Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I’ll give you that. Didn’t have 2 5’8 guys in the top 6 though and gourde was on the 3rd line, point is 5’11 not 5’8 and has shown for a while he’s one of the best in the league

I don’t think we want to have 3-4 guys under 6 feet on the top 6 if we want to be yearly cup contenders

If Point is 5’11” then I’m 7’5”. He’s only 5’11” with skates and skate guards on.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

If Point is 5’11” then I’m 7’5”. He’s only 5’11” with skates and skate guards on.

Just going by what the sites say by that count Rossi might be 5’7 only when he’s on skates. Can apply that to every player. Either way I don’t think 4 players on your top 6 who aren’t big will lead to much success longterm

 

[ricky0034]

If we are dealing 13oa, I think a guy we might want to target is Mavrik Bourque. He always comes up when people talk offer sheets, and if Dallas knows they might have an issue re-signing him then dealing him might be pretty appealing. A 1st would be better than the 2nd and 3rd they would likely get if he signs an offer sheet somewhere.

I feel so old now, I read that and had a pretty negative reaction of not wanting someone that old followed by confusion about the offer sheet bit because I was thinking of this guy that retired like a decade ago

Rene Bourque Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Rene Bourque, a hockey player from Lac La Biche, ALTA born Dec 10 1981 who was active from 1999 to 2018.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[Winger98]

I feel so old now, I read that and had a pretty negative reaction of not wanting someone that old followed by confusion about the offer sheet bit because I was thinking of this guy that retired like a decade ago

Rene Bourque Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Rene Bourque, a hockey player from Lac La Biche, ALTA born Dec 10 1981 who was active from 1999 to 2018.

www.hockeydb.com

ha! you have me beat, I didn't even remember Renee Bourque

 

[jkutswings]

ha! you have me beat, I didn't even remember Renee Bourque

Didn't he play for Boston forever, then go to Colorado to win a Cup before retiring?

 

[Reddwit]

Not to go too deep into it, but I think I have a bigger problem with the country club attitude of this front office. Yzerman’s pro scouting comments, the lack of progress from those within that department. Most of the staff are former Red Wings and I’m not sure they’re the best Red Wings he could have hired. (Maltby, Draper, Cleary, Fischer). The only two that seem to earn their keep are Lidstrom and Kronwall. Then we have Yzerman’s aggressive presser seeming very arrogant to me. He may not feel he’s on the hot seat because his contributions to the team 20-40 years ago, but he should.

Larkin has stuck around for 6 years being told we’d get better and that the team was going to be built around him only for Yzerman to get gun shy after 2023. Would DeBrincat even be a Red Wing if he didn’t force his way out? What would Yzerman have done if that move wasn’t there?

Maybe it’s not a lack of leadership from the players. Maybe the Wings ownership isn’t that great in the new NHL? And maybe our front office is f***ed up?

I’ve got the same take. This whole situation feels like Yzerman saying “how dare you question my judgment.” You can extend that attitude to Cleary and Draper too. Very much a “I’ve won Cups here, what have you won?” attitude towards Larkin. But just because you knew how to win as a player on the ice doesn’t mean you have a brain for the game off of it.

Larkin, on the other hand, has fallen victim to his own lack of tact and occasional pouty attitude but is otherwise justified in his complaints, IMO. Yzerman has basically done f*** all of significance if it hasn’t fallen into his lap. If it weren’t for his amateur scouting team, he’d have zero big wins here as a GM. I somewhat get the sense that Yzerman’s strong reaction to Larkin’s complaints means Yzerman knows Larkin’s right.

 

[rangersblues]

Just going by what the sites say by that count Rossi might be 5’7 only when he’s on skates. Can apply that to every player. Either way I don’t think 4 players on your top 6 who aren’t big will lead to much success longterm

Or short term. IF you're lucky enough to make the playoffs you'd be fortunate to win a game.

 

[deca guard]

I’ve got the same take. This whole situation feels like Yzerman saying “how dare you question my judgment.” You can extend that attitude to Cleary and Draper too. Very much a “I’ve won Cups here, what have you won?” attitude towards Larkin. But just because you knew how to win as a player on the ice doesn’t mean you have a brain for the game off of it.

Larkin, on the other hand, has fallen victim to his own lack of tact and occasional pouty attitude but is otherwise justified in his complaints, IMO. Yzerman has basically done f*** all of significance if it hasn’t fallen into his lap. If it weren’t for his amateur scouting team, he’d have zero big wins here as a GM. I somewhat get the sense that Yzerman’s strong reaction to Larkin’s complaints means Yzerman knows Larkin’s right.

do you somewhat get the sense that if yzerman signed better ufa such as hamilton , and traded draft pix for better players that he still wouldnt have been able to create a long term cup runner because those arent the ways that you add elite players that can only be added thru the draft . and by spending future cap he wouldnt have had it to sign his own prospects like eddie n kasper long term cuz cap space would be gone at 9$ per for the next 3 to injury prone hamilton . and at same time the flow of new elite prospects wouldnt be as vigorous as it is now which would limit the ceiling of how long term excellent red wings could end up being because he woulda traded the 17th for a solid but not great player to imprive today att the cost of losing possibly a great player in asp ????????. instead just becoming a short term flash in the pan with guys like hamilton and the solid but not great players he could have traded draft pix for . do you get the sense that yzerman got as close as you can get in a capped league to building a dynasty in tbay , and that he just might know more than john q public about building an nhl team after having just spending the past 4 decades of his life living amongst the nhl commuinity and learning from the best hockey minds on earth ??????? and yzermans comments were because players , ecspecially team captains have no business criticizing their front office in public !!!!!!!! larkin gets paid millions of dollars to be a loyal organization member supporting the front office and he does not get paid to hold an eric cartman tea party with the media !!!! i love larks and think hes a great underrated player , but criticizing front office to media was out of bounds , but nobodys perfect and its difficult being grilled by the clown media 24/7 so anybody eventually mis-speaks . and at same time imo yzerman mis-spoke by reacting to larks comments when he should have just let it go . both men learned lessons over this matter that should just make them smarter/better for the future with this all becoming water under the bridge

 

[PelagicJoe]

Larkin is not getting traded unless it's for something Stevie can't refuse, like McDavid or Makar.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Call Ken Holland now and see what plugs he wants.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Larkin is not getting traded unless it's for something Stevie can't refuse, like McDavid or Makar.

Larkin isn't getting traded because he has a NMC not because his price can't be had.......

 

[Ricelund]

Call Ken Holland now and see what plugs he wants.

Rasmussen & Berggren for Byfield?

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Larkin isn't getting traded because he has a NMC not because his price can't be had.......

I’d say both . He would no doubt block a trade with his nmc but also how many teams would realistically be able to give Yzerman what he wants? I said l.a would probably be the only team if they were about to move byfield cause of the last 4 post seasons and tried to win now and even that’s doubtful

Utah if he can draft a desnoyers at 4? + other assets .... Yzerman won’t trade larkin for guys who’s contracts end soon or mid 1sts. If larkin came in and demanded a trade to Florida let’s say Yzerman would tell him to stfu and work his ass off if he wants a cup and stop whining like a little girl to the media

I could be wrong but I don’t think he’s force Yzerman into dealing him for peanuts cause he wants out. Anyways unless Yzerman makes his life a living hell and forces him to waive his nmc larkin won’t

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Rasmussen & Berggren for Byfield?

As a joke not funny. As an offer funny.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

do you somewhat get the sense that if yzerman signed better ufa such as hamilton , and traded draft pix for better players that he still wouldnt have been able to create a long term cup runner because those arent the ways that you add elite players that can only be added thru the draft . and by spending future cap he wouldnt have had it to sign his own prospects like eddie n kasper long term cuz cap space would be gone at 9$ per for the next 3 to injury prone hamilton . and at same time the flow of new elite prospects wouldnt be as vigorous as it is now which would limit the ceiling of how long term excellent red wings could end up being because he woulda traded the 17th for a solid but not great player to imprive today att the cost of losing possibly a great player in asp ????????. instead just becoming a short term flash in the pan with guys like hamilton and the solid but not great players he could have traded draft pix for . do you get the sense that yzerman got as close as you can get in a capped league to building a dynasty in tbay , and that he just might know more than john q public about building an nhl team after having just spending the past 4 decades of his life living amongst the nhl commuinity and learning from the best hockey minds on earth ??????? and yzermans comments were because players , ecspecially team captains have no business criticizing their front office in public !!!!!!!! larkin gets paid millions of dollars to be a loyal organization member supporting the front office and he does not get paid to hold an eric cartman tea party with the media !!!! i love larks and think hes a great underrated player , but criticizing front office to media was out of bounds , but nobodys perfect and its difficult being grilled by the clown media 24/7 so anybody eventually mis-speaks . and at same time imo yzerman mis-spoke by reacting to larks comments when he should have just let it go . both men learned lessons over this matter that should just make them smarter/better for the future with this all becoming water under the bridge

This is the second time you bring up spending on Hamilton. I’m not sure why the obsession with him because there were very few if any Wings fans here screaming to sign him long term.

Second, Hamilton is still a top pair defenseman who has averaged 64 points per 82 games the last 3 seasons. That’s better than any defenseman in Detroit since Lidstrom. That’s a true impact player.

Third, could we have done better by signing guys like him both long AND short term? YES. NJ signed Hamilton 2 years after they drafted Hughes. Then they drafted Luke Hughes. Signed Palat who has been a solid vet depth piece for them. Traded for Meier. Signed Pesce. The only move Detroit made that was better? Trading for DeBrincat when you compare wingers. New Jersey’s biggest failings have been the health of Jack Hughes who can’t play more than 62 games a year, poor coaching, and poor goaltending.

Detroit’s failings? Poor GMing that has led to awful free agent signings and trades, poor coaching up until McLellan, poor goaltending, poor defense. And there’s a good chance the poor GMing is going to keep Detroit as a lottery level team the next two seasons because Yzerman doesn’t like to “perform major roster surgery.” Meanwhile, the Devils have been a playoff team and are poised to pick up Quinn Hughes sometime in the next 12 months to get even better.

Stop drinking the Yzerman is god kool-aid. He’s made numerous mistakes and unless he spends a ton of money and futures in 2025 this team is picking 8-12 again because he’s too chickenshit to give his star players actual good support.

 

[Gniwder]

Your problem with the comparison is Washington is as long as Ovechkin is there in a try and win now mode. So they would trade assets etc to re-tool, which they did. They did a great job.

Detroit is building through the draft, and doing well so far. Their 1st rounders are hitting and the 2nd-4th or even lower is developing but they are still not at an age yet where one can cast votes to whether they managed to hit or not.

If the prospects hit on the high end of their expectations with some additions through FA or potential trade, this is going to be a team competing for cups.

"The worst GM" perspective is just piss from those who think its a video game and not real life.

The Caps were all about getting Ovy the record, not so much "win now". Not to mention that they didn't spend much in assets to acquire talent. Jensen and third for Chych sounds a hell of a lot better than Walman plus 2nd for nothing. PLD for Keumper, Eller for 3rd and 5th, Thompson for two 3rds, Roy from free agency. They still have their first round pick.

Video game or real life, you don't sign Gus, Tank, Motte, and Waston while getting rid of Sprong, Walman, Perron and Ghost.

We should have a poll to see who's still drinking the Yzerplan Kool Aid.

 

[schuelma24]

The Caps were all about getting Ovy the record, not so much "win now". Not to mention that they didn't spend much in assets to acquire talent. Jensen and third for Chych sounds a hell of a lot better than Walman plus 2nd for nothing. PLD for Keumper, Eller for 3rd and 5th, Thompson for two 3rds, Roy from free agency. They still have their first round pick.

Video game or real life, you don't sign Gus, Tank, Motte, and Waston while getting rid of Sprong, Walman, Perron and Ghost.

We should have a poll to see who's still drinking the Yzerplan Kool Aid.

I know he's working out for now, but if Yzerman had acquired PLD's contract this summer we would have all lost our freaking minds.

I think the point is valid in that Washington had a lot less to lose to were willing to take more risks.

 

[cvaicunas]

Been watching Bennet these playoffs, and now I'm talking myself into wanting to see the Wings pay for him this FA.

 

[RedHawkDown]

do you somewhat get the sense that if yzerman signed better ufa such as hamilton , and traded draft pix for better players that he still wouldnt have been able to create a long term cup runner because those arent the ways that you add elite players that can only be added thru the draft . and by spending future cap he wouldnt have had it to sign his own prospects like eddie n kasper long term cuz cap space would be gone at 9$ per for the next 3 to injury prone hamilton . and at same time the flow of new elite prospects wouldnt be as vigorous as it is now which would limit the ceiling of how long term excellent red wings could end up being because he woulda traded the 17th for a solid but not great player to imprive today att the cost of losing possibly a great player in asp ????????. instead just becoming a short term flash in the pan with guys like hamilton and the solid but not great players he could have traded draft pix for . do you get the sense that yzerman got as close as you can get in a capped league to building a dynasty in tbay , and that he just might know more than john q public about building an nhl team after having just spending the past 4 decades of his life living amongst the nhl commuinity and learning from the best hockey minds on earth ??????? and yzermans comments were because players , ecspecially team captains have no business criticizing their front office in public !!!!!!!! larkin gets paid millions of dollars to be a loyal organization member supporting the front office and he does not get paid to hold an eric cartman tea party with the media !!!! i love larks and think hes a great underrated player , but criticizing front office to media was out of bounds , but nobodys perfect and its difficult being grilled by the clown media 24/7 so anybody eventually mis-speaks . and at same time imo yzerman mis-spoke by reacting to larks comments when he should have just let it go . both men learned lessons over this matter that should just make them smarter/better for the future with this all becoming water under the bridge

St Louis paid a 2nd for Holloway who is now a top line power forward.

Montreal traded pacioretty for Suzuki who is now a top line C and willed them to the playoffs.

You know who else hoards picks and tries only to build through the draft while adding shitty veterans? The Buffalo Sabres.

Yzerman is not a good GM. He’s good at drafting, and that’s it.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I know he's working out for now, but if Yzerman had acquired PLD's contract this summer we would have all lost our freaking minds.

I think the point is valid in that Washington had a lot less to lose to were willing to take more risks.

How do they have less to lose?

They traded minimal assets for all the guys they picked up. We traded more to get rid of Walman than they did to acquire Chychrun lol.

 

[schuelma24]

How do they have less to lose?

They traded minimal assets for all the guys they picked up. We traded more to get rid of Walman than they did to acquire Chychrun lol.

You would have been fine taking on PLD’s contract? Seriously?

 

[Winger98]

For the record, I still have no interest in PLD's contract.

 

[RedHawkDown]

You would have been fine taking on PLD’s contract? Seriously?

PLD is making 600K more than Debrincat while putting up the same number of points last season and playing C with good 2way play. Hes a bit overpaid based on his past and it’s a long contract but with the cap going up it’s hardly some sort of albatross.

It’s also one of several shrewd deals they made including signing Strome, who has been incredible.

The fact of the matter is that Detroit is among the bottom 10 teams in the league at finding talent outside the draft. Yzerman has failed spectacularly at it outside of the one player that forced himself here. You are living in fantasy land if you can’t see this.

 

[schuelma24]

Yzerman has failed spectacularly at it outside of the one player that forced himself here. You are living in fantasy land if you can’t see this.

Please note where I said anything relating to this sentence. Without getting into the whole Yzerman debate, which IMO is much more complex than you and others are making it out to be, I'm literally just talking about the Capitals and PLD. For a team trying to open a Cup window, I maintain that we would have collectively lost our shit at taking on PLD's contract. Good for the Caps who took a risk and had it pay off for at least a year.

 

[Winger98]

PLD is making 600K more than Debrincat while putting up the same number of points last season and playing C with good 2way play. Hes a bit overpaid based on his past and it’s a long contract but with the cap going up it’s hardly some sort of albatross.

It’s also one of several shrewd deals they made including signing Strome, who has been incredible.

The fact of the matter is that Detroit is among the bottom 10 teams in the league at finding talent outside the draft. Yzerman has failed spectacularly at it outside of the one player that forced himself here. You are living in fantasy land if you can’t see this.

I wouldn't have called him overpaid this year, but he also decided to show up. The guy has a long history of apparent motivation issues and not living up to his abilities, and bottomed out in LA. That's not something I really want around the Wings. At least not right now where he'd be expected to be one of our main guys.

He seems to have ended up in a situation that's good for him, so wish the guy luck.