Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[DanielMarois]

I want either Provorov or Gavrikov because I miss having Russians on the team .

 

[19 for president]

An upgrade on D I think is the most pressing issue. I'm ok overpaying a bit to do it, especially if it is more like a 3 or 4 year deal. This is where I could see Gavrikov over Provorov as I think Prov is getting like 7x 8mil. At that price I'd honestly maybe look into a deal to acquire someone just to keep our cost structure semi reasonable. I would consider dealing our 1st to do it. I'd just want someone for at least 3 years if we do.

On offense we should only be looking at big time upgrades. To me that means Marner and Ehlers on long term deals, maybe Tavares on a short term deal. Marner is elite and I feel like we actually have guys in the system (Kasper, MBN, Danielson, Mazur, etc.) that will be able to support him even though he is a more perimeter player. Ehlers is a guy that I think has been largely underrated throughout his career and could potentially have more in the tank offensively then what he's show in WPG. He's putting up 60 pts at less than 16 min a game, and has overall good 5 on 5 numbers. Tavares would be a decent option for a couple of seasons especially if Kane decides to move on or retire. He's still a beast at the faceoff circle and would likely be a good PP asset. He'd be a legit center option and allow Kasper/Danielson to not have to be thrown to the wolves.

I'd be very leery of the Boesers and Bennetts. Those are guys we add when we are ready to compete more than now. They are going to be overpaid and they likely do not move our chain enough by themselves to warrant the cost. Last season already looks to be an outlier for Boeser and Bennett is a guy that is a menace in the playoffs but is his body going to hold up long enough to make a major impact on a young Wings team when we are legit competing. These are the guys you add when you are going for broke for like a 5 year period and know its a cap bust or cup.

The biggest deal this off season will be moving out some contracts so we can move prospects up. Tank and Compher need to go. Berg can go if the spot is needed because I simply don't see him thriving as a Wing. Copp is fine as a 4th line center for the remainder of his contract. We need the faceoff and defensive ability for the time being. Plus his deal is shorter than Comphers.

 

[stillwater]

Does Provorov make the team that much better? He's playing that number 2 role in columbus and they're no better off than we are.

Same question about Boeser? The canucks have a better 1C, a better 1D a better 2D and they missed the playoffs with Boeser.

They're both useful pieces but the kind of talent you regret overpaying for imo.

Just really bad analogies with Boeser and Provorov here. Just silly.

You can't just simply determine whether these 2 are "worth it" based on whether or not their team made the playoffs.

Wings didn't make the playoffs with Seider or Raymond either ... and so on ...

 

[datsyukfan]

Id argue columbus is pretty similar to us. They traded for Provorov to upgrade their D and he was worth it at 6M. At 8M you've lost me.

Similar with Boeser. If you can get him for 7.5? go for it. I think he is going to cost closer to 9, maybe more. As an aside he's a net front player more than anything, that's where he scores his goals. 9M net front player? that isn't going to get us where we want to go imo.




The truth is much of this conversation is in the weeds. My argument isn't: "Yzerman shouldn't upgrade at all" Id love to see some upgrades. Id like to sign marner, Id like to let go of the dead weight, Id like to trade our 2025 1st for a top half of the lineup kind of player.

My opinion is "Yzerman shouldn't pay an absurd price for mid level upgrades." I think most of the names out there are mid level and the prices will be absurd. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see a world were the prices aren't crazy.

You guys are higher on provorov than I am. Same with Boeser.

We could use a hell of a lot more net front scoring. We basically get nothing from there

 

[Reddwit]

Problem is jets can’t get any free agents to want to live in Winnipeg so they’d probably match unless it was a ridiculous offer like 6+

For Samberg, the Jets would match 6M easily. I think you’d have to go $8M or more for him. This year was the first year the Jets gave him bona fide top 4 minutes and he absolutely ran with it. Winnipeg knows what they have in him: a guy who can play top pairing hockey. $6-7M isn’t scary money for a front office that has watched Samberg all year.

A lot of folks on here keep suggesting offer sheets for guys that their teams and fans absolutely love. Knies, McCleod, Samberg. These are guys who have been praised basically all season by fans and front office alike. They’re guys who are becoming part of their team’s core. They’re guys who drip with intangibles. They’re guys who you move salary for in order to keep. In other words, guys with the exact opposite profile of the typical successfully offersheeted player. These teams aren’t letting these guys go for lottery tickets.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I wonder if we could convince Kyle Connor to join us after next season when he hits free agency? Still firmly in his prime and we need some scoring on the left wing.

 

[DoMakc]

I don’t want them to sign Boeser or Bennett regardless of price. We don’t need centers, and Boeser doesn’t seem to me as a good fit, so it would be like another Tarasenko signing.

On D, i‘m not sure Provorov is worth the big money, his Philly last couple of years were ugly. I‘d rather sign Orlov on a shorter term

 

[SirloinUB]

But do you not think Provorov and Boeser are clear tangible upgrades to what we have?

I mean you draw the line at 1.5 mil/year to getting a guy who clearly provides an upgrade or not?

I guess we will just fundamentally agree to disagree on that.

If I overpay on 2 guys that I feel concretely make my team better, I am going to be fine with making that trade-off. Especially if I am managing a team that has been right on the cusp of the playoffs 2 years in a row.

Copp was an upgrade and made the team better and everyone hated him and that contract.

“Better” or an “upgrade” isn’t very helpful if you’re paying too much for it.

 

[Frk It]

Copp was an upgrade and made the team better and everyone hated him and that contract.

“Better” or an “upgrade” isn’t very helpful if you’re paying too much for it.

Well for 1) I have defended those signings a lot (Copp, Compher, Chiarot) and I genuinely do not mind them as much as others

And 2) I think Boeser and Provorov are better players than Copp, Compher, and Chiarot

 

[SirloinUB]

We could use a hell of a lot more net front scoring. We basically get nothing from there

I do think he is a decent fit on paper for our roster. I just don’t think it is wise to pay a guy who’s best role is net front 8 or 9 million aav

I don’t believe any of the names thrown around are going to sign anything close to reasonable.

 

[SirloinUB]

Well for 1) I have defended those signings a lot (Copp, Compher, Chiarot) and I genuinely do not mind them as much as others

And 2) I think Boeser and Provorov are better players than Copp, Compher, and Chiarot

There all also going to be making 2-3 million less, maybe even a bigger gap.

I’m not sold on provorov at all. Boeser is solid and a good fit but again, I don’t see a 9ish million dollar player.


And look maybe I’m wrong about how these contracts play out but imo the tea leaves point to ugly contracts.

 

[Frk It]

I don’t want them to sign Boeser or Bennett regardless of price. We don’t need centers, and Boeser doesn’t seem to me as a good fit, so it would be like another Tarasenko signing.

On D, i‘m not sure Provorov is worth the big money, his Philly last couple of years were ugly. I‘d rather sign Orlov on a shorter term

Tarasenko was 32 when we signed him and had 41 goals the 2 seasons prior combined.

Boeser is 28 and has 65 goals over the last 2 years combined.

It’s not the same thing.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

For Samberg, the Jets would match 6M easily. I think you’d have to go $8M or more for him. This year was the first year the Jets gave him bona fide top 4 minutes and he absolutely ran with it. Winnipeg knows what they have in him: a guy who can play top pairing hockey. $6-7M isn’t scary money for a front office that has watched Samberg all year.

A lot of folks on here keep suggesting offer sheets for guys that their teams and fans absolutely love. Knies, McCleod, Samberg. These are guys who have been praised basically all season by fans and front office alike. They’re guys who are becoming part of their team’s core. They’re guys who drip with intangibles. They’re guys who you move salary for in order to keep. In other words, guys with the exact opposite profile of the typical successfully offersheeted player. These teams aren’t letting these guys go for lottery tickets.

Wouldn’t give him 8

I’d target guys you can pherhaps get in an offersheet like quinn from sabres . I’d go for Sam colangelo on a one year deal. Just have a feeling he’s scoring 20 next season

 

[jkutswings]

We don’t need centers

Based on what?

Even if I lock both Larkin and Kasper in, there are two more center slots that are absolutely up for grabs. I have no idea how healthy Copp will be to start the season, and every other player Detroit has asked to play center has been mediocre at best (and horrendous at worst).

I'm not saying they HAVE to add a center, but if they find the right player at the right price and he happens to play center, I shake his hand and welcome him aboard. Even if Danielson hits the ground running, it won't hurt him to break in on the wing for awhile.

They still need TALENT. Positions can be ironed out over the next few years.

 

[DoMakc]

Based on what?

Even if I lock both Larkin and Kasper in, there are two more center slots that are absolutely up for grabs. I have no idea how healthy Copp will be to start the season, and every other player Detroit has asked to play center has been mediocre at best (and horrendous at worst).

I'm not saying they HAVE to add a center, but if they find the right player at the right price and he happens to play center, I shake his hand and welcome him aboard. Even if Danielson hits the ground running, it won't hurt him to break in on the wing for awhile.

They still need TALENT. Positions can be ironed out over the next few years.

I just don’t see Bennett as such an upgrade talent-wise, to me he is a way more physical Copp. I just don’t think Red Wings need a third overpaid middle six center, especially with how Kasper played and Danielson also pushing for roster slot

 

[Run the Jewels]

If the choice is Boeser or Knies, put me down for Kyle Connor. Knies and Marner are both firmly in the top 10 among wingers in high danger scoring chances this season. Boeser is right around 50th. I'm guessing Toronto will lock down Knies, and Marner is going to kick off an absurd bidding war. Kyle Connor, who may be willing to join Detroit after his current contact ends after next season, ranks 16th in high danger scoring chances. Lucas Raymond ranks 18th. Two top 20 wingers who generate high danger scoring chances sounds pretty bad ass to me.

FWIW Marner is the best of the bunch in generated high danger scoring chances: he's 5th this season.

 

[SirloinUB]

Tarasenko was 32 when we signed him and had 41 goals the 2 seasons prior combined.

Boeser is 28 and has 65 goals over the last 2 years combined.

It’s not the same thing.

Boeser has also put up more than 56 points once.

An 8.5+ million dollar 25-25 guy is not what we need.

 

[DoMakc]

Tarasenko was 32 when we signed him and had 41 goals the 2 seasons prior combined.

Boeser is 28 and has 65 goals over the last 2 years combined.

It’s not the same thing.

I‘m not comparing players, i think Boeser at this stage of his career is a better player than Tank last year. I just don‘t see him a fit with Larkin/Raymond or as Kane replacement, which means he ends up as expensive 3rd line winger in a same way as Tank.

 

[Frk It]

I‘m not comparing players, i think Boeser at this stage of his career is a better player than Tank last year. I just don‘t see him a fit with Larkin/Raymond or as Kane replacement, which means he ends up as expensive 3rd line winger in a same way as Tank.

I feel like we could find a spot for him.

Boeser has also put up more than 56 points once.

An 8.5+ million dollar 25-25 guy is not what we need.

I think he would be a huge get for this team. I don’t know why you’re so scared of paying players, our cap situation is fine.

Also he scores at a 65 pt per 82 pace for his career…. And had 40 goals last year.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I feel like we could find a spot for him.

I think he would be a huge get for this team. I don’t know why you’re so scared of paying players, our cap situation is fine.

Also he scores at a 65 pt per 82 pace for his career…. And had 40 goals last year.

My problem with someone like Boeser is the pedigree.

He is not a good skater.
He has a pretty solid injury history.
Smart player, but I don't think the body will hold up.

I think he's a good player now, but his next contract will be expensive and long term.

I don't want that for Detroit

 

[WF19]

I am all for making the playoffs, I am just against blowing resources for temporary solutions to make it happen when we are only a few seasons from it happening organically. If a deal happens that is a legit jump in talent and fits with the core then by all means let's do it. Kinda feeling like if those deals were out there they would already be done though.

I feel the same way it's just sucks having to be patient. I've said it before but this has to be the year Yzerman does something big. He has the cap space there, you have a player like Marner for instance that may be available. If you have to pay a bit more than pay a bit more the cap will be going up again and for our core guys they are pretty much signed at a bargain or on an ELC. Plus he's an elite player. Still holding out hope that we have a gem in our prospect poll that comes out of nowhere. Like Lombardi turning into our Brayden point or our Buch is gonna come over like Panarin or Kaprizov

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I feel the same way it's just sucks having to be patient. I've said it before but this has to be the year Yzerman does something big. He has the cap space there, you have a player like Marner for instance that may be available. If you have to pay a bit more than pay a bit more the cap will be going up again and for our core guys they are pretty much signed at a bargain or on an ELC. Plus he's an elite player. Still holding out hope that we have a gem in our prospect poll that comes out of nowhere. Like Lombardi turning into our Brayden point or our Buch is gonna come over like Panarin or Kaprizov

Yes, being patient is a virtue.

 

[Henkka]

We have to be more patient than Tampa fans had to be with their rebuild.

Just because we started 2 years from behind (Hedman & Stammer already in place vs. Seider & Raymond we had to draft first), and without an Art Ross player (St. Louis, who later was traded and turned for same younger value).

Still, same summer plan. Fix the defence, with quality PK players. Load the free money in here. Then you don't have to really touch on the offensive core.

PK did cost us a playoff spot, not the forward-scoring.

Maybe some more net-front precence could be added to offence. Goals For didn't match with Expected Goals For, so there's some screens and tip-ins missing from the way of shots. Add one UFA who plays this way, promote Mazur at some point, who already plays this way, Kasper plays this way, and put Rasmussen and Söderblom to play more heavily this way. Just some new things to do at offensive zone.

We need that "Tomas Holmström" -effect back to have more deserved puck "luck".

 

[Pavels Dog]

The team I'm curious about is the Islanders. Can they just realize they need a significant re-tool/rebuild?

Adam Pelech would be perfect for what we need.

 

[DoMakc]

The team I'm curious about is the Islanders. Can they just realize they need a significant re-tool/rebuild?

Adam Pelech would be perfect for what we need.

They need to re-sign Dobson and Romanov, i guess somebody might be out. I wouldn’t mind trading 1st this year for Romanov