Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[Petes2424]

Told to keep an eye on Nic Hague with Detroit or Montreal.

He’s now the 2nd Dman I’ve heard about with Detroit, not counting Ekblad, who some think they’ll make a play for but that’s coming more from media circles.

As for Hague, he’s almost guaranteed to be moved (due to arbitration) and Detroit is one of the likely destinations, as he fits more age wise, brings some of what they lack on the backend, and they have a couple of D prospects Vegas would be interested in. Not to mention, he fits the type of Dmen Yzerman has a history of acquiring in Tampa.

Vegas will also have interest in someone like Ben Chiarot, on a 1yr deal next season, to take Hague’s minutes. Whether Chiarot would be part of any deal, can’t say, but I’m told the plan in Detroit going into the off-season is, to clean house on the backend with only 77, 53, and 20 being on the roster. That they’d like to turn the others completely. Whether they can make it happen or not, we’ll find out.

One thing of note, while that’s their goal, don’t be surprised with who they target. It’ll be Dmen to build around 53 and 77, with ASP also being thought about. Meaning they’re going to target a vet to help shelter ASP if he’s in the NHL next year. Which is exactly why the other Dman I’ve heard makes a lot of sense.

Back to Hague, Detroit won’t be the only ones interested in him.. I’ve heard Calgary connected to him a few weeks ago, and now Montreal and Detroit.

He’s a very interesting target. Even though Hague hasn’t taken that’ll so-called next step yet, he doesn’t get the opportunity very often with their Top 4 either. He’s the exact type of Dman who’s going to blossom with more opportunities and he’d get that in Detroit, likely playing with Seider.

He can play both sides without any issues as well, and he can carry a 3rd pairing.

Adding another 6’5” Dman is very Steve Yzerman as well. Remember when Yzerman traded for Cernak, is how it was pointed out to me. Hague has a lot of those same qualities, plus a ton of experience already. Including 40 playoff games, and a Stanley Cup.

With a little more opportunity in Detroit, he’s a smart target as he enters his prime.

Probably going to cost a 2nd or 3rd with a sweetener like Tuomisto or Buium. That’s my guess.

Like I said, he’s the second Dman I’ve heard connected to the Wings having interest in. The other one is Ryan Lindgren, because of the success he had playing with Fox in NY. He’d be a real good partner for ASP on a bottom pairing, but he’s also interchangeable. He can play with Seider or even carry a 3rd pairing with another vet, or Anton Johansson.

I’ve heard his name with Detroit since the beginning of this past season. Now he’s a UFA, so we’re going to find out how interested they’ve actually been. He has a great track record sheltering young Dmen and he’ll kill penalties as well. He can also play different roles.

Speaking of Anton Johansson? He’s a lot closer than even Detroit thought. There were a lot of scouts who thought he would be much better on the smaller ice in NA, and that seems to be the case. By far GR’s best Dman down the stretch, and he’s only going to get better with his angles, etc now. Do NOT be surprised if he makes the team out of camp, and ASP spends 30-40 games in GR.

He’s in the discussion. Jumped right past the 3 in GR already, and most nights, he was the best Dman on the ice, including from opposing teams. He just gets the job done play after play, and he’s a real strong kid too. Don’t sleep on him.

A couple of other things?

Kane wants to stay. So as long as they want him back, that should get done. With the kids they want to give opportunities to, I don’t think that will cause Yzerman to pass on him, but that’s the only concern. When they originally talked 20 months ago, or whatever it was, this was always the plan. To play in Detroit until he’s done. So far nothings changed on that. If anything it’s a stronger relationship. His young family has some roots now, and that’s important when you have little kids. He’s also been a leader and part of building something, and knows Detroit gives their former players opportunities after hockey. So it’s still a great fit for him.

They’d also like to trade their 13th overall pick for a core player if they can. Haven’t heard much of what would be out there.

As for the Larkin situation, it’s something to watch over the next year or so.

Let’s just say Yzerman wasn’t happy with Larkin’s comments after the season, and that’s not where this all started either. Yzerman was not happy with Larkin’s play or leadership down there stretch. Supposedly, this goes back to 4Nations, where there was a conversation between Larkin, Draper and Cleary, that the team felt was out of line. That Larkin was almost trying to dictate moves the team should make.

So this thing could boil over.. Especially, if as many expect, the Wings take a step backwards next year, as they move more kids into the lineup. Something that was explained to Larkin before the deadline in 2024 btw. He was told they would likely have 2-3 more seasons before they’d compete consistently again. All up front, before he signed his wealth contract. Yet not a year later, he was complaining? So it’s not gone over well. Especially being their captain.

It’s also no secret Yzerman doesn’t see Larkin as many fans do. So this one could get ugly as soon as next deadline, if they’re sitting at the bottom of the standings. Fact is, they’re where NJ was a few years ago. Lots of ups and downs. That turned into NJ picking 2nd and 4th or 5th again, after they had made the playoffs. The Wings probably won too much these last two years in all honesty, because their kids have been better sooner than they expected. That doesn’t mean that big step backwards we always see as teams filter through their young players, isn’t coming this year. The old, take a step backwards, before taking two steps forward and truly competing thing.

So it may actually be in their best interest to trade Larkin. The 2-3 nice pieces they’d get in return, would probably help them more in 2-3 years, than Larkin will.

Don’t think that hasn’t gone through Yzerman’s mind, knowing they’re still 2-3 years away from truly competing to win playoff games.

Just something to ponder heading into next year, if the two sides aren’t happy with each other. In my circles, most think they’ll be a lottery team next year. Even if they make some solid moves this summer. The Atlantic is loaded and Columbus, Philly and Buffalo are all expected to take steps. Boston won’t be this bad either. So good bet, they’ll have some lottery balls for MCKenna or Stenberg.

 

[deca guard]

Told to keep an eye on Nic Hague with Detroit or Montreal.

He’s now the 2nd Dman I’ve heard about with Detroit, not counting Ekblad, who some think they’ll make a play for but that’s coming more from media circles.

As for Hague, he’s almost guaranteed to be moved (due to arbitration) and Detroit is one of the likely destinations, as he fits more age wise, brings some of what they lack on the backend, and they have a couple of D prospects Vegas would be interested in. Not to mention, he fits the type of Dmen Yzerman has a history of acquiring in Tampa.

Vegas will also have interest in someone like Ben Chiarot, on a 1yr deal next season, to take Hague’s minutes. Whether Chiarot would be part of any deal, can’t say, but I’m told the plan in Detroit going into the off-season is, to clean house on the backend with only 77, 53, and 20 being on the roster. That they’d like to turn the others completely. Whether they can make it happen or not, we’ll find out.

One thing of note, while that’s their goal, don’t be surprised with who they target. It’ll be Dmen to build around 53 and 77, with ASP also being thought about. Meaning they’re going to target a vet to help shelter ASP if he’s in the NHL next year. Which is exactly why the other Dman I’ve heard makes a lot of sense.

Back to Hague, Detroit won’t be the only ones interested in him.. I’ve heard Calgary connected to him a few weeks ago, and now Montreal and Detroit.

He’s a very interesting target. Even though Hague hasn’t taken that’ll so-called next step yet, he doesn’t get the opportunity very often with their Top 4 either. He’s the exact type of Dman who’s going to blossom with more opportunities and he’d get that in Detroit, likely playing with Seider.

He can play both sides without any issues as well, and he can carry a 3rd pairing.

Adding another 6’5” Dman is very Steve Yzerman as well. Remember when Yzerman traded for Cernak, is how it was pointed out to me. Hague has a lot of those same qualities, plus a ton of experience already. Including 40 playoff games, and a Stanley Cup.

With a little more opportunity in Detroit, he’s a smart target as he enters his prime.

Probably going to cost a 2nd or 3rd with a sweetener like Tuomisto or Buium. That’s my guess.

Like I said, he’s the second Dman I’ve heard connected to the Wings having interest in. The other one is Ryan Lindgren, because of the success he had playing with Fox in NY. He’d be a real good partner for ASP on a bottom pairing, but he’s also interchangeable. He can play with Seider or even carry a 3rd pairing with another vet, or Anton Johansson.

I’ve heard his name with Detroit since the beginning of this past season. Now he’s a UFA, so we’re going to find out how interested they’ve actually been. He has a great track record sheltering young Dmen and he’ll kill penalties as well. He can also play different roles.

Speaking of Anton Johansson? He’s a lot closer than even Detroit thought. There were a lot of scouts who thought he would be much better on the smaller ice in NA, and that seems to be the case. By far GR’s best Dman down the stretch, and he’s only going to get better with his angles, etc now. Do NOT be surprised if he makes the team out of camp, and ASP spends 30-40 games in GR.

He’s in the discussion. Jumped right past the 3 in GR already, and most nights, he was the best Dman on the ice, including from opposing teams. He just gets the job done play after play, and he’s a real strong kid too. Don’t sleep on him.

A couple of other things?

Kane wants to stay. So as long as they want him back, that should get done. With the kids they want to give opportunities to, I don’t think that will cause Yzerman to pass on him, but that’s the only concern. When they originally talked 20 months ago, or whatever it was, this was always the plan. To play in Detroit until he’s done. So far nothings changed on that. If anything it’s a stronger relationship. His young family has some roots now, and that’s important when you have little kids. He’s also been a leader and part of building something, and knows Detroit gives their former players opportunities after hockey. So it’s still a great fit for him.

They’d also like to trade their 13th overall pick for a core player if they can. Haven’t heard much of what would be out there.

As for the Larkin situation, it’s something to watch over the next year or so.

Let’s just say Yzerman wasn’t happy with Larkin’s comments after the season, and that’s not where this all started either. Yzerman was not happy with Larkin’s play or leadership down there stretch. Supposedly, this goes back to 4Nations, where there was a conversation between Larkin, Draper and Cleary, that the team felt was out of line. That Larkin was almost trying to dictate moves the team should make.

So this thing could boil over.. Especially, if as many expect, the Wings take a step backwards next year, as they move more kids into the lineup. Something that was explained to Larkin before the deadline in 2024 btw. He was told they would likely have 2-3 more seasons before they’d compete consistently again. All up front, before he signed his wealth contract. Yet not a year later, he was complaining? So it’s not gone over well. Especially being their captain.

It’s also no secret Yzerman doesn’t see Larkin as many fans do. So this one could get ugly as soon as next deadline, if they’re sitting at the bottom of the standings. Fact is, they’re where NJ was a few years ago. Lots of ups and downs. That turned into NJ picking 2nd and 4th or 5th again, after they had made the playoffs. The Wings probably won too much these last two years in all honesty, because their kids have been better sooner than they expected. That doesn’t mean that big step backwards we always see as teams filter through their young players, isn’t coming this year. The old, take a step backwards, before taking two steps forward and truly competing thing.

So it may actually be in their best interest to trade Larkin. The 2-3 nice pieces they’d get in return, would probably help them more in 2-3 years, than Larkin will.

Don’t think that hasn’t gone through Yzerman’s mind, knowing they’re still 2-3 years away from truly competing to win playoff games.

Just something to ponder heading into next year, if the two sides aren’t happy with each other. In my circles, most think they’ll be a lottery team next year. Even if they make some solid moves this summer. The Atlantic is loaded and Columbus, Philly and Buffalo are all expected to take steps. Boston won’t be this bad either. So good bet, they’ll have some lottery balls for MCKenna or Stenberg.

so much to digest here , happily i like just about all of it . only parts i disagree with are moving chariot who i like as a 3rd pair physical source to babysit new arrivals . and trading the 13th because i want 'the bc sage' calling in another core player . though i also add wouldnt like seeing boom traded .

 

[drwings40]

Told to keep an eye on Nic Hague with Detroit or Montreal.

He’s now the 2nd Dman I’ve heard about with Detroit, not counting Ekblad, who some think they’ll make a play for but that’s coming more from media circles.

As for Hague, he’s almost guaranteed to be moved (due to arbitration) and Detroit is one of the likely destinations, as he fits more age wise, brings some of what they lack on the backend, and they have a couple of D prospects Vegas would be interested in. Not to mention, he fits the type of Dmen Yzerman has a history of acquiring in Tampa.

Vegas will also have interest in someone like Ben Chiarot, on a 1yr deal next season, to take Hague’s minutes. Whether Chiarot would be part of any deal, can’t say, but I’m told the plan in Detroit going into the off-season is, to clean house on the backend with only 77, 53, and 20 being on the roster. That they’d like to turn the others completely. Whether they can make it happen or not, we’ll find out.

One thing of note, while that’s their goal, don’t be surprised with who they target. It’ll be Dmen to build around 53 and 77, with ASP also being thought about. Meaning they’re going to target a vet to help shelter ASP if he’s in the NHL next year. Which is exactly why the other Dman I’ve heard makes a lot of sense.

Back to Hague, Detroit won’t be the only ones interested in him.. I’ve heard Calgary connected to him a few weeks ago, and now Montreal and Detroit.

He’s a very interesting target. Even though Hague hasn’t taken that’ll so-called next step yet, he doesn’t get the opportunity very often with their Top 4 either. He’s the exact type of Dman who’s going to blossom with more opportunities and he’d get that in Detroit, likely playing with Seider.

He can play both sides without any issues as well, and he can carry a 3rd pairing.

Adding another 6’5” Dman is very Steve Yzerman as well. Remember when Yzerman traded for Cernak, is how it was pointed out to me. Hague has a lot of those same qualities, plus a ton of experience already. Including 40 playoff games, and a Stanley Cup.

With a little more opportunity in Detroit, he’s a smart target as he enters his prime.

Probably going to cost a 2nd or 3rd with a sweetener like Tuomisto or Buium. That’s my guess.

Like I said, he’s the second Dman I’ve heard connected to the Wings having interest in. The other one is Ryan Lindgren, because of the success he had playing with Fox in NY. He’d be a real good partner for ASP on a bottom pairing, but he’s also interchangeable. He can play with Seider or even carry a 3rd pairing with another vet, or Anton Johansson.

I’ve heard his name with Detroit since the beginning of this past season. Now he’s a UFA, so we’re going to find out how interested they’ve actually been. He has a great track record sheltering young Dmen and he’ll kill penalties as well. He can also play different roles.

Speaking of Anton Johansson? He’s a lot closer than even Detroit thought. There were a lot of scouts who thought he would be much better on the smaller ice in NA, and that seems to be the case. By far GR’s best Dman down the stretch, and he’s only going to get better with his angles, etc now. Do NOT be surprised if he makes the team out of camp, and ASP spends 30-40 games in GR.

He’s in the discussion. Jumped right past the 3 in GR already, and most nights, he was the best Dman on the ice, including from opposing teams. He just gets the job done play after play, and he’s a real strong kid too. Don’t sleep on him.

A couple of other things?

Kane wants to stay. So as long as they want him back, that should get done. With the kids they want to give opportunities to, I don’t think that will cause Yzerman to pass on him, but that’s the only concern. When they originally talked 20 months ago, or whatever it was, this was always the plan. To play in Detroit until he’s done. So far nothings changed on that. If anything it’s a stronger relationship. His young family has some roots now, and that’s important when you have little kids. He’s also been a leader and part of building something, and knows Detroit gives their former players opportunities after hockey. So it’s still a great fit for him.

They’d also like to trade their 13th overall pick for a core player if they can. Haven’t heard much of what would be out there.

As for the Larkin situation, it’s something to watch over the next year or so.

Let’s just say Yzerman wasn’t happy with Larkin’s comments after the season, and that’s not where this all started either. Yzerman was not happy with Larkin’s play or leadership down there stretch. Supposedly, this goes back to 4Nations, where there was a conversation between Larkin, Draper and Cleary, that the team felt was out of line. That Larkin was almost trying to dictate moves the team should make.

So this thing could boil over.. Especially, if as many expect, the Wings take a step backwards next year, as they move more kids into the lineup. Something that was explained to Larkin before the deadline in 2024 btw. He was told they would likely have 2-3 more seasons before they’d compete consistently again. All up front, before he signed his wealth contract. Yet not a year later, he was complaining? So it’s not gone over well. Especially being their captain.

It’s also no secret Yzerman doesn’t see Larkin as many fans do. So this one could get ugly as soon as next deadline, if they’re sitting at the bottom of the standings. Fact is, they’re where NJ was a few years ago. Lots of ups and downs. That turned into NJ picking 2nd and 4th or 5th again, after they had made the playoffs. The Wings probably won too much these last two years in all honesty, because their kids have been better sooner than they expected. That doesn’t mean that big step backwards we always see as teams filter through their young players, isn’t coming this year. The old, take a step backwards, before taking two steps forward and truly competing thing.

So it may actually be in their best interest to trade Larkin. The 2-3 nice pieces they’d get in return, would probably help them more in 2-3 years, than Larkin will.

Don’t think that hasn’t gone through Yzerman’s mind, knowing they’re still 2-3 years away from truly competing to win playoff games.

Just something to ponder heading into next year, if the two sides aren’t happy with each other. In my circles, most think they’ll be a lottery team next year. Even if they make some solid moves this summer. The Atlantic is loaded and Columbus, Philly and Buffalo are all expected to take steps. Boston won’t be this bad either. So good bet, they’ll have some lottery balls for MCKenna or Stenberg.

Thanks for the insight, much appreciated.

Altough I'll believe it, when I actually see it. Too much speculation in the past years, but nothing come to fruition.

 

[Lampedampe]

Zero interest in Hague, doesn't look very impressive and he only averaged 16 icetime a game.

Just awful possession stats on top.

 

[jkutswings]

I appreciate the thoughts. I just don't understand the dichotomy.

Why would Detroit turn over their defense and shop their first round pick to improve the roster... and then be willing (let alone intend) to take a step backward in the standings and wait another year or two to make the playoffs, possibly even trading Larkin along the way?

If that's true, then I feel like this front office has schizophrenia. Why do that nonsense instead of just picking one direction and fully committing? And other than the very hardcore fans, who on Earth would want to continue to watch a product that keeps trying to straddle the fence for a decade?

 

[Winger98]

I appreciate the thoughts. I just don't understand the dichotomy.

Why would Detroit turn over their defense and shop their first round pick to improve the roster... and then be willing (let alone intend) to take a step backward in the standings and wait another year or two to make the playoffs, possibly even trading Larkin along the way?

If that's true, then I feel like this front office has schizophrenia. Why do that nonsense instead of just picking one direction and fully committing? And other than the very hardcore fans, who on Earth would want to continue to watch a product that keeps trying to straddle the fence for a decade?

They turn their defense over because it's not good to surround your kids with crap. And I think it should be pointed out that the guys @Petes2424 is listing aren't norris guys, they are complimentary guys the wings will hope are better fits than the guys they have now. In many ways I think we would be getting the same blueline where the kids will be expected to grow into being the horses back there. And those kids are going to carry whoever they are with regardless of who those guys are.

And you deal the pick because you're trying to get the most value out of it. From Yzerman's past comments, I think a trade is unlikely because whoever is dealing for a 1st isn't likely to be dealing quality players in the early-mid 20s. I don't think a deal is likely just because of what we are reportedly looking for all of the time.

And you take a step back because that's what usually happens when you play more kids. They have five or six guys likely looking at making the team just at forward the next two years. There will likely be growing pains with that.

 

[jkutswings]

They turn their defense over because it's not good to surround your kids with crap. And I think it should be pointed out that the guys @Petes2424 is listing aren't norris guys, they are complimentary guys the wings will hope are better fits than the guys they have now. In many ways I think we would be getting the same blueline where the kids will be expected to grow into being the horses back there. And those kids are going to carry whoever they are with regardless of who those guys are.

And you deal the pick because you're trying to get the most value out of it. From Yzerman's past comments, I think a trade is unlikely because whoever is dealing for a 1st isn't likely to be dealing quality players in the early-mid 20s. I don't think a deal is likely just because of what we are reportedly looking for all of the time.

All fair logic. But even with just average NHL players, that's an improvement over Holl and Petry and Gustafsson. It's making the roster better.

And you take a step back because that's what usually happens when you play more kids. They have five or six guys likely looking at making the team just at forward the next two years. There will likely be growing pains with that.

Five or six? Who? I count Mazur once he's healthy, Danielson later in the season, and eventually MBN and Buchelnikov in another year or two.

If Yzerman thinks that every Finnie and Lombardi 4A player is going to stick in the NHL, then there's the problem (he's fallen in love with his own picks to the point of not being objective).

This isn't adding a slew of kids to a bottom 5 roster. This is continuing to work them in 1-2 at a time to a roster that should be better each season, which should minimize any step backwards.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

My concern with him isn't his size, it is how much were his stats inflated from Kaprizov. He seems to have slowed production wise, when Kaprizov got hurt. 60 pts is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but if it takes a Kaprizov to get him there, I don't think he will be worth his contract.

He had more points with Boldy and Zuccarello.

See for yourself.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

They turn their defense over because it's not good to surround your kids with crap. And I think it should be pointed out that the guys @Petes2424 is listing aren't norris guys, they are complimentary guys the wings will hope are better fits than the guys they have now. In many ways I think we would be getting the same blueline where the kids will be expected to grow into being the horses back there. And those kids are going to carry whoever they are with regardless of who those guys are.

And you deal the pick because you're trying to get the most value out of it. From Yzerman's past comments, I think a trade is unlikely because whoever is dealing for a 1st isn't likely to be dealing quality players in the early-mid 20s. I don't think a deal is likely just because of what we are reportedly looking for all of the time.

And you take a step back because that's what usually happens when you play more kids. They have five or six guys likely looking at making the team just at forward the next two years. There will likely be growing pains with that.

This is the key point. Good teams looking to win playoff games aren't going to want our 13OA pick. They want players who make their team better now. There aren't a ton of teams slipping into true rebuild status either (who would be your prime candidates for the pick).

Turning over the blueline is necessary at this point at least as an objective. It doesn't, however, mean we will significantly improve the team right away in conjunction with a trade of Larkin. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Zero interest in Hague, doesn't look very impressive and he only averaged 16 icetime a game.

Just awful possession stats on top.

I hate this argument every time I see it.

Hague is legit buried by even better vet depth in Vegas. Who is he going to play ahead of? Hanifin? Theodore?

Detroit needs an upgrade on D and Hague is an upgrade. He can block shots, clear the crease and kill penalties. All without looking like a total bum like Holl.

If it costs Tuomisto/Buium and a 2nd or 3rd? Do it. Those guys aren’t every day NHLers.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

This is the key point. Good teams looking to win playoff games aren't going to want our 13OA pick. They want players who make their team better now. There aren't a ton of teams slipping into true rebuild status either (who would be your prime candidates for the pick).

Turning over the blueline is necessary at this point at least as an objective. It doesn't, however, mean we will significantly improve the team right away in conjunction with a trade of Larkin. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

Can you both be right?

I think there are probably a number of other possible conditions that could compel a team to move on from a player and accept a pretty good piece in draft capital. I think the Hague one is kind of a great example. They are incredibly invested in their Top 4; he's good not great young D but is still a bit of a "has he figured it out?" - he's probably too much for them as an RFA and they'd rather keep the 3-4M they would need to spend to keep him and not make a longterm commitment.

From their perspective, moving on from him makes sense because they can reload with a 13OA, and free up 3-4M in cap space to add to their bottom six since they'll have 25M committed to their Top 3 D; and have Whitecloud whose very good - adding in Hague seems redundant.

 

[SirKillalot]

The whole build by the draft is just an excuse to sign shit players for mid-term contracts and be a bubble team for years on end. Stevie's done well with his 1st round picks, but aside from that, he's been just about the worst GM in the league since he re-joined the Wings. Even if the current prospects all hit the high end of expectations, this isn't a Cup team by any means.

Your problem with the comparison is Washington is as long as Ovechkin is there in a try and win now mode. So they would trade assets etc to re-tool, which they did. They did a great job.

Detroit is building through the draft, and doing well so far. Their 1st rounders are hitting and the 2nd-4th or even lower is developing but they are still not at an age yet where one can cast votes to whether they managed to hit or not.

If the prospects hit on the high end of their expectations with some additions through FA or potential trade, this is going to be a team competing for cups.

"The worst GM" perspective is just piss from those who think its a video game and not real life.

Told to keep an eye on Nic Hague with Detroit or Montreal.

He’s now the 2nd Dman I’ve heard about with Detroit, not counting Ekblad, who some think they’ll make a play for but that’s coming more from media circles.

Hague is an interesting player to me. Wouldn't mind him.
Gavrikov could be depending on how high his salary is.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

To echo some others in here, this doesn't add up, how does cleaning house on the blue line and getting better players there end up with the Wings taking a step back in the standings next season?

Love the info Pete2424 gives us, but I wonder how dialed in some of these scouts he talks to really know what is going on in Detroit. It's like two separate pieces of two different plans being put together that don't really fit.

Also Hague good, Lindgren bad, very bad, do not want at all. Ask Avs/Rangers fans about him, it will sound a lot like how Toronto fans talked about Holl on his way out.

 

[19 for president]

I appreciate the thoughts. I just don't understand the dichotomy.

Why would Detroit turn over their defense and shop their first round pick to improve the roster... and then be willing (let alone intend) to take a step backward in the standings and wait another year or two to make the playoffs, possibly even trading Larkin along the way?

If that's true, then I feel like this front office has schizophrenia. Why do that nonsense instead of just picking one direction and fully committing? And other than the very hardcore fans, who on Earth would want to continue to watch a product that keeps trying to straddle the fence for a decade?

I'm kind of with you on this one. If we improve the defense like noted, I find it hard to believe this team isn't better unless the goaltending completely implodes. This doesn't mean we make the playoffs as there are a lot of young teams that could make a step in the Atlantic, but I expect a better looking team.

Move out Tank and Compher. Bring up MBN, Danielson, Mazur, and Antjo or ASP.

MBN-Larkin-Ray (MBN adds a lot of what Kasper did to this line)
DBC-Kasper-Kane (Line drove a lot of offense at the end of the season)
Soderblom-Danielson-Berggren (GR line that could be solid)
Ras-Copp-Mazur (shutdown line with Mazur driving some physicality)
Watson (or a 4th line center with F/O ability)

Seider- New Guy (Please get this man a decent partner)
Ed- Aljo (OK top 4 pair, not spectacular, but hopefully Ed improves his puck control)
Hague- Antjo/ ASP (I don't think this could be worse than Gus/Holl)

Mrazek/Talbot

You've added size, skating ability, and honestly skill over the guys they are largely replacing. I think Yzerman and Co may be severely underestimating the effect getting Seider a competent partner will have on this team. Our 5 on 5 issues are largely due to our inability to activate the D. Getting Seider a partner that allows him to jump will help with odd man rushes. Adding more speed and forechecking ability to our top 6 helps as well. Ras/Copp/Mazur could be the very effective Ras/Copp/Fischer line from a couple of seasons ago but with a bit more skill and hopefully physicality. This is also not taking into account a full camp for Todd & team to implement an actual system instead of the Lalonde mess.

I do think there are a couple of warranted concerns with that lineup in that can MBN and Antjo/ASP handle a full 82 game season coming from the SEL. Kasper handled this well, but also had lower ice times to start off. Also can Mazur stay healthy, as he has had terrible luck. I think having a good 4th line extra forward is important for this reason. I get regression if you are rushing guys, but Danielson & ASP will be D+3, Antjo & Mazur D+5, and MBN D+2 (and noted as maybe the most NHL ready guy in his draft). They also aren't being asked to carry any lines. The closest being Danielson being a center.

With that said I think finding a good vocal vet leader for this team wouldn't be a bad idea. They clearly were missing Perron presence last year, and if you are going younger you need to have the guy in the room that will stand up and tell the kids to get out of their heads. Larkin isn't that guy (I don't think any of Hank, Lids, or Yzerman were for that matter), but you do need that guy in the room too.

If Yzerman wants to tank he'll need to move Larkin, DBC, and probably not bring back Kane.

 

[SirloinUB]

I don't like the idea of Ekblad. He's not a bad player but he has played more than 70 games once in the last 6 seasons.

Hague would be a fine acquisition but I think the idea is romanticized around here and not materially different from other guys we've had such as Maatta/Chairot. Obviously he is younger, so that is a plus.

As for Larkin... I think it's fair to call it a dynamic situation. Overall I still think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion and I hope cooler heads prevail. Seeing guys disappointed in a lack of additions/missing playoffs isn't a bad thing imo, it shows hunger, which I like.

I do think trading Larkin for a younger haul of assets and seeing how the chips fall with Mckenna makes a lot of sense. Despite the solid logic, I'm not sure I actually want to go down that path. Tough call for sure. For me, any trade would have to include at the least a legit Center prospect, a 1st and another solid young asset

 

[TKB]

If the latest update is anywhere near accurate on the Larkin/Draper/Cleary conversation, Larkin is gone within a year.

SY doesn't play that. He will be patient, but he will move on. There was a lot of speculation about Walman being moved on Lalonde's behalf, I am now starting to think it may have been been done to accomodate DL. No matter how pissed he might be, SY's comments at the year end presser was off the charts out of character for him.

Pure speculatin of course.

 

[norrisnick]

I appreciate the thoughts. I just don't understand the dichotomy.

Why would Detroit turn over their defense and shop their first round pick to improve the roster... and then be willing (let alone intend) to take a step backward in the standings and wait another year or two to make the playoffs, possibly even trading Larkin along the way?

If that's true, then I feel like this front office has schizophrenia. Why do that nonsense instead of just picking one direction and fully committing? And other than the very hardcore fans, who on Earth would want to continue to watch a product that keeps trying to straddle the fence for a decade?

Because if you account for practically any outcome, whatever happens... this horoscope looks like it came from a point of foresight.

 

[norrisnick]

He had more points with Boldy and Zuccarello.

See for yourself.

And who are the opposing teams game-planning for? Those guys or Kirill?

It's no shock when you look at splits and see Rossi's numbers in Feb and March, which are months that Kaprizov didn't play at all.

You drop a guy like Kirill at the top of the lineup it slots the guys lower in more advantageous positions. It's the same argument you see with the Wings. If we had more than 1 line that could consistently carry ES play. And more than 2 defensemen that could consistently transition at an NHL level. You'd see better matchups for everyone else. You don't have to play on a line with the superstar for that superstar to create space for you.

 

[Winger98]

All fair logic. But even with just average NHL players, that's an improvement over Holl and Petry and Gustafsson. It's making the roster better.


Five or six? Who? I count Mazur once he's healthy, Danielson later in the season, and eventually MBN and Buchelnikov in another year or two.

If Yzerman thinks that every Finnie and Lombardi 4A player is going to stick in the NHL, then there's the problem (he's fallen in love with his own picks to the point of not being objective).

This isn't adding a slew of kids to a bottom 5 roster. This is continuing to work them in 1-2 at a time to a roster that should be better each season, which should minimize any step backwards.

It upgrades the blueline, yes, but I'm not sold on Lindgren/Hague being a massive upgrade on Chia/Gus/Holl/Petry to the point of seeing it as a hypocrisy to go young and expect a possible fall off.

With the kids, I think all six of those guys get looks, if they aren't dealt. You're right, not all prospects make it, and outside of those six guys there are a bunch of guys we drafted that aren't making it. But I look at all of those guys, and they are all doing things that says they should get a look. They all look like possible nhlers to me. Might Lombardi not work out? Of course, but that doesn't mean he hasn't earned the opportunity.

And the concern isn't just the few kids we add every year. Look at the roster @19 for president put up there. Ray, MBN, Kasper, Mazur, Soder, Danielson, Berggren...that's really young. Ray should be pretty consistent, but the other five we should expect some inconsistent play, some lower production, some questionable decision making. Maybe the team doesn't slip with that, but I don't think it should be surprising if it does even if the kids do well.

I hate this argument every time I see it.

Hague is legit buried by even better vet depth in Vegas. Who is he going to play ahead of? Hanifin? Theodore?

Detroit needs an upgrade on D and Hague is an upgrade. He can block shots, clear the crease and kill penalties. All without looking like a total bum like Holl.

If it costs Tuomisto/Buium and a 2nd or 3rd? Do it. Those guys aren’t every day NHLers.

My problem with Hague is that there is a massive gap between an upgrade over Holl and being our Cernak. Not saying we shouldn't pursue him, but that I think we need to temper our expectations quite a bit. If he exceeds them, great, but I think the likelihood is that he's a 3rd pair guy here, too.

I like Lindgren, too, but I'm not sure he'll be all that different from Chia.

 

[norrisnick]

I hate this argument every time I see it.

Hague is legit buried by even better vet depth in Vegas. Who is he going to play ahead of? Hanifin? Theodore?

Detroit needs an upgrade on D and Hague is an upgrade. He can block shots, clear the crease and kill penalties. All without looking like a total bum like Holl.

If it costs Tuomisto/Buium and a 2nd or 3rd? Do it. Those guys aren’t every day NHLers.

If Hague is buried by better talent. He should be dominating his minutes, right? Like Sergachev was behind Hedman and McDonagh... he's most certainly not doing that in Vegas.

This is Holl this past season

This is Holl his last season in Toronto

Do you see how Holl's role decreased in Detroit and his relative performance increased by not getting caved in near as much?


This is Hague this past season

Hague is getting caved in in sheltered minutes and you expect improvement in a bigger role here?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And who are the opposing teams game-planning for? Those guys or Kirill?

It's no shock when you look at splits and see Rossi's numbers in Feb and March, which are months that Kaprizov didn't play at all.

View attachment 1034956

You drop a guy like Kirill at the top of the lineup it slots the guys lower in more advantageous positions. It's the same argument you see with the Wings. If we had more than 1 line that could consistently carry ES play. And more than 2 defensemen that could consistently transition at an NHL level. You'd see better matchups for everyone else. You don't have to play on a line with the superstar for that superstar to create space for you.

Now do the rest of his team in those months.

From February 1 to March 31

10W - 12L - 2OTL

Boldly in March - 15gp - 11points, -6
Zuccarello in February - 8gp, 1 point, -3
Zuccarello in March - 15gp, 8 points, -5

They didn’t have another player score more than 37 points in a season besides Rossi, Zuccarello, Boldy and Kaprizov.

They also lost Joel Eriksson-Ekk for half of February and all of march. So it wasn’t just Kaprizov that sunk the team.

And for those wondering why Minnesota wants to trade Rossi? 3 of their top players are 5’9” and under. Spurgeon, Rossi, and Zuccarello. Rossi has the most value. It’s not that he’s a bad player.

 

[Lampedampe]

I hate this argument every time I see it.

Hague is legit buried by even better vet depth in Vegas. Who is he going to play ahead of? Hanifin? Theodore?

Detroit needs an upgrade on D and Hague is an upgrade. He can block shots, clear the crease and kill penalties. All without looking like a total bum like Holl.

If it costs Tuomisto/Buium and a 2nd or 3rd? Do it. Those guys aren’t every day NHLers.

Alright, but why is he getting less ice-time than last year, same depth chart, no? Both Pietrangelo and Theodore missed time.

That wasn't my only argument, care to chime in why his possession stats are bad? Surely McNabb, Pietrangelo, Theodore and Hanifin gets tougher matchups. Infact, when looking at the charts he appears to face a lower quality of competition and offensive deployment.

Watching him in the play-offs isn't very encouraging.

Hard pass on a player who's apparently just good at blocking shots and clearing the crease.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

My problem with Hague is that there is a massive gap between an upgrade over Holl and being our Cernak. Not saying we shouldn't pursue him, but that I think we need to temper our expectations quite a bit. If he exceeds them, great, but I think the likelihood is that he's a 3rd pair guy here, too.

I like Lindgren, too, but I'm not sure he'll be all that different from Chia.

Oh, Hague is no Cernak. He’s not nearly as physically imposing. Cernak scares people.

That said, Hague is a guy that is a #4 on an average NHL team. He’d provide an improvement on our bottom pair.

If ASP comes in as good as billed then he’s second pair RD and Hague can play next to him while Edvinsson moves up to the top pair next to Seider. Chiarot can move down to the bottom pair and Johansson can play as 3rd pair RD.

Ed-Seider
Hague-ASP
Chiarot-Johansson

That’s not a sexy defense. I don’t think we make the playoffs with that unless ASP really performs well. Like, top 5 rookie performance. And we’d need goaltending to be at least a .910 or better on average.

 

[Lampedampe]

Oh, Hague is no Cernak. He’s not nearly as physically imposing. Cernak scares people.

That said, Hague is a guy that is a #4 on an average NHL team. He’d provide an improvement on our bottom pair.

If ASP comes in as good as billed then he’s second pair RD and Hague can play next to him while Edvinsson moves up to the top pair next to Seider. Chiarot can move down to the bottom pair and Johansson can play as 3rd pair RD.

Ed-Seider
Hague-ASP
Chiarot-Johansson

That’s not a sexy defense. I don’t think we make the playoffs with that unless ASP really performs well. Like, top 5 rookie performance. And we’d need goaltending to be at least a .910 or better on average.

So a guy that never handled proper top-4 deployment is going to take on the role while sheltering a rookie D-man, a offensive rookie D-man at that.

I'm not saying Hague is useless, but he's not the upgrade this team needs.

Need to get a dman to play with Seider and push down Chiarot to the 3rd pair, he's far better suited playing 18 min a night while focusing on PK.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

To echo some others in here, this doesn't add up, how does cleaning house on the blue line and getting better players there end up with the Wings taking a step back in the standings next season?

Love the info Pete2424 gives us, but I wonder how dialed in some of these scouts he talks to really know what is going on in Detroit. It's like two separate pieces of two different plans being put together that don't really fit.

Also Hague good, Lindgren bad, very bad, do not want at all. Ask Avs/Rangers fans about him, it will sound a lot like how Toronto fans talked about Holl on his way out.

Lindgren was solid in Colorado. Fans just had unrealistic expectations of him. He is a simple, supporting defensemen, not a game breaker that brings you out of your seat. I don't think Avs fans really knew what they were getting to begin with. That is on them.

On the defensive side of the puck I trust him more than I do Hague, although I would be totally fine adding Hague.