Post-Game Talk: YOLO and HNY HFOIL

[TheNumber4]

He's paid MORE than Logan Thompson who has a higher pedigree, much higher upside, drastically better fundamentals, and is rocking it in Washington. Sizzling stat line across the board and a sexy 15-2 record and earning it. Just as example.

I love goalies. But good goalies. Skinner is not that. he just frustrates with his inability and slacker attitude to getting better.

Cool. You picked out the one dude who’s having a good year and playing good. You could do that every season in the NHL and find that guy with HINDSIGHT, and after the fact. Last year it was Connor Ingram and he’s complete shit this year. You could also pick out a handful of goalies paid more than double Skinner who are having horrible seasons.

But cherry picking examples means f*** all really. When the discussion and truth is whether Stu is an average goalie paid an average salary. Which he is. Cherry picked outliers one way or the other doesn’t change that fact.

Where exactly do you get this idea that Skinner has a “slacker attitude” and doesn’t want to be better. Does hiring an elite offseason goaltending coach tell you that? Or are you doing the same personality reading you did when you predicted RNH was not resigning and would be a goner?

Below average goaltender.

Average to above according to the last 2 years of stats. And trending to be that again for the 3rd year in a row.

But we can say, paid below average though. As that has changed these last 3 years.

 

[MessierII]

Find it comical how everyone likes to point out how Skinner has a good game and solid stats for that said game.

We all know Skinner had potential and can be solid. The problem is consistency and it's a huge problem and unfortunately he is worse more then he is good. Which you can't continue to win a 7 game series with a streaky goalie over the long run which had been proven the past 2 seasons

I would argue at this point he’s been good more than he’s been bad and we’re not even at the halfway mark here.

 

[Zerotonine]

I would argue at this point he’s been good more than he’s been bad and we’re not even at the halfway mark here.

Then how is his goaltending stats the bottom of the league when are defensive stats are near the top? That's insane....

 

[TheNumber4]

He certainly has the stats of a below average goalie this year, but he is trending upwards. He had a horrible start once again this year, and same thing with the trending upwards. I give him some slack last year, as Campbell unexpectedly shit the bed, and Stu was thrust into the starter role. This year, and especially after the cup run, I thought he'd come in with a lot more confidence and try to have a really good year. But unfortunately, like the rest of the team, he came in with the crushing mental anchor of coming so close to hoisting the cup and having it snatched away, that it took a good month and a half to finally turn the corner. Still is way too inconsistent for my liking, and I am not crazy of his side to side mobility and losing sight of the puck at times, but there are things to like for sure. Hopefully he can continue to work on his weaknesses and try to even out his game more.

Agreed with everything you said. On your point about Stu coming into this year, I thought he’d hit a new level this year too and was disappointed. But with hindsight we can now see that Cup hangover had a huge effect on EVERYONE. Keep in mind these boards were like “wtf happened with McDavid? Is he cooked?” Well the answer is obviously no, but emotionally and mentally the team was drained after taking the biggest kick in the balls an NHL team could possibly take in this League. One goal away from a Cup only for the dream to be over. There was always going to be a down period after that, and I’m a bit disappointed in myself for not predicting it. Now that that lull period is over, things are looking good, we are primed again for another great shot at a Cup. And who knows, maybe another level in Stu’s game could still be a coming, a higher level of consistency. I take those chances over random $2M goalie with zero playoffs experience , that doesn’t know the team or how we play defence, which is about the only realistic options out there to replace Stu.

 

[TheNumber4]

Then how is his goaltending stats the bottom of the league when are defensive stats are near the top? That's insane....

Considering you think a goalie with a below 3 GAA NEVER keeps the goals below 3 for his team. Maybe it’s your reading of the stats, that’s the problem. Or an inability to understand the context of stats or trends in stats.

 

[MessierII]

Then how is his goaltending stats the bottom of the league when are defensive stats are near the top? That's insane....

The whole team had a trash start to the season himself included. In the past 13 starts he’s 9-3-1 with a .914

Even if you just go back to the start of November he’s 12-4-2 with a .906

He’s still not winning any veznas with those numbers but that’s fine he’s been solid. Everyone was garbage in October. Every single player top to bottom failed to meet their standards.

 

[TheNumber4]

The whole team had a trash start to the season himself included. In the past 13 starts he’s 9-3-1 with a .914

Even if you just go back to the start of November he’s 12-4-2 with a .906

He’s still not winning any veznas with those numbers but that’s fine he’s been solid. Everyone was garbage in October. Every single player top to bottom failed to meet their standards.

Truth. The reality is Stu has been solid for a long stretch now. And were winning games and once again a legit (and maybe best) Cup contender out there. If Stu stays at this level we have a good chance.

Just like last year when everyone belly ached about us having “no chance” in the playoffs with Stu in net. How did that prediction go for the doomers as they cried every step of the way towards a Game 7 SCF appearance. Utterly wrong through 4 series and 15 playoff wins.

Regarding his trash start too. -7 of his really bad GSAX to start the year came in two horrific games where Oilers defence was a complete clown show. Not to cherry pick stats, but take those performances out and he’s well above average for the entire year and not just this most recent long stretch.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Cool. You picked out the one dude who’s having a good year and playing good. You could do that every season in the NHL and find that guy with HINDSIGHT, and after the fact. Last year it was Connor Ingram and he’s complete shit this year. You could also pick out a handful of goalies paid more than double Skinner who are having horrible seasons.

But cherry picking examples means f*** all really. When the discussion and truth is whether Stu is an average goalie paid an average salary. Which he is. Cherry picked outliers one way or the other doesn’t change that fact.

Where exactly do you get this idea that Skinner has a “slacker attitude” and doesn’t want to be better. Does hiring an elite offseason goaltending coach tell you that? Or are you doing the same personality reading you did when you predicted RNH was not resigning and would be a goner?


Average to above according to the last 2 years of stats. And trending to be that again for the 3rd year in a row.

But we can say, paid below average though. As that has changed these last 3 years.

Its hardly hindsight for me to be saying Logan Thompson or Adin Hill were good goalies. I was saying that for years. You should look at goalie fundamentals, skillsets, flexibility, skills, not just the stats.

Slacker attitude? We've been through this many times. Skinner is the first to admit he never took training or conditioning seriously until recently. At same age I took physical fitness more seriously and I'm not a pro athlete nor was it my intent. Theres no inference involved in the slacker label. Skinner said this himself.

 

[TheNumber4]

Its hardly hindsight for me to be saying Logan Thompson or Adin Hill were good goalies. I was saying that for years. You should look at goalie fundamentals, skillsets, flexibility, skills, not just the stats.

Slacker attitude? We've been through this many times. Skinner is the first to admit he never took training or conditioning seriously until recently. At same age I took physical fitness more seriously and I'm not a pro athlete nor was it my intent. Theres no inference involved in the slacker label. Skinner said this himself.

What do you mean? The stats show they were decent to good goalies too. You could have literally picked out their hockey db pages and came to the same conclusion your eye test came to.

I’m gonna need receipts on that Skinner quote. Your interpretation of what was actually stated by Skinner may be skewed. And how long ago was this exactly? Like when he was starting in the AHL and still learning to be a pro? That happens to alot of players. We hear this from alot of rookies that interact with NHL elites for the first time too. The fact is we’ve seen skinner work with a mental coach and a movement coach, on top of continued work with Schwartz. That shows quite conclusively that he is trying to be better, does it not?

 

[iCanada]

The analytic guys love us, btw.

Those kind of cup odds at this point in the year are absolutely f***ing nutty. Never seen anything close to that.

 

[TheNumber4]

View attachment 954678

The analytic guys love us, btw.

Those kind of cup odds at this point in the year are absolutely f***ing nutty. Never seen anything close to that.

View attachment 954681

All 7 Vegas Oddsmakers have us as the Cup Favorite too:

NHL Futures: Stanley Cup Odds For 2025

See the latest NHL Futures & Stanley Cup Odds for 2024-25 season along with more NHL Betting Resources at VegasInsider.

www.vegasinsider.com

So does Dom’s Athletic Model:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5834883/2025/01/01/nhl-standings-playoffs-projections-odds/

But hey, maybe all these metrics and professional odds makers are just smoking good drugs and don’t realize we have Stu in net.

#BELIEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE

 

[Stoneman89]

Its hardly hindsight for me to be saying Logan Thompson or Adin Hill were good goalies. I was saying that for years. You should look at goalie fundamentals, skillsets, flexibility, skills, not just the stats.

Slacker attitude? We've been through this many times. Skinner is the first to admit he never took training or conditioning seriously until recently. At same age I took physical fitness more seriously and I'm not a pro athlete nor was it my intent. Theres no inference involved in the slacker label. Skinner said this himself.

Link please. Sounds like more of your throwing shit against the wall.

 

[RegDunlop]

I've never understood how Skinner became such a lightning rod.

Us old timers cheered for a wrong handed, small, non-white (not exactly common at the time) goaltender that many put in the highest echelon of players, in Grant Fuhr. Part of his charm was that he was a local talent from Spruce Grove. Like Messier from St. Albert, he was a hometown boy.

Stewart Skinner is the same. Grew up and worked his way up here. Got thrown into a position I and many believe he was not ready for. To me he has progressed nicely.

My point of view is that there are too many factors out of his control at the present time.
INCONSISTENCY A huge concern. Is this coaching? Technique? Psychological?
MENTORSHIP Has had no one to lean on rather than Pickard. CP is probably very good at role but has never been a true #1 so lacks that experience.
ANOINTMENT After a questionable 3/4 year as the #1, management deemed him far enough in his development to be the bona-fide starter going forward. Has that effected his mental thoughts / prep?

To me Skinner is a genuine slightly above average nhl starting tender with still a lot to room and time to grow. I for one am cheering hard for him.

The issue for me is the team is poised for the highest reward and the timing is not right to have a goalie at this stage of his career.
I still think Stu can do it, but I also blame management for a monumental fail to be in this position.

 

[iCanada]

I've never understood how Skinner became such a lightning rod.

Us old timers cheered for a wrong handed, small, non-white (not exactly common at the time) goaltender that many put in the highest echelon of players, in Grant Fuhr. Part of his charm was that he was a local talent from Spruce Grove. Like Messier from St. Albert, he was a hometown boy.

Stewart Skinner is the same. Grew up and worked his way up here. Got thrown into a position I and many believe he was not ready for. To me he has progressed nicely.

My point of view is that there are too many factors out of his control at the present time.
INCONSISTENCY A huge concern. Is this coaching? Technique? Psychological?
MENTORSHIP Has had no one to lean on rather than Pickard. CP is probably very good at role but has never been a true #1 so lacks that experience.
ANOINTMENT After a questionable 3/4 year as the #1, management deemed him far enough in his development to be the bona-fide starter going forward. Has that effected his mental thoughts / prep?

To me Skinner is a genuine slightly above average nhl starting tender with still a lot to room and time to grow. I for one am cheering hard for him.

The issue for me is the team is poised for the highest reward and the timing is not right to have a goalie at this stage of his career.
I still think Stu can do it, but I also blame management for a monumental fail to be in this position.

I think he's a lightning rod lately because the organization and people talk about him like he's Fuhr, when clearly he's not Fuhr.

Fuhr was a mental giant. Consistently rock solid in the playoffs. Fuhr basically became the go to guy despite not really having anyone else around - and the organization still went out and drafted Andy Moog and didn't bank on Fuhr being the guy.

Seemingly Skinner's got people convinced he's really good, when like, he's below average by every metric and the team is above average defensively by every metric. And the organization has basically no backup plan - which again - the Oilers in the 80s was a competition between the youngsters Fuhr and Moog. Yet we've annointed Skinner the one with no backup plan and him proving he's not great in the playoffs.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What do you mean? The stats show they were decent to good goalies too. You could have literally picked out their hockey db pages and came to the same conclusion your eye test came to.

I’m gonna need receipts on that Skinner quote. Your interpretation of what was actually stated by Skinner may be skewed. And how long ago was this exactly? Like when he was starting in the AHL and still learning to be a pro? That happens to alot of players. We hear this from alot of rookies that interact with NHL elites for the first time too. The fact is we’ve seen skinner work with a mental coach and a movement coach, on top of continued work with Schwartz. That shows quite conclusively that he is trying to be better, does it not?

The articles have been posted so many times here and multiple times by myself. We've had the convos before. Refresh your mind on it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think he's a lightning rod lately because the organization and people talk about him like he's Fuhr, when clearly he's not Fuhr.

Fuhr was a mental giant. Consistently rock solid in the playoffs. Fuhr basically became the go to guy despite not really having anyone else around - and the organization still went out and drafted Andy Moog and didn't bank on Fuhr being the guy.

Seemingly Skinner's got people convinced he's really good, when like, he's below average by every metric and the team is above average defensively by every metric. And the organization has basically no backup plan - which again - the Oilers in the 80s was a competition between the youngsters Fuhr and Moog. Yet we've annointed Skinner the one with no backup plan and him proving he's not great in the playoffs.

Indeed. I can't see anything similar between the two. With respect Fuhr was actually athletic, flexible, a cat, could make lightning reflex saves, was a very good skater, could move quick all over, had excellent get up and down ability. Could do splits, was strong, could kick out his pad in an instant. I don't see ANY similarity between the two. Fuhr took his craft seriously and trained specifically for it. A Fuhr warmup was nothing like a Skinner warmup.

Skinner can't even do standing edgework before game. He often falls over or loses his balance. So obvious he hardly even practices basics to the degree of proficiency. Watch any starter in the league warm up, work on their edges, work on their flexes. Then see stu like he's pretending to do something or rocking posts.

Yeah. the org seem to think they have something in Skinner and I can just see an overpay because they feel we gotta keep him. I dunno what it is. Does the org actually watch other goalies in the league? heh

 

[Drivesaitl]

I've never understood how Skinner became such a lightning rod.

Us old timers cheered for a wrong handed, small, non-white (not exactly common at the time) goaltender that many put in the highest echelon of players, in Grant Fuhr. Part of his charm was that he was a local talent from Spruce Grove. Like Messier from St. Albert, he was a hometown boy.

Stewart Skinner is the same. Grew up and worked his way up here. Got thrown into a position I and many believe he was not ready for. To me he has progressed nicely.

My point of view is that there are too many factors out of his control at the present time.
INCONSISTENCY A huge concern. Is this coaching? Technique? Psychological?
MENTORSHIP Has had no one to lean on rather than Pickard. CP is probably very good at role but has never been a true #1 so lacks that experience.
ANOINTMENT After a questionable 3/4 year as the #1, management deemed him far enough in his development to be the bona-fide starter going forward. Has that effected his mental thoughts / prep?

To me Skinner is a genuine slightly above average nhl starting tender with still a lot to room and time to grow. I for one am cheering hard for him.

The issue for me is the team is poised for the highest reward and the timing is not right to have a goalie at this stage of his career.
I still think Stu can do it, but I also blame management for a monumental fail to be in this position.

Fuhr was liked because of his skills and proficiency on ice and his cool at not being rattled. He was one of the quickest reflex goalies in the game. Supremely athletic, flexible, strong, lightning quick. he was smaller, but made up for it in his cat like reflex. He was a feared goalie because of the respected goalie skill of robbing and taking goals right off the board with his own excellence. Fuhr and Moog, with the way the Oilers played in front of them were often left to mercy of having to make huge stops on breakaways, 2 on 1's and lots of times in games. The game was much more open then as you know and Skinner wouldn't survive in that environment. Skinner gets solved a lot on HDSC and especially anything moving across. Conversely Fuhr was gold getting across.

Games were much different back then. In 80's goalies that could make highway robbery reaction stops were treasured. They were taking labeled shots even on pass across and snuffing out goals. Todays game is much more structured, goalies much more into block form, and teams much more into limiting HDSC or difficult situtions and the Oilers are around best in league at limiting difficulty of chances. Under KK our active sticks, blocking shots, covering ice is off the charts. I've never seen an Oilers team play such positionally sound hockey as we have under KK and Coffey.

 

[TheNumber4]

The articles have been posted so many times here and multiple times by myself. We've had the convos before. Refresh your mind on it.

They have? Maybe they’ve been posted but I still don’t buy your interpretation of it which will be biased towards the negative no matter what you read about Stu. If it was a thing, I feel like I would have remembered.

 

[RegDunlop]

I think he's a lightning rod lately because the organization and people talk about him like he's Fuhr, when clearly he's not Fuhr.

Fuhr was a mental giant. Consistently rock solid in the playoffs. Fuhr basically became the go to guy despite not really having anyone else around - and the organization still went out and drafted Andy Moog and didn't bank on Fuhr being the guy.

Seemingly Skinner's got people convinced he's really good, when like, he's below average by every metric and the team is above average defensively by every metric. And the organization has basically no backup plan - which again - the Oilers in the 80s was a competition between the youngsters Fuhr and Moog. Yet we've annointed Skinner the one with no backup plan and him proving he's not great in the playoffs.

Cannot disagree!

 

[TheNumber4]

I think he's a lightning rod lately because the organization and people talk about him like he's Fuhr, when clearly he's not Fuhr.

Fuhr was a mental giant. Consistently rock solid in the playoffs. Fuhr basically became the go to guy despite not really having anyone else around - and the organization still went out and drafted Andy Moog and didn't bank on Fuhr being the guy.

Seemingly Skinner's got people convinced he's really good, when like, he's below average by every metric and the team is above average defensively by every metric. And the organization has basically no backup plan - which again - the Oilers in the 80s was a competition between the youngsters Fuhr and Moog. Yet we've annointed Skinner the one with no backup plan and him proving he's not great in the playoffs.

People talked about him being Fuhr-like for that streak where Stu beat Fuhr’s record. That’s all that was.

And while Fuhr was a clutch goalie for the Oilers, didn’t he not become best goalie in the world territory till his like 4 or 5th playoff run?

And wasn’t his early reputation for the most part, “just one save better than the other guy” rather than best goalie league wide?

Obviously you can’t say Stu is Fuhr, an all time great, but he still bested by stats, 3 out of 4 goalies he went head to head against in the playoffs. That’s giving his team a chance to win. Which is one reason we beat Oettinger/Stars, Kings, and was 1 goal/save away from doing the same to Bob.

In any case, Stu’s stats actually have him above average for the last 2 years. And below average to start this year and now trending to average. Pretty sure most have him rated objectively as average.

Whereas the Stu haters, have him rated as worst goalie in the League territory. Also a biased perception except in the opposite direction.

 

[RegDunlop]

Fuhr was liked because of his skills and proficiency on ice and his cool at not being rattled. He was one of the quickest reflex goalies in the game. Supremely athletic, flexible, strong, lightning quick. he was smaller, but made up for it in his cat like reflex. He was a feared goalie because of the respected goalie skill of robbing and taking goals right off the board with his own excellence. Fuhr and Moog, with the way the Oilers played in front of them were often left to mercy of having to make huge stops on breakaways, 2 on 1's and lots of times in games. The game was much more open then as you know and Skinner wouldn't survive in that environment. Skinner gets solved a lot on HDSC and especially anything moving across. Conversely Fuhr was gold getting across.

Games were much different back then. In 80's goalies that could make highway robbery reaction stops were treasured. They were taking labeled shots even on pass across and snuffing out goals. Todays game is much more structured, goalies much more into block form, and teams much more into limiting HDSC or difficult situtions and the Oilers are around best in league at limiting difficulty of chances. Under KK our active sticks, blocking shots, covering ice is off the charts. I've never seen an Oilers team play such positionally sound hockey as we have under KK and Coffey.

Again...
Cannot disagree!

 

[Drivesaitl]

They have? Maybe they’ve been posted but I still don’t buy your interpretation of it which will be biased towards the negative no matter what you read about Stu. If it was a thing, I feel like I would have remembered.

Heres how it goes. I'd post you the same link myself and others have cited several times in the past. You'll say that the link in no way justifies the concern, even though Skinner himself lays it out clearly he was never serious about training or working out. Then we'll argue back and forth instead of me getting some other stuff done. heh. I'll let others link it this time if they want. Everybody has seen the articles.

 

[TheNumber4]

Heres how it goes. I'd post you the same link I've cited several times in the past. You'll say that the link in no way justifies the concern, even though Skinner himself lays it out clearly he was never serious about training. Then we'll argue back and forth instead of me getting some other stuff done. heh. I'll let others link it this time if they want. Everybody has seen the articles.

I’d love to see the specific article. Cause I’m almost certain you are turning a story about a “rookie sees pro players and learns to be a pro” (which almost every rookie cites when entering the league) into Skinner is a “fat lazy slob that doesn’t care about training at all” instead.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I’d love to see the specific article. Cause I’m almost certain you are turning a story about a “rookie sees pro players and learns to be a pro” into Skinner be a fat lazy slob instead.

You've seen the article several times. We've discussed it. Thanks for confirming your reaction.

Have a good day.

 

[TheNumber4]

You've seen the article several times. We've discussed it. Thanks for confirming your reaction.

Have a good day.

I’ve seen plenty of articles, yes. Not any ones that should create a never dying narrative that he doesn’t want to be better at his craft to this day, and not one that disputes the fact that he’s hired extra goalie coaches on route to getting better at his craft.