Value of: Yotes & Sharks: What would it cost for AZ to Move Up from #6 to #4?

[MayDayMayDay]

A due diligence ask. What's the price?

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[Grinner]

4+ 26
6+12
Seemed pretty close on one of those trade charts floating around

 

[Forge]

The problem for me would be that dropping out of #4 would drop me a tier in prospects. For that reason, I have to make it hurt

 

[Grinner]

It's certainly not a trade to make until the Sharks are on the board. If even then

 

[matt trick]

My opinion:

I'd love to get another top 15 pick in this draft. 6+12 for 4 would be intriguing, however, I think we need one of the top 5 (and I have a strong preference on Michkov over Smith).

Could Benson/Reinbacher and Leonard/Sale make us better than Michkov? Maybe, we have lots of holes, but I believe there is no substitute for elite talent, so we should stand pat.

Also, we desperately need an elite center. Centers are typically found in top 5 picks, usually top 3. After Thornton, I think there's a lot of Sharks fans who want centers with size, if Carlsson or Fantilli dropped, don't think you'd get any deal.

 

[Grinner]

If the tw

My opinion:

I'd love to get another top 15 pick in this draft. 6+12 for 4 would be intriguing, however, I think we need one of the top 5 (and I have a strong preference on Michkov over Smith).

Could Benson/Reinbacher and Leonard/Sale make us better than Michkov? Maybe, we have lots of holes, but I believe there is no substitute for elite talent, so we should stand pat.

Yes it is a tough drop to make,but if the two big centers go 2 & 3, and Reinbacher and Leonard is the return? Then I'd pull the trigger

 

[MayDayMayDay]

4+ 26
6+12
Seemed pretty close on one of those trade charts floating around

I'd sweeten this some and add SJ's choice of a 2nd rounder in '24 or '25. We have 8 2nd rounders in those next two drafts.

 

[Grinner]

I'd sweeten this some and add SJ's choice of a 2nd rounder in '24 or '25. We have 8 2nd rounders in those next two drafts.

Just out of curiosity, who is it you'd target at 4?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Just out of curiosity, who is it you'd target at 4?

Must be Michkov.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Just out of curiosity, who is it you'd target at 4?

Personally, I have Michkov as the #2 prospect in this draft. His timeline for arrival vibes well with Arizona's timeline. For those reasons, that's who I'd be after (provided it goes Beds, Fants, Leo 1 2 3, and he's there).

That said, if a deal couldn't be done, I'd be elated to get Leonard at 6. Big, mean center who scores and plays playoff style hockey every night, sign me up. But we got Cooley and Geekie last year. I want that game breaker if we can get him.

 

[Grinner]

Personally, I have Michkov as the #2 prospect in this draft. His timeline for arrival vibes well with Arizona's timeline. For those reasons, that's who I'd be after (provided it goes Beds, Fants, Leo 1 2 3, and he's there).

That said, if a deal couldn't be done, I'd be elated to get Leonard at 6. Big, mean center who scores and plays playoff style hockey every night, sign me up. But we got Cooley and Geekie last year. I want that game breaker if we can get him.

Yes getting a game breaker is what we all want most.

Since we're throwing it out there any chance of 6 and Guenther?

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Yes getting a game breaker is what we all want most.

Since we're throwing it out there any chance of 6 and Guenther?

I don't think so, sorry. It seems like we hit on Guenther, and while 12 might wind up being the better player in the long run, I'd prefer to stick with the bird in the hand over the one in the bush there. Respect you asking though, Gunner looks great so far.

 

[Grinner]

I don't think so, sorry. It seems like we hit on Guenther, and while 12 might wind up being the better player in the long run, I'd prefer to stick with the bird in the hand over the one in the bush there. Respect you asking though, Gunner looks great so far.

No problem. He was who I was hoping for when the Sharks took Eklund

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don’t think the Sharks can afford to lose out on whoever is left of the top four prospects in this draft so if Arizona is after that player, I can’t see a deal being there.

 

[Whalers Fan]

If the tw
Yes it is a tough drop to make,but if the two big centers go 2 & 3, and Reinbacher and Leonard is the return? Then I'd pull the trigger

Both of those players are almost certainly gone by the 12th pick, so with 6 & 12 you would only get one of them.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

That said, if a deal couldn't be done, I'd be elated to get Leonard at 6. Big, mean center who scores and plays playoff style hockey every night, sign me up. But we got Cooley and Geekie last year. I want that game breaker if we can get him.

These are some questionable traits about Leonard. He plays a heavy forecheck, but is not mean nor a center.

 

[Grinner]

Both of those players are almost certainly gone by the 12th pick, so with 6 & 12 you would only get one of them.

I wouldn't be surprised. But then I'm not all that eager to trade down

 

[Brodeur]

It'd be contingent on San Jose's primary target being somebody they think they could still land at #6. With this draft class, that seems unlikely since there seems to be a tier drop after #5. I think there's a bit of a misconception that a team would trade down if enough draft capital was offered. Handful of examples:

- 2006: Boston offered #5 and #37 to Washington for #4. When asked who'd they be taking, Boston said Nicklas Backstrom which was a no for Washington.

- 2007: St. Louis wanted Jakub Voracek and offered #9 and #24 to Edmonton for #6. There was a perceived tier drop after #7, so Edmonton declined.

- 2016: Columbus made an undisclosed offer to flip #3 and #2 because they wanted Patrik Laine. Winnipeg wasn't interested.

- 2017: Vegas wanted to make a splash to get Nolan Patrick. It would have been a two part trade where Vegas tried to move up from #6 to #3, but Dallas said no because of the perceived drop after Heiskanen/Makar. Darren Dreger also said the Rangers pitched #7 and #21 to Dallas for #3 but were declined.

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Examples of when a trade did come to fruition:

- 1993: For better or worse, San Jose wanted Viktor Kozlov. So they traded #2 for #6, #45, #58, and Sergei Makarov (plus a conditional pick if Kozlov was off the board). They didn't do the trade because they were floored by what Hartford was offering. They did it because they would have taken Kozlov at #2, so now they could get Kozlov plus some extra assets.

- 1998: San Jose dealt #2 and #85 to Nashville for #3 and #29. Nashville wanted a forward to sell as the new face of the franchise. San Jose wanted a cornerstone D to pair with Patrick Marleau who had been picked the previous year.

- 1999: The overly complicated Brian Burke trades happened because Tampa/NYR and Atlanta happened to have different guys on top of their boards.

- 2002: Rick Dudley and Doug MacLean made an outside the box trade. Florida was going to take Jay Bouwmeester #1 but was able to move down to #3 and still get him.

- 2003: Panthers had Nathan Horton ranked #1 but figured they could move to #2 or #3 to get him. Dudley tried to drum up a trade market but ended up taking a relatively forgettable package to move to #3.

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TL;DR - Unless the Sharks had somebody like Dvorsky/Benson/etc in the same class as Carlsson/Smith/Michkov, they'd probably decline. Or if there was a scenario where San Jose wanted say Michkov and they knew Arizona/Montreal wouldn't take him then maybe there'd be a deal to be had. It's just difficult to say that #4 is definitely equal to #6, #38, #70, next year's 2nd, etc.

 

[Dead Coyote]

As much as I like Michkov I wouldn't make this trade. #6 and #12 value is higher than #4 and #26 (and realistically that trade probably wouldn't even be enough). Decent chance Michkov falls past 4 anyways, so I'd only consider it if we knew SJS wanted Michkov...which would also make SJS not do it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The only way I’d consider moving down from 4 to 6 is if I wanted Michkov and was sure he’d be there at 6th. In that case, I’d do the 4+25 for 6+12. Otherwise I think moving out of the Fantilli/Carlsson/Michkov/Smith tier wouldn’t be worth it.

 

[Patty Ice]

4+ 26
6+12
Seemed pretty close on one of those trade charts floating around

In any other draft this would be fair enough but given the talent of the top 5, the 4th overall alone is worth both the 6th and 12th.

 

[NewtJorden]

I want the Sharks to keep the 4th pick.

 

[Grinner]

In any other draft this would be fair enough but given the talent of the top 5, the 4th overall alone is worth both the 6th and 12th.

Okay, the OP did offer to sweeten the pot so I'm sure it's light.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

would you discuss Cooley for #4?

 

[TheBeard]

4 for 6 and 12 is it