Your Mt.Rushmore of OVERRATED and Mt.Rushmore of UNDERRATED ... all time

[VanIslander]

You first.
I after third.

Click to read more...

 

[DitchMarner]

What's the scope? Are we talking among the absolute greatest players ever? Top 50? Top 100 or so?

 

[DitchMarner]

I'll pitch one name for now:

Underrated:

Eric Lindros: He seems to be considered a fringe top 100 player at this point. I feel a lot of people have forgotten or don't realize how good he was in his prime and punish him too much for games missed in an era where a lot of the most talented players were often banged up and out of the line-up. I wasn't a huge fan of his growing up, but he was the real deal. He was dominant. There is data that indicates that he impacted goal differential at even strength positively to a degree very few ever have. People hold his lack of playoff success against him as well. I think he showed in '97 that he could be a force in the post season. He wasn't quite McDavid 2024 good, but he played at a level one would expect from the best player in the League. He really only had one more opportunity in the playoffs during his prime.

I'd say he became underrated due to how hyped he was in his early years and for years after his prime ended. I think a lot of people who didn't follow or did not pay close attention when he was in his prime looked at his career on paper expecting a lot of top two, top three type scoring finishes (ala Crosby/McDavid) and were disappointed when they saw he was a top ten scorer just three times and a top five scorer only once. However, if you look at PPG numbers, he was consistently in the top five during his prime and this was with guys like Lemieux and Jagr in the League.

I do think he left a lot to be desired and you can give him some criticism for not playing with more precaution at times ; however, I feel his prime and peak have become underrated by many.

 

[Davenport]

Let me add Phil Esposito to the Mt. Rushmore of underrated players. Too many folks who only look at numbers simply see him as someone who benefitted from playing with the two greatest Bobbys in the history of the NHL. As the caddy of the Golden Jet, he finished in the Top Ten in points twice* in three seasons. As the center of attention he Boston, he hoisted the Art Ross Trophy five times, and was runner-up to Orr twice. In New York, he led the Rangers in points for four straight seasons.
(* he was tied for 10th in 1964-65)

 

[Professor What]

I could see Esposito being a common entry on both lists to be honest. If you're enamored by numbers, you're going to find him underrated. If you're caught up on him being a defensive black hole, you're going to see him as overrated.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Mt Rushmore Underrated:

Joe Mullen
Patrik Elias
Milan Hejduk
Brian Rafalski

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Overrated?

Scott Niedermayer... I get it he won cups and all the international tournaments but he just not close to a top 10 D like Canadian media like to pump him up (sometimes top 5)

 

[Felidae]

I'll pitch one name for now:

Underrated:

Eric Lindros: He seems to be considered a fringe top 100 player at this point. I feel a lot of people have forgotten or don't realize how good he was in his prime and punish him too much for games missed in an era where a lot of the most talented players were often banged up and out of the line-up. I wasn't a huge fan of his growing up, but he was the real deal. He was dominant. There is data that indicates that he impacted goal differential at even strength positively to a degree very few ever have. People hold his lack of playoff success against him as well. I think he showed in '97 that he could be a force in the post season. He wasn't quite McDavid 2024 good, but he played at a level one would expect from the best player in the League. He really only had one more opportunity in the playoffs during his prime.

I'd say he became underrated due to how hyped he was in his early years and for years after his prime ended. I think a lot of people who didn't follow or did not pay close attention when he was in his prime looked at his career on paper expecting a lot of top two, top three type scoring finishes (ala Crosby/McDavid) and were disappointed when they saw he was a top ten scorer just three times and a top five scorer only once. However, if you look at PPG numbers, he was consistently in the top five during his prime and this was with guys like Lemieux and Jagr in the League.

I do think he left a lot to be desired and you can give him some criticism for not playing with more precaution at times ; however, I feel his prime and peak have become underrated by many.

Agreed.

A healthy Lindros would be be fighting Jagr for the hart, Art Ross and pearson trophy and probably taking a few away from him like in 1994-95

 

[tabness]

Here's an inflammatory one:

Mt. Rushmore overrated (for HF) are Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr

This board uses the parlance "big four" like it's inconceivable that anyone could be better (I'm not even talking about like McDavid or upcoming players being better), which in itself, sure I can get around.

The thing is, the legend of these players certainly seems to have grown since they played. Certainly seems to be the case for Gretzky and Lemieux, and also I'm familiar enough with the Original Six Wings to know what Howe was thought of then vs now (not as familiar/interested regarding Orr though when I looked up some stuff on Espo from back then and yeah same inflation seems to be happening for Orr).

You'd think with the way people talk about these guys here, they'd be winning the cup singlehandedly every year... just not the case lol

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Underrated
Alexander Mogilny
Peter Šťastný
Mark Howe
Brad Park

Overrated
Chris Pronger
Patrice Bergeron
Martin Brodeur
Rob Blake

 

[Overrated]

most underrated players ever:

Vladimir Petrov
Anatoli Firsov
Sergei Makarov
Jan Suchy

 

[VanIslander]

Here's an inflammatory one:

Mt. Rushmore overrated (for HF) are Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr.

Watch Gretzky his final year. And see how he still owned the ice. Coming right after his 16th year as leader in NHL assists, and no Rag scoring more goals than his old *** that year, so no milking a trigger man like Pivonka and Backstrom did for my Caps' Bondra, OV.

Overrated. Huh.

The biggest gap between reality and hype with Gretzky is paper thin.

He was everything said about him. And more.

Old man Gretz, with a piano on his back, scored a leading 10 goals, 20 points conference finals run:

 

[Midnight Judges]

Underrated:

Impacts of coaching
Impacts of team chemistry and composition
Player durability
Total team defense


Overrated:

Fighting
Advanced stats
Per-game stats
Total team offense


OP didn't say it had to be individual players.

 

[VanIslander]

Underrated:

Impacts of coaching
Impacts of team chemistry and composition
Player durability
Total team defense


Overrated:

Fighting
Advanced stats
Per-game stats
Total team offense


OP didn't say it had to be individual players.

I 90% agree.

Coaching... growing up with Bowman, Sather, Keenan... i cannot condone the media (we had no public voice pre-net except for sports talk radio) as UNDERrated. They took up too much oxygen. Maybe these days..

Team defense is a proxy for coaching (especially when coaching is listed), so sub out one of the two for Mt. Rushmore : defensive defenseman: Tsygankov, Yushkevich, Hitchman, Beauchemin, Foote, Boivin...

 

[tabness]

Underrated:

Impacts of coaching
Impacts of team chemistry and composition
Player durability
Total team defense


Overrated:

Fighting
Advanced stats
Per-game stats
Total team offense


OP didn't say it had to be individual players.

with you with everything except fighting lol

 

[Midnight Judges]

Team defense is a proxy for coaching (especially when coaching is listed)

Yeah I tend to agree.

My comment was timely as Florida allowed the fewest goals in the NHL this season, and actually the correlation of total team defense (measured by goals against) with Stanley Cups over the past 15 or so years seems to be reasonably strong.

 

[MadLuke]

And team offense has well, are we going to talk about some novel idea than scoring more goals than the other teams is a good way to win ?

 

[The Panther]

I'll pitch one name for now:

Underrated:

Eric Lindros: He seems to be considered a fringe top 100 player at this point. I feel a lot of people have forgotten or don't realize how good he was in his prime and punish him too much for games missed in an era where a lot of the most talented players were often banged up and out of the line-up. I wasn't a huge fan of his growing up, but he was the real deal. He was dominant. There is data that indicates that he impacted goal differential at even strength positively to a degree very few ever have. People hold his lack of playoff success against him as well. I think he showed in '97 that he could be a force in the post season. He wasn't quite McDavid 2024 good, but he played at a level one would expect from the best player in the League. He really only had one more opportunity in the playoffs during his prime.

I'd say he became underrated due to how hyped he was in his early years and for years after his prime ended. I think a lot of people who didn't follow or did not pay close attention when he was in his prime looked at his career on paper expecting a lot of top two, top three type scoring finishes (ala Crosby/McDavid) and were disappointed when they saw he was a top ten scorer just three times and a top five scorer only once. However, if you look at PPG numbers, he was consistently in the top five during his prime and this was with guys like Lemieux and Jagr in the League.

I do think he left a lot to be desired and you can give him some criticism for not playing with more precaution at times ; however, I feel his prime and peak have become underrated by many.

Yes, Lindros is definitely the most underrated guy on this particular forum. (Didn't the recent top-100 players things barely have him in it...?) He outscored Jagr in 1995, matched Lemieux in 1997, was the League's biggest physical force, led the playoffs in scoring, was one of the fastest players ever to 500 points, tilted the ice at ES like few forwards ever, etc., but somehow this forum thinks Norm Ullman or whoever was better.

 

[jigglysquishy]

In the last top 100, the post 1967 centres. Determined by when majority of prime was.

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Crosby
4. Messier
5. Esposito
6. Clarke
7. Trottier
8. Sakic
9. Yzerman
10. Forsberg
11. Malkin
12. Dionne
13. Fedorov
14. Thornton
15. Lindros

He's basically in a tier of his own in terms of lack of prime games played. Malkin and Forsberg jump out too.

Prime on prime he only jumps a few guys.

 

[Dingo]

Here's an inflammatory one:

Mt. Rushmore overrated (for HF) are Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr

This board uses the parlance "big four" like it's inconceivable that anyone could be better (I'm not even talking about like McDavid or upcoming players being better), which in itself, sure I can get around.

The thing is, the legend of these players certainly seems to have grown since they played. Certainly seems to be the case for Gretzky and Lemieux, and also I'm familiar enough with the Original Six Wings to know what Howe was thought of then vs now (not as familiar/interested regarding Orr though when I looked up some stuff on Espo from back then and yeah same inflation seems to be happening for Orr).

You'd think with the way people talk about these guys here, they'd be winning the cup singlehandedly every year... just not the case lol

i couldnt agree more.

A common response to this is, "X was hands down the best player in the league for 7 years, how can he be overrated???"

When, in fact, the best players are, by human nature, deified and turned into unquestionable Gods of the sport (not just hockey)

 

[The Panther]

He's basically in a tier of his own in terms of lack of prime games played. Malkin and Forsberg jump out too.

And Crosby (3rd), who missed more games than Lindros during their first 7 seasons...

Prime on prime he only jumps a few guys.

That's very debatable. I'd say Lindros jumps Thornton, Fedorov, Dionne, Sakic, Yzerman, Clarke, and maybe Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Gurglesons]

Patrice Bergeron, Pavel Datsyuk, Shea Weber, Carey Price for the overrated.

Marian Gaborik, Dale Hawerchuk, Kris Letang, Tomas Vokoun for the underrated.

 

[VanIslander]

... Shea Weber, ... for the overrated.

Kris Letang, ... for the underrated.

Am floored.

 

[carjackmalone]

Underrated

Middleton
Martin
Kerr

 

[daver]

That's very debatable. I'd say Lindros jumps Thornton, Fedorov, Dionne, Sakic, Yzerman, Clarke, and maybe Crosby and Malkin.

An uninjured Crosby? Not unless you place a large value on physicality then he also jumps McDavid too.