Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

I mean let's assume they go "all kids" route without trading anybody of importance:

Mazur-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Danielson
Soderblom-Compher-Lombardi
Rasmussen-Copp-Fisher

Johansson-Seider
Edvinsson-Sandin-Pelikka
Gustafsson/Chiarot-Tuomisto/Buium

Talbot/Mrazek
Cossa

How much worse is this team going to be?
 
- rebuild is being run expertly by yzerman , hes nailed every 1st pick / wins every redraft ! and has stacked up a highly rated by all pro hockey sources group of prospects . hes done fantastically on the draft floor . yes there was the weird walman occurence but he was a stolen asset anyway , and the d'cat occurence makes up for it as this guy is kickin azz but whiny redwing fans find no joy in him having an allstar season

- nobody including yzerman cares what all the cry baby fans that dont know what theyre talking about think , he took over the worst depth chart in nhl history ( 2019-20 Detroit Red Wings Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com ) ands got it back to middle of the pack with all kinds of solid prospects on the way . bunch of contracts run out next season , then significant ufa are brought in to join a significant wave of maturing prospects . 2026/27 we compete with anybody if cossa becomes legit nhl starter

- and yzerman is so intense and commited to the detroit red wings and mrs ilitch that there aint no way hes moving up to the grand daddy chair til hes using lord stanleys cup as a foot rest
 
I don't love the sound of this. Personally, I think we're about where I expected at this time. I expected that our first round drafting would be a little worse, our late round drafting would have turned out another player and our free agency/trades would be much better, ultimately resulting in a slightly more competitive, but slightly less future-oriented team than what we have now. Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with Yzerman as GM.

One thing I will say is that moving Draper into the GM chair instead of Yzerman would reduce my patience, not extend it. Yzerman's getting a lot of the benefit of the doubt from me for his work in Tampa. I can tell myself "he's been committed to this long term plan and will be make better moves when he's committed to winning in the near term. Perhaps he's waiting a little too long, and perhaps he's done a poor job identifying the right stop gaps, but the vision still seems to be there." The way Draper talks about hockey and the players has never inspired much confidence in me. Everything I don't like about Yzerman seems worse in Draper and he hasn't successfully built a cup contender before. For me, Yzerman has ~3 years to turn this team into a contender. Draper would really have to impress me with his first year for me to want to keep him around that long.

agreed.

Yzerman moving out of the GM spot at this point feels like the rebuild is taking a step in the Maple Leafs direction, which is to say there's no direction. I'd be extremely disappointed if after repeatedly asking for patience, Yzerman bails on being GM while still deep in the rebuild.

And I personally think Devellano's position is honorary at this point. I can't see him being tremendously insightful regarding this generation of players in a capped league. Yzerman is not just the GM, he is also the Executive VP.
 
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I mean let's assume they go "all kids" route without trading anybody of importance:

Mazur-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Danielson
Soderblom-Compher-Lombardi
Rasmussen-Copp-Fisher

Johansson-Seider
Edvinsson-Sandin-Pelikka
Gustafsson/Chiarot-Tuomisto/Buium

Talbot/Mrazek
Cossa

How much worse is this team going to be?
How did Fisher come back?
 
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add me to the camp that doesn't buy the 'yzerman buckling to the pressure' rumor. he endured 13 years of futility and even talks of being traded as a player, he can take getting bashed by a handful of hfboards trolls. the man has ice water flowing through his veins

as far as adding another 3 years to the rebuild? i mean, i wouldn't cry about it, but man would this place be insufferable. probably have to start freebasing zoloft just to get through a gdt

the nhl absolutely does take the longest for teams to rebuild though. does anyone else think it'd be a good solution to raise the draft age to 19 or 20? it seems like a players d+1 takes a lot of the guesswork out of the draft
 
If this turns true you guys better be ready to eat crow. Petes has been right about stuff regarding us before. He predicted we would trade maata rather than other defenseman and that came true. Point is I do trust a lot of his info. It’s no surprise what he’s saying about Larkin, I warned you guys that there’s a good chance he may want out. I’m not saying it will happen but don’t be surprised if it does. Yzerman wanting to move up to president also makes perfect sense, great job security and you don’t take all the heat of being the GM and you still get to massively impact the direction of the team. Plus he’s getting older.
 
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If this turns true you guys better be ready to eat crow. Petes has been right about stuff regarding us before. He predicted we would trade maata rather than other defenseman and that came true. Point is I do trust a lot of his info. It’s no surprise what he’s saying about Larkin, I warned you guys that there’s a good chance he may want out. I’m not saying it will happen but don’t be surprised if it does. Yzerman wanting to move up to president also makes perfect sense, great job security and you don’t take all the heat of being the GM and you still get to massively impact the direction of the team. Plus he’s getting older.

I think most of us could have predicted Maata would be traded.
 
I mean Pete has his sources but I also don't believe this given what everyone else has already said. It doesn't align at all with what the team has actually done.

If they wanted to tank and still get prospects, it makes no sense to sign Kane, trade for Debrincat, fire Lalonde, etc.

If they do this, the only way I'm not throwing in the towel as a fan is if they manage to get McKenna. Anything short of that is a gigantic failure.
 
I think most of us could have predicted Maata would be traded.
Just stop man, most people here wanted maata to stay on the team. Nobody was like we gotta trade maata! It’s always been asking holl to go. Pete’s also had a ton of insight into the Walman fiasco that’s been alluded to by players. I don’t know how much he knows but he clearly has at least a bit of info from other scouts on the team.
 
I mean Pete has his sources but I also don't believe this given what everyone else has already said. It doesn't align at all with what the team has actually done.

If they wanted to tank and still get prospects, it makes no sense to sign Kane, trade for Debrincat, fire Lalonde, etc.

If they do this, the only way I'm not throwing in the towel as a fan is if they manage to get McKenna. Anything short of that is a gigantic failure.
I don’t know if I agree. If you get the chance to add Kane you do it, just for the influence he has on the young guys and prospects alone. He’s definitely taught Raymond things. And for debrincat even if you’re trying to tank you don’t try to upgrade your team when a guy wants to play there, they can flip debrincat for assets later. I think yzerman wanted to add players to help improve how the young guys developed and then if we made the playoffs so be it, probably is we are in purgatory zone and the rookies are developing but the vets are actually the ones keeping us from the playoffs.
 
Just stop man, most people here wanted maata to stay on the team. Nobody was like we gotta trade maata! It’s always been asking holl to go. Pete’s also had a ton of insight into the Walman fiasco that’s been alluded to by players. I don’t know how much he knows but he clearly has at least a bit of info from other scouts on the team.

I have nothing against him, and I appreciate his posts, but he's been off more than people would like to admit.

And I'm not saying people wanted Maata traded- I'm saying it doesn't take a genius to figure out that he was the only realistic D on the roster who had some value.
 
I have nothing against him, and I appreciate his posts, but he's been off more than people would like to admit.

And I'm not saying people wanted Maata traded- I'm saying it doesn't take a genius to figure out that he was the only realistic D on the roster who had some value.
He also speculated that Utah would be a destination for him and that’s where he went. Again he definitely seems to hear rumors and ideas from other scouts. Even if it’s speculation it’s speculation based off what other people have been saying to him. I think people only say he doesn’t have sources if they don’t like the content of what he’s saying.
 
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Lalonde was fired for more than just losing games, he lost the room. He wasn't progressing the kids, our team looked like a damn tire fire for 35 games this year because of him. Win, lose, or shot into the sun you can't have a team playing like that when you're trying to bring kids in and create a winning team. They can lose, but they can't lose like that.

I also think people aren't giving the team credit for being in a fluid state. My impression is that @Petes2424 isn't saying the Wings will definitely just shove in a bunch of kids and tank, but that it is a very real possibility they go very young next year. Like, not sign any UFA or make any trades to bring people in, but move some people out beyond expiring deals and just moving kids into those spots on top of whatever other spots are opened up.

As for Yzerman, I don't think Yzerman is concerned personally about bad press or whatever, but he's not stupid and might fall on the sword to allow the Wings to do what they feel is right for the rebuild. Which probably isn't dealing a boatload of picks/prospects for someone.


edit: I also think folks are a bit rose colored in how likely a team full of kids is likely to perform over the course of a season. We move out some vets, let others just walk, and only fill in with kids...it has the potential to be a very rough season. Maybe not San Jose bad, but drafting top10 is very likely at that point, imo.
 
I think the rebuild has been a big success so far, that there has been a clear strategy, and that it has been progressing very well. People panicking because "iT's yEAr SiX AnD THeY'rE NOt rEAlGuD yEt" are too hung up on some arbitrary, imagined timeline.

I won't re-hash the same discussion that's been had about where this team was. It suffices to say they were at absolute rock bottom in a number of ways. What the rebuild has brought in has already shown value on the team, and already brought them close to the playoffs. Even now with all the doom and gloom around here, we're right on the bubble. And it's 90% because of players Yzerman has either drafted or traded for. And this is without ASP, Cossa, MBN, Danielson, Buchelnikov, Mazur, Augustine, etc contributing to the team yet. That whole group has strong potential ranging from good to elite, and will be incorporated over the next few seasons. Not to mention the fact that those already on the team still have room for growth. We haven't even seen Seider and Raymond's final forms yet, much less Kasper and Edvinsson's.

Yeah trades and FA have been a mixed bag (though I'd argue more positive than negative on the whole). But rebuilding teams are rarely in a good position to take full advantage of those avenues anyway. No premier FA wanted to sign with us, and the only thing we had to offer in a major trade was futures which is exactly what you don't want to give away in a rebuild. One thing you can say objectively is that Yzerman has not made any moves that hamper this team's long-term future. The free agent deals are expiring right as the youngsters need pay raises and roster spots.

So I'm going to continue being patient and enjoy watching the wave of high-end young talent take over the team. I sincerely hope these rumours about Yzerman are false. He's done a great job navigating this very challenging transition, and I have utmost confidence in him moving forward. I hope that he finds himself in a position to force the next step this offseason, both by his own willingness combined with the necessary moves actually being available. I think we forget sometimes that these guys don't have magic wands they can just wave around to make things happen. If there isn't a good move to be made, that's not necessarily Yzerman's fault. So, with the inside knowledge that he has and we don't, if he decides the best course of action next season is to do a big youth movement and get those kids some experience while adding another high draft pick, I'm ok with that.

However, I have a feeling that he will do a couple shrewd and targeted moves, thinking something like one of Provorov/Ekblad/Pionk to shore up the top 4 and maybe an Ehlers to add some scoring, particularly if Kane leaves. These additions, along with further progress of the youth already on the team, and the addition of ASP (if not Mazur and Danielson as well), will finally push this team into the playoffs.
 
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I mean let's assume they go "all kids" route without trading anybody of importance:

Mazur-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Danielson
Soderblom-Compher-Lombardi
Rasmussen-Copp-Fisher

Johansson-Seider
Edvinsson-Sandin-Pelikka
Gustafsson/Chiarot-Tuomisto/Buium

Talbot/Mrazek
Cossa

How much worse is this team going to be?
Christian Fischer hasn't been on this team for awhile.
 
Purgatory is where this team is. Literally the worst possible situation right now. Too bad to be good and too good to be bad enough for a top 5 pick... so many plugs on the roster.... prospects getting no NHL experience...
 
Purgatory is where this team is. Literally the worst possible situation right now. Too bad to be good and too good to be bad enough for a top 5 pick... so many plugs on the roster.... prospects getting no NHL experience...
Aren’t you the same person who made this thread?



Confusing, if so.
 
- rebuild is being run expertly by yzerman , hes nailed every 1st pick / wins every redraft ! and has stacked up a highly rated by all pro hockey sources group of prospects . hes done fantastically on the draft floor . yes there was the weird walman occurence but he was a stolen asset anyway , and the d'cat occurence makes up for it as this guy is kickin azz but whiny redwing fans find no joy in him having an allstar season

- nobody including yzerman cares what all the cry baby fans that dont know what theyre talking about think , he took over the worst depth chart in nhl history ( 2019-20 Detroit Red Wings Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com ) ands got it back to middle of the pack with all kinds of solid prospects on the way . bunch of contracts run out next season , then significant ufa are brought in to join a significant wave of maturing prospects . 2026/27 we compete with anybody if cossa becomes legit nhl starter

- and yzerman is so intense and commited to the detroit red wings and mrs ilitch that there aint no way hes moving up to the grand daddy chair til hes using lord stanleys cup as a foot rest

You need to nail more than your 1st round picks. Your 2nd and 3rds are really important to building solid team depth and we have failed at that over the last 6 years when you look at the total number of picks we’ve had in that range.

We’ve got Johansson on the team from that range. Mazur if/when he’s healthy. Prospects that matter from this range not in the league that look worthwhile? Buchelnikov, Augustine, Lombardi.

Second, you need to win trades. The last win was DeBrincat that forced his way to Detroit.

Third, you need to win your free agency signings. The best FAs every year sign elsewhere. We end up with the Copps, Compher, Chiarot and Holls of the world.

I really disagree that the rebuild is being run expertly. I think Yzerman’s conservative philosophy is going to draw it out and make the team miss a window as it opens. I worry that may be what we’re seeing now. Mo Seider is 24, Raymond is 23. Larkin is almost 29. Will these guys want to even stick around losing until they’re late 20’s and early 30s before Yzerman is finally comfortable enough trading picks for depth?
 
I don’t know if I agree. If you get the chance to add Kane you do it, just for the influence he has on the young guys and prospects alone. He’s definitely taught Raymond things. And for debrincat even if you’re trying to tank you don’t try to upgrade your team when a guy wants to play there, they can flip debrincat for assets later. I think yzerman wanted to add players to help improve how the young guys developed and then if we made the playoffs so be it, probably is we are in purgatory zone and the rookies are developing but the vets are actually the ones keeping us from the playoffs.
I think the fact that Kane is here works against the narrative of Petes post. Kane could have signed anywhere so I doubt he chooses a team he doesn't think is going anywhere. He could have gone home to Buffalo for that.

It's not like he signed and then found out the plan was to not progress. If that were the case he wouldn't have resigned or likely would have demanded a trade this year.
 
Purgatory is where this team is. Literally the worst possible situation right now. Too bad to be good and too good to be bad enough for a top 5 pick... so many plugs on the roster.... prospects getting no NHL experience...
Were/are people here under the impression that teams jump from the bottom of the standings straight to the top? Seems to me that some time in the middle along the way is to be expected...

Also I don't know what you mean by "prospects getting no NHL experience"? Seider and Raymond have become key players, Kasper and Edvinsson are being depended upon more and more, Johansson and Soderblom are carving out roles for themselves, and that's just the team today. We're expecting ASP, Mazur, and Danielson to be getting their shots next season, and possibly Cossa too. With more on the way the following season. I don't know what team you're watching if you don't think prospects are getting plenty of experience right now. And since they all seem to be progressing well, I don't see where criticism is warranted in that area.
 
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The idea of all this puts a pit in my stomach.

Good thing this is just the speculation of scouts, not anything coming from inside the org.
 
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Aren’t you the same person who made this thread?



Confusing, if so.

For THIS season. Just because I agree with this TDL approach and overall trajectory of the future doesn't mean this year wasn't a waste. We took a step back.
 
You need to nail more than your 1st round picks. Your 2nd and 3rds are really important to building solid team depth and we have failed at that over the last 6 years when you look at the total number of picks we’ve had in that range.

We’ve got Johansson on the team from that range. Mazur if/when he’s healthy. Prospects that matter from this range not in the league that look worthwhile? Buchelnikov, Augustine, Lombardi.

Second, you need to win trades. The last win was DeBrincat that forced his way to Detroit.

Third, you need to win your free agency signings. The best FAs every year sign elsewhere. We end up with the Copps, Compher, Chiarot and Holls of the world.

I really disagree that the rebuild is being run expertly. I think Yzerman’s conservative philosophy is going to draw it out and make the team miss a window as it opens. I worry that may be what we’re seeing now. Mo Seider is 24, Raymond is 23. Larkin is almost 29. Will these guys want to even stick around losing until they’re late 20’s and early 30s before Yzerman is finally comfortable enough trading picks for depth?
your strategy signs a doug hamilton getting detroit into playoffs only to be crushed while hamilton ages out of prime before detroits window opens . yzermans strategy instead gets him kasper whom is going to be one of the players that opens the window in his career prime and maybe be around for 20 years of a great red wing career ! yzermans gunning for a dynasty rather than creating a flawed going nowhere roster just to get into playoffs
 

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