey97]

And got a 3rd overall pick that year, a 1st overall in 2022, and 5th overall in 2023 and again in 2024.

I wonder what it feels like to regularly get high picks instead of falling back year after year?

Probably feeling their chances at a cup are better?

 

[deca guard]

 

[USAHockey97]

the cry babys here constantly bitch about yzermans ufa signings when they dont know a damn thing about building an nhl team . how many times do you have to hear that you only get top level game changers as long term core peices via the draft ! and if yzerman was to have been signing better ufa all along we'd have been in the late teens draft zone with zero chance at drafting an elite long term core peice . so he just signed bottom half ufa whom he knew were company men to build team culture without seriously improving record so that he could draft earlier , as the odds of drafting a core peice are way higher at 10 than they are 20 ! but keep bitching and whining to sign better ufa at the cost of important long term cap space which needs be used to sign our own draftees like yzerman signed sidez n rayz , and at the cost of earlier draft position that would have cost us kasper / dannyson / nbd . you cry babys know better than yzerman whom built a dynasty in tbay and has crushed every 1st round pick hes made

but lets not focus on sidez , rayz , asp , kasp , cossa , dannyson , d'cat , eddie , augie , etc . lets piss n moan 24/7 and turn the forum into a nursery school

Because there have been GMs who seem to not know what they were doing before… Mike Millbury anyone? I am not saying Yzerman is anywhere near that (he’s a very good GM), but to pretend GMs are infallible is silly.

That said, Yzerman is clearly banking on his first round picks being good enough to compete with other stars. Time will tell. But as noted elsewhere, trading and FA are key components to a successful cup team too.

 

[DangerMouse]

The team has certainly improved under Yzerman, but I think the worry is seeing a path that avoids plateauing right around that 90 point mark. Last year the team integrated Kasper, kinda Edvinsson, AlJo, and kinda Soderblom.

This year I’d like to see 3-4 more young guys brought along. Some combination of Mazur, Danielson, MBN, ASP, Lombardi, Wallinder, Cossa.

I just don’t know if any of those players, or some combination of them, are good enough to make us contenders. I think they will be good enough in a year or two to get us into the playoffs, but just getting in isn’t the goal.

 

[USAHockey97]

Ya it’s pretty hard to tell people to be patient when it’s been nearly a decade since this team has even made the playoffs. The prospects/kids are good, but it still has no superstar.

Yzerman has also not shown he can make a big trade or sign elite FA’s. I think you are a little too confident, as to me we are just stuck in the middle being a bubble team

This is my sentiment and fear. I hope Yzerman is just biding his time before he makes the moves needed.

 

[USAHockey97]

View attachment 1053413

The team has certainly improved under Yzerman, but I think the worry is seeing a path that avoids plateauing right around that 90 point mark. Last year the team integrated Kasper, kinda Edvinsson, AlJo, and kinda Soderblom.

This year I’d like to see 3-4 more young guys brought along. Some combination of Mazur, Danielson, MBN, ASP, Lombardi, Wallinder, Cossa.

I just don’t know if any of those players, or some combination of them, are good enough to make us contenders. I think they will be good enough in a year or two to get us into the playoffs, but just getting in isn’t the goal.

Our highest end prospects were Seider, Raymond and Edvinson. While we have other promising pieces, those three are our ‘high end’ guys. Time will tell if that’s enough to compete with other teams’ high end players.

 

[better Red than Dead]

the cry babys here constantly bitch about yzermans ufa signings when they dont know a damn thing about building an nhl team . how many times do you have to hear that you only get top level game changers as long term core peices via the draft ! and if yzerman was to have been signing better ufa all along we'd have been in the late teens draft zone with zero chance at drafting an elite long term core peice . so he just signed bottom half ufa whom he knew were company men to build team culture without seriously improving record so that he could draft earlier , as the odds of drafting a core peice are way higher at 10 than they are 20 ! but keep bitching and whining to sign better ufa at the cost of important long term cap space which needs be used to sign our own draftees like yzerman signed sidez n rayz , and at the cost of earlier draft position that would have cost us kasper / dannyson / nbd . you cry babys know better than yzerman whom built a dynasty in tbay and has crushed every 1st round pick hes made

but lets not focus on sidez , rayz , asp , kasp , cossa , dannyson , d'cat , eddie , augie , etc . lets piss n moan 24/7 and turn the forum into a nursery school

So you’re saying that Yzerman’s UFA misses were planned because he wants to have higher draft picks? We are crybabies now because we are now year 9 into a rebuild and expect better results? No one is being unrealistic or unreasonable by losing patience or asking questions, I used to be an Yzerbot but last summer’s bad whiffs has me questioning the “Yzerplan”. It’s great that he has done well with his 1st rd picks, I’d argue the later draft picks haven’t been as solid, but that’s on Draper and Co. when Yzerman was hired I wasn’t just excited because he’s a legend I was excited because of what he did in Tampa, how he was not scared to trade and make moves no one saw coming. It seemed he won every trade he made, or just about. Where is that Yzerman? And don’t get me started on how bad the pro scouts have been, especially when you look at how other teams build with minor trades and signings that look like nothing but end up making a difference

 

[jkutswings]

the cry babys here constantly bitch about yzermans ufa signings when they dont know a damn thing about building an nhl team . how many times do you have to hear that you only get top level game changers as long term core peices via the draft ! and if yzerman was to have been signing better ufa all along we'd have been in the late teens draft zone with zero chance at drafting an elite long term core peice . so he just signed bottom half ufa whom he knew were company men to build team culture without seriously improving record so that he could draft earlier , as the odds of drafting a core peice are way higher at 10 than they are 20 ! but keep bitching and whining to sign better ufa at the cost of important long term cap space which needs be used to sign our own draftees like yzerman signed sidez n rayz , and at the cost of earlier draft position that would have cost us kasper / dannyson / nbd . you cry babys know better than yzerman whom built a dynasty in tbay and has crushed every 1st round pick hes made

but lets not focus on sidez , rayz , asp , kasp , cossa , dannyson , d'cat , eddie , augie , etc . lets piss n moan 24/7 and turn the forum into a nursery school

I was unaware that the only options in trades and free agency are elite players and garbage.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

the cry babys here constantly bitch about yzermans ufa signings when they dont know a damn thing about building an nhl team . how many times do you have to hear that you only get top level game changers as long term core peices via the draft ! and if yzerman was to have been signing better ufa all along we'd have been in the late teens draft zone with zero chance at drafting an elite long term core peice . so he just signed bottom half ufa whom he knew were company men to build team culture without seriously improving record so that he could draft earlier , as the odds of drafting a core peice are way higher at 10 than they are 20 ! but keep bitching and whining to sign better ufa at the cost of important long term cap space which needs be used to sign our own draftees like yzerman signed sidez n rayz , and at the cost of earlier draft position that would have cost us kasper / dannyson / nbd . you cry babys know better than yzerman whom built a dynasty in tbay and has crushed every 1st round pick hes made

but lets not focus on sidez , rayz , asp , kasp , cossa , dannyson , d'cat , eddie , augie , etc . lets piss n moan 24/7 and turn the forum into a nursery school

The reason he intentionally and deliberately signed Holl was to draft 13th overall in 2025?

This take reeks of a very biased POV

 

[datsyukfan]

the cry babys here constantly bitch about yzermans ufa signings when they dont know a damn thing about building an nhl team . how many times do you have to hear that you only get top level game changers as long term core peices via the draft ! and if yzerman was to have been signing better ufa all along we'd have been in the late teens draft zone with zero chance at drafting an elite long term core peice . so he just signed bottom half ufa whom he knew were company men to build team culture without seriously improving record so that he could draft earlier , as the odds of drafting a core peice are way higher at 10 than they are 20 ! but keep bitching and whining to sign better ufa at the cost of important long term cap space which needs be used to sign our own draftees like yzerman signed sidez n rayz , and at the cost of earlier draft position that would have cost us kasper / dannyson / nbd . you cry babys know better than yzerman whom built a dynasty in tbay and has crushed every 1st round pick hes made

but lets not focus on sidez , rayz , asp , kasp , cossa , dannyson , d'cat , eddie , augie , etc . lets piss n moan 24/7 and turn the forum into a nursery school

I think people are asking to sign better FA’s the past few years not the whole time. People are also asking to execute trades for young good players, which yzerman essentially has failed to do other than Cat who all but fell in his lap.

 

[better Red than Dead]

I was unaware that the only options in trades and free agency are elite players and garbage.

Some people enjoy arguing with “straw men”.

 

[deca guard]

I was unaware that the only options in trades and free agency are elite players and garbage.

your incapable of analyzing counter opinions to yours , instead you just stand for your position while attacking opponants . but the point that matters here is that signing better ufa , in the redwings rebuilding state , just makes your team decent enough to get into playoffs without cupping . while doing so costing you both long term cap space which could be better used , and also costing you extremely important draft position which could seriously detract from and actually wreck your rebuild because you were unable to draft long term top half core peices because of drafting at 20 instead of 10 . time will show how important drafting kasper n dannyson around 10th pick was , as opposed to us being better and drafting late teens . THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT....

 

[better Red than Dead]

your incapable of analyzing counter opinions to yours , instead you just stand for your position while attacking opponants . but the point that matters here is that signing better ufa , in the redwings rebuilding state , just makes your team decent enough to get into playoffs without cupping . while doing so costing you both long term cap space which could be better used , and also costing you extremely important draft position which could seriously detract from and actually wreck your rebuild because you were unable to draft long term top half core peices because of drafting at 20 instead of 10 . time will show how important drafting kasper n dannyson around 10th pick was , as opposed to us being better and drafting late teens . THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT....

Not really, look at Florida, only 3 or 4 roster players were actually drafted by them, the rest came from free agency or trades. Mostly trades. Similar teams in their rebuilds are ahead of the Red Wings as well. Your current captain has not seen a playoff game since 2016 and is 30 years old, your core is getting older and restless. The buyout window is upon us and as of right now, Holl and Gus are still here, why? Calling fans crybabies for wanting to see better results or direction other than “patience”
After 6 years of Yzerplan and 9 years of no playoffs is ridiculous especially when most fans are measured in their critiques

 

[Crunchy]

The wings have the capital to make some moves and the prospect pool to supplement it's roster for years into the future. Time to make some moves, time to make the playoffs. One of the goalies hits and we're golden.

 

[stillwater]

Our highest end prospects were Seider, Raymond and Edvinson. While we have other promising pieces, those three are our ‘high end’ guys. Time will tell if that’s enough to compete with other teams’ high end players.

You don't think it's possible to add more 'high end' guys, whether through the draft, trades or free agency? I mean Seider and Raymond are only one year into their deals and Edvinsson hasn't even signed an extension yet for f*** sake! You don't think more 'high end' guys can be added in the next 7 or 8 years?

Time will tell my ass ...

 

[datsyukfan]

You don't think it's possible to add more 'high end' guys, whether through the draft, trades or free agency? I mean Seider and Raymond are only one year into their deals and Edvinsson hasn't even signed an extension yet for f*** sake! You don't think more 'high end' guys can be added in the next 7 or 8 years?

Time will tell my ass ...

It’s possible but how long are we supposed to wait? People are asking to add high end guys now. We have the cap space and assets to do it

 

[stillwater]

So, I'm sure he'll do it if it makes sense.

If he doesn't sign Marner, for any number of reasons, it's not because he's not trying to improve.

There's 31 other teams vying to sign the same guys Yzerman is. 31 teams trying to trade for the same guys Yzerman is.

If you're comfortable trading Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson, them I'm sure you can get some of the guys on your wishlist. If not, it's a little more difficult to trade your trash for someone else's diamonds.

 

[datsyukfan]

So, I'm sure he'll do it if it makes sense.

If he doesn't sign Marner, for any number of reasons, it's not because he's not trying to improve.

There's 31 other teams vying to sign the same guys Yzerman is. 31 teams trying to trade for the same guys Yzerman is.

If you're comfortable trading Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson, them I'm sure you can get some of the guys on your wishlist. If not, it's a little more difficult to trade your trash for someone else's diamonds.

All these other teams get guys without giving their best players so that’s just a load of crap

 

[stillwater]

The team is getting better ... more kids are coming. They're building a culture, believe it or not. Rebuilds are not always linear and there's been renewed hope every year.

I pay for season tickets ... I can wait. I see the progress ... the kids getting better. Younger players still coming.

So, f*** Jake Walman and everyone who points to that trade as proof that Yzerman is a failure here. It's ridiculous.