Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[Steve Yzerlland]

I can see him leaving Toronto if they don't win it this year, but I would still be surprised if he came to Detroit.

I think he goes but not Detroit. Wish he would come here. We are instantly a lot better. But what would be our sales pitch? " Hey, do you want to leave your hometown and come to Detroit where we are rebuilding?"

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Larkin sales pitch gotta be strong, close to home and we have a sweet setup is about it. Oh and money.

 

[stillwater]

I can see him leaving Toronto if they don't win it this year, but I would still be surprised if he came to Detroit.

I'd put the chances of Marner returning to TO as slim and none, regardless of playoff outcome.

They wanted to move him for Rantenan at the deadline.

If they win, the curse is over ... no longer any need for Marner, they've already won. If they don't win, the scuttlebutt will be all about it being Marner and Matthews fault. Right or wrong, Marner is gone.

 

[Winger98]

I think he goes but not Detroit. Wish he would come here. We are instantly a lot better. But what would be our sales pitch? " Hey, do you want to leave your hometown and come to Detroit where we are rebuilding?"

Original Six, not Toronto but close enough for family to be near, Yzerman would have to sell how well the rebuild is going and his place in it, and our media isn't bat shit crazy and won't make his life hell. I don't know if it would matter, but maybe also the opportunity to stick it to toronto from a long term rival.

I'd put the chances of Marner returning to TO as slim and none, regardless of playoff outcome.

They wanted to move him for Rantenan at the deadline.

If they win, the curse is over ... no longer any need for Marner, they've already won. If the don't win, the scuttlebutt will be all about it being Marner and Matthews fault. Right or wrong, Marner is gone.

totally forgot the Rantenan thing. Yeah, I have a hard time seeing him go back with that. I also have to wonder what Toronto was thinking asking him to waive. They had to know he wasn't coming back and thought for sure he'd go to Colorado. Seems like such a crazy thing for a team in Toronto's place to do, though.

 

[jkutswings]

Let's pretend for a moment that Florida wins the next game, and the summer in Toronto is so ugly that they decide to move on from Marner and Tavares and Matthews.

If you could only chase 1, who would it be?

Marner as a free agent, so it only costs money?
Tavares for the lowest cap hit?
Or Matthews for the highest ceiling (and opportunity cost)?

(I left out Nylander because I think he's the least likely to move.)

 

[Ricelund]

I'd 100% take Marner. These guys don't grow on trees. Everyone on this board is clamoring for elite talent... if Toronto pushes him out, Yzerman has to take a shot.

Remember when Datsyuk and Hossa were known as playoff chokers?

 

[saska sault]

Let's pretend for a moment that Florida wins the next game, and the summer in Toronto is so ugly that they decide to move on from Marner and Tavares and Matthews.

If you could only chase 1, who would it be?

Marner as a free agent, so it only costs money?
Tavares for the lowest cap hit?
Or Matthews for the highest ceiling (and opportunity cost)?
(I left out Nylander because I think he's the least likely to move.)

Honestly any of the 3... but not considering contract, going by pure skill and age

1 - Matthews
2 - Marner
3 - Tavares

 

[KJoe88]

What’s this news about the Wings supposedly signing Provorov to and $8 million by contract totaling like $58 million or something?

 

[RedHawkDown]

What’s this news about the Wings supposedly signing Provorov to and $8 million by contract totaling like $58 million or something?

It's not news. It's actually an insane article because it's about a guy on PuckGM suggesting that the Wings sign Provorov to that contract, and then they wrote a whole article about it. Almost certainly AI written.

 

[Reddwit]

What’s this news about the Wings supposedly signing Provorov to and $8 million by contract totaling like $58 million or something?

Uh, I just googled that and the only thing that comes up is a website reporting that a Puck pedia user proposed a junk trade for Provorov, lol.

Is this what the internet has come to? Making “articles” about fan proposals? Jesus take the wheel.

 

[jkutswings]

Uh, I just googled that and the only thing that comes up is a website reporting that a Puck pedia user proposed a junk trade for Provorov, lol.

Is this what the internet has come to? Making “articles” about fan proposals? Jesus take the wheel.

Eklund: The Godfather of AI.

 

[Gniwder]

Eklund: The Godfather of AI.

You mean AU. Artificial Unintelligence, lol.


Based on Stevie's track record, I've come to the conclusion that Matt Millen would have lasted at least 2 more years if he had played for the Lions, lol.

 

[lilidk]

If Larkin not traded our first line center , gets LW that actually can do dirty job and understand what other guys doing. Hopefully Compher just had bad season and bounced back. Maybe we could have third line Amo Kasper MBN.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I know I’m beating a dead horse but I also just want to reiterate that we had 3 picks in that 2020 2nd round and 21/30 players have made the NHL. The likelihood of each of our 3 picks not making it is 2.1%.

 

[deca guard]

- just like we had cap to long term sign side'z n ray'z i want that for eddie-kasper-dannyson-pelli-cossa-etc
- i dont want to be locked into 13 per for marner then come up short of cap 2028 . im gunning to create a dynasty with all our own draft pix signed long term
- for now its the classic yzerman dollar store event on july 1 while prospects develop :
- JEANNOT , signed long term . very important to this roster
- NELSON , to provide temporary center depth after trading larkin
- ORLOV , to play on 2nd pair so eddie can play on 1 with side'z
- both nelly n orlov signed to short term 2/3 year deals so have cap to sign prospects big contracts
- dont sign a 28 year old marner 7 years instead save cap to sign a 23 year old edvinsson 8 years = prime all 8 years
- trade larkin to utah for the 4th pick = KEEP BUILDING THE PROSPECT POOL THEN SIGNING THEM LONG TERM EARLY
- come 2027/28 i want to be cup runners for the next decade led by seider-ray-kasper-eddie-danny-cossa-pelli-etc , all signed long term with more top prospects arriving . hold onto our assets instead of destinying to lose some when we run out of cap from signing ufa who are beyond prime when our window opens !
- DONT LISTEN TO THE CRY BABYS , INCLUDING THE CAPTAIN , WHINING TO BUILD A RAMBLING WRECK .
IF YZERMAN EXPLAINS THE PROCESS TO FANS THERE'LL BE WAY FEWER DISENCHANTED

 

[Oddbob]

- just like we had cap to long term sign side'z n ray'z i want that for eddie-kasper-dannyson-pelli-cossa-etc
- i dont want to be locked into 13 per for marner then come up short of cap 2028 . im gunning to create a dynasty with all our own draft pix signed long term
- for now its the classic yzerman dollar store event on july 1 while prospects develop :
- JEANNOT , signed long term . very important to this roster
- NELSON , to provide temporary center depth after trading larkin
- ORLOV , to play on 2nd pair so eddie can play on 1 with side'z
- both nelly n orlov signed to short term 3 year deals so have cap to sign prospects big contracts
- dont sign a 28 year old marner 7 years instead save cap to sign a 23 year old edvinsson 8 years = prime all 8 years
- trade larkin to utah for the 4th pick = KEEP BUILDING THE PROSPECT POOL THEN SIGNING THEM LONG TERM EARLY
- come 2027/28 i want to be cup runners for the next decade led by seider-ray-kasper-eddie-danny-cossa-pelli-etc , all signed long term with more top prospects arriving . hold onto our assets instead of destinying to lose some when we run out of cap from signing ufa who are beyond prime when our window opens !
- DONT LISTEN TO THE CRY BABYS , INCLUDING THE CAPTAIN , WHINING TO BUILD A RAMBLING WRECK .
IF YZERMAN EXPLAINS THE PROCESS TO FANS THERE'LL BE WAY FEWER DISENCHANTED

Long term for Jeannot? That is crazy talk. Also, why the heck can't you go after Marner and lock up Ed longterm? Trading Larkin for a future hopeful is a really bad idea, especially this draft as it is considered a weak draft. If Larkin gets traded it has to be an already NHL player who is young, hopefully center, and expected to at least be Larkin level very soon.

 

[jkutswings]

- just like we had cap to long term sign side'z n ray'z i want that for eddie-kasper-dannyson-pelli-cossa-etc
- i dont want to be locked into 13 per for marner then come up short of cap 2028 . im gunning to create a dynasty with all our own draft pix signed long term
- for now its the classic yzerman dollar store event on july 1 while prospects develop :
- JEANNOT , signed long term . very important to this roster
- NELSON , to provide temporary center depth after trading larkin
- ORLOV , to play on 2nd pair so eddie can play on 1 with side'z
- both nelly n orlov signed to short term 2/3 year deals so have cap to sign prospects big contracts
- dont sign a 28 year old marner 7 years instead save cap to sign a 23 year old edvinsson 8 years = prime all 8 years
- trade larkin to utah for the 4th pick = KEEP BUILDING THE PROSPECT POOL THEN SIGNING THEM LONG TERM EARLY
- come 2027/28 i want to be cup runners for the next decade led by seider-ray-kasper-eddie-danny-cossa-pelli-etc , all signed long term with more top prospects arriving . hold onto our assets instead of destinying to lose some when we run out of cap from signing ufa who are beyond prime when our window opens !
- DONT LISTEN TO THE CRY BABYS , INCLUDING THE CAPTAIN , WHINING TO BUILD A RAMBLING WRECK .
IF YZERMAN EXPLAINS THE PROCESS TO FANS THERE'LL BE WAY FEWER DISENCHANTED

The only way this team becomes a dynasty with this degree of dependency on its own draft picks is if ASP becomes Makar and Danielson becomes prime Bergeron. Neither of those expectations are remotely realistic, let alone on track to be realized.

Yes, MOST of your core should be drafted. But it's naive to suggest that it's not also required to be both bold and lucky with your trades and free agent signings to complement those internally developed players.

I can acknowledge the truth that Yzerman has done very well with his early picks without pretending that said success is enough to build a very good roster.

 

[lilidk]

I wouldn’t hate byfield in a deal but ya there’s not many options for dealing larkin so unless Yzerman knows he can get something good for moving him just ignore the kid for now

Or Kasper actually become #1 center. Of course Kasper is never going to be as good as Larkin , but he will have much better Wings and defense than Larkin.

 

[Scottgaf1]

- just like we had cap to long term sign side'z n ray'z i want that for eddie-kasper-dannyson-pelli-cossa-etc
- i dont want to be locked into 13 per for marner then come up short of cap 2028 . im gunning to create a dynasty with all our own draft pix signed long term
- for now its the classic yzerman dollar store event on july 1 while prospects develop :
- JEANNOT , signed long term . very important to this roster
- NELSON , to provide temporary center depth after trading larkin
- ORLOV , to play on 2nd pair so eddie can play on 1 with side'z
- both nelly n orlov signed to short term 2/3 year deals so have cap to sign prospects big contracts
- dont sign a 28 year old marner 7 years instead save cap to sign a 23 year old edvinsson 8 years = prime all 8 years
- trade larkin to utah for the 4th pick = KEEP BUILDING THE PROSPECT POOL THEN SIGNING THEM LONG TERM EARLY
- come 2027/28 i want to be cup runners for the next decade led by seider-ray-kasper-eddie-danny-cossa-pelli-etc , all signed long term with more top prospects arriving . hold onto our assets instead of destinying to lose some when we run out of cap from signing ufa who are beyond prime when our window opens !
- DONT LISTEN TO THE CRY BABYS , INCLUDING THE CAPTAIN , WHINING TO BUILD A RAMBLING WRECK .
IF YZERMAN EXPLAINS THE PROCESS TO FANS THERE'LL BE WAY FEWER DISENCHANTED

I agree that this is the wisest way to build long term. It's a very hard sell to fans though. Is see Yzerman giving in a bit. He will target some FAs for instant help and not go crazy money.

Does adding a Gavrikov long term and adding a Marchand to a 3 yr deal make some sense. Adding another player like Nelson would add some grit. I would love that offseason because it makes this team a playoff team. It adds depth to serious weaknesses.

What it also does is allow Yzerman to lock up more players on long term deals at better bargains.

 

[Gniwder]

I know I’m beating a dead horse but I also just want to reiterate that we had 3 picks in that 2020 2nd round and 21/30 players have made the NHL. The likelihood of each of our 3 picks not making it is 2.1%.

That's not how drafting works. When your scouts suck, it's gonna be much higher likelihood.

At this point there aren't many people here hoping Wallinder, Neiderbach or Hanas will wind up being anything significant. Peterka, Evangelista, and Faber all had some hype pre-draft, but Stevie/Draper/Hakan went for the "safe" picks. Not really sure what the point of a "safe" pick is, especially past the first round because that just means AHL/SHL fodder.

 

[USAHockey97]

That's not how drafting works. When your scouts suck, it's gonna be much higher likelihood.

At this point there aren't many people here hoping Wallinder, Neiderbach or Hanas will wind up being anything significant. Peterka, Evangelista, and Faber all had some hype pre-draft, but Stevie/Draper/Hakan went for the "safe" picks. Not really sure what the point of a "safe" pick is, especially past the first round because that just means AHL/SHL fodder.

Agreed. Building a team of safe picks doesn’t really give you high end players. Outside of the top 3, you need to take some swings. At least mix it up with swings and safe picks.

 

[WF19]

Not sure how the money would work but I'd love to see Bennet, Marner and Gavrikov, Bring up Mazur, ASP and MBN and get rid of some trash.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

There are no "safe picks" in the 2nd round.

 

[Run the Jewels]

There are no "safe picks" in the 2nd round.

I've really liked the picks of Buchelnikov and Plante in the 2nd. My hope is we are far enough along with the top 10 picks that we can start taking some fliers on guys with skill.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Not sure how the money would work but I'd love to see Bennet, Marner and Gavrikov, Bring up Mazur, ASP and MBN and get rid of some trash.

You'd have to throw in draft picks to get rid of guys like Holl and Compher, and possibly include them to move Tank and Copp given the term involved. It also sounds like Gavrikov is open to staying in LA and we know Ken Holland, he will give whatever it takes to extend him.

My priorities would be:

1. Gavrikov. Fills a clear need, makes Detroit's Top 4 on defense very good.
then
2. Marner. Big contributor 5v5, PP and PK.
then
3. Bennett. Would give us great depth at center.