Yeah Sullivan Sucks, but Dubas needs to be talked about too...

[Gurglesons]

oh that’s pretty much what i’m saying. i would have been full throatedly supporting jr shuffling the deck every month into 2026. and he didn’t get fired. he quit. the core was strong and couldn’t lose more than a certain amount of games, as a law of physics

Dubas had the opportunity to make some big ass moves the year he was hired.

He had a 1st in an insanely deep draft.

He had tons of cap space and he had a solid enough group to build around.

I'll never not be insanely disappointed in that summer.

That 1st should've been leveraged for a 23-25 year old player with huge upside to fill out our top six with Zucker moving on.

That cap space should've been leveraged for solid young pieces not the Eller, Acciari, Nieto contracts.

And Graves and Jarry was just a total joke.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Dubas had the opportunity to make some big ass moves the year he was hired.

He had a 1st in an insanely deep draft.

He had tons of cap space and he had a solid enough group to build around.

I'll never not be insanely disappointed in that summer.

That 1st should've been leveraged for a 23-25 year old player with huge upside to fill out our top six with Zucker moving on.

That cap space should've been leveraged for solid young pieces not the Eller, Acciari, Nieto contracts.

And Graves and Jarry was just a total joke.

On top of the whole Sullivan thing... this team not learning it's lesson re: the top six after Kessel put them over the top is so, so disappointing.

They tried to try-hard, jack-of-all-trades their way to a competent top six and it predictably failed and now that Sid and Geno are old and mostly past it it looks even worse. Wonder who the driving force behind that philosophy was?

 

[Gurglesons]

On top of the whole Sullivan thing... this team not learning it's lesson re: the top six after Kessel put them over the top is so, so disappointing.

They tried to try-hard, jack-of-all-trades their way to a competent top six and it predictably failed. Wonder who the driving force behind that philosophy was?

They've also removed all emotion from the roster.

I hated the Tanev contract, but at least he was like exciting.

Who on this roster is going to will this team to a win at this point?

Per/60 god Michael Bunting?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They've also removed all emotion from the roster.

I hated the Tanev contract, but at least he was like exciting.

Who on this roster is going to will this team to a win at this point?

Per/60 god Michael Bunting?

Isn't that supposed to be a big part of the responsibilities of the so-called "top five" coach?

But I keep forgetting he's somehow simultaneously not at fault for anything but also the only reason they've ever won anything.

 

[Gurglesons]

Isn't that supposed to be a big part of the responsibilities of the so-called "top five" coach?

But I keep forgetting he's somehow simultaneously not at fault for anything but also the only reason they've ever won anything.

Same with Dubas. We need to give him time because Mike Sullivan is to blame for everything along with Ron Hextall.

Reality is Dubas had the worst situation any NHL GM has ever had. That's why Calgary is currently 2nd in the Pacific.

 

[Darren McCord]

We got a 21 year old top 20 1st round pick and a 3rd for Marino.

McCann was replaced with Evan Rodrigues who just won a cup.

None of these players had value. Dubas literally gave away McCann for nothing after paying for him.

Penguins fans are silly if they think any of those pieces would have added assets. Marino just got moved for 2 2nds.

All of those players are nothing burgers.

If you want to be critical of Hextall for asset management, the real flaws were not moving Rust and especially Zucker for returns.

Ty Smith wasnt what this team needed and is on his way out of the NHL. That was bad scouting.
2 2nds from a mid team like Utah is better than a jerseys 3rd.

The whole point is he started aging this roster fast. Like you said he really did nothing which was a huge problem.

Hextall blew it. Now Dubas is.

They both suck and I do not get the need to defend either. Just trash them both like everyone else lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Ty Smith wasnt what this team needed and is on his way out of the NHL. That was bad scouting.
2 2nds from a mid team like Utah is better than a jerseys 3rd.

The whole point is he started aging this roster fast. Like you said he really did nothing which was a huge problem.

Hextall blew it. Now Dubas is.

They both suck and I do not get the need to defend either. Just trash them both like everyone else lol

Or you need to understand players that are on here just don’t have real value like you think.

Marino got Utah’s 49th overall pick and Edmonton’s 2nd for Marino and a 5th. It’s pretty much equal value.

Pettersson is going to return a similar package of shit. These players don’t have value. McCann, Matheson etc.

 

[Darren McCord]

Or you need to understand players that are on here just don’t have real value like you think.

Marino got Utah’s 49th overall pick and Edmonton’s 2nd for Marino and a 5th. It’s pretty much equal value.

Pettersson is going to return a similar package of shit. These players don’t have value. McCann, Matheson etc.

Either way man I dont get your need to defend hextall. Like both him and dubas have been trash along with magic mike.

Like you said above this team gutted any heart and that started with Hextall as well.

 

[Gurglesons]

Either way man I dont get your need to defend hextall. Like both him and dubas have been trash along with magic mike.

Like you said above this team gutted any heart and that started with Hextall as well.

I don’t see how I am defending Hextall?

I was critical of a ton of his moves and wanted him fired.

Matheson, McCann and Marino are not who you judge Hextall on though. Those players largely were meh as hell here outside of 3-6 month samples.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don’t see how I am defending Hextall?

I was critical of a ton of his moves and wanted him fired.

Matheson, McCann and Marino are not who you judge Hextall on though. Those players largely were meh as hell here outside of 3-6 month samples.

Dude I know Granlund's daily stats because you do not stop bringing him up.

You also say Hextall has nothing to do with this roster yet complained that they got rid of all the players with heart like Tanev.

Hextall literally got rid of Tanev and brought in McGinn who was lifeless. I would argue Matheson also played with heart and an edge. He was also moved for the lifeless petry.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dude I know Granlund's daily stats because you do not stop bringing him up.

You also say Hextall has nothing to do with this roster yet complained that they got rid of all the players with heart like Tanev.

Hextall literally got rid of Tanev and brought in McGinn who was lifeless. I would argue Matheson also played with heart and an edge. He was also moved for the lifeless petry.

I was fine with moving on from Tanev.

Granlund was a bad trade for the Penguins.

McGinn scored 10 or more goals in both his seasons here. People act like Pulju is this amazing unlocked top six winger and he's on pace for 12 here.

This is the funny part. People act like our bottom six was so great since Hextall took over and the fact is it has produced nearly identical regardless of the players. That's what people don't get.

 

[Darren McCord]

I was fine with moving on from Tanev.

Granlund was a bad trade for the Penguins.

McGinn scored 10 or more goals in both his seasons here. People act like Pulju is this amazing unlocked top six winger and he's on pace for 12 here.

This is the funny part. People act like our bottom six was so great since Hextall took over and the fact is it has produced nearly identical regardless of the players. That's what people don't get.

People are dumb. But the bottoms six has been trash for a long time. Even when it produces it lets in an equal amount of goals. It has lack any excitement since Rust got moved up and honestly since Kunitz and Cullen left. It's been on rotate vanilla players in miscast roles thanks to sullivan.

Pulju only looks good at all because the rest sucks. Pulju should be a 4th line RW. The line of Poulin - DOC - Pulju is a 4th line on a good but not great team.

 

[BobCole]

I mean, at this point, it's clear to anybody who's watched this team since the beginning of last season (and arguably long before then) that the team needs a new voice behind the bench.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So remember how we weren’t allowed to comment on Dubas because Hextall or something. Is it time to comment on him now?

 

[metalan2]

Yeah, because he's their best forward.

Now granted. We can use the same argument of that's why we should've kept Granlund, because he'd be our best forward too.

But, like.. I just don't get the butt huffing about McCann.

Not the same situation at all, not even close.

McCann had our power play as tops in the league.

In his last year he was nearly a point per game, even with Sullivan trying his crap.

His progression to what he is now wasn't sudden, it was expected and would have continued on the Penguins.

There's a great chance he's a really would have scored more in those years after.

The butt huffing is the Penguins lost what would be a our second or third best forward and a legitimate power play player for Mike Sullivan 50 year olds.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not the same situation at all, not even close.

McCann had our power play as tops in the league.

In his last year he was nearly a point per game, even with Sullivan trying his crap.

His progression to what he is now wasn't sudden, it was expected and would have continued on the Penguins.

There's a great chance he's a really would have scored more in those years after.

The butt huffing is the Penguins lost what would be a our second or third best forward and a legitimate power play player for Mike Sullivan 50 year olds.

32 points in 42 games is "near point per game"? 62 points per 82 is "near point per game"?

He was Rakell?

 

[metalan2]

32 points in 42 games is "near point per game"? 62 points per 82 is "near point per game"?

He was Rakell?

He was what 23 at the time and improving our on ice play considerably, as stated, we had our best power play in a decade with him out there.

You're comparing him to dudes a decade older who have hit their ceiling. Rakell is also one of our to forwards. Should we just say another Rakell over Bunting wouldn't help this team?

And yes 32 in 42 is near a point per game. I didn't say he was, but I do believe he would have gotten close.

I don't care how bad of a team you are a 40 goal scorer in the NHL isn't a nothing burger, especially when he's scoring 30 every year outside of that.

Your argument "well he's on a bad team" holds no water because production normally suffers on bad teams. He would likely produce more on a good team.

It was absurd at the time to get rid of him and even more so now.

Granlun has always produced besides when he was playing defense for the Penguins and used absurdly wrong.

Not comparable.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If player A is a completely useless tool with team A, then suddenly turns his career right around when traded to team B, and if player B is a 100-point scorer with team B and suddenly becomes just another struggling player on team A, is the GM to blame for including player A in a trade for player B? What is the common denominator? Coaching.

If you suddenly bring Granlund back in a trade, do you think he will play better than the first time around? Sullivan's system is one where MANY players struggle within it. I would suggest European players have an especially difficult transition, but not exclusively Euros. Derick Brassard, Tanner Pearson...the list is lengthy.

I am not here to defend Dubas because some of his decisions are indefensible. But a coaching change would also change the narrative on some of these players. And if we fired Dubas tomorrow and hired someone else, would things get better? I mean, whoever holds down that job has to be in step with the head coach, right? Or do we want someone who completely ignores Sullivan and does what is best for the team only? Because that person is never getting hired by FSG. Not now anyway, not with Sullivan in charge.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Yup

I'm beginning to think that Sullivan isn't the problem.. Well I mean, hell, he's a problem... But Anyway, I'm beginning to think that he's a symptom

The problem is FSG. Nothing will get better with these f***ers.

All my teams owners f***ing suck.

A's.. John Fisher
Pirates... Bob Nutting
Penguins... FSG
Steelers.... Rooney (except, they somehow win a bit)

They all suck

If FSG was just a tiny fraction as brutal as advertised... We would have changes happening. FSG is just like those owners I listed... They're making money, so, are content with not caring about the franchise and what it means historically.

As long as FSG is at the helm, this team will be a motherf***er to root for

 

[Gurglesons]

He was what 23 at the time and improving our on ice play considerably, as stated, we had our best power play in a decade with him out there.

You're comparing him to dudes a decade older who have hit their ceiling. Rakell is also one of our to forwards. Should we just say another Rakell over Bunting wouldn't help this team?

And yes 32 in 42 is near a point per game. I didn't say he was, but I do believe he would have gotten close.

I don't care how bad of a team you are a 40 goal scorer in the NHL isn't a nothing burger, especially when he's scoring 30 every year outside of that.

Your argument "well he's on a bad team" holds no water because production normally suffers on bad teams. He would likely produce more on a good team.

It was absurd at the time to get rid of him and even more so now.

Granlun has always produced besides when he was playing defense for the Penguins and used absurdly wrong.

Not comparable.

No we didn't. 17-18 and 18-19 PP out produced the 20-21.

 

[Jacob]

McCann was a whiff. Guy was exactly the kind of player we should’ve been acquiring more of.

 

[Jacob]

Another outside-the-box coaching candidate I’d throw out there is Tuomo Ruutu. Frankly I don’t know what his responsibilities are in Florida, and they seem kind of minimal, but he seems like a guy like Brind-Amour that might just kinda have “it” and doesn’t really need a long coaching resume. Players know him and would buy in because he can back it up with the way he himself played. A decent tank commander if nothing else.