Post-Game Talk: YOLO and HNY HFOIL

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Its hardly hindsight for me to be saying Logan Thompson or Adin Hill were good goalies. I was saying that for years. You should look at goalie fundamentals, skillsets, flexibility, skills, not just the stats.

Slacker attitude? We've been through this many times. Skinner is the first to admit he never took training or conditioning seriously until recently. At same age I took physical fitness more seriously and I'm not a pro athlete nor was it my intent. Theres no inference involved in the slacker label. Skinner said this himself.

I dunno. I'd like to see the context. It's pretty common for players to comment about the training gap they've experienced moving from junior age competition where they were likely dominant players with poor habits to highly competitive life as an adult professional player. No one is able to coast by on talent alone and training, conditioning, nutrition and every variable becomes important to battle to elevate into one of the precious few that ever make it to apex NHL level competition.

The Oilers hired one of the most touted mental strength coaches in the world off the basis of Jackson reading his book and feeling that even a team driven by McDavid and Draisaitl could gain more edge with this huge, unseen aspect of winning.

Skinner onboarded as pro after a largely successful junior career that included winning a WHL starting job very young and ending by being a critical piece to drive a WHL championship team. But as a young pro his eyes became open that raw ability would never be enough as he bounced between ECHL and AHL. He was projecting to be an NHL backup through this team's mature phase winning window until Campbell cratered like 30 games into his big money free agency bonanza.

The Oilers as a team is in its prime unfortunately with a developing stage goaltender who can slip with wild variance in his play. Skinner's working on all elements of his game, mentally; at the bio-mechanical level with Francillia's help recently added; training and conditioning (with eyes open from his early Bako days); and ongoing with technical approach. This is the hardest position in hockey under the most mental pressure to perform and for Oiler management, coaching and players they are fortunate Skinner didn't melt down like a candle. The unfortunate reality is they have a young goaltender with physical limitations and processing abilities and game that's a work in progress and prone to slip into some pretty wild fluctuations in play. Huge risk for a team ready to win it all and was 1 goal away in a Cup Championship Final Game 7.

I'd like to see a veteran quality 1A tandem upgrade that pushes Skinner into a 1B development role as originally planned.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I’ve seen plenty of articles, yes. Not any ones that should create a never dying narrative that he doesn’t want to be better at his craft to this day, and not one that disputes the fact that he’s hired extra goalie coaches on route to getting better at his craft.

here I'll help you out with my own mindset. Edmonton is a working class city. Most people develop an interest in career and prepare for that for years.

Particular to sports anybody that endeavors to have that as a career, and particularly in hockey, they train and play and do everything possible to be the best at that and often starting even preschool. Those that want to go pro, I've never heard athletes in present day say they never trained, never took it seriously, and couldn't even go up one flight of stairs without that being challenging.

The trouble with this is the years of his life (vast majority) where Skinner didn't train and prep in every bit of flexibility, strength, conditioning that are assets to pro goalies you can't just make that all up in the now. Supreme flexibility is had through mostly lifetime endeavor. Conditioning takes years.

Watch Skinner's poor butterfly form. (he's poor at stretching pads across relative to other NHL goalies and for his size, and thats just one aspect where not working on that for years has left him this terrible flexibility. Its just one example.

Thats the thing though. For his craft at this age he can only work on certain things. Some things are always going to be a problem, and deficiency because he didn't work on those lifelong as you have to to have supreme flexibility which is a major goalie requisite.

As far as training and prep right now I've been specific. Skinner has the laziest warmups and pregame of any goalie I've seen, ever, with the NHL Oilers. Its like he pretends at pregame edgework, flexes, skating etc. Very clear he half asses it and very clear as well when he tries to do lateral edgework with some force he often loses balance. This more than indicative he doesn't have it down. he doesn't do it enough to be consistent in movement. He has even fundamental skating difficulty. This features even in games where he's slow lumbering out or back in cage.

Another thing to watch for is how quickly proficient goalies can get up out of the Butterfly, and how many times without looking fatigued or cheating up or down. Skinner will often just stay down, or up, even as the situation in front of him requires one or the other. For instance Vasi or Quick may be up and down 5X times as much as situation merits because they have the athleticism to do that. They also feature micro up/down or one leg up or down that Skinner doesn't even have as a skillset. Skinner stays up or down with more latency because he can't spring up efficiently from butterfly. Again this is something that takes years of training.

Theres no excuse for stuff like that. Especially with the best training availability that NHL goalies have.

You can feel free to disagree with every point I've raised here but its the closest I'm prepared to go right now in speaking of the limitations

 

[iCanada]

Fuhr was liked because of his skills and proficiency on ice and his cool at not being rattled. He was one of the quickest reflex goalies in the game. Supremely athletic, flexible, strong, lightning quick. he was smaller, but made up for it in his cat like reflex. He was a feared goalie because of the respected goalie skill of robbing and taking goals right off the board with his own excellence. Fuhr and Moog, with the way the Oilers played in front of them were often left to mercy of having to make huge stops on breakaways, 2 on 1's and lots of times in games. The game was much more open then as you know and Skinner wouldn't survive in that environment. Skinner gets solved a lot on HDSC and especially anything moving across. Conversely Fuhr was gold getting across.

Games were much different back then. In 80's goalies that could make highway robbery reaction stops were treasured. They were taking labeled shots even on pass across and snuffing out goals. Todays game is much more structured, goalies much more into block form, and teams much more into limiting HDSC or difficult situtions and the Oilers are around best in league at limiting difficulty of chances. Under KK our active sticks, blocking shots, covering ice is off the charts. I've never seen an Oilers team play such positionally sound hockey as we have under KK and Coffey.

Fuhr used to make several point blank sure goal type saves every game. Skinner doesn't make those saves, you reliably know he's going to let in atleast one you hold your nose at on any given night.

The other thing is - you know - if you got into a goaltending duel in game 7 and you're starting Fuhr - you're most probably winning that game and not losing on the back of a muffin with no traffic from 70 ft out.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

There isn't a goaltender available that is better or more consistent than Skinner so we're going to ride Skinner until we either win the cup or get eliminated.

The haters are just screaming into the void

The trust some have in Dustin Schwartz is baffling.

You want better goaltending? Get rid of him first.

 

[iCanada]

I dunno. I'd like to see the context. It's pretty common for players to comment about the training gap they've experienced moving from junior age competition where they were likely dominant players with poor habits to highly competitive life as an adult professional player. No one is able to coast by on talent alone and training, conditioning, nutrition and every variable becomes important to battle to elevate into one of the precious few that ever make it to apex NHL level competition.

The Oilers hired one of the most touted mental strength coaches in the world off the basis of Jackson reading his book and feeling that even a team driven by McDavid and Draisaitl could gain more edge with this huge, unseen aspect of winning.

Skinner onboarded as pro after a largely successful junior career that included winning a WHL starting job very young and ending by being a critical piece to drive a WHL championship team. But as a young pro his eyes became open that raw ability would never be enough as he bounced between ECHL and AHL. He was projecting to be an NHL backup through this team's mature phase winning window until Campbell cratered like 30 games into his big money free agency bonanza.

The Oilers as a team is in its prime unfortunately with a developing stage goaltender who can slip with wild variance in his play. Skinner's working on all elements of his game, mentally; at the bio-mechanical level with Francillia's help recently added; training and conditioning (with eyes open from his early Bako days); and ongoing with technical approach. This is the hardest position in hockey under the most mental pressure to perform and for Oiler management, coaching and players they are fortunate Skinner didn't melt down like a candle. The unfortunate reality is they have a young goaltender with physical limitations and processing abilities and game that's a work in progress and prone to slip into some pretty wild fluctuations in play. Huge risk for a team ready to win it all and was 1 goal away in a Cup Championship Final Game 7.

I'd like to see a veteran quality 1A tandem upgrade that pushes Skinner into a 1B development role as originally planned.

Even if it's not a veteran guy - if we had went out and got lankinen in the off-season for example.

Instead it was the Canucks who already had Demko & Silovs making that move though... Who i think most would take either over Skinner.

 

[TheNumber4]

here I'll help you out with my own mindset. Edmonton is a working class city. Most people develop an interest in career and prepare for that for years.

Particular to sports anybody that endeavors to have that as a career, and particularly in hockey, they train and play and do everything possible to be the best at that and often starting even preschool. Those that want to go pro, I've never heard athletes in present day say they never trained, never took it seriously, and couldn't even go up one flight of stairs without that being challenging.

The trouble with this is the years of his life (vast majority) where Skinner didn't train and prep in every bit of flexibility, strength, conditioning that are assets to pro goalies you can't just make that all up in the now. Supreme flexibility is had through mostly lifetime endeavor. Conditioning takes years.

Watch Skinner's poor butterfly form. (he's poor at stretching pads across relative to other NHL goalies and for his size, and thats just one aspect where not working on that for years has left him this terrible flexibility. Its just one example.

Thats the thing though. For his craft at this age he can only work on certain things. Some things are always going to be a problem, and deficiency because he didn't work on those lifelong as you have to to have supreme flexibility which is a major goalie requisite.

As far as training and prep right now I've been specific. Skinner has the laziest warmups and pregame of any goalie I've seen, ever, with the NHL Oilers. Its like he pretends at pregame edgework, flexes, skating etc. Very clear he half asses it and very clear as well when he tries to do lateral edgework with some force he often loses balance. This more than indicative he doesn't have it down. he doesn't do it enough to be consistent in movement. He has even fundamental skating difficulty. This features even in games where he's slow lumbering out or back in cage.

Another thing to watch for is how quickly proficient goalies can get up out of the Butterfly, and how many times without looking fatigued or cheating up or down. Skinner will often just stay down, or up, even as the situation in front of him requires one or the other. For instance Vasi or Quick may be up and down 5X times as much as situation merits because they have the athleticism to do that. They also feature micro up/down or one leg up or down that Skinner doesn't even have as a skillset. Skinner stays up or down with more latency because he can't spring up efficiently from butterfly. Again this is something that takes years of training.

Theres no excuse for stuff like that. Especially with the best training availability that NHL goalies have.

You can feel free to disagree with every point I've raised here but its the closest I'm prepared to go right now in speaking of the limitations

The article I keep requesting probably would have been less effortful than this post but I’ll take it. Sounds like your laziness and lack of effort criticisms just boil down to the standard scouting report on Stu’s ability. And on Stu’s ability it’s not like we disagree.

I stated on Skinner very early on that he doesn’t have great flexibility or athleticism, calling out his inability to do the splits. But that lack of natural ability, is seperate issue from whether he lacks the effort level to attempt get better. And “better” can also be mental and/or positional, not just flexibility. Which we know for a fact he’s working on to get better at, with more goalie coaches than we’ve seen from a lot of our past goalies.

His pre game prep in comparison to others can be very subjective and I’m pretty certain every goalie has their own style of it. So I can’t buy much into that reasoning to support the Stu is just lazy narrative.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

The trust some have in Dustin Schwartz is baffling.

You want better goaltending? Get rid of him first.

I think Skinner could benefit in adding some old school techniques to his game.

Schwartz seems to be fully entrenched in the modern way of teaching goaltending and it hasn't been all that successful.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Even if it's not a veteran guy - if we had went out and got lankinen in the off-season for example.

Instead it was the Canucks who already had Demko & Silovs making that move though... Who i think most would take either over Skinner.

That's on management. Not the player.

Your trying to compare Fuhr to Skinner is one of the wildest things I've read lately. Fuhr was an otherworldly athletic, high pedigree elite talent in an era where goaltenders were more likely to be the worst athlete on their teams. He's one of the games best ever. Skinner was a winning window back-up plan who's trying to grow and develop and mature his game while running after a team that's been priming for a decade+ to reach this elite level. He's trying to onboard a moving bullet train.

For the record, I have family that attended Victoria Cougars camp with Fuhr and others than played senior baseball with Grant Fuhr the catcher. Everyone raved about his inherent athleticism and chill demeanour. Skinner plays in a modern era in which everyone can shoot and score with technically advanced sticks with marginal, innate athletic ability, and a team primed to chase a Cup. They share geography in where they were raised and that's it. But as incredible as Fuhr was he too could be prone to bad goals. But never gave up the final one and had the best team in NHL history to find the winning goal.

It's in Bowman's hands now (though with huge Jackson input) if this organization moves to reset its goaltending. I'll hold that strategic level of decision making ultimately accountable.

Grant Fuhr: 100 Greatest NHL Players | NHL.com

Goalie helped Oilers win five Stanley Cup championships, was first black player inducted into Hockey Hall of Fame

www.nhl.com

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think Skinner could benefit in adding some old school techniques to his game.

Schwartz seems to be fully entrenched in the modern way of teaching goaltending and it hasn't been all that successful.

Goaltending has been a disaster for this org for a very long time with only a couple years of good goaltending and even then it was just Roloson in the '06 playoffs and that one year of Talbot. Whoever is scouting goalies both pro and amateur absolutely sucks at it.

I really want to see Skinner with an actual goalie coach with real NHL experience instead of a guy who was plucked from their backyard with no real effort.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I dunno. I'd like to see the context. It's pretty common for players to comment about the training gap they've experienced moving from junior age competition where they were likely dominant players with poor habits to highly competitive life as an adult professional player. No one is able to coast by on talent alone and training, conditioning, nutrition and every variable becomes important to battle to elevate into one of the precious few that ever make it to apex NHL level competition.

The Oilers hired one of the most touted mental strength coaches in the world off the basis of Jackson reading his book and feeling that even a team driven by McDavid and Draisaitl could gain more edge with this huge, unseen aspect of winning.

Skinner onboarded as pro after a largely successful junior career that included winning a WHL starting job very young and ending by being a critical piece to drive a WHL championship team. But as a young pro his eyes became open that raw ability would never be enough as he bounced between ECHL and AHL. He was projecting to be an NHL backup through this team's mature phase winning window until Campbell cratered like 30 games into his big money free agency bonanza.

The Oilers as a team is in its prime unfortunately with a developing stage goaltender who can slip with wild variance in his play. Skinner's working on all elements of his game, mentally; at the bio-mechanical level with Francillia's help recently added; training and conditioning (with eyes open from his early Bako days); and ongoing with technical approach. This is the hardest position in hockey under the most mental pressure to perform and for Oiler management, coaching and players they are fortunate Skinner didn't melt down like a candle. The unfortunate reality is they have a young goaltender with physical limitations and processing abilities and game that's a work in progress and prone to slip into some pretty wild fluctuations in play. Huge risk for a team ready to win it all and was 1 goal away in a Cup Championship Final Game 7.

I'd like to see a veteran quality 1A tandem upgrade that pushes Skinner into a 1B development role as originally planned.

I think it’s a given that in an ideal world they can add a veteran tandem goalie but looking around the league, who’s a guy they could really trust?

Talbot probably the easiest answer but would Detroit entertain dealing him or did they sign him for two years because they envision him as a veteran mentor as they bring Cossa along.

Quick maybe if Rangers continue to unravel? But would he waive to come to Edmonton?

Vejmelka is another name I like but not sure Utah trades him whether they’re in the hunt or not and he would almost assuredly be a rental as a pending UFA he probably inks a 5M or 6M a year deal in the summer, which the Oilers likely wouldn’t match unless they were moving on from Skinner.

I don’t know how many realistically available options are out there, who aren’t subject to similar inconsistencies.

I’d love to see them make a call to Nashville to see if Saros might be a possibility, obviously unlikely but Trotz has made some weird decisions. Maybe the underwhelming season and prospect of a high draft pick has changed things for them. Ownership has doled out a ton of cash and nmc’s recently so maybe they’d take the off ramp on Saros before his 70M deal and nmc kicks in. Maybe they go for the high pick this year and address goalie in the summer especially since they have one of the leagues goalie whisperers in Mitch Korn.

In my eyes Saros is one of the true difference makers in the league at the goaltending position, he’d immediately erase any doubt at the position and put them in that near impossible to beat category even with the rest of the roster as is.

Time to go back to the Nashville trade well one more time.

 

[iCanada]

That's on management. Not the player.

Your trying to compare Fuhr to Skinner is one of the wildest things I've read lately. Fuhr was an otherworldly athletic, high pedigree elite talent in an era where goaltenders were more likely to be the worst athlete on their teams. He's one of the games best ever. Skinner was a winning window back-up plan who's trying to grow and develop and mature his game while running after a team that's been priming for a decade+ to reach this elite level. He's trying to onboard a moving bullet train.

For the record, I have family that attended Victoria Cougars camp with Fuhr and others than played senior baseball with Grant Fuhr the catcher. Everyone raved about his inherent athleticism and chill demeanour. Skinner plays in a modern era in which everyone can shoot and score with technically advanced sticks with marginal, innate athletic ability, and a team primed to chase a Cup. They share geography in where they were raised and that's it. But as incredible as Fuhr was he too could be prone to bad goals. But never gave up the final one and had the best team in NHL history to find the winning goal.

It's in Bowman's hands now (though with huge Jackson input) if this organization moves to reset its goaltending. I'll hold that strategic level of decision making ultimately accountable.

Grant Fuhr: 100 Greatest NHL Players | NHL.com

Goalie helped Oilers win five Stanley Cup championships, was first black player inducted into Hockey Hall of Fame

www.nhl.com

I agree 100% to be clear - Skinner isn't Fuhr and the comparison stops at him being a local boy.

But he's talked about like he's Fuhr, and that's largely why I bring it up.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Back to the game itself. I loved Knoblauch's chemistry experiment to refresh top line with Brown and Hyman moved to left wing and moving Nugent Hopkins down to 3C. The strength of this team is ability to move pieces around in game planning and tactically within games.

While ultimately Knoblauch moved Nugent Hopkins back this was a great game to trial, test and tinker with a fringe team on back end of a back-to-back and home ice control. Think we'll continue to see some of this work which is an area of strength usually for Knoblauch.

Some comments being made about this team's low hit total. I kinda think it's a bit product of their high puck control game but also some intentional management to balance energy reserves for the big goal of a long, hard playoff series push for Cup run.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

That's on management. Not the player.

Your trying to compare Fuhr to Skinner is one of the wildest things I've read lately. Fuhr was an otherworldly athletic, high pedigree elite talent in an era where goaltenders were more likely to be the worst athlete on their teams. He's one of the games best ever. Skinner was a winning window back-up plan who's trying to grow and develop and mature his game while running after a team that's been priming for a decade+ to reach this elite level. He's trying to onboard a moving bullet train.

For the record, I have family that attended Victoria Cougars camp with Fuhr and others than played senior baseball with Grant Fuhr the catcher. Everyone raved about his inherent athleticism and chill demeanour. Skinner plays in a modern era in which everyone can shoot and score with technically advanced sticks with marginal, innate athletic ability, and a team primed to chase a Cup. They share geography in where they were raised and that's it. But as incredible as Fuhr was he too could be prone to bad goals. But never gave up the final one and had the best team in NHL history to find the winning goal.

It's in Bowman's hands now (though with huge Jackson input) if this organization moves to reset its goaltending. I'll hold that strategic level of decision making ultimately accountable.

Grant Fuhr: 100 Greatest NHL Players | NHL.com

Goalie helped Oilers win five Stanley Cup championships, was first black player inducted into Hockey Hall of Fame

www.nhl.com

Skinner is the definition of trying to build an airplane while you fly it.

In that sense, if they are absolutely married to Skinner they should go and get one of the best airplane builders out there in Ian Clark, the guy has shown time and again he’s able to identify goalies he can elevate and he’s made a better goalie out of just about everyone he’s worked with. There were rumours earlier this year that he is unhappy in the Canucks organization and with the turmoil they are in maybe there’s an opportunity to steal him away. I honestly believe a 2nd/3rd round pick traded in exchange for him would be more impactful on the a Oilers goaltending situation likely both short and long term then trading for a goalie you’re basically rolling the dice on (if possible, not completely clear on rules of trading for coaches but I’m sure they could make some sort of agreement like pick traded for future consid. And Canucks release for him to join Oilers)

 

[KlefDown]

Is there any context behind why McDavid would tweet this?

 

[Drivesaitl]

That's on management. Not the player.

Your trying to compare Fuhr to Skinner is one of the wildest things I've read lately. Fuhr was an otherworldly athletic, high pedigree elite talent in an era where goaltenders were more likely to be the worst athlete on their teams. He's one of the games best ever. Skinner was a winning window back-up plan who's trying to grow and develop and mature his game while running after a team that's been priming for a decade+ to reach this elite level. He's trying to onboard a moving bullet train.

For the record, I have family that attended Victoria Cougars camp with Fuhr and others than played senior baseball with Grant Fuhr the catcher. Everyone raved about his inherent athleticism and chill demeanour. Skinner plays in a modern era in which everyone can shoot and score with technically advanced sticks with marginal, innate athletic ability, and a team primed to chase a Cup. They share geography in where they were raised and that's it. But as incredible as Fuhr was he too could be prone to bad goals. But never gave up the final one and had the best team in NHL history to find the winning goal.

It's in Bowman's hands now (though with huge Jackson input) if this organization moves to reset its goaltending. I'll hold that strategic level of decision making ultimately accountable.

Grant Fuhr: 100 Greatest NHL Players | NHL.com

Goalie helped Oilers win five Stanley Cup championships, was first black player inducted into Hockey Hall of Fame

www.nhl.com

Neither @iCanada or myself initiated Fuhr into the discussion. Was just responding to it. just saying

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I agree 100% to be clear - Skinner isn't Fuhr and the comparison stops at him being a local boy.

But he's talked about like he's Fuhr, and that's largely why I bring it up.

I don't see anyone ever talking about Skinner as a next Fuhr or mistaking him in any way, shape or form to one of the best ever. Skinner was a 3rd round pick that beat this organization's shitty draft history and poor strategic planning that recycled old goalies at the NHL level.

Skinner's crawled out of the primordial ooze of poor rebuild(s) organization to step into the hardest position in hockey when Holland bet his mad money on Campbell to drive the long awaited Cup window.

Accountability is squarely on management. Bowman is next up to make the decision on this critical position.

 

[bucks_oil]

I dunno. I'd like to see the context. It's pretty common for players to comment about the training gap they've experienced moving from junior age competition where they were likely dominant players with poor habits to highly competitive life as an adult professional player. No one is able to coast by on talent alone and training, conditioning, nutrition and every variable becomes important to battle to elevate into one of the precious few that ever make it to apex NHL level competition.

The Oilers hired one of the most touted mental strength coaches in the world off the basis of Jackson reading his book and feeling that even a team driven by McDavid and Draisaitl could gain more edge with this huge, unseen aspect of winning.

Skinner onboarded as pro after a largely successful junior career that included winning a WHL starting job very young and ending by being a critical piece to drive a WHL championship team. But as a young pro his eyes became open that raw ability would never be enough as he bounced between ECHL and AHL. He was projecting to be an NHL backup through this team's mature phase winning window until Campbell cratered like 30 games into his big money free agency bonanza.

The Oilers as a team is in its prime unfortunately with a developing stage goaltender who can slip with wild variance in his play. Skinner's working on all elements of his game, mentally; at the bio-mechanical level with Francillia's help recently added; training and conditioning (with eyes open from his early Bako days); and ongoing with technical approach. This is the hardest position in hockey under the most mental pressure to perform and for Oiler management, coaching and players they are fortunate Skinner didn't melt down like a candle. The unfortunate reality is they have a young goaltender with physical limitations and processing abilities and game that's a work in progress and prone to slip into some pretty wild fluctuations in play. Huge risk for a team ready to win it all and was 1 goal away in a Cup Championship Final Game 7.

I'd like to see a veteran quality 1A tandem upgrade that pushes Skinner into a 1B development role as originally planned.

Great post...

In short, you don't get perfection in any goalie, especially young ones that have traded on their size coupled with ~reasonable (context-specific) athleticism.

What's going (or not going) to set Skinner apart, like many goalies, is their mental game... and I mean that both in response to pressure AND tactically. So much of this is how you read plays... which can only come from experience unfortunately.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Skinner is the definition of trying to build an airplane while you fly it.

In that sense, if they are absolutely married to Skinner they should go and get one of the best airplane builders out there in Ian Clark, the guy has shown time and again he’s able to identify goalies he can elevate and he’s made a better goalie out of just about everyone he’s worked with. There were rumours earlier this year that he is unhappy in the Canucks organization and with the turmoil they are in maybe there’s an opportunity to steal him away. I honestly believe a 2nd/3rd round pick traded in exchange for him would be more impactful on the a Oilers goaltending situation likely both short and long term then trading for a goalie you’re basically rolling the dice on (if possible, not completely clear on rules of trading for coaches but I’m sure they could make some sort of agreement like pick traded for future consid. And Canucks release for him to join Oilers)

I've used that analogy also.

But I don't believe Skinner is a new goalie coach away from elevating the consistency of his game. Clarke is a great goalie coach who also has had a great pipeline of goaltenders to work with both in C-Bus and Vancouver. Helps to first have organizations that believe in the value of prospect goaltenders and invest draft collateral to select them (and better eyes historically to draft and develop them).

Much was made about Campbell having the organization bring in Manny Legace to Bakersfield to help reset his game. Some thinking that would be a magic bullet. The two had worked together that summer. Zero surprise that there was no miracle fix for nice guy Jack.

In Skinner's case, he is not a naturally gifted athlete which is severely limiting in this modern era game of speed and technology aided shooting in which everyone can snipe. He's a poor puck handler in part through slow processor (maybe experience but maybe innate) in reading the play and a weak puck handler physically so such a big guy. Full credit for the mental resilience of this player who has a lot of trust by his teammates, coaches and management. Skinner's work with Francillia at the bio-mechanical level to improve his efficiency of moment is critical. But his development phase as an NHL goaltending is predominantly about his limited natural abilities and flying the plane while trying to stabilize the elements of his game to backstop a Cup favourite.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Back to the game itself. I loved Knoblauch's chemistry experiment to refresh top line with Brown and Hyman moved to left wing and moving Nugent Hopkins down to 3C. The strength of this team is ability to move pieces around in game planning and tactically within games.

While ultimately Knoblauch moved Nugent Hopkins back this was a great game to trial, test and tinker with a fringe team on back end of a back-to-back and home ice control. Think we'll continue to see some of this work which is an area of strength usually for Knoblauch.

Some comments being made about this team's low hit total. I kinda think it's a bit product of their high puck control game but also some intentional management to balance energy reserves for the big goal of a long, hard playoff series push for Cup run.

I’m spamming you at this point but always enjoy discussions with you. It’s good to see knob trying different combinations, even if short lived, it’s about data collection in a real game setting. We’ve got a lot of versatility in the lineup which is a good thing but can also be bad as well because it can become a bit unfocused and too much trying this and that, in search of some mystical perfect line combinations. So I’m happy to see a willingness to try some different looks but with a measured approach. While we’ve seen this from a line combo/deployment pov they’ve also tried some different things tactics wise, in particular on the PP when it got really stale. Always nice to have some tape on different looks.

With regards to the not hitting enough thing, I think many fans around here have unrealistic expectations about the team. Seems like some guys want a top 3 defensive team that has 3 lines of 50pt+ scorers who are constantly laying the body but also always have the puck. The reality is that almost everything comes with some sort of give and take. If they are controlling the puck more well obviously not going to be running around piling up checks and if you commit yourself to being defensively responsible first, well that’s probably going to impact scoring a bit. Overall I love how this team has been playing since the beginning of November, they’ve really been very solid outside of a few wobbles.

 

[RegDunlop]

I agree 100% to be clear - Skinner isn't Fuhr and the comparison stops at him being a local boy.

But he's talked about like he's Fuhr, and that's largely why I bring it up.

My intentions as well.
Brought up only as reference to being a local product

 

[iCanada]

I don't see anyone ever talking about Skinner as a next Fuhr or mistaking him in any way, shape or form to one of the best ever. Skinner was a 3rd round pick that beat this organization's shitty draft history and poor strategic planning that recycled old goalies at the NHL level.

Skinner's crawled out of the primordial ooze of poor rebuild(s) organization to step into the hardest position in hockey when Holland bet his mad money on Campbell to drive the long awaited Cup window.

Accountability is squarely on management. Bowman is next up to make the decision on this critical position.

I think you see it frequently, to be honest, from fans, the organization, and media alike. Maybe not with the exact comparison, but certainly with the level of praise and accolade.

Everything he does is aligned as spectacular - every win is a result of "that man" Stuart Skinner, and when he should be maligned there is an endless parade of excuses as to why it wasn't his fault.

Skinner rarely gets so much as a "he'd like that one back" from our broadcasters for Christs sake.

 

[TheNumber4]

Back to the game itself. I loved Knoblauch's chemistry experiment to refresh top line with Brown and Hyman moved to left wing and moving Nugent Hopkins down to 3C. The strength of this team is ability to move pieces around in game planning and tactically within games.

While ultimately Knoblauch moved Nugent Hopkins back this was a great game to trial, test and tinker with a fringe team on back end of a back-to-back and home ice control. Think we'll continue to see some of this work which is an area of strength usually for Knoblauch.

Some comments being made about this team's low hit total. I kinda think it's a bit product of their high puck control game but also some intentional management to balance energy reserves for the big goal of a long, hard playoff series push for Cup run.

For sure it’s that. Vets on this team know they can get the W without running around risking injury and revenge. It’s also a function of our puck possession game as you’ve mentioned.

To add to that, Knob also had interesting comments about if you are hitting you are often putting your stick in the wrong position and passes have a better chance of going through you. Which makes sense cause if you are bracing your body to hit someone, your stick isn’t focused on cutting down lanes. So it may also be ingrained in our style of defence.

 

[TheNumber4]

I think you see it frequently, to be honest, from fans, the organization, and media alike. Maybe not with the exact comparison, but certainly with the level of praise and accolade.

Everything he does is aligned as spectacular - every win is a result of "that man" Stuart Skinner, and when he should be maligned there is an endless parade of excuses as to why it wasn't his fault.

Skinner rarely gets so much as a "he'd like that one back" from our broadcasters for Christs sake.

Goalies have always been credited for Ws though. The Wins column for a goalie is about as flawed as a stat +/-. Wins are obviously the result of everything that happened in the game and encompasses much more than what the goalies did or didn’t do. But just traditionally they make “wins” a goalie stat, and it’s spoken like that by media, even though it doesn’t make much sense.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I’m spamming you at this point but always enjoy discussions with you. It’s good to see knob trying different combinations, even if short lived, it’s about data collection in a real game setting. We’ve got a lot of versatility in the lineup which is a good thing but can also be bad as well because it can become a bit unfocused and too much trying this and that, in search of some mystical perfect line combinations. So I’m happy to see a willingness to try some different looks but with a measured approach. While we’ve seen this from a line combo/deployment pov they’ve also tried some different things tactics wise, in particular on the PP when it got really stale. Always nice to have some tape on different looks.

With regards to the not hitting enough thing, I think many fans around here have unrealistic expectations about the team. Seems like some guys want a top 3 defensive team that has 3 lines of 50pt+ scorers who are constantly laying the body but also always have the puck. The reality is that almost everything comes with some sort of give and take. If they are controlling the puck more well obviously not going to be running around piling up checks and if you commit yourself to being defensively responsible first, well that’s probably going to impact scoring a bit. Overall I love how this team has been playing since the beginning of November, they’ve really been very solid outside of a few wobbles.

Haha, enjoy our chats too.

Agree about Knoblauch, he's a data guy and it no double complements his gut with decision making. Definitely agree with you about the PP. It is stale and the league has adapted with often pressure deep to mitigate McDavid mach 4 zone entry; taking away time and space with Bouchard (arguably the second most important puck touch guy on the PP); and shutting down the long cross ice passing most notable to kill shot elite Draisaitl in his flank office.

This is an elite puck control team that heavily tilts zone time. So they won't be a high hitting team as they have the puck majority of the game. This team takes its cue from McDavid who is always fired out of a cannon to start games and in his tenacious play. He added a hard, physical hitting dimension to his game last season which is well off the pace this season. I fully believe this is a strategic intent to manage energy (and bumps and bruises) through one-off regular season play to have more in the tank having learned what is needed to win out a Game 7 Stanley Cup Championship scenario.

I think the challenge as Oiler fans is this team has shown wild variances each of the past three years which cost two coaches their jobs. Woodcroft was fired with shitty results but lots of promise of high x-team chances suggesting a regression to their high quality scoring and winning results was close at hand. The huge lows and wobbles leave many of us with ptsd type symptoms - at least in my case. haha

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think you see it frequently, to be honest, from fans, the organization, and media alike. Maybe not with the exact comparison, but certainly with the level of praise and accolade.

Everything he does is aligned as spectacular - every win is a result of "that man" Stuart Skinner, and when he should be maligned there is an endless parade of excuses as to why it wasn't his fault.

Skinner rarely gets so much as a "he'd like that one back" from our broadcasters for Christs sake.

I've never seen it. There's a ton of noise but the loudest is generally for the wobbles in his game. He can make spectacular gaffes and that often dominates the conversation. We're having this convo in a game thread in which the goalie's save% was .963.

He's not 'the man' on this team. That's McDavid and the organization has shovelled its money on forward depth; will need to upgrade this defense for a deep Cup run; and figure out their collective confidence with the imperfect development phase goaltender behind the talent and money on this roster. There's lots that bugs me about the Skinner persona but I try to step back from these prejudices to both critique and praise. But what I never do is let management off the hook for brutal decisions and choices that have this team running with a wildcard in net.