Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[Ulysses31]

It's interesting when Raymond is now playing with Söderblom and Kasper at 2nd line.

Maybe Marner will be take the 1st line duty.

DeBrincat - Larkin - Marner
Söderblom - Kasper - Raymond

Would you bring back kane and sign marner?

Would having both be redundant?

Would b a disgusting PP tho.

 

[datsyukfan]

I am not bashing Marner he's a very good player. But he has played almost his entire career with Mathews. Look what happened with Rantanen. I thought he would be totally fine without MacKinnon based on how he plays the game. He hasn't been anywhere close to his dominant self away from MacKinnon.

Yes Detroit needs help on the wing but I firmly believe that Bennett is a much better fit and will be way cheaper. Detroit's lack of depth isn't going to be helped by spending 14 million on 1 player.

I’m certainly not saying Bennett is a bad fit or anything like that, but I disagree on the depth part of what you are saying.

IMO depth is what is going to be our biggest strength. Look at the kids that could be here either next year or the following:

Kasper, Danielson, soderblom, Mazur, MBN, Lombardi,Finne, kiskenen, Buch, etc

I’m fairly confident that all those guys are going to be very good middle 6 to bottom 6 players, but I’m also fairly certain none of them are going to be a legit star.

If we aren’t gonna have a legit star Center than I like building it Larkin-Kasper-Danielson because I see it as a low end 1C and two #2C’s that both are gonna be hard to play against and can match other teams stars.

But if you aren’t gonna have that legit high end 1C the next best option is having multiple elite wingers and that’s where I think Marner is a crazy good fit. He makes Raymond and Cat your #2 and #3 wingers. Kane can be the 4th best winger and then eventually a Buch or MBN or Mazur or Lombardi can hopefully fill that role.

 

[datsyukfan]

Would you bring back kane and sign marner?

Would having both be redundant?

Would b a disgusting PP tho.

I would 100% bring Kane back while adding Marner. No it wouldn’t be redundant both are high end players that will make everyone around them better.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

I would 100% bring Kane back while adding Marner. No it wouldn’t be redundant both are high end players that will make everyone around them better.

Where’s this team toughness? Marner kane debrincat ? Jesus ... larkin’s A wuss , love raymond but he won’t get in ppl’s faces

Bring back Bertuzzi, Marchand at least get in ppl’s faces ... evander Kane or one year id take ... it’s nice to bring in skille players but I don’t think much will change if we keep bringing back small skilled forwards who don’t get physical and hav no toughness

We also need to make room for mazur danielson , nygaard,buchelnikov soon ... we’re gonna need spots on the top 6 wing. I know I’ve said it before but I don’t think debrincat stays here longterm I’d move him for seider’s d partner if we get marner. We don’t need both

 

[Run the Jewels]

Enlighten us, do you think the core of Larkin/Raymond/Seider is good enough to win a cup? Or how do you plan to get a franchise player good enough to win a cup?

A Cup winner can feature Larkin, Kasper, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson and ASP. The problem, as I've pointed out numerous times is that Detroit's North American scouts have an abysmal hit rate and the pro scouts aren't any better. You can't fail as badly as we've failed in drafting out of Canada and win a Cup, the odds seem too long given it's the biggest talent pool on the planet.

 

[Scottgaf1]

It's never one thing that delays a rebuild. The Wings have encountered several problems, many self inflicted.

1 Holland gutted the farm system. (Bad deadline trades to go all in. Giving value to absorb Datszuk)
2. Holland group had multiple bad drafts. (Hard to find any hits late in his stint here)
3. The long-term success had for 25 years gave Detroit little opportunity to draft the league top star players. (Many teams are good now after years of tank. Edmonton, Florida, previously Chicago, etc. all hit draft gold by being top heavy)
4. Holland gave out multiple long term contracts to players that didn't work out. (This list is too long. (Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Franzen over Hossa, Nielsen, etc.)

5. Under Yzerman the Wings had horrible draft lottery luck.
6. Many of Yzermans pro FA signings have not worked out and hurt the cap. (This has been the biggest problem in Yzermans tenure. Pro scouting has been atrocious. )
7. Whether it be coaching philosophy or GM led, not moving young players up to the NHL sooner has been a bad decision.(No longer under the cap can you wait forever to get prospects some NHL action. They lose value sitting in the minors. This season has shown the positive of giving guys a shot to play with better talent)
8. Finally it starts and ends in the locker room. Ultimately it's up to guys there to produce. Too many role players are taking up roster spots and offering negative value. (There are easily ten guys on this team that don't need to be there. The on ice effort is lacking, or the results are. There are a slew of near ready guys in the system that should be given a shot now. If nothing else they are cheaper than vets who are done)
9. Lack of toughness. (Not saying we need goons, but for years this team has watched guys run at our top players with little response. Overall as a team they need to be harder to play against.)
10. Finally a lack of star power. (Teams can play a low risk game against Detroit. They don't create a ton of 5 on 5 chances. Avoiding penalties and waiting for Wings mistakes has been an effective strategy. This team desperately needs guys who create space withe puck on their sticks. It makes everyone else on the ice better.)

 

[Snuggs]

Go big fish hunting or just do nothing. Call Boston/Wild and see what they want for Kaprizov or Pastrnak. Make the deal, sign Marner, resign Kane, bring over ASP. Make a cup contending top six.

Figure out the bottom pair and 4th line with scraps/crumbs on the team you like best. Waive the remainder and build an actual team

Only have 25 million with a bunch more off the books the following year with no super stars to pay. The money/trade/cost might be too much for people to stomach, but, it is there to be made. Red Wings have the picks/players/prospects to do SOMETHING. I acknowledge that, it coud blow up, but that's why you hire/pay a good GM.

* Dimitri Buchelnikov – (C) Dylan Larkin – Lucas Raymond
Mitch Marner – * Amadeus Lombardi – David Pastrnak/Kirill Kaprizov
Alex DeBrincat – (A) Andrew Copp – Patrick Kane

Albert Johansson - Moritz Seider
Simon Edvisson - * Axel Sandin Pellikka

 

[Henkka]

Would you bring back kane and sign marner?

Would having both be redundant?

Would b a disgusting PP tho.

If there's cap space, then Kane would be luxury at 3rd line (if he is interested at all about it).

 

[Snuggs]

If there's cap space, then Kane would be luxury at 3rd line (if he is interested at all about it).

He will be; His kids and DeBrincats kids are legit best friends. Their wives are legit friends, and I'm sure he wants to achieve 500 goals and possibly 1400 points. Doesn't 'seem' like he'd be too willing to play somewhere else unless the situation was borderline perfect which idk how that'd look for him. He might have the best of both worlds(family/professional) playing here.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

He will be; His kids and DeBrincats kids are legit best friends. Their wives are legit friends, and I'm sure he wants to achieve 500 goals and possibly 1400 points. Doesn't 'seem' like he'd be too willing to play somewhere else unless the situation was borderline perfect which idk how that'd look for him. He might have the best of both worlds(family/professional) playing here.

If he’s interested in another shot a the cup he’ll look elsewhere. He’s not getting any younger

 

[Henkka]

Fix the defence and PK at same time.

Then we are fine with McLellan hockey.

Best PK UFAs seem to be Gavrikov (29y), Provorov(28y) and Ekblad(29y). All in pretty good age. 5-7 possible prime years left.

Think Gavrikov could be the best PK specialist, and familiar player for McLellan.

Ekblad would add a handness.


Gavrikov - Seider
Edvinsson - Ekblad
Chiarot - Johansson
--------------------
Gustafsson - Holl (as extras or waived)

Year after, when all Chiarot, Gustafsson and Holl are gone, we could add Sandin Pellikka to complete the perfect defence. Maybe this way:

Johansson - Seider
Edvinsson - Ekblad
Gavrikov - Sandin Pellikka
------------
Extras

 

[Snuggs]

Good defense, but all those moves have to suggest that no one in the system is good currently outside of ASP?

Toumisto/Buium/Wallinder all no futures?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He will be; His kids and DeBrincats kids are legit best friends. Their wives are legit friends, and I'm sure he wants to achieve 500 goals and possibly 1400 points. Doesn't 'seem' like he'd be too willing to play somewhere else unless the situation was borderline perfect which idk how that'd look for him. He might have the best of both worlds(family/professional) playing here.

How old are DeBrincat's kids for them to be Kane's kids "legit best friends''? They can't be over 3 years old? Lol. Where are you hearing all of this inside information?? I want Kane to stay but toddlers playing together aren't going to be the reason he stays in Detroit...

 

[SirloinUB]

Best PK UFAs seem to be Gavrikov (29y), Provorov(28y) and Ekblad(29y). All in pretty good age. 5-7 possible prime years left.

Think Gavrikov could be the best PK specialist, and familiar player for McLellan.

Ekblad would add a handness.


Gavrikov - Seider
Edvinsson - Ekblad
Chiarot - Johansson
--------------------
Gustafsson - Holl (as extras or waived)

Year after, when all Chiarot, Gustafsson and Holl are gone, we could add Sandin Pellikka to complete the perfect defence. Maybe this way:

Johansson - Seider
Edvinsson - Ekblad
Gavrikov - Sandin Pellikka
------------
Extras

Ekblad hasn’t played more than 71 games in 6 years. That guy just can’t stay healthy

 

[USAHockey97]

It's never one thing that delays a rebuild. The Wings have encountered several problems, many self inflicted.

1 Holland gutted the farm system. (Bad deadline trades to go all in. Giving value to absorb Datszuk)
2. Holland group had multiple bad drafts. (Hard to find any hits late in his stint here)
3. The long-term success had for 25 years gave Detroit little opportunity to draft the league top star players. (Many teams are good now after years of tank. Edmonton, Florida, previously Chicago, etc. all hit draft gold by being top heavy)
4. Holland gave out multiple long term contracts to players that didn't work out. (This list is too long. (Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Franzen over Hossa, Nielsen, etc.)

5. Under Yzerman the Wings had horrible draft lottery luck.
6. Many of Yzermans pro FA signings have not worked out and hurt the cap. (This has been the biggest problem in Yzermans tenure. Pro scouting has been atrocious. )
7. Whether it be coaching philosophy or GM led, not moving young players up to the NHL sooner has been a bad decision.(No longer under the cap can you wait forever to get prospects some NHL action. They lose value sitting in the minors. This season has shown the positive of giving guys a shot to play with better talent)
8. Finally it starts and ends in the locker room. Ultimately it's up to guys there to produce. Too many role players are taking up roster spots and offering negative value. (There are easily ten guys on this team that don't need to be there. The on ice effort is lacking, or the results are. There are a slew of near ready guys in the system that should be given a shot now. If nothing else they are cheaper than vets who are done)
9. Lack of toughness. (Not saying we need goons, but for years this team has watched guys run at our top players with little response. Overall as a team they need to be harder to play against.)
10. Finally a lack of star power. (Teams can play a low risk game against Detroit. They don't create a ton of 5 on 5 chances. Avoiding penalties and waiting for Wings mistakes has been an effective strategy. This team desperately needs guys who create space withe puck on their sticks. It makes everyone else on the ice better.)

The Wings missed their window to draft stars for the reasons listed and signing mediocre FAs to prevent higher picks. Their only chance now is FA or trades, neither of which I think Yzerman can do. Who says Yzerman will sign anyone to a higher contract than Larkin? What do we have to give up in a trade? A bunch of depth prospects.

 

[Snuggs]

How old are DeBrincat's kids for them to be Kane's kids "legit best friends''? They can't be over 3 years old? Lol. Where are you hearing all of this inside information?? I want Kane to stay but toddlers playing together aren't going to be the reason he stays in Detroit...

Idk if it's just the kids. It's the whole situation and the family imo is a big part.

Detroit was in Patrick Kane’s heart as he readies to don ‘beautiful’ Red Wings jersey

Like Chris Chelios in 1999, Kane is about to switch from foe to friend.

www.mlive.com

Kane said Detroit was in the back of his mind throughout this process.

“Detroit, it almost felt like it was in my heart,” he said. “When I was thinking about something else, I would always come back to Detroit.

Kane isn’t a stranger to the area. The Buffalo native moved to Detroit his freshman year of high school while playing AAA followed by two seasons with the U.S. National Team Development Program. He lived with former Red Wings player, broadcaster and assistant general manager Pat Verbeek.

“He was working the Red Wings games (as a TV analyst), so we’d go to some games,” Kane said. “It was an unbelievable atmosphere at the Joe. The Joe was actually my favorite road rink to play at.

“I just always loved the organization and always thought it was top-notch.”

Detroit’s proximity to Buffalo will allow his parents to come to games.

“My dad would drive to all the games in Chicago; that was about an eight-hour drive for him,” Kane said. “I think Detroit might be about four hours, so he’s excited about the chance to drive down and go to a number of games.”

Like father like son – DeBrincat and Kane kids develop close friendship

While friends and teammates Alex DeBrincat and Patrick Kane share chemistry on the ice, their sons, Archie and Patrick III, have their own special friendship blossoming.

www.nhlpa.com

“Then when we started playing together, it was almost instant chemistry. It was fun building our games and bringing the best out in each other.”

It is still very much the same in Detroit.

“Patrick has taught me so much since I came into the league, and he still does to this day,” said Alex. “I appreciate the friendship we have.”

Just like Archie and Patrick III enjoy theirs.

“They are just two young kids who love hockey and get fired up when they see the players,” said Alex.

“It’s cool to have them enjoy it and get excited when they see us come off the ice. It’s been a blast to see them play together and have fun.”

Hockey games between fathers and sons have become a regular occurrence, as has the occasional sleepover.

“When Patrick and I get together, and the kids are there, it turns into a two-on-two game,” said Alex.

“It’s more of them trying to get the puck and ripping it in the net. Maybe soon we can get an organized game going.”

Having that shared time is the biggest win for both players.

“It’s awesome,” said Alex. “It brings you closer and it’s cool for us to hang out as families.

“It’s nice to see that the friendship Patrick and I have has been passed down to our boys.”

Patrick is similarly grateful.

“Now, with Archie and Patrick growing up, it’s fun to watch their friendship grow and how much fun they have with one another.

“It’s been great for all of us.”

His role as a PP specialist isn't terrible with a 3rd line role. He's being forced to do a little more right now. We haven't even seen how he'd hold up yet in a physical playoff series.

 

[Henkka]

Ekblad hasn’t played more than 71 games in 6 years. That guy just can’t stay healthy

That's still pretty much better than having Holl play any games on the ice.

 

[Henkka]

Good defense, but all those moves have to suggest that no one in the system is good currently outside of ASP?

Toumisto/Buium/Wallinder all no futures?

Maybe they are something, but you could also start using them as a trade value. Use them to fix the other positions on the roster.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It's never one thing that delays a rebuild. The Wings have encountered several problems, many self inflicted.

1 Holland gutted the farm system. (Bad deadline trades to go all in. Giving value to absorb Datszuk)
2. Holland group had multiple bad drafts. (Hard to find any hits late in his stint here)
3. The long-term success had for 25 years gave Detroit little opportunity to draft the league top star players. (Many teams are good now after years of tank. Edmonton, Florida, previously Chicago, etc. all hit draft gold by being top heavy)
4. Holland gave out multiple long term contracts to players that didn't work out. (This list is too long. (Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Franzen over Hossa, Nielsen, etc.)

5. Under Yzerman the Wings had horrible draft lottery luck.
6. Many of Yzermans pro FA signings have not worked out and hurt the cap. (This has been the biggest problem in Yzermans tenure. Pro scouting has been atrocious. )
7. Whether it be coaching philosophy or GM led, not moving young players up to the NHL sooner has been a bad decision.(No longer under the cap can you wait forever to get prospects some NHL action. They lose value sitting in the minors. This season has shown the positive of giving guys a shot to play with better talent)
8. Finally it starts and ends in the locker room. Ultimately it's up to guys there to produce. Too many role players are taking up roster spots and offering negative value. (There are easily ten guys on this team that don't need to be there. The on ice effort is lacking, or the results are. There are a slew of near ready guys in the system that should be given a shot now. If nothing else they are cheaper than vets who are done)
9. Lack of toughness. (Not saying we need goons, but for years this team has watched guys run at our top players with little response. Overall as a team they need to be harder to play against.)
10. Finally a lack of star power. (Teams can play a low risk game against Detroit. They don't create a ton of 5 on 5 chances. Avoiding penalties and waiting for Wings mistakes has been an effective strategy. This team desperately needs guys who create space withe puck on their sticks. It makes everyone else on the ice better.)

Great post.

The only point I take issue with is #7. As fans we all want our shiny new toys ASAP but I think most prospects were brought in at the right time. I know people wanted Ed sooner but it’s pretty clear he wasn’t ready, especially with the shoulder surgery. He’s still very much learning to be an NHL player.

I think Kasper was brought up at the right time he was just buried by Lalonde. I guess there’s a case you could make for Soderblom or Bergrren but to me that’s more about keeping them up to be trade bait. They still haven’t established themselves as everyday NHLers.

 

[dragonballgtz]

The Wings missed their window to draft stars for the reasons listed and signing mediocre FAs to prevent higher picks. Their only chance now is FA or trades, neither of which I think Yzerman can do. Who says Yzerman will sign anyone to a higher contract than Larkin? What do we have to give up in a trade? A bunch of depth prospects.

This is actually a concern of mine. Yzerman not wanting to pay someone more than Larkin, his own internal player cap.

Would you bring back kane and sign marner?

Would having both be redundant?

Would b a disgusting PP tho.

Yeah I would re-sign Kane. They wouldn't be redundant because Marner can play defense. Honestly Marner would be the best defensive forward on the team.

 

[cvaicunas]

Great post.

The only point I take issue with is #7. As fans we all want our shiny new toys ASAP but I think most prospects were brought in at the right time. I know people wanted Ed sooner but it’s pretty clear he wasn’t ready, especially with the shoulder surgery. He’s still very much learning to be an NHL player.

I think Kasper was brought up at the right time he was just buried by Lalonde. I guess there’s a case you could make for Soderblom or Bergrren but to me that’s more about keeping them up to be trade bait. They still haven’t established themselves as everyday NHLers.

Yea many like to point to the impact the youngsters are having, and say that it demonstrates they were left in the minors for too long. However, I think them stepping into the NHL and contributing right away is a testament to the timing being correct.

 

[SirloinUB]

That's still pretty much better than having Holl play any games on the ice.

Well almost anything that takes Holl out of the lineup is much better.

I still don’t think a guy who averages 60 games played is much of a solution.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Good defense, but all those moves have to suggest that no one in the system is good currently outside of ASP?

Toumisto/Buium/Wallinder all no futures?

unlikely any of them end up anything better than bottom pair D

 

[Henkka]

This is actually a concern of mine. Yzerman not wanting to pay someone more than Larkin, his own internal player cap.


Yeah I would re-sign Kane. They wouldn't be redundant because Marner can play defense. Honestly Marner would be the best defensive forward on the team.

I think Larkin has no problem for this situation, just to get more talent on his team.

Even as relative easy mathematics, when comparing Larkin and Marner:

Last 2 seasons,
- Marner has 182 points, scoring 1.25 points per game.
- Larkin has 134 points, scoring 0.92 points per game.

Relatively, Marner is scoring 35,9% more points than Larkin, and if we compare that for the caphit:

- Larkin 8.7M x 1.359 = 11.82M relative caphit.

That's equal for based only production. But the cap is also going up, so:

Larkin 8.7M was signed against 83.5M cap. That's 10.4% of the cap.

Same for Marner, against next season 94.5M cap = 13.2% more = 11.82M x 1.132 = 13.38M.

That's just by pure math, based on production and cap growth. Contract signed on different times.

 

[Ulysses31]

I think Larkin has no problem for this situation, just to get more talent on his team.

Even as relative easy mathematics, when comparing Larkin and Marner:

Last 2 seasons,
- Marner has 182 points, scoring 1.25 points per game.
- Larkin has 134 points, scoring 0.92 points per game.

Relatively, Marner is scoring 35,9% more points than Larkin, and if we compare that for the caphit:

- Larkin 8.7M x 1.359 = 11.82M relative caphit.

That's equal for based only production. But the cap is also going up, so:

Larkin 8.7M was signed against 83.5M cap. That's 10.4% of the cap.

Same for Marner, against next season 94.5M cap = 13.2% more = 11.82M x 1.132 = 13.38M.

That's just by pure math, based on production and cap growth. Contract signed on different times.

It larkin was a leaf his aav b 9.5 at least.

I do think if they pay the marner 15x7 price tag I doubt our core players will be taking team friendly deals from that point on.