Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[Frk It]

... The situation Toronto is currently in is blowing their whole window because they terribly mismanaged their salary cap and didn't even get an ECF appearance out of it.

If Matthews' wrist is truly as bad as fans seem to make it out to be, that team is cooked. They're not getting better as Marner leaves and Tavares either leaves or ages.

Sounds like you are falling victim to a lot of the overreacting taking place.

Auston Matthews is 27 years old last I checked. They have some other really good players. There are worst spots to be in.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Sounds like you are falling victim to a lot of the overreacting taking place.

Auston Matthews is 27 years old last I checked. They have some other really good players. There are worst spots to be in.

Huh? It's overreacting to suggest they're not going to get better as two of their core pieces either age (Tavares) or leave the team? (Marner/Tavares)

Marner is so good that you believe he'd drastically improve Detroit to the point that he's worth throwing $13M at... So doesn't that kinda suggest that he's a major loss for Toronto? They're going to get better and achieve more by losing him?

 

[Run the Jewels]

Huh? It's overreacting to suggest they're not going to get better as two of their core pieces either age (Tavares) or leave the team? (Marner/Tavares)

Marner is so good that you believe he'd drastically improve Detroit to the point that he's worth throwing $13M at... So doesn't that kinda suggest that he's a major loss for Toronto? They're going to get better and achieve more by losing him?

One thing I'll say is that Toronto fans love to use Marner as their spacegoat. A guy who is Selke caliber and puts up 90 point seasons is surely going to be missed.

 

[Frk It]

Huh? It's overreacting to suggest they're not going to get better as two of their core pieces either age (Tavares) or leave the team? (Marner/Tavares)

Marner is so good that you believe he'd drastically improve Detroit to the point that he's worth throwing $13M at... So doesn't that kinda suggest that he's a major loss for Toronto?

Knies can’t continue to get better? They can’t make moves at upcoming deadlines or free agency? They can’t add a coach the team responds to better? Matthews might figure out how to perform better in the playoffs?

There are dozens of ways they could find ways to improve that team over the next few years.

They have one of the best American players ever and one of the best goal scorers I have ever seen who is all of 27. Yeah, I think saying they are “cooked” is being a victim of the moment.

But we can agree to disagree.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Knies can’t continue to get better? They can’t make moves at upcoming deadlines or free agency? They can’t add a coach the team responds to better? Matthews might figure out how to perform better in the playoffs?

There are dozens of ways they could find ways to improve that team over the next few years.

They have one of the best American players ever and one of the best goal scorers I have ever seen who is all of 27. Yeah, I think saying they are “cooked” is being a victim of the moment.

But we can agree to disagree.

Knies will get better. Well over PPG better? Probably not.

What moves would you like them to make at the TDL or UFA? What great moves has Treliving made that set him apart from Dubas? Two 1sts and their top prospect for Carlo and Laughton sure as hell isn't looking like a solid move right now.

They're adding a coach the team responds to better? They've had Babcock, Keefe, and now Berube, and the overwhelming them through all of them is that they're soft, don't take criticism, and aren't coachable. Berube literally jokes in pressers that he doesn't say anything to Nylander because he wont listen anyways.

And yes, I would certainly hope Matthews pulls his head out of his ass and learns to perform better in the playoffs, but am I expecting anything after 9 years of mediocrity?

This is the situation we want to be in? We want to replicate the team where you're saying well If Knies continues to improve and If their GM stops making stupid moves and If the stars can pull their heads out of their asses and finally be coached and if the franchise player finally shows up after a decade of sucking in the playoffs? That's who we want to be?

 

[Frk It]

Knies will get better. Well over PPG better? Probably not.

What moves would you like them to make at the TDL or UFA? What great moves has Treliving made that set him apart from Dubas? Two 1sts and their top prospect for Carlo and Laughton sure as hell isn't looking like a solid move right now.

They're adding a coach the team responds to better? They've had Babcock, Keefe, and now Berube, and the overwhelming them through all of them is that they're soft, don't take criticism, and aren't coachable. Berube literally jokes in pressers that he doesn't say anything to Nylander because he wont listen anyways.

And yes, I would certainly hope Matthews pulls his head out of his ass and learns to perform better in the playoffs, but am I expecting anything after 9 years of mediocrity?

This is the situation we want to be in? We want to replicate the team where you're saying well If Knies continues to improve and If their GM stops making stupid moves and If the stars can pull their heads out of their asses and finally be coached and if the franchise player finally shows up after a decade of sucking in the playoffs? That's who we want to be?

Yeah, I would hate to have to try to build around a 27 year old Auston Matthews. Talk about a nightmare.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yeah, I would hate to have to try to build around a 27 year old Auston Matthews. Talk about a nightmare.

Yeah, he's certainly proven himself to be worthy of the highest paid player in the league.

BTW, thanks for the one line response and not addressing the rebuttals to your claims about coaching and management lol.

 

[datsyukfan]

If the rumor is true that Robertson in Dallas is available I would definitely jump all over that. 13th overall ++

 

[Frk It]

Yeah, he's certainly proven himself to be worthy of the highest paid player in the league.

BTW, thanks for the one line response and not addressing the rebuttals to your claims about coaching and management lol.

Didn't really see a need to dive into all that when it's pretty obvious we are just going to disagree.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Didn't really see a need to dive into all that when it's pretty obvious we are just going to disagree.

Didn't see a need to dive in because it's batshit insanity lmao.

I do appreciate the suggestion that the fourth time is the charm on coaching. That was solid comedy.

 

[Frk It]

Didn't see a need to dive in because it's batshit insanity lmao.

I do appreciate the suggestion that the fourth time is the charm on coaching. That was solid comedy.

Seems like you want to keep this going more than me. You a Toronto fan or something?

Would love to do a poll among GM’s about best/worst situations in the league and see where Toronto comes in. I’d guess higher than you think.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Seems like you want to keep this going more than me. You a Toronto fan or something?

Would love to do a poll among GM’s about best/worst situations in the league and see where Toronto comes in. I’d guess higher than you think.

I'm confused.

You think I'm a Toronto fan... With a username referencing a Detroit player... Coming into Detroit's board... To tell you Toronto's situation f***ing sucks... After you said how great it is and is something we should be happy with?

Wut?

 

[Frk It]

I'm confused.

You think I'm a Toronto fan... With a username referencing a Detroit player... Coming into Detroit's board... To tell you Toronto's situation f***ing sucks... After you said how great it is and is something we should be happy with?

Wut?

You’re just making all the same arguments and overreactions Toronto fans are right now so it’s confusing.

Again, agree to disagree. Toronto has a player clearly better than anything we have in the #1 hockey market in the world and is way more attractive to free agents than we are.

So no, I don’t think their situation is that terrible. You do. Cool. Now we know where we stand.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

You’re just making all the same arguments and overreactions Toronto fans are right now so it’s confusing.

Again, agree to disagree. Toronto has a player clearly better than anything we have in the #1 hockey market in the world and is way more attractive to free agents than we are.

So no, I don’t think their situation is that terrible. You do. Cool. Now we know where we stand.

The arguments and "Overreactions" Toronto fans are making right now are what fans from the rest of the league have been telling them for years. Maybe that's why you're confused lmao.

 

[Frk It]

The arguments and "Overreactions" Toronto fans are making right now are what fans from the rest of the league have been telling them for years. Maybe that's why you're confused lmao.

Yeah and I’m old enough to remember people making fun of Edmonton and questioning if they were ever gonna figure it out and look at them now. Fans are fickle and impatient.

Having elite talent is more than half the battle.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

One thing I'll say is that Toronto fans love to use Marner as their spacegoat. A guy who is Selke caliber and puts up 90 point seasons is surely going to be missed.

I never understood the Marners or Matthews for Selke chatter. They’re not bad defensive players but Selke level? I can name many, many more wingers and centers before I name those two.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yeah and I’m old enough to remember people making fun of Edmonton and questioning if they were ever gonna figure it out and look at them now. Fans are fickle and impatient.

Having elite talent is more than half the battle.

Edmonton's elite talent has never been their problem.

Toronto's elite talent has always been their problem.

Keep swinging though. Maybe a new coach can do something the last three couldn't, like you said. Because coaching is definitely the problem lmao.

 

[Frk It]

Edmonton's elite talent has never been their problem.

Toronto's elite talent has always been their problem.

Keep swinging though. Maybe a new coach can do something the last three couldn't, like you said. Because coaching is definitely the problem lmao.

I'm not gonna sit here and throw shade at a perennial 100+ point team when we haven't made the playoffs in 10 years. You can knock yourself out.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I'm not gonna sit here and throw shade at a perennial 100+ point team when we haven't made the playoffs in 10 years. You can knock yourself out.

Clearly. After all, choking every April like Toronto is what you'd like us to strive for.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I never understood the Marners or Matthews for Selke chatter. They’re not bad defensive players but Selke level? I can name many, many more wingers and centers before I name those two.

They are selke caliber. The problem is they choke and disappear in the playoffs. In the regular season they absolutely are at that tier. Especially Marner

 

[jkutswings]

Clearly. After all, choking every April like Toronto is what you'd like us to strive for.

Saying that Toronto isn't garbage water <> Toronto's performance has been acceptable <> Detroit should emulate Toronto in every way.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Saying that Toronto isn't garbage water <> Toronto's performance has been acceptable <> Detroit should emulate Toronto in every way.

The direct quote was "Detroit would be lucky to be in the situation Toronto is in now".

The subsequent argument stemmed when I pointed out that Toronto has blown their best contention window in 30+ years without even making an ECF.

That's not a desirable situation that we'd "Be lucky to be in" lol.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I never understood the Marners or Matthews for Selke chatter. They’re not bad defensive players but Selke level? I can name many, many more wingers and centers before I name those two.

He's top 10 in several metrics if you only include forwards who played >=1,500 mins.

Defensive point shares (#9)
xGA/60 (#8)
FF rel% (#10)

Bump that down to 1,300 minutes and he's still comfortably top 15. He also plays big PK minutes, over 2 mins per game, and some guys with better defensive point shares do not PK.

He's a very solid defensive forward. Nylander has better defensive stats than Matthews, but he's behind Marner.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I never understood the Marners or Matthews for Selke chatter. They’re not bad defensive players but Selke level? I can name many, many more wingers and centers before I name those two.

Same reason old ass Michael Bunting had a shot at the Calder.

Both are voted for by the media. Where is hockey media central?

 

[norrisnick]

The direct quote was "Detroit would be lucky to be in the situation Toronto is in now".

The subsequent argument stemmed when I pointed out that Toronto has blown their best contention window in 30+ years without even making an ECF.

That's not a desirable situation that we'd "Be lucky to be in" lol.

Are you aware of the situation the Wings have been in of late?

There are degrees of suck and our current suck level is considerably worse than Toronto's.