Your currently best national team?

[Lambo]

yes, but i still think our forward depth is better. we have better d. goalies is even.

Okay! Your defense is great but they do more mistakes than the finns.

 

[IceHockeyDude]

I wonder why (not all not all but most) Swedish posters here keep arguing that ''look, Sweden has better defense''. I mean NO WAY. Everyone agrees with that. The forward depth is there as well, but i'd say after this season on a scale 1 to 10 i'd say both countries' offensive strength is about 9. In a few years it could turn out in favor the Finns.

Ps. AB13 is hopefully a troll (or underage) which are pretty rare among the Swedish posters here.

 

[Oberyn Martell]

ok why? if you compare player for players there is no doubt that the swedish forwards are stronger overall.

let me guess, you think germany have stronger offence than sweden aswell?

I just like the finnish forwards more and think they are better than the swedes. I bet I am not the only non finnish who thinks so.

Sweden has no one who is on Draisaitls level

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I just like the finnish forwards more and think they are better than the swedes. I bet I am not the only non finnish who thinks so.

Sweden has no one who is on Draisaitls level

True though. Who is Sweden's best forward? William Nylander?

 

[Lambo]

True though. Who is Sweden's best forward? William Nylander?

Jesper Bratt!

 

[Lepardi]

we beat you in og 2006. in og 2010. in og 2014. in world cup 2016. in og 2018. and still you are better than us?

Pretty sure you haven't beaten anyone in the Olympics, and neither have I.

Did you notice when I said Sweden would be about 55-percent favorites against Finland in a best-on-best. That means I think Sweden is better but the difference isn't nearly as clear as 3 years ago.

 

[Czechboy]

Interesting debate going on here.lol I'm not sure how my Czechs get dragged into it. Our D is nowhere near the level of the Big 5. I'd also say Hronek is our best defender and the one to keep an eye on. My 2 cents:

Any of the Big 5 could win a best on best and it really wouldn't be shocking at all. If we're talking the best 23 players from those 5 countries, all the teams are amazing. Obviously a few countries get weaker in the next 23 players after that but the best of each are all crazy good teams.

I say this without bias since my Czechs aren't contenders in a best on best. The Finn D is weaker than US, Canada and Sweden. Using minutes played as an indicator of if you are first pair, second pair or bottom pair.

Finn's currently have 4 guys that play over 20 minutes a night in the NHL.
NHL.com - Stats



Russia has 3 guys over 20 a night.

NHL.com - Stats

Canada has 42.lol

NHL.com - Stats

Sweden has 13

NHL.com - Stats

US has 26

NHL.com - Stats

Not that it matters but Czechs have 1 and Swiss have 1.

 

[JabbaJabba]

I rate Seigenthaler highly, he is a lot smarter and more mobile than almost all the finnish options. Thinking about it, Mirco Müller is probably better than the likes of Nutivaara and Niku, he could also be in contention.

I don't care if you rate Siegenthaler highly, he has not proven that he is better than most of the Finns. Muller is a disappointing first round pick who has not played a full season in any team and his season best record is 11 points in 53 games. He would not make the Finnish roster.

Heiskanen is not as good as Provorov or Sergachev, although they are not great defensively, they are not defensive liabilities in the same way Heiskanen can be at times, I probably see more skill and creativity in them too. A combined defence would consist of:
Sergachev - Provorov
Orlov - Lindell
Heiskanen - Ristolainen
And as an injury one of Zadorov, Zaitsev or Kulikov would have to be considered before any finns.

Heiskanen is not a defensive liability and he is very promising player and definitely in the category with Sergachev and Provorov. Heiskanen just had 33 points in his rookie season while playing 23 minutes on average per game. Also if that would be the lineup for Finnish-Russian team then it clearly shows that Russia is not miles ahead of Finland in defensemen and thus you showed your own argument wrong.

Hronek is brilliant, possibly around the same level as Heiskanen, at the moment je scoring at a better pace with a better defensive game. Combined with the Czechs, Lindell would make it, he is a very solid player, as would Ristolainen, but otherwise Kempny and Gudas would probably take the other spots, and Hajek has a level of dynamism that is far ahead of all finnish defencemen I have not named. Rutta is not a worse player than Maata or Nutivaara, the reason he has not been playing is mostly due to the team he is on.

Hronek is not defensively better than Heiskanen. Maybe offensively and he's not at the moment scoring at a better pace than Heiskanen who is currently on pace for 25+25=50 while Hronek is on pace for 10+21=31 points, and I think it's a bad idea to think about the pace this yearly in the season. Rutta didn't play full season even in Chicago so there's that. Heinola, Jokiharju for starters are more dynamic than Hajek. Heinola is already outscoring him.

 

[OKOptimistic]

Gaudreau - Matthews - Wheeler
DeBrincat - Eichel - Kane
Connor - Hughes - Boeser
Tkachuk - Larkin - Kreider
White

Jones - Carlson
McAvoy - Trouba
Slavin - Pesce
Carlo/Fox

Gibson
Schneider
Demko

 

[AB13]

I don't care if you rate Siegenthaler highly, he has not proven that he is better than most of the Finns. Muller is a disappointing first round pick who has not played a full season in any team and his season best record is 11 points in 53 games. He would not make the Finnish roster.



Heiskanen is not a defensive liability and he is very promising player and definitely in the category with Sergachev and Provorov. Heiskanen just had 33 points in his rookie season while playing 23 minutes on average per game. Also if that would be the lineup for Finnish-Russian team then it clearly shows that Russia is not miles ahead of Finland in defensemen and thus you showed your own argument wrong.



Hronek is not defensively better than Heiskanen. Maybe offensively and he's not at the moment scoring at a better pace than Heiskanen who is currently on pace for 25+25=50 while Hronek is on pace for 10+21=31 points, and I think it's a bad idea to think about the pace this yearly in the season. Rutta didn't play full season even in Chicago so there's that. Heinola, Jokiharju for starters are more dynamic than Hajek. Heinola is already outscoring him.

You say Seigenthaler has not proven anything, but what exactly has Maata, Nutivaara and Niku proven? Not overly much in comparison.

Heiskanen has scored decently this season, but basing it of 10 games is not appropriate. If you want to do that, Zibanejad is on par with Gretzky and Aho is a fourth line plug. Hronek has outscored Heiskanen over their very recent NHL carrers by some margin. Ice Time is completely irrelevant in every way, and only scoring 33 points in that many minutes do not exactly make you an elite player.

Yes, Russia are miles ahead, since the difference between Provorov, Sergachev and the rest is huge.

Heinola and Jokiharju are not more dynamic than Hajek, not a chance in the world.

 

[Eye of Ra]

True though. Who is Sweden's best forward? William Nylander?

i would say filip forsberg

 

[illone84]

True though. Who is Sweden's best forward? William Nylander?

Sweden's forward depth is overall better than Finland's, but you can only ice one team. I would give preference to Finland's forwards. Sweden is missing a true forward superstar like Barkov, Rantanen, etc.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Sweden has no one who is on Draisaitls level

haha yep, but other than drai germany dont have any more top6 liner in nhl. kahun, reider, kuhnhackl etc are 3/4th liners. the swedish offence are 4 lines with top6 lines players.

 

[Lambo]

Sweden's forward depth is overall better than Finland's, but you can only ice one team. I would give preference to Finland's forwards. Sweden is missing a true forward superstar like Barkov, Rantanen, etc.

Yes for a tournament you need only a one team.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Sweden's forward depth is overall better than Finland's, but you can only ice one team. I would give preference to Finland's forwards. Sweden is missing a true forward superstar like Barkov, Rantanen, etc.

barkov, rantanen are not superstars. they are not on mcdavids level. the difference beetween zibanejad vs barkov and forsberg vs rantanen is very very small.

 

[illone84]

barkov, rantanen are not superstars. they are not on mcdavids level. the difference beetween zibanejad vs barkov and forsberg vs rantanen is very very small.

I'll leave that to the consensus to decide. BTW-Goalies are not even. Lundqvist is over the hill, and the rest of the Swedish goalies are mediocre. Hopefully best on best comes back in the near future so we can discuss about who's better.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I'll leave that to the consensus to decide. BTW-Goalies are not even. Lundqvist is over the hill, and the rest of the Swedish goalies are mediocre. Hopefully best on best comes back in the near future so we can discuss about who's better.

Lehner and Markstrom are not mediocre. I would not even want Lundqvist on the team, he is done. I would go with Anders Nilsson as 3rd goalie.

 

[Elvs]

Interesting debate going on here.lol I'm not sure how my Czechs get dragged into it. Our D is nowhere near the level of the Big 5. I'd also say Hronek is our best defender and the one to keep an eye on. My 2 cents:

Any of the Big 5 could win a best on best and it really wouldn't be shocking at all. If we're talking the best 23 players from those 5 countries, all the teams are amazing. Obviously a few countries get weaker in the next 23 players after that but the best of each are all crazy good teams.

I say this without bias since my Czechs aren't contenders in a best on best. The Finn D is weaker than US, Canada and Sweden. Using minutes played as an indicator of if you are first pair, second pair or bottom pair.

Finn's currently have 4 guys that play over 20 minutes a night in the NHL.
NHL.com - Stats



Russia has 3 guys over 20 a night.

NHL.com - Stats

Canada has 42.lol

NHL.com - Stats

Sweden has 13

NHL.com - Stats

US has 26

NHL.com - Stats

Not that it matters but Czechs have 1 and Swiss have 1.

Maybe you and me define "contenders" differently. While it's true that the Czech's are a clear cut below the big 5, I don't think they would be completely without a chance of winning a short best on best tournament. It'd be less shocking than it was to see Finland win the World Championship back in may.

 

[JabbaJabba]

You say Seigenthaler has not proven anything, but what exactly has Maata, Nutivaara and Niku proven? Not overly much in comparison.

Määttä has played 367 games in the NHL, has scored 108 points in those and was a regular player twice in a Stanley Cup winning team. That's easily more than what Siegenthaler has accomplished. Nutivaara has played 214 games with 53 points. Again that's more than Siegenthaler. I didn't bring up Niku and I wouldn't say he has proven anything over Siegenthaler.

Heiskanen has scored decently this season, but basing it of 10 games is not appropriate. If you want to do that, Zibanejad is on par with Gretzky and Aho is a fourth line plug. Hronek has outscored Heiskanen over their very recent NHL carrers by some margin. Ice Time is completely irrelevant in every way, and only scoring 33 points in that many minutes do not exactly make you an elite player.

Minutes matter because it tells how much a player is relied on. It's pretty clueless thing to say that it has no meaning. Best players play the most. Heiskanen can already handle more than Hronek. Also, scoring 33 points as a rookie defenceman is very good and the fact that he had the most goals out of rookie defencemen and was second in points for rookie defencemen is very good.

Also, you need to be more specific on which pace you mean when you talk. Heiskanen has more points than Hronek during his career. Hronek has 0.48 points per game while Heiskanen has 0.42, which isn't much of a margin edge for Hronek that you claimed.

Yes, Russia are miles ahead, since the difference between Provorov, Sergachev and the rest is huge.

After Provorov and Sergachev there's not much of a difference. Heiskanen is in the same category with those two and Ristolainen is clearly better offensive defender than Orlov based on numbers. Lindell is a top pairing player, which can't be said about the rest of the Russians. And even you made a combination lineup with 50-50 Finns and Russians, which shows that even you agree that they are quite equal.

Heinola and Jokiharju are not more dynamic than Hajek, not a chance in the world.

What do you mean by dynamic then? Heinola has already outscored Hajek and has great hockey IQ while Jokiharju continues to develop well in Buffalo. Last season he got a lot of responsibility while playing in Chicago and he is clearly ahead of Hajek at the moment. There's really no case to be made for Hajek in this matter.

 

[AB13]

Määttä has played 367 games in the NHL, has scored 108 points in those and was a regular player twice in a Stanley Cup winning team. That's easily more than what Siegenthaler has accomplished. Nutivaara has played 214 games with 53 points. Again that's more than Siegenthaler. I didn't bring up Niku and I wouldn't say he has proven anything over Siegenthaler.



Minutes matter because it tells how much a player is relied on. It's pretty clueless thing to say that it has no meaning. Best players play the most. Heiskanen can already handle more than Hronek. Also, scoring 33 points as a rookie defenceman is very good and the fact that he had the most goals out of rookie defencemen and was second in points for rookie defencemen is very good.

Also, you need to be more specific on which pace you mean when you talk. Heiskanen has more points than Hronek during his career. Hronek has 0.48 points per game while Heiskanen has 0.42, which isn't much of a margin edge for Hronek that you claimed.



After Provorov and Sergachev there's not much of a difference. Heiskanen is in the same category with those two and Ristolainen is clearly better offensive defender than Orlov based on numbers. Lindell is a top pairing player, which can't be said about the rest of the Russians. And even you made a combination lineup with 50-50 Finns and Russians, which shows that even you agree that they are quite equal.



What do you mean by dynamic then? Heinola has already outscored Hajek and has great hockey IQ while Jokiharju continues to develop well in Buffalo. Last season he got a lot of responsibility while playing in Chicago and he is clearly ahead of Hajek at the moment. There's really no case to be made for Hajek in this matter.

First of all, amount of NHL games played is not how you judge a player.

How is being relied on relevant? Plenty of players can handle more minutes than they get, and vice versa. What a coach thinks of a player is not always telling, for example, Jake McCabe averages more minutes than Rasmus Dahlin, but it is clear who the better player is there. When you compare players from different teams, that becomes even less relevant.

I do not think Heinola or Jokiharju can match the motor or two way ability of Hajek at the moment.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Heiskanen, Ristolainen, Heinola, Jokiharju, Lindell might be good enough D core going forward.

 

[Czechboy]

Maybe you and me define "contenders" differently. While it's true that the Czech's are a clear cut below the big 5, I don't think they would be completely without a chance of winning a short best on best tournament. It'd be less shocking than it was to see Finland win the World Championship back in may.

I'm not saying theyd get killed or anything... They might even upset a big team. Games would mostly be close but currently our absolute best team could win a world championship but not a best on best imo. To be honest, I'll be happy if we keep getting invites!

 

[Snowsii]

You say Seigenthaler has not proven anything, but what exactly has Maata, Nutivaara and Niku proven? Not overly much in comparison.

Heiskanen has scored decently this season, but basing it of 10 games is not appropriate. If you want to do that, Zibanejad is on par with Gretzky and Aho is a fourth line plug. Hronek has outscored Heiskanen over their very recent NHL carrers by some margin. Ice Time is completely irrelevant in every way, and only scoring 33 points in that many minutes do not exactly make you an elite player.

Yes, Russia are miles ahead, since the difference between Provorov, Sergachev and the rest is huge.

Heinola and Jokiharju are not more dynamic than Hajek, not a chance in the world.

You're alone with your believs.. There were poll between Provorov, Sergachev and Heiskanen and First two didnt get a single vote

 

[AB13]

Heiskanen, Ristolainen, Heinola, Jokiharju, Lindell might be good enough D core going forward.

Not to compete with the big boys, have you seen the future D core USA, Canada and Sweden can ice?

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Not to compete with the big boys, have you seen the future D core USA, Canada and Sweden can ice?

Yes. Defense doesn't have to be as good as Sweden. Just good enough to have a shot at gold.