Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[Frk It]

That's not how drafting works. When your scouts suck, it's gonna be much higher likelihood.

At this point there aren't many people here hoping Wallinder, Neiderbach or Hanas will wind up being anything significant. Peterka, Evangelista, and Faber all had some hype pre-draft, but Stevie/Draper/Hakan went for the "safe" picks. Not really sure what the point of a "safe" pick is, especially past the first round because that just means AHL/SHL fodder.

Wallinder and Hanas were definitely picks where we were chasing upside. I thought Wallinder deserved to go in round 1. Go back and read a scouting report on Hanas, he was very much considered a skilled forward.

I’ll say it again, there is way more luck involved with your picks from rounds 2-7 hitting than people on here want to acknowledge.

 

[RabidBadger]

Agreed. Building a team of safe picks doesn’t really give you high end players. Outside of the top 3, you need to take some swings. At least mix it up with swings and safe picks.

Off the top of my head, Seider was the swing of swings. I was at that draft party in the LCA and that pick stopped everyone in their tracks. Tuomisto and Wallinder were known "project" players. Trading up for Cossa and picking him over Wallstedt was a big swing for that draft. Taking Danielson before ASP would blow most people's minds today, let alone taking either of them when Gabe Perrault was still on the board.

I'd say it been mostly predictable with the draft choices. You have to be comfortable that sometimes when you swing you get a Brady Cleveland.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Wallinder and Hanas were definitely picks where we were chasing upside. I thought Wallinder deserved to go in round 1. Go back and read a scouting report on Hanas, he was very much considered a skilled forward.

I’ll say it again, there is way more luck involved with your picks from rounds 2-7 hitting than people on here want to acknowledge.

You seem to have a problem acknowledging how bad our NA scouting and drafting has been.

Rd2 Draft Picks between 2016 and 2020

North America
Hits (100+ NHL games)

1. Givani Smith (168 games)

Misses

1. Cross Hanas
2. Robert Mastrosimone
3. Jared McIsaac

North American hit rate: 25%

Europe
Hits (100+ NHL games)

1. Albert Johansson (will hit 100 this season)
2. Jonatan Berggren
3. Gustav Lindstrom (174 games)
4. Fillip Hronek

Misses

1. William Wallinder
2. Theodor Niederbach
3. Antti Tuomisto

European hit rate: 57%

Calling Givani Smith a hit is embarrassing, yet here we are. Hronek is a first pairing defenseman, Berggren is a middle six winger capable of putting up 10-15 goals, and Johansson and Wallinder still have some upside. Lindstrom is basically Givani Smith and Tuomisto was a Tyler Wright special.

You've yet to find a way to slice the data to create a compelling case that suggests our North American scouting isn't garbage. 30 years, Tyler Wright era, Early Yzerman era, etc, etc, etc. It'a all bad.

I do hope it improves as we aren't wining a Cup with our s**tty drafting out of the US and Canada, but I'm simply not willing to bury my head in the sand and waive away that long track record of ineptitude.

 

[Frk It]

You seem to have a problem acknowledging how bad our NA scouting and drafting has been.

Rd2 Draft Picks between 2016 and 2020

North America
Hits (100+ NHL games)

1. Givani Smith (168 games)

Misses

1. Cross Hanas
2. Robert Mastrosimone
3. Jared McIsaac

North American hit rate: 25%

Europe
Hits (100+ NHL games)

1. Albert Johansson (will hit 100 this season)
2. Jonatan Berggren
3. Gustav Lindstrom (174 games)
4. Fillip Hronek

Misses

1. William Wallinder
2. Theodor Niederbach
3. Antti Tuomisto

European hit rate: 57%

Calling Givani Smith a hit is embarrassing, yet here we are. Hronek is a first pairing defenseman, Berggren is a middle six winger capable of putting up 10-15 goals, and Johansson and Wallinder still have some upside. Lindstrom is basically Givani Smith and Tuomisto was a Tyler Wright special.

You've yet to find a way to slice the data to create a compelling case that suggests our North American scouting isn't garbage. 30 years, Tyler Wright era, Early Yzerman era, etc, etc, etc. It'a all bad.

I do hope it improves as we aren't wining a Cup with our s**tty drafting out of the US and Canada, but I'm simply not willing to bury my head in the sand and waive away that long track record of ineptitude

How many times can you re-hash this same argument?

We get your point. This is why Holland is gone. This is why Tyler Wright is out of the league. And as others have pointed out, it’s just pretty early to judge Yzerman’s drafting… Although we have seen some promise with Lombardi, Mazur, Danielson, Plante, Augustine, Cossa, etc. - As you yourself have acknowledged.

I will again say I don’t think you understand how opportunity cost works. Multiple first round picks used on Euro’s means our team is going to have more Euro’s than NA players. It doesn’t matter if NA typically produces better talent as a whole if we aren’t picking NA players with premium picks. And our scouts have been making the right call as far as that goes with Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson. Hell probably with Kasper too.

You guys can point to other teams hitting on NA players in rounds 2, 3, 4 but that doesn’t make it any easier to hit on picks in that range. Feel free to tell us what players we should draft in that range if you think it’s easy to do. (This goes for anyone, not just you)

 

[Frk It]

And just in case you need to hear me say it out loud for whatever reason….

Not only do I think our NA scouting was bad under Holland/Wright, I think our amateur scouting in general was bad during those years and it set the franchise back considerably.

The first top 10 pick of this re-build was Michael Rasmussen and I would have never f***ing done that.

 

[deca guard]

goes to show how important 1st rd pix are . ide like to trade for another 1st this draft since everybody rates draft group so weak making pix cheaper to aquire because yzerman will still dig another top prospect up in a weak draft

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

And just in case you need to hear me say it out loud for whatever reason….

Not only do I think our NA scouting was bad under Holland/Wright, I think our amateur scouting in general was bad during those years and it set the franchise back considerably.

The first top 10 pick of this re-build was Michael Rasmussen and I would have never f***ing done that.

I remember exactly where I was at when I saw the pick.

 

[Winger98]

goes to show how important 1st rd pix are . ide like to trade for another 1st this draft since everybody rates draft group so weak making pix cheaper to aquire because yzerman will still dig another top prospect up in a weak draft

I do have to wonder how cheap it would be to get another pick in the top20. Would someone like NYR deal 12OA to dump a contract? (they still have it as far as I can tell because it was top13 protected).

 

[deca guard]

I do have to wonder how cheap it would be to get another pick in the top20. Would someone like NYR deal 12OA to dump a contract? (they still have it as far as I can tell because it was top13 protected).

yzermans proving to be a drafting EDGE = utilize this edge